Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[cross16]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

With the 2nd game of a back to back tonight, I wonder if we will see Simon draw in for Nordstrom and if Kylington will make his season debut for Nesterov.

 

I've been thinking the same but I also think Nesterov was really, really good last night as was that 3rd pairing. I'm also struggling with the idea of putting Kylington into the 3rd pairing (which for the most part has been great this season) when you've got the Gio-Andersson pairing struggling. Can you afford to risk having 2 of your 3 pairings struggle? I feel for Kylington but i'm just not sure you take Nesterov out of the lineup. 

 

I personally wouldn't change the pairings right now. You've got 2 of 3 playing really well and i'm just not sure you risk that at this point especially given that Gio-Andersson have had success in the past so there is reason to believe they will get it together. I also don't think Gio-Nesterov is going to work because in the past Gio hasn't really done well with dmen who freelance and play aggressive like Nesterov does. Gio-Kylington make be worth a try but as I said above tough to justify taking Nesterov out of the lineup. 

 

I think you just need to give it some more time. Clock is ticking but it's not at zero yet. 

[travel_dude]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

Personally I wouldn't touch the Hanifin-Tanev pairing, they might be the best pairing in hockey to start the season.

 

I would look at these combos:

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Andersson

Giordano-Nesterov

 

I would play them all pretty evenly 5v5.

 

 

Okay, I'm good with your adjustment.

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

51 minutes ago, Radster said:

Gio looking really bad again to start the year. Not sure what happened after he won the norris but hes been pretty much crap since. He is still our captain but don't thibk he belongs on the top pairing. 

I thought Gio looked quite solid during the last game. Made some good defensive plays and didn't take any too slow/out of position penalties.

[cross16]

I thought Gio was rough for the first few games but I thought the last 2-3 he's been good. Thought he was good last night too. 

 

I think that pairing is struggling because of a lack of communication, chemistry or understanding. I don't think you can put the blame on either one as both are making mistakes. They don't seem to be on the same page with how each other wants to play. 

 

Rasmus was particular rough last night. Really tough game from him. 

[Thebrewcrew]

I think it would be silly to go with Markstrom again tonight. He's fantastic, but there are some durability concerns. Give him the night off. You're also gonna need Rittich to play a big role in this shortened season, b2b's are the perfect spot to get him in. Jets are going with Brossoit.

 

I imagine it does end up being Rittich, just odd that this staff likes to keep it secret.

 

 

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I thought Gio was rough for the first few games but I thought the last 2-3 he's been good. Thought he was good last night too. 

 

I think that pairing is struggling because of a lack of communication, chemistry or understanding. I don't think you can put the blame on either one as both are making mistakes. They don't seem to be on the same page with how each other wants to play. 

 

Rasmus was particular rough last night. Really tough game from him. 

 

I would be in favor of splitting up the 1st and 3rd pair.

Maybe it's just me but I see too much of the same from Gio and Ras.

Not enough skating from the D-zone, too many long passes into traffoc or the boards.

 

Gio-Nesterov

Valimaki-Ras

 

I would like to see a balanced attack starting from Ras or Valimaki.

Both can skate the puck up.

Both can make accurate passes.

 

Not sure how that would impact Gio, but I think they are both hard enough on players to be able to defend as a pair well.

[JTech780]

Gaudreau really looks comfortable and like he is having fun this season. It's been awhile since he was smiling or laughing in interviews.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, Radster said:

Gio looking really bad again to start the year. Not sure what happened after he won the norris but hes been pretty much crap since. He is still our captain but don't thibk he belongs on the top pairing. 

