2022 Offseason

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't think we want to take that chance because it's a win-now trade for us.  As long as Gaudreau is back, and we add Chabot as a #1 LD, then the loss of Tkachuk should be balanced by the gain of Chabot.  We should be a contender again.

 

Sanderson fits the Sens timeline being the Sens are a bit younger overall.  Sanderson also is said to have a higher ceiling than Chabot so its a gamble the Sens should take.  We shouldn't take that gamble.  We are contenders since yesterday.  The Sens will be legit Cup contenders in about 3 years.

 

Again, they would want Hanifin to help them fill a gap to bridge to Sanderson as their #1.  Meanwhile, we can just bring back Kylington for a Kylington-Tanev 2nd pair... or go Zadorov - Tanev second pair.  Chabot will play 25+ minutes for us and play a big role in all situations. 

The massive what should we do stumbling block.

My question, does Tkachuk's QO acceptance date come before Johnny's signing deadline before JG becomes UFA?

I think it does, so are these 2 things attached, perhaps?

In other words, does Tkachuk come 1st, then Johnny?

Will one impact the other?

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

The massive what should we do stumbling block.

My question, does Tkachuk's QO acceptance date come before Johnny's signing deadline before JG becomes UFA?

I think it does, so are these 2 things attached, perhaps?

In other words, does Tkachuk come 1st, then Johnny?

Will one impact the other?

The Flames just have to submit the QO before the deadline, which is before free agency. Tkachuk could sign that 1yr deal in September if he really wanted to.

[conundrumed]

59 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Flames just have to submit the QO before the deadline, which is before free agency. Tkachuk could sign that 1yr deal in September if he really wanted to.

Really? I didn't expect that. I was under the assumption the QO had to be accepted in a quicker timeline and move fwd from there on extension. Has this changed recently? Or am I out to lunch? I like lunch.lol

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Really? I didn't expect that. I was under the assumption the QO had to be accepted in a quicker timeline and move fwd from there on extension. Has this changed recently? Or am I out to lunch? I like lunch.lol

All the Flames have to do is submit the QO to retain the rights on the player, if they don't they become a UFA. The QO is rarely accepted, the most recent example was Mang before 19/20, because he had no leverage he was sort of forced into it.

 

Mangiapane, Tkachuk and Kylington will all file for arbitration, which will set a definite timeline. None of these players will be unsigned in September. Someone like a Ruzicka could, in theory be unsigned late into the offseason because he has no arb rights and may not necessarily want the QO #. 

[travel_dude]

17 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Zadorov came to play in the playoffs.  Broken ribs and all.  He was a warrior.

 

If OTT trades Chabot then OTT will want Hanifin to help shelter Jake Sanderson and buy him time.  We don't need Hanifin because Chabot takes his spot and minutes.  Then we turn around to sign Zadorov without giving up any assets.  It comes down to Kylington vs Zadorov pairing with Tanev and I'm going with Zadorov.  It's a toss up there and you can argue either way.  Zadorov brings more physicality that we need in the playoffs.

 

Like I said, I have no issues with Zaddy, but there was 82 games before the playoffs.  They didn't use Zaddy with Tanev for a reason.  Would prefer to keep him around.  

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Really? I didn't expect that. I was under the assumption the QO had to be accepted in a quicker timeline and move fwd from there on extension. Has this changed recently? Or am I out to lunch? I like lunch.lol

The QO has to be issued by entry draft date (July 7-8).

If a player has not signed the QO, that player can be signed to an offer sheet.

The dates are a little messed up due to the late season start.

In the old world, a player can sign an OS starting July 1st.

One would expect that to be the date of free agency, July 13th.

 

The offer sheets are so rare, so I doubt it's much of a worry.

 

To me, the most likely outcome is Gaudreau signs by July 13th and Tkachuk after that.

Tkachuk will file for arbitration, along with the other guys.

It will just move BT along in getting them done.

 

Not sure if there is a lot of talk between JH's agent and BT.

An offer presented and waiting for a counter.

As long as BT went in with a strong offer, it should go well. 

[LouCifer]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't think we want to take that chance because it's a win-now trade for us.  As long as Gaudreau is back, and we add Chabot as a #1 LD, then the loss of Tkachuk should be balanced by the gain of Chabot.  We should be a contender again.

 

Sanderson fits the Sens timeline being the Sens are a bit younger overall.  Sanderson also is said to have a higher ceiling than Chabot so its a gamble the Sens should take.  We shouldn't take that gamble.  We are contenders since yesterday.  The Sens will be legit Cup contenders in about 3 years.

