travel_dude Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, MP5029 said: Yes but they have time to figure that out...had we signed hall we too could have moved a few player around...I’m not sure why BT is so reserved...it’s like he’s scared to be bold and take chances, that will never get you a winner They have a luxury we don't. If they lose a player and have to pay a premium to do so, they won't be concerned. Cost you a 1st or 2nd? So what. I do think BT needs to step up and make an offer for a decent player, below par value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, MP5029 said: Yes but they have time to figure that out...had we signed hall we too could have moved a few player around...I’m not sure why BT is so reserved...it’s like he’s scared to be bold and take chances, that will never get you a winner actually they dont ..have to move the money before they can officially sign him in their case even with overage they only have about 6.7 open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, travel_dude said: They have a luxury we don't. If they lose a player and have to pay a premium to do so, they won't be concerned. Cost you a 1st or 2nd? So what. I do think BT needs to step up and make an offer for a decent player, below par value. word is they have a deal in place to send Schmidt to Winnipeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 I guess the great thing is we get to watch all the teams arounds us get better and we stay stagnant. We have a possible good goalie, time will tell but we have lost a ton of quality D men and no upgrade on forward support. Perhaps the idea is to make it look like we are putting a team which can compete but at the same time we can start to look forward to a top 3-5 pick next season. If that's the case then good job BT you have me convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, phoenix66 said: My thoughts exactly Lol that would be ok IF he actually tried to do that we know full well he didn’t even make an effort for Hall reading the release from Hall, I’d say he’s a bit disappointed, I get he feeling he’s have sighted here for 6.5 at least for a year or two...all be it we would have to look at giving him 8 at some point if we wanted to keep him but dollars to donuts he’d have done 6.5 to be in Cgy had they made the effort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, MP5029 said: Lol that would be ok IF he actually tried to do that we know full well he didn’t even make an effort for Hall No he made a decision to give us a true #1 goalie that we havent had since Kipper .. he cant do both If he had signed Hall people would be whining we didn't upgrade the net Last year that would have cost way more ($10 M - Bob) but he did try and keep Talbot , Reider and apparently even Gus,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 darn ..was kind of hoping wed give him another shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, MP5029 said: Lol that would be ok IF he actually tried to do that we know full well he didn’t even make an effort for Hall reading the release from Hall, I’d say he’s a bit disappointed, I get he feeling he’s have sighted here for 6.5 at least for a year or two...all be it we would have to look at giving him 8 at some point if we wanted to keep him but dollars to donuts he’d have done 6.5 to be in Cgy had they made the effort And if he had ..youd be ok moving Johnny for a pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: No he made a decision to give us a true #1 goalie that we havent had since Kipper .. he cant do both If he had signed Hall people would be whining we didn't upgrade the net Last year that would have cost way more ($10 M - Bob) but he did try and keep Talbot , Reider and apparently even Gus,, That’s garbage, we had options, and he blew them when you have a chance to nab an elite scorer you take it and work it out later, his focus was off base there were a ton and still are a few solid D options to fill the holes Tanev is good and happy to have him but everyone agrees he’s over paid and that shows panic on BT’s part he was clearly not thinking on this past Goalie and a D let’s be honest after Brodie flew coop the D was gonna be whatever and still is, I’d have rather hedged the vet and gotten Hall then worried about the cap issues later I have no doubt if Mlt, LVK and a few others can build that way so can BT..he’s not willing to take risks as of late and that’s the best way to be an average team which is exactly what we have been under him. Don’t believe me, where is the 2nd round playoff,3rd? Finals appearance? Cup? Nope to all of them...how about Stl? Yup to all cause they take chances, how about LVK, only in the NHL for what 5 years and been a contender every year..why they do thing like they are doing now BT just won’t take that big risk that’s needed to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: And if he had ..youd be ok moving Johnny for a pick? sure or a 2nd line RW, or heck even a pick we could convert to a 2nd line winger... honestly Hall would have been the safest “risk” BT could have made not like we would loose scoring or anything JG brings but the up side we would have had options...what do we have now? Scoring with no options...do or die that’s poor management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosn111 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 I would say that Hall is / was only an option if Gaudreau was being traded. To me this says more about the potential trade market for Johnny. It is also possible that Treliving told Hall that they had interest but were in wait and