 

I actually think he over-tries now. Since then and in the playoffs, he's been garbage. I could be wrong. But you know, sometimes a player is too pumped, or trying to do more than one thing at a time, it makes them ineffective. I see that with Gio. I don't see him exactly slowing down, I just wonder if he's stepped in and puts himself behind on plays, much like how Hanifin tended to do the past few years. Hanifin has been a pleasant surprise this year. But I think Gio is trying to be that player instead of just being that player. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

I actually think he over-tries now. Since then and in the playoffs, he's been garbage. I could be wrong. But you know, sometimes a player is too pumped, or trying to do more than one thing at a time, it makes them ineffective. I see that with Gio. I don't see him exactly slowing down, I just wonder if he's stepped in and puts himself behind on plays, much like how Hanifin tended to do the past few years. Hanifin has been a pleasant surprise this year. But I think Gio is trying to be that player instead of just being that player. 

 

What I have liked about Gio is his stepping up to keep the pla alive.

He's not quite as good as Ras at holding the line, but he picks his battles well.

 

What I don't like is he doesn't use the forwards effectively at times.

Too many stretch passes.

Too much dumping in.

It's two tools, not the best ones.

 

And I also find him too limited in mobility on the PK.

He's smart, so I don't get his choices sometimes.

 

 

[robrob74]

41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What I have liked about Gio is his stepping up to keep the pla alive.

He's not quite as good as Ras at holding the line, but he picks his battles well.

 

What I don't like is he doesn't use the forwards effectively at times.

Too many stretch passes.

Too much dumping in.

It's two tools, not the best ones.

 

And I also find him too limited in mobility on the PK.

He's smart, so I don't get his choices sometimes.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if he is actually slowing down physically? Could it be more mentally? I still see him moving (from what I can remember) the same as years past. He wasn't always fleet of foot anyway, but defended really well.

[cross16]

There has been a lot of talk about Gio and Anderson and their impact on the team but someone who has been escaping any criticism is Elias Lindholm. 
 

if that’s to be their number one line they need a lot more out of Lindholm. He’s been pretty invisible at 5 on 5 for most of the season but especially the last 3-4 games. 
 

I know they are pretty committed to him at center but I don’t think the early returns have been very good. 

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

There has been a lot of talk about Gio and Anderson and their impact on the team but someone who has been escaping any criticism is Elias Lindholm. 
 

if that’s to be their number one line they need a lot more out of Lindholm. He’s been pretty invisible at 5 on 5 for most of the season but especially the last 3-4 games. 
 

I know they are pretty committed to him at center but I don’t think the early returns have been very good. 

 

It might be an idea to swap Lindholm with Monahan.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

There has been a lot of talk about Gio and Anderson and their impact on the team but someone who has been escaping any criticism is Elias Lindholm. 
 

if that’s to be their number one line they need a lot more out of Lindholm. He’s been pretty invisible at 5 on 5 for most of the season but especially the last 3-4 games. 
 

I know they are pretty committed to him at center but I don’t think the early returns have been very good. 

 

I think that Lindholm has been fairly silent, like you said, especially since Dube's injury. Dube is back, but the play after his injury seems to have continued. I don't know if he has been terrible, just that on the scoresheet he has been very quiet, and that would go for Tkachuk too, just since they're on the same line... Of course Tkachuk has been pretty good, just that Lindholm could be a reason they've not been better. I think it might have to do with overplaying him. He is the best at PK, one of the best at PP, and I just think it could be affecting the 5v5 play. 

 

Since Dube's been back, it seems like he's trying to do too much all at once...

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think that Lindholm has been fairly silent, like you said, especially since Dube's injury. Dube is back, but the play after his injury seems to have continued. I don't know if he has been terrible, just that on the scoresheet he has been very quiet, and that would go for Tkachuk too, just since they're on the same line... Of course Tkachuk has been pretty good, just that Lindholm could be a reason they've not been better. I think it might have to do with overplaying him. He is the best at PK, one of the best at PP, and I just think it could be affecting the 5v5 play. 

 

Since Dube's been back, it seems like he's trying to do too much all at once...

The real issue is if Dube is the key player to another players success I think you need to consider the position is weak...RW needs 2 top 6 guys 

 

Dube is a converted LW and to be honest he’s a 3rd liner.

