travel_dude Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 minute ago, The_People1 said: I don't know about you but I see a reluctance to wear masks in public everywhere I go. If it wasn't for Costco basically mandating it... Anywhere else, I see very few masks worn. And hardly any social distancing. Like we are "under lockdown" but it's not strict enough. Essentially services has always been open and... Thing that gets me the most, Alberta was getting 50 cases per day back in March when we were told to lock down. Now we are getting 50 a day and let's begin Phase 2 re-opening... Uh what? I see the opposite here in Edmonchuk. Maybe not 4 of 5 but pretty close to it. And people have gotten so used to distance that you rarely come into contact within 3 feet. What boggles my mind is that with all the precautions available and used, we still have people infected. I don't think it's due to people wearing masks still being exposed. I don't think that the virus is spreading in some new way. That leads me down the path of TFW's living together with others. And people that want to get away from their own countries and visit families here. I could be 100% wrong, but I think community infection is just that, within a small group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, sak22 said: I think the more important question should be the risks of long term health effects, still more research needs to be done and like every other virus people react differently. I don't think can be a case where you give these players 2 weeks and then back to skating. If Auston Matthews returns and plays, he could jeopardize his long term health, if he decides to take his time and the Leafs lose how much hate is he going to take. Right now I'm more bitter about the fact the draft isn't happening on this weekend and neither is free agency next week, than I am about lost games. That's the $1m question isn't it. Are infected people immune once they battle the disease. The other thing that isn't really known is the body's defense to the germ. A healthy immune system should be able to combat the virus. You typically contract them when your immune system is compromised. Is this virus different or do the people that get it have been exposed when they are susceptible. I hear ya about the draft and the UFA period. I don't like CGY's chances for making it to the conference final. They may well be ready for WPG and the next round, but that's still just 1st round. I am looking forward to rebuilding the roster after a number of players depart. Draft day is also a time that BT uses to make changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 52 minutes ago, sak22 said: If Auston Matthews returns and plays, he could jeopardize his long term health, if he decides to take his time and the Leafs lose how much hate is he going to take. It's kinda funny how the media/Leafs fans react though. Lightning and Penguins players get covid = Let's get the season restarted soon. Matthews gets covid = Shut it down! Cancel the season! So what I gather is this, if the Leafs reach the Cup Finals then play on no matter what. If it's Flames vs Hurricanes, shut her down. Cancel the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 37 minutes ago, The_People1 said: It's kinda funny how the media/Leafs fans react though. Lightning and Penguins players get covid = Let's get the season restarted soon. Matthews gets covid = Shut it down! Cancel the season! So what I gather is this, if the Leafs reach the Cup Finals then play on no matter what. If it's Flames vs Hurricanes, shut her down. Cancel the season. The NHL suggestion is that a case is considered to be IR or LTIR depending on the outcome. Not that the cap is important, but it sets the groundwork for next season. So, there is not going to be a player decision, but the medical staff make the call, enforced by the league. Fans can chirp all they want, but the decision comes down to the league (already decided) and the NHLPA, who are probably 70/30 for. In adequate testing to date has kept the numbers to be nil. Not sure of the duration of the virus, so Matthews could be done for the summer or delayed until just before camp starts. Or somewhere in between. What good may come out of this is we learn a bit more about the virus; why some didn't get it from Matthews, how long it takes, re-infection.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: If I read you correctly, we were in wave 1. Wave 2 is upon us as things are opening up across Canada and have been in the US. Edmonton has now passed Calgary in active cases for the first time. The logical assumption is that EDM opened sooner. But, again the numbers are just a talking point. How is it that we have been under a lockdown and people persist in getting newly infected? Well, we don't really have a closed international border do we? I don't believe that for this long people could be asymptomatic and are passing it on. I suppose anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe that newcomers are not the reason for the daily increases. If it's that simple, then the eradication is simple. Close the borders like they should have been back in February/March. Anyone that enters due to being a Canadian is quarantined against their will in a hospital. Self isolation was and continues to be a joke. you get it from just passing someone in the grocery store. Is everyone wearing masks? I heard on RadioLab, a podcast that interviews scientists and others who are directly related to stories that they tell. It's a rather cool podcast, but in one of their post Covid episodes, they talk about how just opening your mouth releases saliva