2022 Offseason

[travel_dude]

Tkachuk's arbitration is August 11th.

Mange is August 5th.

Kylington is August 11th.

Phillips is July 30th.

[phoenix66]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Tkachuk's arbitration is August 11th.

Mange is August 5th.

Kylington is August 11th.

Phillips is July 30th.

perfect, how we know the first deadline for any teams that want to sign him first 

[bosn111]

Ok, so thinking things through to come up with some ideas. Gaudreau left, leaves an opening on LW but lots of cap space.
 

Tkachuk says he won’t sign with Calgary long term, can still do 1 year through arbitration. This gives Treliving a year essentially to trade him. Now is likely highest value in a trade that brings back current talent, especially if they are also on expiring contracts and going UFA. Harder to do futures for a possible 1 year player. Not impossible, just harder.

 

With both Gaudreau and Tkachuk gone, that really changes the complexion of the team, regardless of trade pieces coming back. This gives Treliving more opportunity to build a team to his style rather than fitting pieces already in place. Treliving is figuring out what the team should be, so that he can make the best possible trade.

 

Some current pieces have trade value, some are versatile, some are just downright useful for the team. We can see where some current players can still fit, which don’t, and what holes exist.

 

Without Johnny around, Monahan is going to be traded. He doesn’t have chemistry with others, injuries have derailed his career here and he needs a fresh look elsewhere. With 1 year remaining, if he can be sent out east, I think he goes no problem. Likely need to retain salary or bring back some, not likely getting a huge return in trade, but moving him would benefit both team and player in my mind.

 

Backlund has value for any team looking at playoffs, Flames included. With 2 years remaining under contract, he would not be pure rental at the trade deadline, so his value is likely highest right now for a trade. Otherwise he is here likely until TDL 2024.

 

Dube has a relative value contract for 2 more years, has enough experience/ skill to be sought after and will be RFA at end of contract. Just hasn’t really found his footing in Calgary so likely good, not great, trade value now but not likely changing value anytime soon.

 

Mangiapane and Kylington need new contracts and will get better than QO in arbitration. I would prefer they sign longer than 1 year before it gets there, but we will see.

 

Flames are currently built from net out with Markstrom and then good D. Could upgrade on D, but would be costly. Andersson and Tanev likely most untouchable at the moment but I would also hold onto Hanifin. I know others don’t like Hanifin, but he is at least a second pair, so if you could upgrade to push him down to 2nd with Tanev then D would be looking awesome. Any upgrade on LD would likely make Kylington expendable, Valimaki likely needs to be traded now before his value takes an even bigger hit. 1 year before RFA gives a different team time to see what he brings.

 

 I think with 1 year left under contract, Lucic may be extended at a significant reduction in salary. The toughness is great to have, and his experience as well. Somewhere in the 1 to 1.5 million range would not be out of line I think. I don’t really see other teams offering significantly more.

 

So in my mind, trade pieces for the flames are:

 

Tkachuk

Dube

Valimaki

Monahan

**Kylington** (if top LD received in other trade)

 

Looking at possible trade partners. 
 

Anaheim has a ton of cap space, need 2-3 forwards and 2-3 D depending on Silferberg injury and a couple of RFAs. They need to spend another 8.5 million just to hit cap floor. I don’t see a lot of trades player for player that would work as Zegras and MacTavish are likely untouchable, so unlikely to move Tkachuk there unless Treliving is choosing picks only. Would Monahan go to Anaheim to play a supporting role? He would get them close to cap floor. Mid round pick in return? I know it isn’t east, but this is more likely a fit cap wise.

 

Arizona has lots of cap space, too many players on roster, a couple RFAs to sign, need a goalie and need to add a few mil to hit cap floor. They have 5 waiver eligible, so no worries making space on the roster. I am having trouble seeing reasonable trades here. Chychrun, Crouse, McBain and Keller would be my only real targets. None of Dube, Monahan, Valimaki or Kylington get you any of these. Would Tkachuk + Kylington for Chychrun, Crouse + picks make sense? Chychrun is better D, Tkachuk better F, Crouse and Kylington are both unsigned RFAs.

 

Buffalo has plenty of cap space, they are above the cap floor and have enough players. Would they look at Monahan as an experienced C? They are building strong young D with Dahlin and Power. Monahan would be closer to home, closer to Johnny and would likely have more opportunities to play up the lineup as Buffalo has little real firepower on offence. Would Monahan + Dube for Cozens and Krebs be decent value? 
 

