2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Corey Pronman did a full mock draft, all 7 rounds. This is who he has Calgary taking.

 

16. Colby Barlow LW

48. Juraj Pekarcik LW

112. Noel Nordh LW

176. Ryan Koering D

208. Rodwin Dionicio D

 

He knows the Flames very well.

[zima]

The kid sounds promising but is he a top 16 player?

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Corey Pronman did a full mock draft, all 7 rounds. This is who he has Calgary taking.

 

16. Colby Barlow LW

48. Juraj Pekarcik LW

112. Noel Nordh LW

176. Ryan Koering D

208. Rodwin Dionicio D

 

On the surface. I don't have a problem with the 16th pick.

Dionico seems a bit low rated, considering his output so far.

 

[zima]

From what I have seen on Colby I don't see a problem Im sure skating can be fixed with the right teachers correct I got my son speed skating teacher seemed to make a huge difference for him

[The_People1]

On 6/19/2023 at 2:25 PM, conundrumed said:

Musty's frame is broad. He can easily carry another 20lbs. Plus he has better hands and handles the puck well. Pro-rated over a full season is the top point-getter in the O for draftees. Not quite sure what they're missing. Simashev at 31 is fine if only Reinbacher is in the top 30. Zero chance Willander will be better, and I like Willander. But Musty at 47 is outrageous when he has the potential to be better than Leonard. Swapping roster spots would make it obvious.

Could Perrault and Leonard have separately thrown up 100pts in the O? I have my doubts. It's a league full of drafted 18-20yos and you're not on an allstar team in comparison to your competition.

 

Is Tyler Bertuzzi a good comparable to Musty?

[conundrumed]

28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is Tyler Bertuzzi a good comparable to Musty?

Nope. Bertuzzi is more of a determined grinder. Musty is a playmaker and can drive and create plays. Where Bert's g/a ratio is always about even (30-30ish), Musty is about 1-2 (30-60) because he's much smoother and a very good passer.

Pretty much the difference between the brute athlete vs the finesse athlete. When Musty's at his best, he'd be more like Larkin player-wise.

Positionally, Bertuzzi has better awareness of where he needs to be all of the time, but that's experience. Musty should be better than Bertuzzi, honestly. Broader range of talents and a lot better with the puck on his stick whether skating, creating or distributing. Hard, accurate shot too, so that's likely even. Bert's better at cleaning up the garbage, many of his goals are in close.

[The_People1]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Nope. Bertuzzi is more of a determined grinder. Musty is a playmaker and can drive and create plays. Where Bert's g/a ratio is always about even (30-30ish), Musty is about 1-2 (30-60) because he's much smoother and a very good passer.

Pretty much the difference between the brute athlete vs the finesse athlete. When Musty's at his best, he'd be more like Larkin player-wise.

Positionally, Bertuzzi has better awareness of where he needs to be all of the time, but that's experience. Musty should be better than Bertuzzi, honestly. Broader range of talents and a lot better with the puck on his stick whether skating, creating or distributing. Hard, accurate shot too, so that's likely even. Bert's better at cleaning up the garbage, many of his goals are in close.

 

Is Musty the next Corey Perry?

[zima]

29 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is Musty the next Corey Perry?

Where do you see Colby?

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is Musty the next Corey Perry?

The comparisons I’m seeing reading are anywhere from Robertson to Killorn to Vanek.

SMAHT does pretty balanced scouting reports. Just bare in mind it’s a bit dated. Musty was improving on some of the criticisms here but there’s still work and time. He recognizes what to improve is the main thing.

https://smahtscouting.com/2023/03/28/scouting-report-quentin-musty/amp/

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Corey Pronman did a full mock draft, all 7 rounds. This is who he has Calgary taking.

 

16. Colby Barlow LW

48. Juraj Pekarcik LW

112. Noel Nordh LW

176. Ryan Koering D

208. Rodwin Dionicio D

For the bolded. Here we are again with basing ranking off of 1 U18 tournament. This player in the 2nd rd would choke me. At 112 I'd call him a decent pick. Passing on any of Allen, Ciernik, Stramel, Strbak, Cagnoni, Pinelli, Kantserov, Nelson, Bertucci, Rehkopf, McCarthy, Mania...there are likely 30 players I would rather take that are playing in leagues well above Slovakia U20. Particularly Strbak, Allen, Bertucci, McCarhy. If we take a fwd in the 1st, take a solid D in the 2nd. Pretty much in that order.

Pekarcik is a huge leap of faith in the 2nd. "One of the youngest players in the draft" is a crock for an argument. That birth date rule applies nowhere but the NHL draft, nowhere. No point in pretending that it's correct or viable. It's actually pretty insulting.