spores into the air that potentially have germs, or covid on them. They tested airplanes, and in those tests they found that just opening your mouth to talk those spores travel 3 feet in front and 3 feet behind you. It depends on the air movement on how long those spores stay in the air. It doesn't matter if you're on lockdown, or isolating if people refuse to use the masks. You can still pass it on if you're distancing if the wind is helping it move. In Vancouver a man self isolated and thought he was rid of his covid, stopped on the street to talk to a friend, and then the friend ended up getting it. They said they remained about 6 ft apart. Although, they probably didn't get a measuring stick out, but just that interaction of being supposedly as much as recommended still transferred from one person to another. Imagine being in a store, someone isn't wearing a mask, talks to their person, and as they leave, they've left those spores in the air waiting for someone behind them to possibly pick them up. I think the biggest liability in this whole thing is that fact that you could be asymptomatic and think you're fine, or you feel just a bit ill but not enough to get you down, you think it's something small so you still go out. I think it's travellers and people not wearing masks that are spreading it. Also, imagine people working in the recycling depots, they have to touch or be in contact with the possibility of those viruses being alive and sitting on the things that are coming in. I forget how long they survive on things. I think early on they said it was 3 days. And in one of those RadioLab episodes, scientists were testing the cruise ships after and found that the viruses were EVERYWHERE, on the most random things and in places you'd not think they'd be. So, if someone who has it, breathes on something, and you randomly touch it without realizing then you're screwed. This scientist said they went in about a month after I think... I'd have to go back and listen to it. But of course, they were there, but not necessarily active in State Rooms and other parts of the boats. This virus is pretty insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: I see the opposite here in Edmonchuk. Maybe not 4 of 5 but pretty close to it. And people have gotten so used to distance that you rarely come into contact within 3 feet. What boggles my mind is that with all the precautions available and used, we still have people infected. I don't think it's due to people wearing masks still being exposed. I don't think that the virus is spreading in some new way. That leads me down the path of TFW's living together with others. And people that want to get away from their own countries and visit families here. I could be 100% wrong, but I think community infection is just that, within a small group of people. I think that's the other thing. It is going to run rampant through a community if one person in the community gets it. All it takes is one person from out in public to bring it into a community to do it. Here in Vancouver, when the ban on social distancing was lifted, people were allowed to have park family gatherings. There was an extended family who had a 30 people gathering at the park, and something like 13 of them caught covid from that one gathering. I think it's an issue of people not taking social distancing seriously enough. In your neck of the woods, you might see a lot of masks, but it really only takes a few who haven't been wearing it. I admit, I don't wear a mask every time I go for walks either. I should, because this thing freaks me out. My luck over the last 2-3 years, I'd end up getting it. haha. I mean, I am just surprised that I haven't heard of anyone in my family getting it yet. "Knock on wood." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: The NHL suggestion is that a case is considered to be IR or LTIR depending on the outcome. Not that the cap is important, but it sets the groundwork for next season. So, there is not going to be a player decision, but the medical staff make the call, enforced by the league. Fans can chirp all they want, but the decision comes down to the league (already decided) and the NHLPA, who are probably 70/30 for. In adequate testing to date has kept the numbers to be nil. Not sure of the duration of the virus, so Matthews could be done for the summer or delayed until just before camp starts. Or somewhere in between. What good may come out of this is we learn a bit more about the virus; why some didn't get it from Matthews, how long it takes, re-infection.... Wouldn't it also have insurance ramifications? Aren't players insured for injury, and maybe the health risk of catching Covid from another player assumes a health risk if they play, and therefore they'd be covered under their player's insurance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 I don't doubt the research, if it is in fact being reported correctly. There seems to be a lot of opinions in the scientific community. The other thing is that stories like the one you mentioned are fact with interpretation mixed in. People are supposedly honest. But how are we to know if the only part reported is from the infected. People are quick to jump to the conclusion. In theory, the mask blocks all form of transmission. And we have a no-mask no-fly policy in effect. I don't doubt the voracity of the virus, just what is possible. A trace found on a surface is not necessarily contractable. Outdoors is a slim chance of contracting it, if at all. So that really leaves us a couple of scenarios that exist today. New comers to a community. Someone who is still infected breathing on someone else. I'm