Any Tkachuk trade to NJ now would need salary coming back. They have just over 9.5 mil cap space and need to sign 3 more forwards. They may have extra cap depending on Bernier with Bratt, Boqvist and Wood all as unsigned RFA. So really any Tkachuk to NJ trade would need to be much more convoluted than him for a player or 2 plus picks. Jersey would need to clear cap and fill holes without too much extra salary. Something like Tkachuk + Dube + Valimaki for Mercer + Bratt + Tatar + Severson. Valimaki and Dube are lower cap hits than Tatar or Severson while filling the holes they would leave, Both likely 1 year only Flames but reasonable place holders. Bratt is their most skilled RFA and even with extra space unlikely to afford him once Tkachuk signed. Wood and Boqvist likely able to be signed though. Mercer would be a good, young replacement for Backlund in the future.

 

Just some thoughts on possible trades. Frees up a lot of cap space and doesn’t create too many holes. Still missing a piece or 2 but I have typed enough for now.

 

 

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Tkachuk's arbitration is August 11th.

Mange is August 5th.

Kylington is August 11th.

Phillips is July 30th.

 

Whelp pretty unlikely we get a trade soon then. 

[pikey7883]

I have been quiet thus far, mostly using my MT Friendship Tour T Shirt as a rag to wipe my tears 😭. 
But as I sober up, the two deals that make sense to me are either with New Jersey or St. Louis.

NJ has to include Mercer, 1st in 2023, and has to include a young D, like Mukhamadullin. If they don’t like it, Severson could be ok, but I’d rather have a young prospect at this point.

St Louis has to include Kyrou and Neighbors. For me with St Louis, I would give them two options after those two. Either there 1st in 2023 or Parayko. They’re not going to like it but there might be enough of a draw with MT “coming home” that we can squeeze them on this. If we can get Parayko, I would add either Kyl or Val to get that deal done. 
But either way, I feel like I’ll be crying into my Tshirt after this trade as well.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Kyrou is too vanilla for me but looking around at what players are available out there, Kyrou may be the biggest name.  I feel no matter what, we must get a 1st round pick in next summer's draft.  If it's truly as deep as some make it sound then we should be able to draft a solid player even in the 20s.

 

I think this is a trap the Flames need to avoid. Would it be great to get a pick sure but if teams value them too high are you prepared to take less in terms of assets just to get a pick? I sure wouldn't. This is exactly what got them into problems in 2013 they insisted they needed 1st round picks and wound up with a bunch of garbage outside of that. 

 

They shouldn't get tunnel vision on a first round pick if it means the other assets are lower. I get the lure of the "mystery box" that is a first round pick but the name of the game here as to be asset extraction. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

 

Might make a potential Nashville deal more unfavorable as they will need to offload a bigger salary now.

 

What a steal though. I would have loved Niederreiter

[zima]

16 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

You missed the entire trade.

Robertson + Faksa + Gurianov + Khudobin + Wyatt Johnson + 1st + 2nd, possibly Stankoven (high scoring C in the WHL)

 

for

 

Tkachuk

 

You never see deals like that.  Robertson alone was a 40 goal scorer.  On a team not known for scoring.

So you guys think they would drop those players for MrT ? And your right I only follow the Flames I could care a less of the rest of the NHL so I don't know the qualitgy of other teams players and don't care. I highly doubt Dallas would give up all that for him.

 

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think this is a trap the Flames need to avoid. Would it be great to get a pick sure but if teams value them too high are you prepared to take less in terms of assets just to get a pick? I sure wouldn't. This is exactly what got them into problems in 2013 they insisted they needed 1st round picks and wound up with a bunch of garbage outside of that. 

 

They shouldn't get tunnel vision on a first round pick if it means the other assets are lower. 

 

Ya if not a 1st then a high end prospect... But teams usually fall in love with their prospects so the 1st is easier to attain.

 

Just saying though, if it's Kyrou + 1st or Kyrou + Tarasenko, then the Flames have to take the 1st.  It's the right direction to take.

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Tkachuk's arbitration is August 11th.

Mange is August 5th.

Kylington is August 11th.

Phillips is July 30th.

 

I'm thinking Mangiapane on a one year... We have to think about trading him too if not immediately, then at the TDL.

