2022 Offseason

[JTech780]

Kasperi Kapanen is another name from Pittsburgh that’s probably available, though his agent really screwed up his last contract, his QO is less than $850k even though his AAV was $3.2m, so I am sure the Penguins are fine with taking him to arbitration.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm not the problem, I don't even work for the Flames.    This is just a chat forum.

 

But just so we're clear, it's you that can only view me one way, not me that can only see one path.   I go against your narrative so it's only natural to view me in the worst way possible.   

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-social-media-makes-us-more-polarized-and-how-to-fix-it/

 

It's well studied.  Just know that if you think you have me figured out, 

 

It's you  😅

 

 

For your notes:   I don't actually believe in rebuilds.  It's not my plan A and never was. 

 

I'd explain that, but I've already explained it in here for about 12+ years or whatever it's been.   Just know that.  You can't actually read what I'm writing if you're on the defensive before reading it.

 

Whatever. You didn't want Markstrom.  Your wanted to trade Gaudreau.  Now it seems that you want to trade Tkachuk because you have convinced yourself he is out and even if he wasn't, we can't build a team around him.  What does that signal?

[jjgallow]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Whatever. You didn't want Markstrom.  Your wanted to trade Gaudreau.  Now it seems that you want to trade Tkachuk because you have convinced yourself he is out and even if he wasn't, we can't build a team around him.  What does that signal?

 

That I want a strong organization which invests in its future by acquiring and developing promising young talent that actually wants to be here.  Which means realizing full value for those that don't.

 

I'm committed enough to not be terrified every time we run a risk of not winning a regular season game and wanting to compromise our future over it.

 

It's okay to be a fan that cares about more than the next 10 games.

[JTech780]

 

[JTech780]

 

[travel_dude]

Not surprised with Tkachuk.  Didn't make sense to have a hard deadline like that.  Nylander length negotiation at worst.  But he doesn't get stuck with a lower than $9M award.  He can accept, but that depends on  negotiations I guess.  Haven't heard anything about that.

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

Wow is this ownership?  They get it.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

Tkachuk's QO is already so high so didn't expect him to file.

[phoenix66]

27 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Tkachuk's QO is already so high so didn't expect him to file.

And just so I understand. If Friday passes and he doesn't sign the qo.  He's still an rfa he just loses his guaranteed contract until he signs somethung and the flames are no longer obligated to give him at least the $9m ?

[Thebrewcrew]

Should get some clarity on the future of the Flames this week.

 

If he takes the QO. The Flames have to look at trading him. Don't need the cloud of a star player on an expiring deal hanging over the team.

 

If he doesn't take it, that's a good sign for the Flames. 

 

I don't worry at all about an offersheet. Right now I think the Flames are willing to pay Tkachuk 9+, just given the state of that QO. 

Everyone worries about NJ, they can't offersheet Tkachuk, at least successfully. They don't have the picks to throw an offersheet in the 8.4-10.5 bracket. Even then I think it would take the four 1st's to get the Flames to walk away. Nobody would offersheet Tkachuk for 1yr, that's simply too risky. Especially at a minimum cost of two 1st's a 2nd and 3rd.

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Hey TBC. Thanks for sharing this. The middle ground is where we’ve been for a long time, and it’s a death trap. It’s hard enough for us to attract players AND keep them, so at least from my perspective it makes sense to “grow our own players” in our market. It’s one of the few ways we can extend team control, and maybe have players grow roots and want to stay and compete in Calgary. I’m not saying Calgary is all doom and gloom - all I’m saying is I’d be willing to go this route to TRY to build a perennial contender. There are no guarantees in sport - this method doesn’t guarantee us Stanley Cups. But I do think it would give us annual opportunities to compete for a cup over a larger window of time. 

[LouCifer]

29 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Everyone worries about NJ, they can't offersheet Tkachuk, at least successfully. They don't have the picks to throw an offersheet in the 8.4-10.5 bracket. Even then I think it would take the four 1st's to get the Flames to walk away. Nobody would offersheet Tkachuk for 1yr, that's simply too risky. Especially at a minimum cost of two 1st's a 2nd and 3rd.

They traded away their 3rd round pick just yesterday, in the John Marino trade with Pittsburgh. Prior to that, it was justified that NJ could offer sheet Chucky. Now, there is no opportunity for NJ to do that unless they’re going 4 x 1st round picks which they won’t do. 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, LouCifer said:

They traded away their 3rd round pick just yesterday, in the John Marino trade with Pittsburgh. Prior to that, it was justified that NJ could offer sheet Chucky. Now, there is no opportunity for NJ to do that unless they’re going 4 x 1st round picks which they won’t do. 

 

If NJ was planning to trade the 2OA+ for Tkachuk then why not 4 firsts?  With Tkachuk and their teams development trajectory, they should be in the mix for a playoff spot.