no expert, but I don't see any other way. We don't have a closed border in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Wouldn't it also have insurance ramifications? Aren't players insured for injury, and maybe the health risk of catching Covid from another player assumes a health risk if they play, and therefore they'd be covered under their player's insurance? Yes, that's exactly what it means. Injury or COVID-19 illness treated the same way. Unlike an ordinary flu. Testing will uncover anyone infected. Repeated testing will turn up asymptomatic hosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I don't doubt the research, if it is in fact being reported correctly. There seems to be a lot of opinions in the scientific community. The other thing is that stories like the one you mentioned are fact with interpretation mixed in. People are supposedly honest. But how are we to know if the only part reported is from the infected. People are quick to jump to the conclusion. In theory, the mask blocks all form of transmission. And we have a no-mask no-fly policy in effect. I don't doubt the voracity of the virus, just what is possible. A trace found on a surface is not necessarily contractable. Outdoors is a slim chance of contracting it, if at all. So that really leaves us a couple of scenarios that exist today. New comers to a community. Someone who is still infected breathing on someone else. I'm no expert, but I don't see any other way. We don't have a closed border in Canada. We were at Walmart last week and about a 3rd of the the people had masks on and the rest were like, "Yup, this virus thing is BS!" Ok, I heard one person say it to another shopper as they were passing each other. I think you have a point, and I don't agree with the boarders being open to outsiders and putting people at risk. I think travellers should be limited to very special cases. But I think it's too simplistic to think that it's only travellers that are bringing it in. I like People's suggestion. Shut everything down for a about 2-3 weeks. I think 3 and a half so that it accounts for some lingering affects maybe that we don't know about, or that transmission could occur in the first week of shutdown... Are we that selfish that we can't stop EvERYTHING that we are doing to save some people's lives? Money and capitalism will prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Has the NHL come out with any regulations on hockey gear, helmets with face-shields or anything like that? Should players have to wear masks? Would players get 2 minute penalties for spitting on the ice? Any other ideas on how players could keep it safe in play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Has the NHL come out with any regulations on hockey gear, helmets with face-shields or anything like that? Should players have to wear masks? Would players get 2 minute penalties for spitting on the ice? Any other ideas on how players could keep it safe in play? No, I haven't heard about spitting. There was no change to visor requirements. In theory, only healthy players are on the bench. I would assume that the stringent measures include disinfecting gear. No other rules changes though. Face washes will still be part of the sport. I expect there will be league and house rules about what you can do off ice. I don't believe the NHL will allow eating in restaurants, but that's just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 China reported +50 cases in Beijing and they immediately shut down the entire city. Thousands of flights cancelled. Headlines of the "second wave" were everywhere in media. And then, no more new cases. Meanwhile, Florida reports +2700 new cases DAILY. Let's quickly move to Phase 2 re-opening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 23, 2020 Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 hours ago, travel_dude said: No, I haven't heard about spitting. There was no change to visor requirements. In theory, only healthy players are on the bench. I would assume that the stringent measures include disinfecting gear. No other rules changes though. Face washes will still be part of the sport. I expect there will be league and house rules about what you can do off ice. I don't believe the NHL will allow eating in restaurants, but that's just a guess. I suppose all of that can change as things change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 I was thinking one way Seattle could help us with the refs and the Wideman curse. They could call themselves Seattle CHOP and have (Defund the Refs) in their logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 52 minutes ago, redfire11 said: I was thinking one way Seattle could help us with the refs and the Wideman curse. They could call themselves Seattle CHOP and have (Defund the Refs) in their logo. I was thinking this just today! Seattle Chaz Seattle Rioters Seattle Protestors Seattle Statues Soyattle Boys Seattle Soyviets Seattle Larps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 20 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I was thinking this just today! Seattle Chaz Seattle Rioters Seattle Protestors Seattle Statues Soyattle Boys Seattle Soyviets Seattle Larps How about: Seattle Grunge Seattle Hipsters Seattle Latte Ot everyone's fave: Seattle Troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 So hearing some of the details on why Vancouver is out as a hub city, my confidence in there being a playoffs has gone from about 90% to about 30%. Sounds like the league is inclined to allow players who are asymptomatic but test positive to keep playing, virtually guaranteeing everyone else gets sick. I wouldn’t