[cross16]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya if not a 1st then a high end prospect... But teams usually fall in love with their prospects so the 1st is easier to attain.

 

Just saying though, if it's Kyrou + 1st or Kyrou + Tarasenko, then the Flames have to take the 1st.  It's the right direction to take.

 

Well maybe. if they love the 2023 draft they may overrate their pick and underrate their prospect. I'm just saying I think its a trap to say we need a first round pick just to get one if it means the quality of the offer is lowered. 

 

For example St Louis may go something like Bolduc, Neighbours, 1st and and 2nd but maybe if you drop the 1st you get Kyrou and Neighbours. I'm down the latter all day long. 

 

but yes totally agree the direction here is to get some futures. All i'm saying is they should be open to whatever lands them the most and best assets and I think to do that you can't insist on a first rounder. 

[LouCifer]

Bottom line is if St. Louis wants him, they’re gonna pay. I have no problem sending him anywhere else that he’s willing to sign. I really don’t see the fit with St. Louis and I struggle to see how they can make it worthwhile for us.
 

There’s only one scenario in my mind where it works: We aim for Thomas and we don’t let up on it. No tricks, no deception. I’d  keep Army involved in the process and be very candid and transparent about legitimate offers that are better than what he’s offering. I might even give him the last phone call before we pull the trigger on a deal elsewhere. And if we need to involve a third team to make the money work, we do so. I’m not a fan of the proposed trade involving St. Louis.
- Tarasenko is a 30 y/o, 1 year until UFA cap dump for St. Louis. I don’t care what he scored last year. If St. Louis wants Chucky who’s 23 for a 7-8 year contract, they’re not convincing me that Tank is a “valuable” add for us. No no, Tank is a valuable departure for you in a Chucky trade. If we have to take on Tank for you to get Chucky, you need to pay us to do that on top of what Chucky is worth. Other teams will pay for us to take on money to fit Chucky on their team. There won’t be an exception for St. Louis.
- St. Louis’ first round pick is going to suck next season. The west got weaker, and the Blues are about to get stronger with Chucky. Again, need to bring in more value here.

- Neighbours is about all I like in the proposed return. It does help that he’s from Alberta. Hopefully he wasn’t an Oil fan.

- Kyrou is a good young player, but he’s an RFA after this season. Does he pull the same Satoshi Nakamoto as Chucky and Gaudreau? Do we flip him for additional picks/assets if so? I don’t like it.
 

It bothered me to not see NJ on the list that was leaked because I feel that would be the best team to deal with (I know EF debunked it, but saying it’s not accurate isn’t telling enough. It could simply mean Vegas shouldn’t be on the list, and then there are fewer teams to deal with). I’m no psychic but with the East getting so much stronger and that NJ still has some growing to do, their 1st round pick will be more valuable than St. Loo’s. I also like the idea of Holtz and picks. I don’t want Tarasenko and Kyrou to help us just get in or just miss the playoffs. Let’s be real, if we want a chance in the playoffs, we can’t keep bringing a sword to a gun fight. Wake up and do what’s right for the franchise. We missed the playoffs the year before with Johnny and Chucky, I’d be just fine missing them this year and accumulating picks and weaponizing our cap space at the TDL. That would be exciting. 

[The_People1]

I feel the Flames want Mercer.  I believe they wanted to draft him but when he was taken one pick ahead of the Flames turn, the Flames began to trade down and eventually drafted Zary.  If NJ would be willing to move Mercer then the Flames would consider that heavily.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

I feel the Flames want Mercer.  I believe they wanted to draft him but when he was taken one pick ahead of the Flames turn, the Flames began to trade down and eventually drafted Zary.  If NJ would be willing to move Mercer then the Flames would consider that heavily.

I like Mercer’s all around game, but I am not sure he has that high end offensive ceiling that we should be targeting in this trade. I also see him ending up more as a winger than a center.

 

I am not going to be disappointed if we get Mercer in this trade, he just isn’t my first choice.

 

I really want a C or D with a high ceiling in this trade.

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, taz89 said:

Quite honestly, who cares what Tkatchuk wants, its what's best for the Flames.  Send him to Winnipeg I say.