Lindholm is a RW now being converted back to Ctr so make no wonder he’s gonna take time to get back to playing a Ctr roll, in a short season this was a bad idea 

Backlund is probably the biggest problem, Cgy needs to move him for another top 6 RW And go with this:

 

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm 

Tachuck/Bennet/??????

manji/Ryan/Simon or Levno

Luch/????/Simon or Levno 

 

and the D needs to be reshuffled:

 

Valimaki/Anderson

Hanifin/Tanev 

Gio/Nesterov 

 

if Geo is truly still a good D it will help moving him to the 3rd pair, if not, it will show and maybe address the 3rd pair at the TDL? 
 

and Ritich needs to play more often he’s not able to find a rhythm playing the latter 1/2 of back to back games. Either that or trade him if your gonna rely on Markstrom.

 

 

 

 

 

[JTech780]

I am on board with Lindholm at center, I think he has played well. 

 

Lindholm at 5v5 (rank amongst Flames forwards)

CF%: 56.12 (3rd)

FF%: 53.25 (5th)

xGF%: 57.18 (3rd)

SCF%: 59.79 (1st)

HDCF%: 53.85 (4th)

Points: 4 (3rd)

On-site SH%: 8.33% (6th)

 

I think he has been pretty good, I think his line has had some bad luck shooting the puck, when SH% starts to climb the points will come, and that can be said for pretty much the whole team.

[travel_dude]

Lindy is struggling to score at C.

I'm not suggesting he need to move to RW, just that something isn't quite right in the lines.

Monahan also struggling to score.

It's early, but I think the RW's for the top 6 needs to be re-thought.

Dube is struggling after coming back.

Mangiapane is better at LW.

Simon has looked good but is not a finisher.

 

Bennett has not looked good for an entire game in the top 6.

3rd line continues to struggle.

 

Not sure what the answer is, but we are struggling to score >3 in a game.

The chances are there but a lot of missed opportunity

[cross16]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I am on board with Lindholm at center, I think he has played well. 

 

Lindholm at 5v5 (rank amongst Flames forwards)

CF%: 56.12 (3rd)

FF%: 53.25 (5th)

xGF%: 57.18 (3rd)

SCF%: 59.79 (1st)

HDCF%: 53.85 (4th)

Points: 4 (3rd)

On-site SH%: 8.33% (6th)

 

I think he has been pretty good, I think his line has had some bad luck shooting the puck, when SH% starts to climb the points will come, and that can be said for pretty much the whole team.

 

I thought that line got off to a really good start but they've started to slide. The last 4-5 games he is closer to the bottom than the top of those rankings. I just don't see him dirving offense the way you want a center in that spot to be doing. 

 

Small sample size both directions and i'm obviously more of a skeptic of him at center so I am biased I just don't like the trend. My fear with moving Lindholm to center is i'm not big on his ability to create offence and we are starting to see that. 

[cross16]

I actually think it's time for Ward to stop the line tinkering for a while. I know they lost but I liked a lot of the things the flames did last night, especially going back and watching some of the game, and while there are things to improve upon I think they are finding their game. Time to keep a lineup together for a few games and let them build on some chemistry and get on a roll here because I think it's coming. 

 

Johnny - Mony  Mang

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Dube

Bennett - Backs - Leivo

Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom. 

 

Leave it alone and stop the blender. The team hasn't always made it easy on the coach with some so/so efforts but I also think Ward is tinkering too much (ie, no reason Mang should have sat like he did last night). Individually most of these guys have found their game, or have at some point this season, so let them go for a little while. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Lindy is struggling to score at C.

I'm not suggesting he need to move to RW, just that something isn't quite right in the lines.

Monahan also struggling to score.

It's early, but I think the RW's for the top 6 needs to be re-thought.

Dube is struggling after coming back.

Mangiapane is better at LW.