 

Again, they would want Hanifin to help them fill a gap to bridge to Sanderson as their #1.  Meanwhile, we can just bring back Kylington for a Kylington-Tanev 2nd pair... or go Zadorov - Tanev second pair.  Chabot will play 25+ minutes for us and play a big role in all situations. 

It bothers me that I can’t “like” yours and TD’s posts. I’m surprised that wasn’t changed with the recent board update. 
 

That said, I’m completely in agreement with you. If OTT is going to deal Chabot they’ll most likely want someone to slot in who is on a pretty team-friendly deal considering what they’ll have to pay to sign Chucky. Even with my homer glasses on, I see this as a big opportunity and win for OTT. Who we get back for Hanifin is the question. Might be a winger because Chucky is one, but I’d hope for Norris. 
 

Speaking out loud, I wonder if OTT would be more interested in a trade for Chucky if we included both Hanifin AND Kylington (RFA rights) for Chabot and Norris. Like you said Peeps, I like Zad too and feel he hasn’t reached his potential yet - something I believe he can do under Sutter. So I’d try to bring him and Gud back, and we have Mackey to maybe try out to round out the D. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Just looking at NJ's roster. They're a really small group of forwards.

 

If they sign Gaudreau, how many teams will be rolling out a line where all three players are below 6'? Gaudreau-Hughes-Bratt.

 

Zacha's the biggest forward they have and it seems like they're ready to move on from him. 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Just looking at NJ's roster. They're a really small group of forwards.

 

If they sign Gaudreau, how many teams will be rolling out a line where all three players are below 6'? Gaudreau-Hughes-Bratt.

 

Zacha's the biggest forward they have and it seems like they're ready to move on from him. 

 

That's why they want/need Tkachuk. We need Tkachuk too but we need a #1LD as well.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, LouCifer said:

It bothers me that I can’t “like” yours and TD’s posts. I’m surprised that wasn’t changed with the recent board update. 
 

That said, I’m completely in agreement with you. If OTT is going to deal Chabot they’ll most likely want someone to slot in who is on a pretty team-friendly deal considering what they’ll have to pay to sign Chucky. Even with my homer glasses on, I see this as a big opportunity and win for OTT. Who we get back for Hanifin is the question. Might be a winger because Chucky is one, but I’d hope for Norris. 
 

Speaking out loud, I wonder if OTT would be more interested in a trade for Chucky if we included both Hanifin AND Kylington (RFA rights) for Chabot and Norris. Like you said Peeps, I like Zad too and feel he hasn’t reached his potential yet - something I believe he can do under Sutter. So I’d try to bring him and Gud back, and we have Mackey to maybe try out to round out the D. 

 

Norris is their #1 Center.  I think he's getting $7-mil x 8... (Nick Suzuki type money).  OTT not going to trade him.

[LouCifer]

36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Norris is their #1 Center.  I think he's getting $7-mil x 8... (Nick Suzuki type money).  OTT not going to trade him.

Gotcha.
 

Well, today I went looking into Chabot’s stats and analytics - and even taking into consideration that he plays for OTT, he was very underwhelming to me. I mean, Hanifin has identical or better stats outside of TOI, plus I’m concerned about Chabot’s durability because he hasn’t played a full NHL season almost ever! Furthermore, the sheer amount of giveaways he’s responsible for, for a dman making $8M, are absolutely atrocious. Statistically and analytically alone, he doesn’t appear to be the 1D we’re looking for. 
 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, LouCifer said:

Gotcha.
 

Well, today I went looking into Chabot’s stats and analytics - and even taking into consideration that he plays for OTT, he was very underwhelming to me. I mean, Hanifin has identical or better stats outside of TOI, plus I’m concerned about Chabot’s durability because he hasn’t played a full NHL season almost ever! Furthermore, the sheer amount of giveaways he’s responsible for, for a dman making $8M, are absolutely atrocious. Statistically and analytically alone, he doesn’t appear to be the 1D we’re looking for. 
 

 

Chabot had an average season and the injuries are a concern.  He broke his hand in March and it ended his season but I'm not sure if it required surgery or not.  I didn't follow closely but hopefully it didn't require surgery.

