2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[conundrumed]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I want Yager or Danielson but they are both not trending well.  Reinbacher would be nice but he's out of range.  Sandin-Pellikka, you've listed him as L D but he's actually RHS.  I don't mind him but he's a smaller offensive D.  Still though, we need to add RHS D to the prospect pool.  He would be a good add at 16th.

Fixed thanks! He'll likely be the 1st D gone by the looks of the chatter. It will be difficult for us to make a bad pick at 16. I could argue for about 6-8 players that are likely available. Likely comes down to interviews and which type of skill weakness/consistency that you think can be overcome.

In the same vein of Danielson, Yager, I'd also look at wingers Ritchie and Musty. Have to consider Yager is likely a winger in the NHL and Danielson a Top 9C that you hope will be Top 6.

I think the other 3 are top 6 for wing. Ritchie maybe slightly behind Yager and Musty, but a more complete toolbox.

It's always fun to go back and read past scouting reports to get a sense of the mushy middle of potential vs reality.

https://smahtscouting.com/2020/09/22/scouting-report-connor-zary/

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well we all heard Bean and Maloney say it.  This is a good team.  Doesn't need changes.

 

Good team and don't need changes are mutually exclusive thoughts.

Every cup winner makes changes.

Even if they feel Sutter was 100% responsible, there would still be a belief that something was missing.

Sutter wasn't in nets.

Sutter played the guys that he had available, even if some were benched.

Close to a playoff spot - maybe.

Close to a contender - nope.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Good team and don't need changes are mutually exclusive thoughts.

Every cup winner makes changes.

Even if they feel Sutter was 100% responsible, there would still be a belief that something was missing.

Sutter wasn't in nets.

Sutter played the guys that he had available, even if some were benched.

Close to a playoff spot - maybe.

Close to a contender - nope.

 

Speaking of nets, Bean specifically said Markstrom was a Vezina-level goalie and we shouldn't trade him.  So there's more proof this franchise doesn't want to make any changes.

[travel_dude]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Speaking of nets, Bean specifically said Markstrom was a Vezina-level goalie and we shouldn't trade him.  So there's more proof this franchise doesn't want to make any changes.

 

I think what he said was that he will be better and return to that level.  And he was looking forward to seeing him play like that.  All of these comments are inappropriate before you hire a new GM.  

 

I had my issues about him saying anything about the team.  You are at the funeral for the GM and talking about a team that underperformed.  Unless you are a great judge of a team and have built winners in the past, all you are doing is saying stuff to divert away from the team failings.

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Speaking of nets, Bean specifically said Markstrom was a Vezina-level goalie and we shouldn't trade him.  So there's more proof this franchise doesn't want to make any changes.

Markstrom is 33 years old worth 3 more years at $6m and a full NMC, coming off a terrible season. We would have to add a sweetener to move him. Better off keeping and hoping for a rebound than to give up assets to move him.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Fixed thanks! He'll likely be the 1st D gone by the looks of the chatter. It will be difficult for us to make a bad pick at 16. I could argue for about 6-8 players that are likely available. Likely comes down to interviews and which type of skill weakness/consistency that you think can be overcome.

In the same vein of Danielson, Yager, I'd also look at wingers Ritchie and Musty. Have to consider Yager is likely a winger in the NHL and Danielson a Top 9C that you hope will be Top 6.

I think the other 3 are top 6 for wing. Ritchie maybe slightly behind Yager and Musty, but a more complete toolbox.

It's always fun to go back and read past scouting reports to get a sense of the mushy middle of potential vs reality.

https://smahtscouting.com/2020/09/22/scouting-report-connor-zary/

 

No problem if Yager is RW at the NHL level.  Toffoli can't play forever.  We can run Coronato and Yager 1/2 on the right side for the next 12 years.  Two 30-to-40-goal scorers for many years to come.

 

Yager has an NHL wrist shot already.  Needs to round out his game.

