GDT - FLAMES @ Stars - Saturday 14 January 2023 - 12PM MT

[travel_dude]

Ras having a rough day.

Been on for all 5 Dallas goals.

Hanifin on for 4 of 5

[travel_dude]

JFC, the 2nd line out there for the D zone draw.

[travel_dude]

I will take the win, but what the heck is the game plan?

[rocketdoctor]

Jeepers really needed 2 points but we are so sloppy at times.

 

Vladar probably should have had 2 of those 5 but hey i'll take the win

 

Go Flames Go!

 

[pikey7883]

Flames look like they’re determined to have the most 1 goal games in a season, even to the detrimentally aging fan base who have to watch these games, lol

[tmac70]

Take the win but JFC, 60 mintues and they show up for 40 minutes. How good could this club be with a 60 minute effort. 

[CheersMan]

Well that turned out to be a little more dramatic than it needed to be. Flames owed the first 2 periods.

Vlader made the big saves again in the 1st to keep DAL off the score board.

Game was over after 2, except Flames fell victim to taking foot off the gas.

DAL showed us why they are the highest scoring 3rd period team in the league to make it interesting.

We have 6 games left before the All Star break and mini vacation. 

One more big game remaining on this road trip in NAS. This is a must win for NAS so we better show up.

Then we have 4 home games with COL, TB, CB and CHI.

COL is banged up and having a terrible season, but it will be a must win for COL too.

TB in our barn will be a challenge, followed by the 2 worst teams in the league, CB and CHI.

Then we got Seattle on the road the night after we play CHI at home. We need the Seattle game.

Not a bad schedule leading into the All Star break.

 

 

 

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Ras having a rough day.

Been on for all 5 Dallas goals.

Hanifin on for 4 of 5

I haven't liked this pairing defensively...that was quite a ride.lol

2 smaller things I noticed that I like. Duehr's back-checking and how fast Ruzicka moves the puck on the PP.

Stupid Wings, glad I went to watch the u18's instead, great hockey and all day playoffs tomorrow u18 A, AA, AAA.

Good win Flames, start the car and get outta there! Special thanks to Wedgewood.

Dallas is good. That pushback showed that we're a pretty scattered and unstable team when the push comes. Same as last year's playoff exit. Gotta figure that one out.

[CheersMan]

44 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I haven't liked this pairing defensively...that was quite a ride.lol

2 smaller things I noticed that I like. Duehr's back-checking and how fast Ruzicka moves the puck on the PP.

Stupid Wings, glad I went to watch the u18's instead, great hockey and all day playoffs tomorrow u18 A, AA, AAA.

Good win Flames, start the car and get outta there! Special thanks to Wedgewood.

Dallas is good. That pushback showed that we're a pretty scattered and unstable team when the push comes. Same as last year's playoff exit. Gotta figure that one out.

 

Duehr looks fine, Ruzicka too, so much for the argument “DS doesn’t give young guys opportunity BS”.

Something else I liked this game was Backlund on the PP, he worked along the half boards nicely and created opportunities. Maybe it was just a poor DAL PK, I don’t know.

 

Flames probably didn’t deserve 6 and Stars probably didn’t deserve 5, I felt we deserved the 2 pts though. We got Wedgewood they got Vladar, it was a saw off in net.

 

I agree, the Flames aren’t scarring anyone with the lead. We need to relearn how to shut teams down.

[pikey7883]

46 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I haven't liked this pairing defensively...that was quite a ride.lol

2 smaller things I noticed that I like. Duehr's back-checking and how fast Ruzicka moves the puck on the PP.

Stupid Wings, glad I went to watch the u18's instead, great hockey and all day playoffs tomorrow u18 A, AA, AAA.

Good win Flames, start the car and get outta there! Special thanks to Wedgewood.

Dallas is good. That pushback showed that we're a pretty scattered and unstable team when the push comes. Same as last year's playoff exit. Gotta figure that one out.

I have also known Ruzie on the PP, I wonder what a PP 1 of Anderson up top.

Ruzie on the Left Boards Hubie on the Right boards, Lindy in the Bumper spot, and Kadri either in front of the net or winning board battles down low.