 

In terms of stats and analytics, I have taken a look at this,

https://moneypuck.com/stats.htm

 

Chabot scores fairly well for offensive stats.  Yes, the giveaways rank very high but Josi and Heiskanen rank even worse.  Hanifin has more Defensive Zone Giveaways (but more games played of course).  The thing to understand with Chabot is he leads every rush when he's on the ice.  He's the main play driver when he's playing and entering the offensive zones.  He's creative and that comes with some misses.  He was only -3 on a very bad OTT team.

 

Generally speaking, he passes the IQ/eyeball tests and has good defensive awareness.  Smarter than Hanifin.

 

Again, I don't think Hanifin is a horrible Dman and he scores well in analytics.  But he's just a second pairing talent.  If we can keep him for the second pairing then we should.  But we shouldn't hesitate to trade him if an upgrade requires him to be a part of the trade.

[conundrumed]

Stupid Adam Fox...but could we afford him? What makes Chychrun better than Chabot is cap hit.

[travel_dude]

It's a tough choice for this summer for me.

Hanifin was good regular season.

Kylington was awesome for half the year.

Zaddy and Guddy pretty darn good and made our identity known.

Would a year of growth from Kyl offset the not getting any better Hanifin?

Hanifin and Kylington have opened a few eyes out there.

Their ceiling (in my mind) are basically the same; 3/4D.

 

I'm not as big a Chabot fan as others.

Looking for a 2/3D at worst.

Don't want to use Tkachuk to get there.

We don't have a replacement.

 

Ruuta might be a replacement for Guddy if he doesn't sign.

Or even a short term replacement for Tanev.

Other than that I want a top D.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Stupid Adam Fox...but could we afford him? What makes Chychrun better than Chabot is cap hit.

 

If we want Chabot, then we need to send them Monahan ++ to make it work for us.

Monahan + Hanifin, if you like.

Add from there, but don't strip the team.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

If we want Chabot, then we need to send them Monahan ++ to make it work for us.

Monahan + Hanifin, if you like.

Add from there, but don't strip the team.

As I was saying in the other thread, D fans have a healthy appetite to take Mony and a 2nd as a cap dump.

Don't know if Stevie does, but the D's fanbase is very knowledgeable and well aware of Mony's struggles.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

As I was saying in the other thread, D fans have a healthy appetite to take Mony and a 2nd as a cap dump.

Don't know if Stevie does, but the D's fanbase is very knowledgeable and well aware of Mony's struggles.

From what I get, they are wanting to move Zadina.  Is that your understanding?

I think DET would benefit from Monahan, but then I would have to become more of a Wings fan.

 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

As I was saying in the other thread, D fans have a healthy appetite to take Mony and a 2nd as a cap dump.

Don't know if Stevie does, but the D's fanbase is very knowledgeable and well aware of Mony's struggles.

I’ve said myself that Stevie Y’s history suggests he’d be interested in Mony and potentially flipping him at the TDL for additional assets. Hopefully it wouldn’t cost us our 2nd. Perhaps there’s another team out there that could use his salary to reach the cap floor and take a chance on a former 30 goal scoring C. 
 

However, this off-season really comes down to Gaudreau. If he decides to leave, we should hold on to Mony ourselves to flip him at the TDL and I firmly believe we should still deal Chucky to the highest bidder to help retool this team. Toff and Hanifin could be dealt as well to the highest bidders, but we should hold on to Mange and Andersson. We could also take on some ugly contracts in their final year for additional picks in the upcoming deep draft. Again, this is just my scorched earth scenario. Competing for Bedard would be difficult with the state of ARZ, BUF, MTL. 

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I’ve said myself that Stevie Y’s history suggests he’d be interested in Mony and potentially flipping him at the TDL for additional assets. Hopefully it wouldn’t cost us our 2nd. Perhaps there’s another team out there that could use his salary to reach the cap floor and take a chance on a former 30 goal scoring C. 
 

However, this off-season really comes down to Gaudreau. If he decides to leave, we should hold on to Mony ourselves to flip him at the TDL and I firmly believe we should still deal Chucky to the highest bidder to help retool this team. Toff and Hanifin could be dealt as well to the highest bidders, but we should hold on to Mange and Andersson. We could also take on some ugly contracts in their final year for additional picks in the upcoming deep draft. Again, this is just my scorched earth scenario. Competing for Bedard would be difficult with the state of ARZ, BUF, MTL. 

 

At the very least Monahan is a TDL asset that could get back to decent form.

But the cost to keep him is losing Lucic.

[flames for life]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Chabot had an average season and the injuries are a concern.  He broke his hand in March and it ended his season but I'm not sure if it required surgery or not.  I didn't follow closely but hopefully it didn't require surgery.