Ideally yes but no team is gonna give up anything decent if they risk the chance of loosing him, has to be a team he’s sign long term with…I mean otherwise we are not having this discussion 

[MP5029]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

What a steal though. I would have loved Niederreiter

Yup agree! Perfect 2nd line LW…another miss by BT! 
 

god this is very frustrating as a fan, he needs to either go or have an incredible pan in place….but I don’t see any hint of a plan at the moment, all is see is him kinda wound licking 

[cross16]

1 minute ago, MP5029 said:

Yup agree! Perfect 2nd line LW…another miss by BT! 
 

god this is very frustrating as a fan, he needs to either go or have an incredible pan in place….but I don’t see any hint of a plan at the moment, all is see is him kinda wound licking 

 

Until Tkachuk is dealt it doesn't' really make sense to be targeting FAs. 

 

Nor do I think any are lining up to come here unless the Flames overpay (which they shoudlnt)

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, zima said:

So you guys think they would drop those players for MrT ? And your right I only follow the Flames I could care a less of the rest of the NHL so I don't know the qualitgy of other teams players and don't care. I highly doubt Dallas would give up all that for him.

 

 

I didn't read his proposal correctly.  I wouldn't do cap dumps for Tkachuk

[MP5029]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Until Tkachuk is dealt it doesn't' really make sense to be targeting FAs. 

 

Nor do I think any are lining up to come here unless the Flames overpay (which they shoudlnt)

Unfortunately yes..but they still need to ice a team…I guess the issue is, until they know exactly where Manji stands and Tachuck too it’s hard to say what to do…if all the UFAs only accept 1 year deals then the COA is to probably trade them all and rebuild/tool 

 

horrible place for the team to be in right now, and it boils down to having a GM who’s too much of a MR nice guy…kinda put us in this mess starting with Gaudreau…now Tachuck and possibly Manji…all 3 said at the seasons end they loved Cgy and would

 consider long term contracts…but when the Gaudreau left…everyone wants out, it’s like rats fleeing a sinking ship.

 

the only good thing out of this is we can see the real character of theses players and if that’s the way they are then it’s best that they all go and build a team with character and skill vs just skill…I think part in parcel that’s been the issue here for a while too many high skill players with little character base to comment and loyalty, so I guess that’s one thing positive is that the character can be added to the team.

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Bottom line is if St. Louis wants him, they’re gonna pay. I have no problem sending him anywhere else that he’s willing to sign. I really don’t see the fit with St. Louis and I struggle to see how they can make it worthwhile for us.
 

There’s only one scenario in my mind where it works: We aim for Thomas and we don’t let up on it. No tricks, no deception. I’d  keep Army involved in the process and be very candid and transparent about legitimate offers that are better than what he’s offering. I might even give him the last phone call before we pull the trigger on a deal elsewhere. And if we need to involve a third team to make the money work, we do so. I’m not a fan of the proposed trade involving St. Louis.
- Tarasenko is a 30 y/o, 1 year until UFA cap dump for St. Louis. I don’t care what he scored last year. If St. Louis wants Chucky who’s 23 for a 7-8 year contract, they’re not convincing me that Tank is a “valuable” add for us. No no, Tank is a valuable departure for you in a Chucky trade. If we have to take on Tank for you to get Chucky, you need to pay us to do that on top of what Chucky is worth. Other teams will pay for us to take on money to fit Chucky on their team. There won’t be an exception for St. Louis.
- St. Louis’ first round pick is going to suck next season. The west got weaker, and the Blues are about to get stronger with Chucky. Again, need to bring in more value here.

- Neighbours is about all I like in the proposed return. It does help that he’s from Alberta. Hopefully he wasn’t an Oil fan.

- Kyrou is a good young player, but he’s an RFA after this season. Does he pull the same Satoshi Nakamoto as Chucky and Gaudreau? Do we flip him for additional picks/assets if so? I don’t like it.
 

It bothered me to not see NJ on the list that was leaked because I feel that would be the best team to deal with (I know EF debunked it, but saying it’s not accurate isn’t telling enough. It could simply mean Vegas shouldn’t be on the list, and then there are fewer teams to deal with). I’m no psychic but with the East getting so much stronger and that NJ still has some growing to do, their 1st round pick will be more valuable than St. Loo’s. I also like the idea of Holtz and picks. I don’t want Tarasenko and Kyrou to help us just get in or just miss the playoffs. Let’s be real, if we want a chance in the playoffs, we can’t keep bringing a sword to a gun fight. Wake up and do what’s right for the franchise. We missed the playoffs the year before with Johnny and Chucky, I’d be just fine missing them this year and accumulating picks and weaponizing our cap space at the TDL. That would be exciting. 