 

Danielson seems like a solid two-way play maker.  Good vision and passing.  Could be a poor man's #1 Center in the NHL.  Most likely settles in as a 2nd line C... 50-to-60-points per season type.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

Markstrom is 33 years old worth 3 more years at $6m and a full NMC, coming off a terrible season. We would have to add a sweetener to move him. Better off keeping and hoping for a rebound than to give up assets to move him.

 

Ya agreed.  I've said this already and it's that I hope Bean was just trying to appear high on his players to give the perception of value.  I hope deep down inside, they understand what a disaster Markstrom will be for the next 3 years with a potential buyout coming in the final year of his contract if they don't work hard to dump his contract this summer.

[cross16]

19 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So how quickly do the Flames need to hire a GM and coach? I would assume that the scouts have their favorites regardless of whos hired but would a fresh GM put 100% faith in scouts he may have a very limited relationship with?  Also is getting a coach in place beforehand factor into the draft plan?

 

At this point typically the majority of heavy lifting on the draft as been done and the scouts do 90% of the work anyway. The GM is normally tasked with creating what vision/traits they are looking for, but scouts do the majority of it and then dial in GMs towards the end to see if they have suggestions on the list. 

 

Long story short, I don't think the draft changes your timeline on hiring anyone because its the scouts and the director of scouting that do the heavy lifting. 

[JTech780]

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

At this point typically the majority of heavy lifting on the draft as been done and the scouts do 90% of the work anyway. The GM is normally tasked with creating what vision/traits they are looking for, but scouts do the majority of it and then dial in GMs towards the end to see if they have suggestions on the list. 

 

Long story short, I don't think the draft changes your timeline on hiring anyone because its the scouts and the director of scouting that do the heavy lifting. 

The biggest reason to add a GM before the draft would be for trades, if you are looking to do any reshaping of your roster it would happen at the draft.

[The_People1]

35 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

At this point typically the majority of heavy lifting on the draft as been done and the scouts do 90% of the work anyway. The GM is normally tasked with creating what vision/traits they are looking for, but scouts do the majority of it and then dial in GMs towards the end to see if they have suggestions on the list. 

 

Long story short, I don't think the draft changes your timeline on hiring anyone because its the scouts and the director of scouting that do the heavy lifting. 

 

17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

The biggest reason to add a GM before the draft would be for trades, if you are looking to do any reshaping of your roster it would happen at the draft.

 

At any point in the draft, there's probably 2 to 5 players the scouts really like.  A direction from the GM is key because then we can decide, for example, on fast/skilled vs big/power, shooter vs passer, defense vs offense, etc.

[cross16]

23 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

The biggest reason to add a GM before the draft would be for trades, if you are looking to do any reshaping of your roster it would happen at the draft.

 

Good point. My answer was very focused on the scouting aspect of this. If the Flames were to hire a GM externally, who is currently in the league, its very likely/common that he woudln't be able to participate in the draft meetings anyway. 

 

100% agree you need a GM in place by the draft, I agree. 

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

At any point in the draft, there's probably 2 to 5 players the scouts really like.  A direction from the GM is key because then we can decide, for example, on fast/skilled vs big/power, shooter vs passer, defense vs offense, etc.

 

If you've done a good job pre draft this shouldn't happen. Brian Burke called it a firable offence to change the list on the draft floor. 

 

Those debates should be done already. Trust the board/list as they say. 

[The_People1]

Just now, cross16 said:

If you've done a good job pre draft this shouldn't happen. Brian Burke called it a firable offence to change the list on the draft floor. 

 

Those debates should be done already. Trust the board/list as they say. 

 

Right but if you've drafted 2 straight Goalies, then you probably shouldn't draft a 3rd one even if that's BPA.  Lists need to be flexible to a certain extent and having a GM helps guide things.  Otherwise, sure, you take 3 straight goalies in the draft.

[JTech780]

Before all this happened it sounded like Conroy had a deal in place to return as AGM, but when Treliving decided against returning, that deal got put aside as Conroy wants the GM role. So I wonder if Conroy will still be involved at the draft in one capacity or another.

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Right but if you've drafted 2 straight Goalies, then you probably shouldn't draft a 3rd one even if that's BPA.  Lists need to be flexible to a certain extent and having a GM helps guide things.  Otherwise, sure, you take 3 straight goalies in the draft.