To put it in perspective, I'm a late birthday. I was the starting goalie in my 1st year Midget. I was groomed for it in Bantam. I'd have been forced to stay in Bantam. In basketball, I was the starting Sr forward in Grade 11. I averaged 27pts/gm and we were the SW Ont Champs and fell(again) to Lennox Lewis' Kitchener team in the semi's of the Ontario finals. The NHL would have kept me in jr.

That magical cutoff is downright offensive when it has never applied in life. So "youngest player in the draft" means absolutely zero. What, you'll be better than where you were selected in 90 days? Give me a break. Have most of these writers even played competitive sports? Why the hyperbole of this ridiculous rule rather than grinding on it like it deserves to be?

Applying that anywhere else would ruin many a kid. "Yeah, I get that you're better than most of your friends and like them you're in Grade 11, but you were born in October so you have to play with the Grade 10s".

It's pathetic.

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

For the bolded. Here we are again with basing ranking off of 1 U18 tournament. This player in the 2nd rd would choke me. At 112 I'd call him a decent pick. Passing on any of Allen, Ciernik, Stramel, Strbak, Cagnoni, Pinelli, Kantserov, Nelson, Bertucci, Rehkopf, McCarthy, Mania...there are likely 30 players I would rather take that are playing in leagues well above Slovakia U20. Particularly Strbak, Allen, Bertucci, McCarhy. If we take a fwd in the 1st, take a solid D in the 2nd. Pretty much in that order.

Pekarcik is a huge leap of faith in the 2nd. "One of the youngest players in the draft" is a crock for an argument. That birth date rule applies nowhere but the NHL draft, nowhere. No point in pretending that it's correct or viable. It's actually pretty insulting.

To put it in perspective, I'm a late birthday. I was the starting goalie in my 1st year Midget. I was groomed for it in Bantam. I'd have been forced to stay in Bantam. In basketball, I was the starting Sr forward in Grade 11. I averaged 27pts/gm and we were the SW Ont Champs and fell(again) to Lennox Lewis' Kitchener team in the semi's of the Ontario finals. The NHL would have kept me in jr.

That magical cutoff is downright offensive when it has never applied in life. So "youngest player in the draft" means absolutely zero. What, you'll be better than where you were selected in 90 days? Give me a break. Have most of these writers even played competitive sports? Why the hyperbole of this ridiculous rule rather than grinding on it like it deserves to be?

Applying that anywhere else would ruin many a kid. "Yeah, I get that you're better than most of your friends and like them you're in Grade 11, but you were born in October so you have to play with the Grade 10s".

It's pathetic.

 

I hate it when they base it entirely on the U18.

 

That's why I base it entirely on stats without any other considerations or thoughts.

 

 

Speaking of which...

 

What's up with this guy?

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/719007/jayden-oke

[conundrumed]

MacKenzie out with his final list. Don't like TSN's site, particularly for phones, but TSN is his employer...

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/intrigue-and-excitement-in-the-year-of-connor-bedard-at-the-nhl-draft-1.1976262

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

MacKenzie out with his final list. Don't like TSN's site, particularly for phones, but TSN is his employer...

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/intrigue-and-excitement-in-the-year-of-connor-bedard-at-the-nhl-draft-1.1976262

 

Perfect.  We get Danielson.  The guy we wanted from the very beginning.

[conundrumed]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Perfect.  We get Danielson.  The guy we wanted from the very beginning.

Not sure about the we part.

I can't believe how high But is getting ranked. I'm going to say as many as 10 1st rd picks may not work out. I hope we hit a home run!!

[sak22]

16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Perfect.  We get Danielson.  The guy we wanted from the very beginning.

Not true, this is Bob McKenzies ranking, it has no bearing on the actual draft that will happen next week 😜

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

Not true, this is Bob McKenzies ranking, it has no bearing on the actual draft that will happen next week 😜

 

It's going to be fun.  Flames are in a good spot at 16.  This draft is deep enough that we will get someone good at 16.

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's going to be fun.  Flames are in a good spot at 16.  This draft is deep enough that we will get someone good at 16.

Might be deep enough that there will be quality at 48 as well.  Been a long time since I've been as excited about a draft as this year.

[The_People1]

Just now, sak22 said:

Might be deep enough that there will be quality at 48 as well.  Been a long time since I've been as excited about a draft as this year.

 

There are almost too many good choices at 16... Unlike other years where we pray our guy drops to us and if not, then just trade down.  I'm hoping we can move Hanifin for one more pick in the first round.

[sagacity7]

What do you all think about Lukas Dragicevic? Seems like a dark horse but what an exciting young player! If we got a lower first rounder in a trade for an outgoing player I feel he would be an interesting pick up.

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

There are almost too many good choices at 16... Unlike other years where we pray our guy drops to us and if not, then just trade down.  I'm hoping we can move Hanifin for one more pick in the first round.

