2022 Offseason

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I agree.. but i go back to it doesn't matter what he wants... I could see Toronto pitching a good package .they're the most desperate win now team in the league .. Nylander for sure ..tho after I saw him skate away from a puck in the corner in the playoffs he might give Sutter a stroke ..  and I still feel the issue in the dressing room was between Gio and tkachuk after the puck flip..incident 

 

No it doesn't matter where he wants to go but I think it's highly unlikely your going to get your best trade package from a team that has no chance of keeping him long term. Maybe but i seriously seriously doubt it. Dubas isn't going to give you Nylander for Tkachuk without knowing that Tkachuk wants to stay. 

 

It isn't about sending Tkachuk where he wants it's about maximizing your return. I believe strongly that the best way to do that is to send him to a place where he will extend. 

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

No it doesn't matter where he wants to go but I think it's highly unlikely your going to get your best trade package from a team that has no chance of keeping him long term. 

In theory yes..but these teams also might play hardball throwing anchors thinking they can just scoop him cheaper at the TDL and these other teams might pony up the better offers so they can try and score at the TDL themselves ..   or , like a Toronto, they only care about this year .

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Here you go.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-could-add-matthew-tkachuk-massive-trade/

 

Not sure how it even makes sense.  Bertuzzi's vax status would be an issue would it not?

The funny thing is they say $10M per year.  Yikes.

So let's break this down.lol

Players that are available from Detroit regardless of Tkachuk:

Bertuzzi (unvaccinated)

Zadina - 3rd liner so far...

Suter - redundant 3C in the D

Johannson (tons of D prospects).

They're proposing:

"Detroit Red Wings receive: Matthew Tkachuk (with an agreed-upon 8-year extension likely around $10M/year)

Calgary Flames receive: Tyler Bertuzzi, Albert Johansson, Filip Zadina, 2024 1st (unprotected)"

 

This is a horrible deal for Calgary. Here Calgary, take the stuff we don't really need anymore for your star.

'24 unprotected 1st?lol Detroit's turning into a good team, 2 years they'll be proving it.

THWs come up with stupid Satoshi Nakamoto constantly.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

All of the rumors are that the primary motivation here is Tkachuk wants to be in the US. I don't think you'll see him go to a Canadian team. As i've said before the best way to maximize value here is to work with the team on a sign and trade, it's really the only way I see them getting a great return. 

 

I think part of this is the Flames should be very open to taking a bad contract in return if it maximizes the return. If St Louis wants to get rid of Tarasenko great, give him to us and the price will go up.  Weaponize your cap space. If Dallas wants to dump Khudobin or even Benn i think you have to be open to that. 

 

Flames have a weapon now in their cap space and should 100% be using it to better their situation if they can. 

 

For sure, if you can use the cap space to make the deal better, do it.  STL has to move a player like Tarasenko just to make it work.  As you say, that doesn't become part of the return only, it involves them paying for it in the trade.  STL is not ideal unless we get the players we want. 

 

The shorter term cap dumps would be easier.  They allow a team to do thing, not just make the trade.  Benn would be strategic.  They are stuck with a couple of big ones lasting too long.  Khudobin is a complete waste, though I guess they could play him.  He was just okay a few years back.  FLA doesn't exactly have cap dumps other than Hornqvist.  He has a 8 team list. 

 

We have never weaponized the cap.  We need to be open to expiring contracts that could be flipped at TDL to get a decent pick.  Should be able to make the trades to get those players now and not cost anything significant.  

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

So let's break this down.lol

Players that are available from Detroit regardless of Tkachuk:

Bertuzzi (unvaccinated)

Zadina - 3rd liner so far...

Suter - redundant 3C in the D

Johannson (tons of D prospects).

They're proposing:

"Detroit Red Wings receive: Matthew Tkachuk (with an agreed-upon 8-year extension likely around $10M/year)

Calgary Flames receive: Tyler Bertuzzi, Albert Johansson, Filip Zadina, 2024 1st (unprotected)"

 

This is a horrible deal for Calgary. Here Calgary, take the stuff we don't really need anymore for your star.

'24 unprotected 1st?lol Detroit's turning into a good team, 2 years they'll be proving it.

THWs come up with stupid Satoshi Nakamoto constantly.

 

Didn't say I liked it.  This was the worst of a couple of suggestions I have seen, but I couldn't find the other one.  It still included Bertuzzi, which makes no sense at all.  

[cross16]

I get positional value and everything but if Kyrou is on the table he's a wicked add. 

 

Hard for me to picture the Flames getting a better piece than this. You would be hoping the prospects you acquire get to this level, let alone exceed it. 

 

 

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I get positional value and everything but if Kyrou is on the table he's a wicked add. 

 

Hard for me to picture the Flames getting a better piece than this. You would be hoping the prospects you acquire get to this level, let alone exceed it. 

 

 

I preferred Brian Elliot....sorry, couldn't resist.

[cross16]

Just now, conundrumed said:

I preferred Brian Elliot....sorry, couldn't resist.

 

uncool..... VERY uncool......

 

😉

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I get positional value and everything but if Kyrou is on the table he's a wicked add. 

 

Hard for me to picture the Flames getting a better piece than this. You would be hoping the prospects you acquire get to this level, let alone exceed it. 

 

 

Yep he's the key piece for me in any st Louis deal 

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Yep he's the key piece for me in any st Louis deal 

 

And on the flip side of that, if St Louis isn't offering Kyrou then they are out IMO. 

 

St Louis needs to be offering either Kyrou or Thomas (which they wont') and if they don't Flames move on. 

[phoenix66]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

And on the flip side of that, if St Louis isn't offering Kyrou then they are out IMO. 

 

St Louis needs to be offering either Kyrou or Thomas (which they wont') and if they don't Flames move on. 