 

I don't agree with that logic no, not unless the player's are tied. 

 

Making decision at the moment in the draft means bringing emotion into a decision that should exclude emotion. Your list should account for the scenario of taking multiple players in the same position. 

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

Before all this happened it sounded like Conroy had a deal in place to return as AGM, but when Treliving decided against returning, that deal got put aside as Conroy wants the GM role. So I wonder if Conroy will still be involved at the draft in one capacity or another.

 

It seems Conroy wants the job.  He's probably going to leave if the Flames hire someone from the outside.

[The_People1]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

I don't agree with that logic no, not unless the player's are tied. 

 

Making decision at the moment in the draft means bringing emotion into a decision that should exclude emotion. Your list should account for the scenario of taking multiple players in the same position. 

 

Not at all about emotions.  It goes back to the GM providing the "theme" initially to prioritize certain type of players over another because that's the type of team the GM will try to build.  ie. "big/heavy vs fast/skilled".  Moreover, the difference between a 115th ranked player and a 116th is so minor that you need to be flexible going into the draft to achieve draft goals.  For example, the GM may ask the scouting staff to pull 3 D from the draft... when its our turn to draft, that might be the perfect opportunity to take the next D on the list because that's what the boss has asked for.

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not at all about emotions.  It goes back to the GM providing the "theme" initially to prioritize certain type of players over another because that's the type of team the GM will try to build.  ie. "big/heavy vs fast/skilled".  Moreover, the difference between a 115th ranked player and a 116th is so minor that you need to be flexible going into the draft to achieve draft goals.  For example, the GM may ask the scouting staff to pull 3 D from the draft... when its our turn to draft, that might be the perfect opportunity to take the next D on the list because that's what the boss has asked for.

 

we are saying the same thing

 

All I'm saying is that all of this should be done by the time the draft starts. GM's impact on a draft is more around trades/moving around to get the players they want and less impacting who is actually picked because their influence/opinion is already worked into the draft. 

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

we are saying the same thing

 

All I'm saying is that all of this should be done by the time the draft starts. GM's impact on a draft is more around trades/moving around to get the players they want and less impacting who is actually picked because their influence/opinion is already worked into the draft. 

 

Ah I see.  So absent a new GM, the list can only be done per BT's vision for the team.  A new GM coming in now could alter the list quite a bit depending on the new GM's vision.  

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ah I see.  So absent a new GM, the list can only be done per BT's vision for the team.  A new GM coming in now could alter the list quite a bit depending on the new GM's ownerships vision.  

Altered it to fit my narrative as I still think the owners will still have influence on the teams direction. 

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Altered it to fit my narrative as I still think the owners will still have influence on the teams direction. 

 

I hope the owners don't interfere to this level.  By GM's vision, I mean a GM may want to build a defense-first team that focuses on defensive Dmen and defensive forwards.  Once the GM sets this goal, then the scouts rank a list of prospects to meet this general team building strategy.  

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I hope the owners don't interfere to this level.  By GM's vision, I mean a GM may want to build a defense-first team that focuses on defensive Dmen and defensive forwards.  Once the GM sets this goal, then the scouts rank a list of prospects to meet this general team building strategy.  

That concern is non-existent. Scouts run drafts, GMs are just figureheads. There are examples of existing GMs getting scouts to focus on particular players for a season (Yzerman-Seider) but a new GM isn't changing how you've scouted this draft class for the last couple of years. Even Burke coming in as PoHO wasn't touching that.

Owners and new GMs aren't strong-arming your scouts unless you want an exodus.

How many GMs have we heard say, "I leave it to our scouts". Even BT saying, "If I didn't take Mangiapane, Doran would have punched me".

So I have to call this inventing a scenario.lol

Another one is crediting/discrediting a GM for drafting. That is all on your scouting dept. A GM foots the blame when they have a lousy scouting dept, that's about it.

We have a great scouting dept, no one's over-riding them. They'll just go work for someone else. Good scouts are in high demand.