 

First off, Kyrou is Canadian.  If he's worth it, he gets a good extension.  And we negotiate that as soon as possible.  He won't be able to walk an arbitration 1 year deal right to UFA.  

 

Second, the only way Tarasenko is in the mix is a cap dump and we are compensated accordingly.  He is an expiring contract that would have value to a contender or to a team where he will sign.  Think prospects and picks coming back.  We can even retain salary to make it work.  That's the only way it works.  But also remember, he is younger than Backlund and Kadri.  He has about 3 good years left at the least.  

 

But I do agree that STL is the least attractive to us due to their cap issues.  They don't need Tkachuk to be a contender.  They would like him.  But we don't go out of our way to make them better, unless they pay dearly.

[MP5029]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I didn't read his proposal correctly.  I wouldn't do cap dumps for Tkachuk

Well that depends…

 

if they are doing a re-tool on the fly than absolutely no cap dumps…

 

if they are gonna rebuild, then absolutely take cap dump salaries as they generate a much higher return, I’m just not sure what teams would be in that position with guys that aren’t locked in to long term bad contracts…1-2 year max id suggest.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Unfortunately yes..but they still need to ice a team…I guess the issue is, until they know exactly where Manji stands and Tachuck too it’s hard to say what to do…if all the UFAs only accept 1 year deals then the COA is to probably trade them all and rebuild/tool 

 

horrible place for the team to be in right now, and it boils down to having a GM who’s too much of a MR nice guy…kinda put us in this mess starting with Gaudreau…now Tachuck and possibly Manji…all 3 said at the seasons end they loved Cgy and would

 consider long term contracts…but when the Gaudreau left…everyone wants out, it’s like rats fleeing a sinking ship.

 

the only good thing out of this is we can see the real character of theses players and if that’s the way they are then it’s best that they all go and build a team with character and skill vs just skill…I think part in parcel that’s been the issue here for a while too many high skill players with little character base to comment and loyalty, so I guess that’s one thing positive is that the character can be added to the team.

 

I don't think it's an issue with being a Mr. Nice Guy.  Past performance of the team, attempts to make it better, failing in the playoffs, the city and rabid fans, the economy, the pandemic, and circumstance that happened all play a part.  All would have issues getting these two done this year.  Maybe some past dealings had an impact, but it's also a business.  

[MP5029]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

First off, Kyrou is Canadian.  If he's worth it, he gets a good extension.  And we negotiate that as soon as possible.  He won't be able to walk an arbitration 1 year deal right to UFA.  

 

Second, the only way Tarasenko is in the mix is a cap dump and we are compensated accordingly.  He is an expiring contract that would have value to a contender or to a team where he will sign.  Think prospects and picks coming back.  We can even retain salary to make it work.  That's the only way it works.  But also remember, he is younger than Backlund and Kadri.  He has about 3 good years left at the least.  

 

But I do agree that STL is the least attractive to us due to their cap issues.  They don't need Tkachuk to be a contender.  They would like him.  But we don't go out of our way to make them better, unless they pay dearly.

This!

 

but like you said they don’t need Tachuck…but kyrou and Tero for the reason you Said yes absolutely…KYRO being the prized asset coming back…Tero opens up some options later and having a decent player to fill a roster place.

 

BUT 

 

I don’t see why Stl would make that move? 

 

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I like Mercer’s all around game, but I am not sure he has that high end offensive ceiling that we should be targeting in this trade. I also see him ending up more as a winger than a center.

 

I am not going to be disappointed if we get Mercer in this trade, he just isn’t my first choice.

 

I really want a C or D with a high ceiling in this trade.

 

Even before Gaudreau left, I wanted to trade Tkachuk for a 2nd line C.  Mercer is not high end offense but should be 55 to 65-point range.  It might be good enough for what we are looking for.

 

The high end return may come with the 1st round pick that should come along with Mercer.

[JTech780]

There is no way that St. Louis is paying us to take Tarasenko lol. If they want to move him they will get plenty of takers. He is an elite goal scorer who put up 34 goals and 82 points in 74 games last year.

 

I could see a 3rd team being involved as far taking a player to make the cap work.