 

In terms of stats and analytics, I have taken a look at this,

https://moneypuck.com/stats.htm

 

Chabot scores fairly well for offensive stats.  Yes, the giveaways rank very high but Josi and Heiskanen rank even worse.  Hanifin has more Defensive Zone Giveaways (but more games played of course).  The thing to understand with Chabot is he leads every rush when he's on the ice.  He's the main play driver when he's playing and entering the offensive zones.  He's creative and that comes with some misses.  He was only -3 on a very bad OTT team.

 

Generally speaking, he passes the IQ/eyeball tests and has good defensive awareness.  Smarter than Hanifin.

 

Again, I don't think Hanifin is a horrible Dman and he scores well in analytics.  But he's just a second pairing talent.  If we can keep him for the second pairing then we should.  But we shouldn't hesitate to trade him if an upgrade requires him to be a part of the trade.

Would his being the main play driver a positive or a negative in this situation?  If the idea is to replace no. 1 left D, doesn’t that work against Anderson, as he also is the starting play driver on that line.  The last thing any team wants is their top D line  is competing against each other instead of partnering.  Right now, Anderson leads the play; previously Giordano lead the play.  While both at times made moves, there was a dominant partner that started or created the move.  I would not want to take away from Anderson’s potential and progression in order to support Chabot’s “preferences”.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, flames for life said:

Would his being the main play driver a positive or a negative in this situation?  If the idea is to replace no. 1 left D, doesn’t that work against Anderson, as he also is the starting play driver on that line.  The last thing any team wants is their top D line  is competing against each other instead of partnering.  Right now, Anderson leads the play; previously Giordano lead the play.  While both at times made moves, there was a dominant partner that started or created the move.  I would not want to take away from Anderson’s potential and progression in order to support Chabot’s “preferences”.

 

I don't see that being an issue.  Hanifin competes for moving the play and isn't (IMHO) smart with his decision making.  Ideally, you bring in Chabot to replace Hanifin.  Unfortunately, that may not be possible, depending on who is on his 8 team list.  But if you are bringing in $8M, you need to send out almost as much, if not more.  Maybe you can get away with Monahan + Hanifin + Valimaki.  They send Brannstrom and we flip him for Poolparty.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, flames for life said:

Would his being the main play driver a positive or a negative in this situation?  If the idea is to replace no. 1 left D, doesn’t that work against Anderson, as he also is the starting play driver on that line.  The last thing any team wants is their top D line  is competing against each other instead of partnering.  Right now, Anderson leads the play; previously Giordano lead the play.  While both at times made moves, there was a dominant partner that started or created the move.  I would not want to take away from Anderson’s potential and progression in order to support Chabot’s “preferences”.

 

Chabot is a great skater like Hanifin but just better vision.  It shouldn't change the Anderson's game negatively.  Again, if we can keep Hanifin then we should because I think he's a good second pairing D at a fair cap hit.  Maybe the pairings can be,

 

Chabot - Tanev

Hanifin - Andersson

[Thebrewcrew]

I wouldn't be all that interested in Chabot.

 

He would cost a ton to acquire. He's clearly the best D on a really inexperienced blueline. It would take Lindholm or Tkachuk to get Ottawa interested. No thanks

 

I don't think Chabot is much/if at all better than Hanifin. For a player making 8m, Chabot has scored more than 10 once, Hanifin has done it twice. Chabot is a good offensive defenceman, that will put up 35-40pts a season, but for 8m you need to be a #1 and I don't think he is. There's more value in the 3m difference in salary between Hanifin and Chabot. 

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I wouldn't be all that interested in Chabot.

 

He would cost a ton to acquire. He's clearly the best D on a really inexperienced blueline. It would take Lindholm or Tkachuk to get Ottawa interested. No thanks

 

I don't think Chabot is much/if at all better than Hanifin. For a player making 8m, Chabot has scored more than 10 once, Hanifin has done it twice. Chabot is a good offensive defenceman, that will put up 35-40pts a season, but for 8m you need to be a #1 and I don't think he is. There's more value in the 3m difference in salary between Hanifin and Chabot. 

 

Ya but injuries.  Chabot hasn't played a full season so he averages more like 55 to 60-points over 82-games.

[sak22]

35 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya but injuries.  Chabot hasn't played a full season so he averages more like 55 to 60-points over 82-games.

Which should also be a cause for concern.