 

Remember the Flames once tried to trade 3 firsts for the 1OA and it didn't work.

 

Another thing is, anything under $10.5-mil the Flames will match.  We have all the cap space in the world now.  It will have to be over $10.5-mil and 4 first rounders for the Flames to consider taking the 4 picks.

 

I do believe Tkachuk would be willing to sign to leave because it's most likely a 5-year deal and Tkachuk would love to be UFA again at 29-years-old so he can score one more big pay day.

[LouCifer]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

If NJ was planning to trade the 2OA+ for Tkachuk then why not 4 firsts?  With Tkachuk and their teams development trajectory, they should be in the mix for a playoff spot.

 

Remember the Flames once tried to trade 3 firsts for the 1OA and it didn't work.

 

Another thing is, anything under $10.5-mil the Flames will match.  We have all the cap space in the world now.  It will have to be over $10.5-mil and 4 first rounders for the Flames to consider taking the 4 picks.

 

I do believe Tkachuk would be willing to sign to leave because it's most likely a 5-year deal and Tkachuk would love to be UFA again at 29-years-old so he can score one more big pay day.

Well it was just my opinion that they wouldn’t. I’m no expert on NJ but I don’t think they’re in a spot to run for cups starting this season. There’s some growth to be realized yet imo. But, I will say I’d be all for the 4 x 1sts for Chucky. The East is going to be a beast next season with all of the players that have moved East, which bodes well for those 1st round picks being slotted in decent spots. 

[conundrumed]

Hopefully some clarity can start happening soon. Sure BT can use all the time he wants, but he's been in shackles since the season ended. This "11th hour for a better deal" thing that he always runs with has to end.

It's nothing but high risk and little reward, causes too much friction and really has a negative impact on cap management.

If this is happening again, it's likely time to part ways. It just doesn't work. It's like every contract has to be steeped in procrastination.

I mentioned a few seasons ago that this is a horrible technique, yet here we are with the same technique, more than likely.

What other GM leaves himself zero time to deal with other stuff? Time is money.

Even Nurse you can say is overpaid by $1.5-2. But Holland can move on and focus on other areas.

Zito got Barkov done last year at $10 x 8 starting this year. Done, off of his plate, move on.

Is BT going to keep dragging every negotiation all of the time?

[cross16]

12 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

And just so I understand. If Friday passes and he doesn't sign the qo.  He's still an rfa he just loses his guaranteed contract until he signs somethung and the flames are no longer obligated to give him at least the $9m ?

 

While correct I would say this is extremely unlikely to happen. 

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Hopefully some clarity can start happening soon. Sure BT can use all the time he wants, but he's been in shackles since the season ended. This "11th hour for a better deal" thing that he always runs with has to end.

It's nothing but high risk and little reward, causes too much friction and really has a negative impact on cap management.

If this is happening again, it's likely time to part ways. It just doesn't work. It's like every contract has to be steeped in procrastination.

I mentioned a few seasons ago that this is a horrible technique, yet here we are with the same technique, more than likely.

What other GM leaves himself zero time to deal with other stuff? Time is money.

Even Nurse you can say is overpaid by $1.5-2. But Holland can move on and focus on other areas.

Zito got Barkov done last year at $10 x 8 starting this year. Done, off of his plate, move on.

Is BT going to keep dragging every negotiation all of the time?

 

I don't know exactly when the RFA's were allowed to be negotiated with.  I suspect it was January 1st.  If that was the case, why are we seeing three RFA's?  Was that their decision to hold off?  If so, then BT really isn't at fault with THOSE ones.  JH contract is a fail.  

 

I'm frustrated because we went from knowing that JH wasn't signing to doing....nothing.  Were we so all in that there wasn't even a consideration of a plan B?  Or is it just radio silent and we didn't have accepted offers for any of the first ones to go?  It may not be fair to say that, but it just feels like BT was so taken back, that he is frozen.    

[JTech780]

Right now Treliving has to be negotiating on two fronts. One he has to be working on a long term deal with Tkachuk as there is just absolutely no way he can let this get to Friday and risk having Tkachuk sign the QO. Two he has to be gauging the trade market for Tkachuk, if he gets an inclination that Tkachuk isn’t going to sign long term then he has to move him before that QO is signed. 
 

As soon as that QO is signed is trade value plummet’s. Right now he is an RFA under team control, if he signs the QO he is a pending UFA. That drastically changes the trade value.

 

Personally I would move him, because I think his next deal is going to be more than what we want to pay, and I think having another player walk in a year would be extremely harmful to this franchise in a lot of ways.

[cross16]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

Right now Treliving has to be negotiating on two fronts. One he has to be working on a long term deal with Tkachuk as there is just absolutely no way he can let this get to Friday and risk having Tkachuk sign the QO. Two he has to be gauging the trade market for Tkachuk, if he gets an inclination that Tkachuk isn’t going to sign long term then he has to move him before that QO is signed. 
 