Then on PP2, go with Toffoli and Weegar up top with Backlund Mang and Dube buzzing around, just give it a different look then PP1, so the team is forced to read and react to what you’re doing.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I haven't liked this pairing defensively...that was quite a ride.lol

2 smaller things I noticed that I like. Duehr's back-checking and how fast Ruzicka moves the puck on the PP.

Stupid Wings, glad I went to watch the u18's instead, great hockey and all day playoffs tomorrow u18 A, AA, AAA.

Good win Flames, start the car and get outta there! Special thanks to Wedgewood.

Dallas is good. That pushback showed that we're a pretty scattered and unstable team when the push comes. Same as last year's playoff exit. Gotta figure that one out.

 

There was an expected pushback.

Dallas is the opposite to us, we score more in the 1st than anyone, they score most in the 3rd.

I noticed they were using Ruzie as the QB or similar on PP2.

You are right, he is pretty slick there.

Will very rarely take a shot, but when he does, it's one or two chances.

Maybe I would like to see him and Backlund reverse.

What I see on that unit is two of the smaller guys fighting in the slot or the boards.

I am okay with one of them there, maybe not both.

But, saying that, they were the best unit today.

 

Poor Weegar never gets a sniff of PP time and when he gets 20 seconds, he gets his first point.

Hanifin can be pretty brainless out there on the PP.

Shoot the puck through a guy's pads and wonder why it bouncs out to center ice.

 

The top unit has been faltering ever since they started playing 24+ minutes a game.

The sweet spot seems to be 22 or less, when they play more we lose.

 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Well that turned out to be a little more dramatic than it needed to be. Flames owed the first 2 periods.

Vlader made the big saves again in the 1st to keep DAL off the score board.

Game was over after 2, except Flames fell victim to taking foot off the gas.

DAL showed us why they are the highest scoring 3rd period team in the league to make it interesting.

We have 6 games left before the All Star break and mini vacation. 

One more big game remaining on this road trip in NAS. This is a must win for NAS so we better show up.

Then we have 4 home games with COL, TB, CB and CHI.

COL is banged up and having a terrible season, but it will be a must win for COL too.

TB in our barn will be a challenge, followed by the 2 worst teams in the league, CB and CHI.

Then we got Seattle on the road the night after we play CHI at home. We need the Seattle game.

Not a bad schedule leading into the All Star break.

 

I'd rather we play 4 straight against tough competition because that's when this team shows up.  I feel like we can count CBJ, CHI, and NAS as losses already.

[CheersMan]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'd rather we play 4 straight against tough competition because that's when this team shows up.  I feel like we can count CBJ, CHI, and NAS as losses already.

I hear ya. We have already given up 10 pts this season to the 6 teams we face next, and we haven’t played COL yet who appear to be warming up. Lets wait and see if we learned anything from the first go around. 

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'd rather we play 4 straight against tough competition because that's when this team shows up.  I feel like we can count CBJ, CHI, and NAS as losses already.

 

5 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I hear ya. We have already given up 10 pts this season to the 6 teams we face next, and we haven’t played COL yet who appear to be warming up. Lets wait and see if we learned anything from the first go around. 

 

It's hell weeks for us.  We can beat every team we see the next two weeks, but I fear coaching will do something dumb.  Like starting Markstrom for 4 in a row.  Or demoting Dube to the 4th line.  

[The_Tribal Chief]

Well Markstron is gonna get back in he is the number one

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_Tribal Chief said:

Well Markstron is gonna get back in he is the number one

 

There really isn't debate on whether he is the number 1.  If he is struggling, like the way he has struggled for most of this season, then you can't just start him over and over. You want to win a majority, not just use player X because he has the title.  You want to play the best player at specific times.   

[cross16]

For all the flak he’s getting this year I think we’re being over critical of how Sutter has handled goaltending. I support giving Vladar move starts but they guy isn’t exactly seizing the net either. 

he was not good yesterday.it’s a small sample size so bad games swing things more for him than Markstrom. This isn’t meant to criticize Vladar he is doing his job as the backup but at the same time I don’t think he’s making you re-think who the starter should be. 
 