Simon has looked good but is not a finisher.

 

Bennett has not looked good for an entire game in the top 6.

3rd line continues to struggle.

 

Not sure what the answer is, but we are struggling to score >3 in a game.

The chances are there but a lot of missed opportunity

Not sure what the concern is. He's tied for team lead with 11pts (5pts in the last 3 games).  He leads the team with 9 assists. His FO% is no worse or better than anyone else on the team.  I think it's silly that this even be an issue for anyone paying attention.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, MP5029 said:

The real issue is if Dube is the key player to another players success I think you need to consider the position is weak...RW needs 2 top 6 guys 

 

Dube is a converted LW and to be honest he’s a 3rd liner.

Lindholm is a RW now being converted back to Ctr so make no wonder he’s gonna take time to get back to playing a Ctr roll, in a short season this was a bad idea 

Backlund is probably the biggest problem, Cgy needs to move him for another top 6 RW And go with this:

 

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm 

Tachuck/Bennet/??????

manji/Ryan/Simon or Levno

Luch/????/Simon or Levno 

 

and the D needs to be reshuffled:

 

Valimaki/Anderson

Hanifin/Tanev 

Gio/Nesterov 

 

if Geo is truly still a good D it will help moving him to the 3rd pair, if not, it will show and maybe address the 3rd pair at the TDL? 
 

and Ritich needs to play more often he’s not able to find a rhythm playing the latter 1/2 of back to back games. Either that or trade him if your gonna rely on Markstrom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the bolded, that's how I feel too. He could be a 2nd liner, but those spots are held for Tkachuk and Gaudreau on this team. I am not trying to take away from Dube and his play and success at all. Depth on the FLames puts him at 1RW... 

 

The thing withBacklund, I wonder if he's pouting having put on a line with Bennett and away from Tkachuk. Maybe Tkachuk has been such a constant with him the last 3 years that he's gotten so used to playing with him. 

 

I don't know if it makes them a deeper team or easier team to play against if they went back to what used to be. Johnny looks like a man possessed, like him of old. When he is going, that Monahan line is going... 

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm/Mangiapane

Mangiapane/Tkachuk, Backlund, Tkachuk/Lindholm

Dube, Bennett, Leivo/Simon

Lucic, Ryan, Nordstrom/Leivo

 

TO me, Bennett sucks because I think he's a Center and he is too jailed in on the wing; I mean, he's too close to the wall. He plays like a C as a winger and it ruins his game. Not to give him any excuses, I just feel like he's not had a good year at all! But something like this is what I expected after last season. But they might be deeper up the middle with Lindholm as a C...

 

The Problem with the roster as is today is that they aren't getting depth scoring unless someone is elevated to a top line. Even then, are the depth players scoring enough? And we are borrowing depth from other places to fill holes in others... Sometimes it clicks and sometimes it doesn't. Last night was a night where it didn't, and the night before was a night where it did... Let's face it, that game against the Jets that we did win, we were lucky to get a victory there, if it weren't for Tanev's blue-line goal. They did play great in that third though, so we could say the deserved a few more goals, but that doesn't account for their playing from behind early... WHich isn't a recipe for success.

 

I believe the Flames are going to keep Lindholm at C. They see him as a Bergeron. 

 

 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Lindy is struggling to score at C.

I'm not suggesting he need to move to RW, just that something isn't quite right in the lines.

Monahan also struggling to score.

It's early, but I think the RW's for the top 6 needs to be re-thought.

Dube is struggling after coming back.

Mangiapane is better at LW.

Simon has looked good but is not a finisher.

 

Bennett has not looked good for an entire game in the top 6.

3rd line continues to struggle.

 

Not sure what the answer is, but we are struggling to score >3 in a game.