[conundrumed]

My shot at Dmen:

1. David Reinbacher R 6'2"/189

2. Axel Sandin-Pellika R 5'11"/181

3. Dmitri Simashev L 6'4"/201

4. Tom Willander R 6'1"/179

5. Maxim Strbak R 6'2"/198

6, Mikhail Gulyayev L 5'10"/170

7. Caden Price L 6'1"/181

8. Oliver Bonk R 6'1"/176

9. Theo Lindstein L 6'/181

10. Luca Cagnoni L 5'10"/172

11. Cam Allen R 5'11"/190

12. Aram Minnetian R 6'/170

13. Beau Akey 6'/170

14. Tristan Bertucci L 6'2"/179

15. Tanner Molendyk L 5'11"/176

16. Matthew Mania R 6'/187

17. Andrew Gibson R 6'3"/198

18. Lukas Dragicevic R 6'2"/181

19. Hunter Brzustewicz R 6'/187

20. Gavin McCarthy R 6'1"/181

21. Quinton Burns L 6'1"/179

22. Andrew Fortescue L 6'3"

My guess is 1-7 potential rd 1;

8-15 rd 2

16-22 rd 3 but a few sneaking into rd 2.

I'll attempt a rd 2 as well, I'm about half done. Just so everyone can see how badly I suck.lol

[cross16]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I hope the owners don't interfere to this level.  By GM's vision, I mean a GM may want to build a defense-first team that focuses on defensive Dmen and defensive forwards.  Once the GM sets this goal, then the scouts rank a list of prospects to meet this general team building strategy.  

I’m not a fan of ownership here but I have zero concerns about their involvement at that level. 
No reason to believe that is the case. 

 

[The_People1]

17 hours ago, conundrumed said:

My shot at Dmen:

1. David Reinbacher R 6'2"/189

2. Axel Sandin-Pellika R 5'11"/181

3. Dmitri Simashev L 6'4"/201

4. Tom Willander R 6'1"/179

5. Maxim Strbak R 6'2"/198

6, Mikhail Gulyayev L 5'10"/170

7. Caden Price L 6'1"/181

8. Oliver Bonk R 6'1"/176

9. Theo Lindstein L 6'/181

10. Luca Cagnoni L 5'10"/172

11. Cam Allen R 5'11"/190

12. Aram Minnetian R 6'/170

13. Beau Akey 6'/170

14. Tristan Bertucci L 6'2"/179

15. Tanner Molendyk L 5'11"/176

16. Matthew Mania R 6'/187

17. Andrew Gibson R 6'3"/198

18. Lukas Dragicevic R 6'2"/181

19. Hunter Brzustewicz R 6'/187

20. Gavin McCarthy R 6'1"/181

21. Quinton Burns L 6'1"/179

22. Andrew Fortescue L 6'3"

My guess is 1-7 potential rd 1;

8-15 rd 2

16-22 rd 3 but a few sneaking into rd 2.

I'll attempt a rd 2 as well, I'm about half done. Just so everyone can see how badly I suck.lol

 

Looks good.  So we might have a shot at Lukas Dragicevic after all.  He and Parker Bell led Tri-City in scoring this season.  RHS RD offensive D.

 

The Flames don't have a 3rd round pick but maybe he's a target with our 2nd rounder.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Looks good.  So we might have a shot at Lukas Dragicevic after all.  He and Parker Bell led Tri-City in scoring this season.  RHS RD offensive D.

 

The Flames don't have a 3rd round pick but maybe he's a target with our 2nd rounder.

I'm positive that I have him ranked lower than most. Someone will love the offense. I'm just not high on him due to his skating and defense. There is a lot to fix there, and where is the offense going to go when he has to play like a defenceman? I'm not hoping for him. I have Strbak higher than everyone I believe. He could be there at 48, or Allen.

I'm a little surprised Bertucci is generally ranked as a 3rd rder. He's been solid when I've watched him, and really stood out on a Flint team that was pretty decent. He doesn't really have any glaring flaws, just put on more muscle, like everyone else. I like him too.