be surprised if the players vote to spike the season unless something changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: How about: Seattle Grunge Seattle Hipsters Seattle Latte Ot everyone's fave: Seattle Troll Soyattle Antifas Soyattle Knees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 34 minutes ago, ABC923 said: So hearing some of the details on why Vancouver is out as a hub city, my confidence in there being a playoffs has gone from about 90% to about 30%. Sounds like the league is inclined to allow players who are asymptomatic but test positive to keep playing, virtually guaranteeing everyone else gets sick. I wouldn’t be surprised if the players vote to spike the season unless something changes. Just drop the damn puck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 10 hours ago, The_People1 said: Just drop the damn puck I agree. either drop the puck and let it play out or just cancel it outright. You are not going to be able to figure out a plan that works or everyone so just make a decsion and go with it. if players start getting sick and don't want to play then pull the plug like you've already done. This back and forth for all these pro leagues is starting to look ridiculous. I know I sound insensitive but I think that's the reality here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, cross16 said: I agree. either drop the puck and let it play out or just cancel it outright. You are not going to be able to figure out a plan that works or everyone so just make a decsion and go with it. if players start getting sick and don't want to play then pull the plug like you've already done. This back and forth for all these pro leagues is starting to look ridiculous. I know I sound insensitive but I think that's the reality here. 16 NBA players tested positive for Covid. https://www.tsn.ca/sixteen-of-302-nba-players-tested-for-covid-19-test-positive-1.1489813 I feel one league is waiting for the other to see what they do and if they cancel the season first. In regards to the NHL, there's so much money at stake. Not only does the NHL need a new US TV deal in a year, they still have commitments to the current one. TV paid to broadcast games. Hey, no games now. TV wants a refund. I bet all the owners already spent that money. There's no money to refund. They must play the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 12 hours ago, ABC923 said: So hearing some of the details on why Vancouver is out as a hub city, my confidence in there being a playoffs has gone from about 90% to about 30%. Sounds like the league is inclined to allow players who are asymptomatic but test positive to keep playing, virtually guaranteeing everyone else gets sick. I wouldn’t be surprised if the players vote to spike the season unless something changes. The only thing that will kill a host city's chances are that the local health authority doesn't approve of the plans. I got mixed signals from Vancouver's reasoning. As far as a asymptomatic player infecting everyone, the decision to play him or let him practice or be around other players is one a team would make. If the NHL is lax about it, the team still has the ultimate decision. They are not going to jeopardize the team unless that player is key to them having a chance. Even then, it's short-sighted and could result in being forced to ice an AHL team to finish a series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 49 minutes ago, travel_dude said: The only thing that will kill a host city's chances are that the local health authority doesn't approve of the plans. I got mixed signals from Vancouver's reasoning. As far as a asymptomatic player infecting everyone, the decision to play him or let him practice or be around other players is one a team would make. If the NHL is lax about it, the team still has the ultimate decision. They are not going to jeopardize the team unless that player is key to them having a chance. Even then, it's short-sighted and could result in being forced to ice an AHL team to finish a series. I think it is downright idiotic and puts more than just the team in Jeopardy. It places the opposition and the officials in harms way. It places their families in jeopardy as well. I have a feeling this could blow up in the leagues' face if this is how it's dealt with. If player's careers are ruined, this could be akin to a concussion lawsuit, especially since the side and after affects range from minor to severe, and the unknown long term complications, and knowing that there is a possibility of there being some extreme ones could cost the NHL more than the millions they're losing in these TV deals. Maybe not that much. But still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: I think it is downright idiotic and puts more than just the team in Jeopardy. It places the opposition and the officials in harms way. It places their families in jeopardy as well. I have a feeling this could blow up in the leagues' face if this is how it's dealt with. If player's careers are ruined, this could be akin to a concussion lawsuit, especially since the side and after affects range from minor to severe, and the unknown long term complications, and knowing that there is a possibility of there being some extreme ones could cost the NHL more than the millions they're losing in these TV deals. Maybe not that much. But still. Do the basic math https://videos.whatfinger.com/2020/06/26/journalist-lays-absolute-waste-to-ca-officials-for-excessive-lockdowns-this-is-a-smack-down-some-humor-thrown-in/?utm_source=whatfinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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