The chances are there but a lot of missed opportunity

 

 

I feel like both Tkachuk/Lindholm and Gaudreau/Monahan lines are going (most of the time), but there's something missing on both lines. It's like you said, something just isn't right... To me, we are borrowing from lower depth to finish the top lines, leaving the lower lines weaker. Lucic had a good couple of games, but a bad one last night. I think that Ward believes if he keeps playing Lucic his legs will keep moving. Somehow he believes Lucic as a key to the Flames success. 

 

Honestly, I didn't watch the third period. My partner and I were sitting down for dinner and she doesn't like hockey, so we watched something else. From what I read Ward threw caution to the wind and kept the blender going, while still awarding some players even though they had bad play and demoting others in their play? I get that you gotta give some of these vets some leeway and time to work out kinks. But I wonder what message it sends to some players that when they make mistakes, they get sat and others dont? 

 

I kind of see what JTech sees. I see Lindholm doing good things out there. Although, the last few games have been harder to notice him away from the PP. But I do see him doing good things. But I think that a lot of the Flames play has been perimiter and shots from far, and we see how they can score when they get the puck in front of the net. Maybe we gotta give the other team credit for keeping them outside and clogging the slot? That Valamaki pass was great, and Gaudreau was Johnny on the spot. But he got into the area for a nice backdoor tap in. We don't see a lot of pucks getting to that area, or at least not enough of them are.

 

Players are supposed to be pros, I get it, but you can't tell me that some of that thought process doesn't creep in. I don't think it helps to sit guys after mistakes. It just makes them more cautious and prone to make more mistakes. Then you can't trust them after awhile. That's what I've seen from some of the young players. Kylington, Bennett, Jankowski, and others... They play(ed) tentative hockey. I see that as a big difference in Mangiapane's/Dube's games. They just go out there and do, they play their game, whereas the other group I've mentioned don't seem to know what their game is?

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I actually think it's time for Ward to stop the line tinkering for a while. I know they lost but I liked a lot of the things the flames did last night, especially going back and watching some of the game, and while there are things to improve upon I think they are finding their game. Time to keep a lineup together for a few games and let them build on some chemistry and get on a roll here because I think it's coming. 

 

Johnny - Mony  Mang

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Dube

Bennett - Backs - Leivo

Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom. 

 

Leave it alone and stop the blender. The team hasn't always made it easy on the coach with some so/so efforts but I also think Ward is tinkering too much (ie, no reason Mang should have sat like he did last night). Individually most of these guys have found their game, or have at some point this season, so let them go for a little while. 

 

I agree, 

 

They say NHLers should be fine with whoever they're playing with as they're all good players, but I think for consistency and figuring out each other's habits, they need to stay together. Even though they're all using the same playbook, they still have fundamental habits that each other have. Sometimes it looks like players are getting in each other's ways too often. They're not getting to open ice to receive or create lanes for passes. That's not every line, but a few of them. I think if they kept the lines together they'd start to clean some of that up. I don't want them to become too robotic, but I think they need a bit of robotic for awhile, like Montreal. They know what they're doing strategy wise, and they go out and do it as a unit. They're playing to the plan. It's like you've said before, you're still not 100% sure what the coaches plan has been. 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I feel like both Tkachuk/Lindholm and Gaudreau/Monahan lines are going (most of the time), but there's something missing on both lines. It's like you said, something just isn't right... To me, we are borrowing from lower depth to finish the top lines, leaving the lower lines weaker. Lucic had a good couple of games, but a bad one last night. I think that Ward believes if he keeps playing Lucic his legs will keep moving. Somehow he believes Lucic as a key to the Flames success. 

 

Honestly, I didn't watch the third period. My partner and I were sitting down for dinner and she doesn't like hockey, so we watched something else. From what I read Ward threw caution to the wind and kept the blender going, while still awarding some players even though they had bad play and demoting others in their play? I get that you gotta give some of these vets some leeway and time to work out kinks. But I wonder what message it sends to some players that when they make mistakes, they get sat and others dont? 