As soon as that QO is signed is trade value plummet’s. Right now he is an RFA under team control, if he signs the QO he is a pending UFA. That drastically changes the trade value.

 

Personally I would move him, because I think his next deal is going to be more than what we want to pay, and I think having another player walk in a year would be extremely harmful to this franchise in a lot of ways.

 

I'm not sure I'm agreeing with the logic here as any team trying to acquire Tkachuk inherits the same situation as the Flames. The only advantage you have to acquiring him now, vs post Friday is a few days worth to take to him about an extension but how does that increase your leverage? Tkachuk can still do the same thing to the new team he could do to the Flames "pay me this or i'm taking my QO" and i'm not sure a few days changes that negotiation strategy. 

 

For me i'm not that concerned about Friday. It gives you some clarity sure but I think the Flames can still work both angels with Tkachuk throughout the summer. My deadline would be camp, you cannot let Tkachuk make it to camp with just the 1 year offer signed IMO. 

 

[cross16]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't know exactly when the RFA's were allowed to be negotiated with.  I suspect it was January 1st.  If that was the case, why are we seeing three RFA's?  Was that their decision to hold off?  If so, then BT really isn't at fault with THOSE ones.  JH contract is a fail.  

 

I'm frustrated because we went from knowing that JH wasn't signing to doing....nothing.  Were we so all in that there wasn't even a consideration of a plan B?  Or is it just radio silent and we didn't have accepted offers for any of the first ones to go?  It may not be fair to say that, but it just feels like BT was so taken back, that he is frozen.    

 

I don't really understand this logic though, What was Plan B suppose to be? What is Plan B when an elite offensive talent walks for nothing and there really isn't anything on the FA market that can come close to replacing him? What did people expect or want plan B to be?

 

Once Forsberg signed in Nashville I think your Plan B was gone as that was really the only talent available that could have realistically had a chance to "replace" what you lost in Gaudreau and fit the age range. Since then what deals are they missing out on?

 

Aside from the rebuild or not decision (which I am very confident is not up to Treliving) your plan now is you got to keep what you have. External upgrades are secondary at this point until you get those guys locked up. That becomes the plan. 

[JTech780]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'm not sure I'm agreeing with the logic here as any team trying to acquire Tkachuk inherits the same situation as the Flames. The only advantage you have to acquiring him now, vs post Friday is a few days worth to take to him about an extension but how does that increase your leverage? Tkachuk can still do the same thing to the new team he could do to the Flames "pay me this or i'm taking my QO" and i'm not sure a few days changes that negotiation strategy. 

 

For me i'm not that concerned about Friday. It gives you some clarity sure but I think the Flames can still work both angels with Tkachuk throughout the summer. My deadline would be camp, you cannot let Tkachuk make it to camp with just the 1 year offer signed IMO. 

 

Once he signs the QO the Flames can’t sign him to a long term extension till January.

[JTech780]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'm not sure I'm agreeing with the logic here as any team trying to acquire Tkachuk inherits the same situation as the Flames. The only advantage you have to acquiring him now, vs post Friday is a few days worth to take to him about an extension but how does that increase your leverage? Tkachuk can still do the same thing to the new team he could do to the Flames "pay me this or i'm taking my QO" and i'm not sure a few days changes that negotiation strategy. 

 

For me i'm not that concerned about Friday. It gives you some clarity sure but I think the Flames can still work both angels with Tkachuk throughout the summer. My deadline would be camp, you cannot let Tkachuk make it to camp with just the 1 year offer signed IMO. 

 

I agree with what you are saying, but if you let the team acquiring him talk to Tkachuk and see if it’s a place he would like to go, or if it’s a place he can work out a long term deal then it becomes a better situation for a trade.

[cross16]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

Once he signs the QO the Flames can’t sign him to a long term extension till January.

 

I am aware, but even with a signed QO it's not like extension talks stop. 

 

For me this comes down to leverage and right now Tkachuk has the leverage and i'm not sure a team acquiring him now vs next week gains any so why would the trade value change so much. 

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

I am aware, but even with a signed QO it's not like extension talks stop. 

 

For me this comes down to leverage and right now Tkachuk has the leverage and i'm not sure a team acquiring him now vs next week gains any so why would the trade value change so much. 

Right now he doesn’t have a deal in place, once that is locked in his trade value decreases. It limits what a team can do.  Regardless of timing Tkachuk has the leverage.

 

Treliving can’t let the same thing that just happened with Gaudreau, happen with Tkachuk. 
 

I also think Tkachuk is smart enough to know that if he plays here next year, he isn’t going to be negotiating as a 100 point player that he is this off season. It’s in his best interest to get a long term deal done this year. He just has to decide if he wants to be in Calgary long term, and if he doesn’t then a trade is his best avenue.