see mode. Hall wanted to sign quickly. We look at a few teams now well over the cap who need to move salary just to be compliant. My guess is Treliving wants to be able to trade if he wants, but not forced to take less back to simply fit under cap. While in order to get a higher end player with higher salary would require moving salary, it’s not an absolute need. Leaves the Flames in a stronger position for negotiation. Teams who miss out on Hall and other big names, may up their offers for Gaudreau. Treliving May be able to take advantage of teams like Toronto and Vegas. Flames could move 3-4 higher / mid players and remain at least competitive or even improve. That number shrinks once Pietrangelo officially signs because now you can’t really trade Giordano. Hanifin could be moved but until Valimaki proves he can handle top 4, I don’t really accept the need or drive to do so. Ryan is a luxury and is moveable. He won’t bring back a top player, but for cap purposes teams like Buffalo or Ottawa could bite. Gaudreau and Monahan are the other 2 that are potentially moveable without a huge drop off. I think the ability to try Lindholm or Bennett as top C means moving Mony isn’t necessarily a huge loss for the right pieces. Tkachuk could play top LW and Mangiapane could be second LW so moving Gaudreau isn’t necessarily terrible for the right return. The Flames would likely stay competitive at least, maybe a slight drop. Treliving definitely has work to do, but we will wait and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, MP5029 said: That’s garbage, we had options, and he blew them when you have a chance to nab an elite scorer you take it and work it out later, his focus was off base there were a ton and still are a few solid D options to fill the holes Tanev is good and happy to have him but everyone agrees he’s over paid and that shows panic on BT’s part he was clearly not thinking on this past Goalie and a D let’s be honest after Brodie flew coop the D was gonna be whatever and still is, I’d have rather hedged the vet and gotten Hall then worried about the cap issues later I have no doubt if Mlt, LVK and a few others can build that way so can BT..he’s not willing to take risks as of late and that’s the best way to be an average team which is exactly what we have been under him. Don’t believe me, where is the 2nd round playoff,3rd? Finals appearance? Cup? Nope to all of them...how about Stl? Yup to all cause they take chances, how about LVK, only in the NHL for what 5 years and been a contender every year..why they do thing like they are doing now BT just won’t take that big risk that’s needed to win. The only people who think Tanev is overpaid are Calgary fans . Bottom line we have been trying to solidify goal for nearly 10 years.. you don't get this opportunity often and when you do it costs way more . Nobody wanted hall more than me ..but the fact is we didnt have the money..we already have to move more just to finish what we have We don't know what was offered elsewhere and turned down... Kadri and Zucker should both be on this team right now. No fault of BT they aren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, MP5029 said: sure or a 2nd line RW, or heck even a pick we could convert to a 2nd line winger... honestly Hall would have been the safest “risk” BT could have made not like we would loose scoring or anything JG brings but the up side we would have had options...what do we have now? Scoring with no options...do or die that’s poor management No..just a pick..he'd have to go with no money coming back... Now ..if he's still going to trade him he can go after teams desperate to move and swap money ..we don't know what conversation has been had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 54 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: word is they have a deal in place to send Schmidt to Winnipeg I don't buy that one bit. WPG is at the cap, so they can't take Schmidt. They have to move out salary and/or trade Roslovic just to get by. Niku is an RFA as well. WPG did them one favour already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, bosn111 said: I would say that Hall is / was only an option if Gaudreau was being traded. To me this says more about the potential trade market for Johnny. It is also possible that Treliving told Hall that they had interest but were in wait and see mode. Hall wanted to sign quickly. We look at a few teams now well over the cap who need to move salary just to be compliant. My guess is Treliving wants to be able to trade if he wants, but not forced to take less back to simply fit under cap. While in order to get a higher end player with higher salary would require moving salary, it’s not an absolute need. Leaves the Flames in a stronger position for negotiation. Teams who miss out on Hall and other big names, may up their offers for Gaudreau. Treliving May be able to take advantage of teams like Toronto and Vegas. Flames could move 3-4 higher / mid players and remain at least competitive or even improve. That number shrinks once Pietrangelo officially signs because now you can’t really trade Giordano. Hanifin could be moved but until Valimaki proves he can handle top 4, I don’t really accept the need or drive to do so. Ryan is a luxury and is moveable. He won’t bring back a top player, but for cap purposes teams like Buffalo or Ottawa could bite. Gaudreau and Monahan are the other 2 that are potentially moveable without a huge drop off. I think the ability to try Lindholm or Bennett as top C means moving Mony isn’t necessarily a huge loss for the right pieces. Tkachuk could