 

 The good news is I don't see how we come out of all this with just one 1st rounder.   Toffoli is finally in the trade rumors apparently not looking to re-sign.

 

Could be a very good year to have the enter 1st round well scouted.  One reason I wanna wait till D day before putting out my list

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, sagacity7 said:

What do you all think about Lukas Dragicevic? Seems like a dark horse but what an exciting young player! If we got a lower first rounder in a trade for an outgoing player I feel he would be an interesting pick up.

 

I do not understand how he is rated so low.  I've brought him up before as well.  A big talented rhs d that can skate.

 

He needs work on his defensive side.  Very much a young Hanifin lol.

 

I have a different perspective on these guys.  Talented D who can skate but can't defend.    You can teach defence much more successfully than you can teach elite skating.

 

We need a new Mitch Love.   But, presumably we can teach a kid like this the parts that are missing.    If not, then easy.  Trade him.

 

He's a steal where he's ranked imho

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, sagacity7 said:

What do you all think about Lukas Dragicevic? Seems like a dark horse but what an exciting young player! If we got a lower first rounder in a trade for an outgoing player I feel he would be an interesting pick up.

He's an offensive Dman, so if you're okay with a dman that can't defend, he's your guy. My interest level is virtually zero.

I would take many defenders before him. Generally, when you turn pro and teams bottle-up/minimize your offensive attributes, you really need to be solid in your own end. He is currently a very long way from that. I wouldn't even take him at 48 personally.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

He's an offensive Dman, so if you're okay with a dman that can't defend, he's your guy. My interest level is virtually zero.

I would take many defenders before him. Generally, when you turn pro and teams bottle-up/minimize your offensive attributes, you really need to be solid in your own end. He is currently a very long way from that. I wouldn't even take him at 48 personally.

 

You say that but you defend Hamonic.   It might be just me but I see Hamonic as having this issue at least into his early 20s if not  now.  Al McInnis took years to learn, but did.   Brodie,  my lord.  But he got there. Hamilton too.  And that's just Flames players.   Roman Josi was useless defensively and became good at it.

 

 

You've made a few comments in here suggesting that learning defence is a near impossible thing but gambling on a poor skater to become an elite nhler is totally worth it.

 

In my mind if you draft a poor skater and they don't improve their skating, their value usually goes to zero.   If you draft an offensive D and their defense doesn't improve, you can trade them.   We've acquired a few of these as an example,  at high cost.

 

What's your reasoning there?  How do you determine that the defence wart is not as curable as the skating wart?

[sagacity7]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I do not understand how he is rated so low.  I've brought him up before as well.  A big talented rhs d that can skate.

 

He needs work on his defensive side.  Very much a young Hanifin lol.

 

I have a different perspective on these guys.  Talented D who can skate but can't defend.    You can teach defence much more successfully than you can teach elite skating.

 

We need a new Mitch Love.   But, presumably we can teach a kid like this the parts that are missing.    If not, then easy.  Trade him.

 

He's a steal where he's ranked imho

The thing is he doesn’t have much of a deep team around him. He could be better defensively for sure if he had more to work with. A bit of a project and could be another MacInnis type. Not sure if he has a cannon for a shot but could be a surprise nonetheless. If we end up with  2 or 3 firsts this year, I would be inclined to take a flyer on him with 1or 2 defensively responsible picks as well. When a guy possesses superior offensive talent as kind of a lone wolf on his team it could be something special.

[jjgallow]

46 minutes ago, sagacity7 said:

The thing is he doesn’t have much of a deep team around him. He could be better defensively for sure if he had more to work with. A bit of a project and could be another MacInnis type. Not sure if he has a cannon for a shot but could be a surprise nonetheless. If we end up with  2 or 3 firsts this year, I would be inclined to take a flyer on him with 1or 2 defensively responsible picks as well. When a guy possesses superior offensive talent as kind of a lone wolf on his team it could be something special.

 

I completely agree.   And yes, outside of the cannon he looks very much like a MacInnis project.  Or in modern times I guess Roman Josi who was drafted in a similar spot.

 

The way I see it, you can't win without taking risks.   A no-risk pick is not only a myth, but a wasted pick.

 

I should add, I never liked MacInnis.  Didn't like anything about him on or off the ice.  Didn't like his attitude, didn't like his defensive lapses.  And these issues were well known on draft day.

 

So despite all these flaws, should we have drafted him?

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1981e.html

 

Heck yeah we should have.   We dodged a major, major bullet by taking that risk.

 

We won that big time, although there was Chris Chelios in the 2nd round.   Now I'm wondering what knocked him down...it definitely wasn't his stats.  Huge numbers out of junior.

 

 

Bottom line, take the risk and get the talent.    IMHO Flames shoulda traded MacInnis, but they won a cup so who am I to say.    We can debate that all we like, drafting him was a good risk to take.