Agreed. He's the Start and finish for sure .. if we have to be creative and get Tarasenko too so be it.. that wouid be my ask if they won't leave the 1st unprotected 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

And on the flip side of that, if St Louis isn't offering Kyrou then they are out IMO. 

 

For sure it has to be a young player.  Buchnevich is a 27 year old and seems to be a bit of a playmaker.  Also scoring pretty well.  Not instead of Kyrou.  As an additional piece.  That would be my add if they "stuck" us with Tarasenko's contract.  We might have to include Dube to have positional spaces free.  Not that I like sending Dube out.  

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

For sure it has to be a young player.  Buchnevich is a 27 year old and seems to be a bit of a playmaker.  Also scoring pretty well.  Not instead of Kyrou.  As an additional piece.  That would be my add if they "stuck" us with Tarasenko's contract.  We might have to include Dube to have positional spaces free.  Not that I like sending Dube out.  

not a bad take.. also considering he was a member of that Junior team,.. i know he put out a statement , and id have a hard time believing he was part of it .. but they all put out statements, so somebody is lying...   and after Peters , this whole offseason .. it would be just our luck  when names finally get announced .. and aside from that in the right deal he is expendable anyway 

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

And on the flip side of that, if St Louis isn't offering Kyrou then they are out IMO. 

 

St Louis needs to be offering either Kyrou or Thomas (which they wont') and if they don't Flames move on. 

Yup. Thomas is my preference, and there is no way that they're parting with him.

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

For sure it has to be a young player.  Buchnevich is a 27 year old and seems to be a bit of a playmaker.  Also scoring pretty well.  Not instead of Kyrou.  As an additional piece.  That would be my add if they "stuck" us with Tarasenko's contract.  We might have to include Dube to have positional spaces free.  Not that I like sending Dube out.  

Kyrou, Buchnevich and Tarasenko? What?lol

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Kyrou, Buchnevich and Tarasenko? What?lol

 

Reach for the stars, end up on the moon.

Buchnevich a bit of a stretch of course.  

If it's Kyrou and Tarasenko, then it has to be sweetened.

I know they might be able to trade Tank separately, but it's a tough trade for a pending UFA.

Only so many places he signs next year.

[sak22]

 

Might make a potential Nashville deal more unfavorable as they will need to offload a bigger salary now.

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

Might make a potential Nashville deal more unfavorable as they will need to offload a bigger salary now.

Everything else aside that’s a great deal for one of the more underrated wingers in the league.

[The_People1]

55 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I get positional value and everything but if Kyrou is on the table he's a wicked add. 

 

Hard for me to picture the Flames getting a better piece than this. You would be hoping the prospects you acquire get to this level, let alone exceed it. 

 

 

 

Kyrou is too vanilla for me but looking around at what players are available out there, Kyrou may be the biggest name.  I feel no matter what, we must get a 1st round pick in next summer's draft.  If it's truly as deep as some make it sound then we should be able to draft a solid player even in the 20s.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

This is a horrible deal for Calgary. Here Calgary, take the stuff we don't really need anymore for your star.

 

All I'm seeing is junk for Tkachuk.  Haven't seen one good proposal outside from maybe Mercer + 1st for Tkachuk.  I'll take NJ's 1st next year as it could be top 10 again.  Mercer is Backlund-level two-way Center.  Young and so much room to grow.

[The_People1]

Leafs fans want to trade us Nylander straight up for Tkachuk.

[travel_dude]

If we are looking for a draft pick in 2023, then we should be dealing with NJ.  They seem to be moving on from Severson.  If we aske for Mercer, Severson and a 1st, would that be reasonable?  Or should we just be asking only for Hischier.  

[travel_dude]

Just now, The_People1 said:

Leafs fans want to trade us Nylander straight up for Tkachuk.

 

Heard Marner straight up as well.  Nylander would be a complete fail on our side.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

If we are looking for a draft pick in 2023, then we should be dealing with NJ.  They seem to be moving on from Severson.  If we aske for Mercer, Severson and a 1st, would that be reasonable?  Or should we just be asking only for Hischier.  

 

I would be happy with that trade.  It's a combination good move for short term and long term.

 

Severson is a good short term add and probably leaves for UFA next summer  RHS RD who put up 40-points... Maybe he's a PP option and we need that.  He can also take Gudbranson's spot on the depth chart.  Pushes Meloche to 7th D and gives us RHS RD depth.

 

Mercer is a good short term and long term add.  He's safe.  He's an upgrade over Backlund for 2nd line two-way Center next season.  Don't think he's 1st line material but he's a mini-Backlund v2.0 who should bring more offense.  Backlund slides down to 3rd C (unless he's requested a trade).

 

And the NJ 1st round pick in 2023 could be anywhere from 5 to 20.  If the draft is truly deep then we could add a key piece for the future.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I would be happy with that trade.  It's a combination good move for short term and long term.

 

Severson is a good short term add and probably leaves for UFA next summer  RHS RD who put up 40-points... Maybe he's a PP option and we need that.  He can also take Gudbranson's spot on the depth chart.  Pushes Meloche to 7th D and gives us RHS RD depth.

 

Mercer is a good short term and long term add.  He's safe.  He's an upgrade over Backlund for 2nd line two-way Center next season.  Don't think he's 1st line material but he's a mini-Backlund v2.0 who should bring more offense.  Backlund slides down to 3rd C (unless he's requested a trade).

 

And the NJ 1st round pick in 2023 could be anywhere from 5 to 20.  If the draft is truly deep then we could add a key piece for the future.

 

Listening to a Devils podcast.  They were discussing a trade with NJ.  Hughes is really the only one off the tables.  They seem to think that the 2023 1st is absolute unless it's Hischier on the table.  Obviously, Nico is my preference for a player coming.