play top LW and Mangiapane could be second LW so moving Gaudreau isn’t necessarily terrible for the right return. The Flames would likely stay competitive at least, maybe a slight drop. Treliving definitely has work to do, but we will wait and see what happens. All true especially the last part wait and see an Treliving has work to do...But yes maybe he could leverage JG, Mony even (though I’m of the same camp, Mony was good without JG a few years before him, JG struggled the few times he was without Mony when we split them up a few times...I’d rather move JG, he’s great and all but one trick pony, Mony is more versatile so I’d keep him. in an ideal world, Mony is a top tier 2nd line Ctr, but we are not luck like the Pens and oil with multiple 1st’s and probably never will be so Mony is the best Ctr we have had since Newy and that’s a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, travel_dude said: I don't buy that one bit. WPG is at the cap, so they can't take Schmidt. They have to move out salary and/or trade Roslovic just to get by. Niku is an RFA as well. WPG did them one favour already. It also involved them trading Laine apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameFan4Life Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 I think what is more likely is that after we signed Markstrom Tre moved on to Dman and finished up those two. Hall was waiting to see if we could fit him in. Every other team in the league new we were after Hall and they were trying to fleece us. Tre is good but he isn't able to do magic. Look at a few years ago when we tried to get Stone or Duchene. Ottawa was demanding Valamaki. Tre said no. We don't know that this year was any different. Let me ask, if to fit Hall in we had to add Valamaki to what ever he was working on would Hall be enough at the end of the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: The only people who think Tanev is overpaid are Calgary fans . Bottom line we have been trying to solidify goal for nearly 10 years.. you don't get this opportunity often and when you do it costs way more . Nobody wanted hall more than me ..but the fact is we didnt have the money..we already have to move more just to finish what we have We don't know what was offered elsewhere and turned down... Kadri and Zucker should both be on this team right now. No fault of BT they aren't Didn’t have the Money? Wrong! We totally did till Tanev, is my point, add a trade and poof we have maybe Vatenen instead Tanev big deal? Id suggest Hall+Vatenen is >Tanev and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, MP5029 said: Didn’t have the Money? Wrong! We totally did till Tanev, is my point, add a trade and poof we have maybe Vatenen instead Tanev big deal? Id suggest Hall+Vatenen is >Tanev and Vatanen is not a defensive Dman ..we had to replace Hamonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, FlameFan4Life said: I think what is more likely is that after we signed Markstrom Tre moved on to Dman and finished up those two. Hall was waiting to see if we could fit him in. Every other team in the league new we were after Hall and they were trying to fleece us. Tre is good but he isn't able to do magic. Look at a few years ago when we tried to get Stone or Duchene. Ottawa was demanding Valamaki. Tre said no. We don't know that this year was any different. Let me ask, if to fit Hall in we had to add Valamaki to what ever he was working on would Hall be enough at the end of the day? Valimaki is an obscure thing to throw in he’s not gonna make the $ up and I’d we have to add something for some one to take JG on a 6.5 value contract then we have some seri issues and should be trading him even faster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Vatanen is not a defensive Dman ..we had to replace Hamonic Omg! Yes but we have NOt replaces Brodie and the pts he generates for the forwards, how do you win without scoring? Are you asking Markstrom and Tanev to score? Cause that’s basically what your saying as for defensive play that can be reached to D, you can’t teach them to be offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, MP5029 said: Didn’t have the Money? Wrong! We totally did till Tanev, is my point, add a trade and poof we have maybe Vatenen instead Tanev big deal? Id suggest Hall+Vatenen is >Tanev and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, MP5029 said: Omg! Yes but we have NOt replaces Brodie and the pts he generates for the forwards, how do you win without scoring? Are you asking Markstrom and Tanev to score? Cause that’s basically what your saying as for defensive play that can be reached to D, you can’t teach them to be offensive He's already replaced ..his name is Andersson.. Andersson's spot has already been replaced.. his name is Valimaki What we didn't have was a replacement for Hamonic . Forbort wasn't it.. can't handle the minutes required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: word is they have a deal in place to send Schmidt to Winnipeg I read that on Eklund. And the real story is that VGK traded Scmidt to VAN for a 3rd rounder. A LHS, so he doesn't replace Tanev, but he's pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I read that on Eklund. And the real story is that VGK traded Scmidt to VAN for a 3rd rounder. A LHS, so he doesn't replace Tanev, but he's pretty good. He probabaly got it from Freidman and Lebrun where I got it . Ya saw that.. good grab for a 3rd round pick... See we just need to be patient and hit these desperate teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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