 

I kind of see what JTech sees. I see Lindholm doing good things out there. Although, the last few games have been harder to notice him away from the PP. But I do see him doing good things. But I think that a lot of the Flames play has been perimiter and shots from far, and we see how they can score when they get the puck in front of the net. Maybe we gotta give the other team credit for keeping them outside and clogging the slot? That Valamaki pass was great, and Gaudreau was Johnny on the spot. But he got into the area for a nice backdoor tap in. We don't see a lot of pucks getting to that area, or at least not enough of them are.

 

Players are supposed to be pros, I get it, but you can't tell me that some of that thought process doesn't creep in. I don't think it helps to sit guys after mistakes. It just makes them more cautious and prone to make more mistakes. Then you can't trust them after awhile. That's what I've seen from some of the young players. Kylington, Bennett, Jankowski, and others... They play(ed) tentative hockey. I see that as a big difference in Mangiapane's/Dube's games. They just go out there and do, they play their game, whereas the other group I've mentioned don't seem to know what their game is?

 

Bennett obviously didn't impress Ward, because he got 3 shifts in the 3rd.

We have three top 6 C's now, but we've lost a top 6 RW.

Dube isn't there yet.

I've got no problem letting them develop the chemistry they need, but I will point out that already has that with Tkachuk.

 

It may sound like I am harping, but I like to build on previous success.

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube

 

Mangiapane bring exactly what he did last yea to Tkachuk's line.

Dube builds on  good start to the season by being paired with another speedy winger.

Maybe it's me, but I could see 2 on 1's and breakaways resulting.

Monahan as the trailer to pound in the rebound.

I Know, I am projecting...

 

Leave the 3rd and 4th alone.

Maybe sub in Simon for Nordstrom.

[JTech780]

When I dig into the stats I think there needs to be a couple of small changes on the lines.

 

Dube with Lindholm and Tkachuk isn't working. That line has a CF% of 51.72, but when Tkachuk and Lindholm are away from Dube they are operating at 68.42 CF%. If you swap Dube for Mangiapane, that line is running at 67.44 CF%.

 

We are talking about small sample sizes.

 

Here are the lines I would go with:

 

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk

I think this a potent two way line that can dominate at both ends.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

Leivo's game is turning a corner, which isn't too surprising now that he has knocked off the rust.

 

Bennett-Backlund-Dube

Bennett and Dube worked well together in the playoffs, I also think this takes some pressure off of Dube and will let him just play his game.

 

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

I would like to put Simon in for Nordstrom, but when I dug into the stats, this line has been very good over the last 5 games.

 

[robrob74]

25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

When I dig into the stats I think there needs to be a couple of small changes on the lines.

 

Dube with Lindholm and Tkachuk isn't working. That line has a CF% of 51.72, but when Tkachuk and Lindholm are away from Dube they are operating at 68.42 CF%. If you swap Dube for Mangiapane, that line is running at 67.44 CF%.

 

We are talking about small sample sizes.

 

Here are the lines I would go with:

 

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk

I think this a potent two way line that can dominate at both ends.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

Leivo's game is turning a corner, which isn't too surprising now that he has knocked off the rust.

 

Bennett-Backlund-Dube

Bennett and Dube worked well together in the playoffs, I also think this takes some pressure off of Dube and will let him just play his game.

 

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

I would like to put Simon in for Nordstrom, but when I dug into the stats, this line has been very good over the last 5 games.

 

 

I actually think that creates the deepest, most logical team yet. 

I dont think it's demoting Dube as much as making the bottom 6 work. I've always thought Mangiapane should be with Tkachuk. It could probably work with Backlund, but I think they need a real RW. But we've also seen Bennett work well with Dube in the past. I've always thought that Bennett and Dube should be glued to the hip because they play a similar game, speed up the ice and constantly in motion. Without that player, Bennett looks slow and takes bad penalties (that's on him of course).

 

Nordstrom has looked a bit better at times.