 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

For all the flak he’s getting this year I think we’re being over critical of how Sutter has handled goaltending. I support giving Vladar move starts but they guy isn’t exactly seizing the net either. 

he was not good yesterday.it’s a small sample size so bad games swing things more for him than Markstrom. This isn’t meant to criticize Vladar he is doing his job as the backup but at the same time I don’t think he’s making you re-think who the starter should be. 

 

The bolded is what I suspect we all agree on. And it's not as obvious as it was in EDM.

Vladar has been up and down on his starts, but recently (not yesterday) he has has good results.

Last 10 starts for Vladar 7-0-3; one of the OTL was a 38 minute relief.

Markstrom 5-3-1 and no decision.

 

When a goalie is looking strong, start him.

I'm not sure that Markstrom had good enough games to justify 5 in a row.

Same is true of Vladar.

Looked good in relief and against STL.

Wasn't great in the 3rd period last game.

 

 

[conundrumed]

58 minutes ago, cross16 said:

For all the flak he’s getting this year I think we’re being over critical of how Sutter has handled goaltending. I support giving Vladar move starts but they guy isn’t exactly seizing the net either. 

he was not good yesterday.it’s a small sample size so bad games swing things more for him than Markstrom. This isn’t meant to criticize Vladar he is doing his job as the backup but at the same time I don’t think he’s making you re-think who the starter should be. 
 

 

Seeing Husso there makes me very suspicious of this chart. He’s done a lot to hide Detroit’s huge defensive zone issues. So I seriously have to wonder what hat these numbers get pulled from.

Seems pretty erroneous.

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Seeing Husso there makes me very suspicious of this chart. He’s done a lot to hide Detroit’s huge defensive zone issues. So I seriously have to wonder what hat these numbers get pulled from.

Seems pretty erroneous.

it’s not a perfect metric I agree and really no goalie stats are. I didn’t post it intended for it to be taken all at face value there should always be some skepticism. And to be fair to Vladar if you change it to 5on 5 he looks better, and Markstrom worse. 
the only point I am making is I think the Vladar love is getting a bit carried away. Been ok, but certainly not great and really the flames don’t have a number 1 right now so I can understand why Sutter still views Markstrom that way. 

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

For all the flak he’s getting this year I think we’re being over critical of how Sutter has handled goaltending. I support giving Vladar move starts but they guy isn’t exactly seizing the net either. 

he was not good yesterday.it’s a small sample size so bad games swing things more for him than Markstrom. This isn’t meant to criticize Vladar he is doing his job as the backup but at the same time I don’t think he’s making you re-think who the starter should be. 

 

 

39 minutes ago, cross16 said:

it’s not a perfect metric I agree and really no goalie stats are. I didn’t post it intended for it to be taken all at face value there should always be some skepticism. And to be fair to Vladar if you change it to 5on 5 he looks better, and Markstrom worse. 
the only point I am making is I think the Vladar love is getting a bit carried away. Been ok, but certainly not great and really the flames don’t have a number 1 right now so I can understand why Sutter still views Markstrom that way. 

 

For sure some posters here are being over critical. This is where some come to offer ill advised opinions and create drama. DS wasn’t born yesterday, he knows what he has in both goalies. He’s not about to make negative statements about Markstrom in the media that will hinder Markstom's progression in getting to where he was last year as Vezina candidate. DS gives vets longer rope than the kids because the vets are pros while the kids are still learning to be pros. DS will continue to support Markstrom while giving Vladar more starts. DS doesn’t have to tell anyone who is getting the next 6-10 starts because he doesn’t know himself until game day. Even though 5 got by Vladar yesterday he should credited for blanking the Stars for periods 1 and 2, shots were coming through traffic from every direction in the 3rd while the team in front of him sat back. Vladar got the win and I think we will be seeing more of him before the All Star break.

[conundrumed]

Honestly I like Markstrom as our goalie. My real only whinging has been giving him 4-5 starts in a row. I'd like to see a 3-1 ratio adhered to. It's more like, "that wasn't his best game, start the other guy",

Make a plan and stick to it. It doesn't look like a plan. That's my biggest issue with usage.

It doesn't need to be a game day decision. The team has to play consistently regardless of who's in net.

Markstrom may lose a game mainly because of him. That happens. But for the love of god, saying he's no good is more on the viewer's frustration than it is on reality. Markstrom's a great goalie. I'm just pissy with him that he hasn't been scoring enough goals to help himself out.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Honestly I like Markstrom as our goalie. My real only whinging has been giving him 4-5 starts in a row. I'd like to see a 3-1 ratio adhered to. It's more like, "that wasn't his best game, start the other guy",

Make a plan and stick to it. It doesn't look like a plan. That's my biggest issue with usage.

It doesn't need to be a game day decision. The team has to play consistently regardless of who's in net.

Markstrom may lose a game mainly because of him. That happens. But for the love of god, saying he's no good is more on the viewer's frustration than it is on reality. Markstrom's a great goalie. I'm just pissy with him that he hasn't been scoring enough goals to help himself out.

 

Obviously there are degrees of frustration with the starts.

And some see issues that may just be "oh, he did the same thing in the playoffs".

Myself, I ignore the stats and look at the saves.

Some of that might get reflected in the fancy stats.

Some may just be looking at the situation and thinking, wow.

In recent games, I saw some saves by Vladar that included avoiding in tight stuff resuylting in goals.

And the inevitable breakeaway.

The Dallas game was a weird one.

It seemed to be the entire team coming unglued.

 

Markstrom has had really good games where he let in too many.

Not that I blame him, as the W is important.

 

I tend to prefer to see that you alternate a little more frequently.

5 in a row spells trouble.  Teams are scoting recent games to see tendencies.

And you see some habits creeping in that can turn into standard reaction.

The CHI game was one too many.

And sticking with Vladar for the coming game also is questionable.

 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Obviously there are degrees of frustration with the starts.

And some see issues that may just be "oh, he did the same thing in the playoffs".

Myself, I ignore the stats and look at the saves.

Some of that might get reflected in the fancy stats.

Some may just be looking at the situation and thinking, wow.

In recent games, I saw some saves by Vladar that included avoiding in tight stuff resuylting in goals.

And the inevitable breakeaway.

The Dallas game was a weird one.

It seemed to be the entire team coming unglued.

 

Markstrom has had really good games where he let in too many.

Not that I blame him, as the W is important.

 

I tend to prefer to see that you alternate a little more frequently.

5 in a row spells trouble.  Teams are scoting recent games to see tendencies.

And you see some habits creeping in that can turn into standard reaction.

The CHI game was one too many.

And sticking with Vladar for the coming game also is questionable.

 

The bolded is what I am alluding to. Sutter tends to say, here's what I'm going to do, stats back it up. But then he kinda gets hung up for awhile and then has to over-compensate to stay on task.

3 and 1 turns into 5 and one, then 3 and 2, then 3 and 0, then 2 and 3, then 4 and 0.

Be consistent, this team needs to get consistent regardless of goalie. Seeing goalie usage have no real rhyme or reason (to my pea brain) makes me raise an eyebrow about consistencies in other areas.

I get Sutter is excellent at hockey, but man I just can't understand him sometimes. With my vast topped out in Jr B intellect.lol

We're going to run for a cup this year, aren't we?

I always feel like Sutter's playing possum.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The bolded is what I am alluding to. Sutter tends to say, here's what I'm going to do, stats back it up. But then he kinda gets hung up for awhile and then has to over-compensate to stay on task.

3 and 1 turns into 5 and one, then 3 and 2, then 3 and 0, then 2 and 3, then 4 and 0.

Be consistent, this team needs to get consistent regardless of goalie. Seeing goalie usage have no real rhyme or reason (to my pea brain) makes me raise an eyebrow about consistencies in other areas.

I get Sutter is excellent at hockey, but man I just can't understand him sometimes. With my vast topped out in Jr B intellect.lol

We're going to run for a cup this year, aren't we?

I always feel like Sutter's playing possum.

 

And I understand the part you refer to.

I'm assuming there to be some logic in the decisions.

Like goalie A playes well against team A.

Vladar starting against WAS.

Not starting him against BOS is another story.

But it seems different most times.

Like there is no plan, just counting starts.

Gotta get to 60.