Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

To be honest I have no idea what kind of coach will work with this work. The fact the prevailing issues with this team, (slow starts, packing it in when the games get harder, lack of attention to detail in their own zone, etc.) have remained through several coaching changes and several different coaching philosophies, tells me the issues with this team aren't behind the bench.

 

I think Treliving needs to find the best coach available and go with that coach, and not worry about finding the best coach for this group. Then in the off season he needs to straighten out his core group.

 

As of right now Laviolette makes a lot of sense to me, just because of the fact that he wins everywhere he goes. A really close 2nd for me though is DeBoer, I thought he did a great job with San Jose, especially getting his team to the 3rd round last year with the leagues worst goaltending.

Flames best candidate for new coach.  Cookies, milk and nap time will be also required before every practice, and everyone gets there full pay and bonuses cause they actually came to practice. Never seen an organization where the inmates run the asylum.  The problem has been around for years here. I love the conroy story of when Sutter took over in 2004. He basically told Iggy and Conroy if that`s the effort your going to put forth, than just sit here and watch the guys that actually want to play to win. In today's game coached would get fired for implying they are lazy. 

[ABC923]

5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

To be honest I have no idea what kind of coach will work with this work. The fact the prevailing issues with this team, (slow starts, packing it in when the games get harder, lack of attention to detail in their own zone, etc.) have remained through several coaching changes and several different coaching philosophies, tells me the issues with this team aren't behind the bench.

 

I think Treliving needs to find the best coach available and go with that coach, and not worry about finding the best coach for this group. Then in the off season he needs to straighten out his core group.

 

As of right now Laviolette makes a lot of sense to me, just because of the fact that he wins everywhere he goes. A really close 2nd for me though is DeBoer, I thought he did a great job with San Jose, especially getting his team to the 3rd round last year with the leagues worst goaltending.

 

This is why I have come around to the idea of trading Gaudreau as part of a mini-rebuild, and maybe more.  There is one consistent over the past few years, and that's the players.  At some point we have to come to the conclusion that it's not coaching that's the problem.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Flames best candidate for new coach.  Cookies, milk and nap time will be also required before every practice, and everyone gets there full pay and bonuses cause they actually came to practice. Never seen an organization where the inmates run the asylum.  The problem has been around for years here. I love the conroy story of when Sutter took over in 2004. He basically told Iggy and Conroy if that`s the effort your going to put forth, than just sit here and watch the guys that actually want to play to win. In today's game coached would get fired for implying they are lazy. 

 

I get fired as a fan for being critical of their game a lot of the time. Albeit overthetop at times. I am a bad but good Stallone movie.  I felt last year we won in spite of a team that wasn’t running on all cylinders all year, but proved to be problematic in the playoffs when nobody was going. Then it followed through to this year. 
 

some don’t agree that I believe teams have just figured the Flames out and know that if you give some effort you can beat the Flames. 
 

 

[CalgarySTL]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I think that's an unfair term. While I didn't agree with the direction Peters was taking the team I also don't think it's a viable excuse for the lack of execution that has been there for most of the season. 

 

Ward has made a few subtle changes but IMO nothing drastic enough that would be a viable excuse that you could attribute to the coaching change. 

I don't necessarily disagree with what you say but, I really hate the dump and chase crap he had going on.... Like, reeeaaalllly hate it. You have to admit we were more dangerous (and more exciting) offensively when they were attacking off the rush. Watching that dump and chase crap, makes me want to throw my remote through the tv.

 

That said, I agree that the execution has been abysmal... They don't even know how to make a tape to tape pass anymore

 

[travel_dude]

The team has disappointed this year for sure.

What I don't get is the hate on for the top players on the team.

Soft, lazy, one-dimensional, no hart, etc., etc.

Justify it with last year's playoff results if you like.

 

4 players are scoring above .7 p/gp.

The rest of the top 9?

In points:

22 (Ryan), 20 (Backlund), 15 (Mangiapane), 10 (Looch), 6 (Bennett).

 

Coaching style and getting away from what they did to win last year is hurting the team.

If you want to rebuild, start from the net out.

Rittich is fine, but has gotten into a funk from being overplayed.

No reason to do that if you have any trust at all in the backup.

Defense.

Some of the best games they have played have had good breakouts and good defensive coverage.

Stone is not playing well enough to sit Kylington.

If you aren't going to upgrade with a top 4 D, then play the heck out of him.

Use him with a vet.

 

(Rant over)

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

The team has disappointed this year for sure.

What I don't get is the hate on for the top players on the team.

Soft, lazy, one-dimensional, no hart, etc., etc.

Justify it with last year's playoff results if you like.

 

4 players are scoring above .7 p/gp.

The rest of the top 9?

In points:

22 (Ryan), 20 (Backlund), 15 (Mangiapane), 10 (Looch), 6 (Bennett).

 

Coaching style and getting away from what they did to win last year is hurting the team.

If you want to rebuild, start from the net out.

Rittich is fine, but has gotten into a funk from being overplayed.

No reason to do that if you have any trust at all in the backup.

Defense.

Some of the best games they have played have had good breakouts and good defensive coverage.

Stone is not playing well enough to sit Kylington.

If you aren't going to upgrade with a top 4 D, then play the heck out of him.

Use him with a vet.

 

(Rant over)

 

but for me it’s not just the playoffs last year that I was unhappy with. It was the lack of a complete team game from the start of the year to the end of the year. For the whole year only one line was doing most of the scoring. And I actually believe teams weren’t trying as hard in the first half. The second half they had an easier schedule and barely beat teams out of the playoffs to win. It’s easy to cherry-pick stats a year later to point out how great the team was, but for me I think the playoffs are more indicative of what the team is. It has shown off and on this year to be the case. And their efforts haven’t been good unless the games are easy.
 

i know we disagree. And it’s probably pointless to continue to debate it. 

 

[cross16]

15 hours ago, CalgarySTL said:

I don't necessarily disagree with what you say but, I really hate the dump and chase crap he had going on.... Like, reeeaaalllly hate it. You have to admit we were more dangerous (and more exciting) offensively when they were attacking off the rush. Watching that dump and chase crap, makes me want to throw my remote through the tv.

 

That said, I agree that the execution has been abysmal... They don't even know how to make a tape to tape pass anymore

 

 

100%. I hated it too and did not agree with the direction Peters had them going. I just don't think it's a viable execution for the lack of execution that's all and don't think its reasonable to expect that to improve due to a system change.

 

I think it has more to do with the focus/buy in of the players then it does the system or a "stink"

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

but for me it’s not just the playoffs last year that I was unhappy with. It was the lack of a complete team game from the start of the year to the end of the year. For the whole year only one line was doing most of the scoring. And I actually believe teams weren’t trying as hard in the first half. The second half they had an easier schedule and barely beat teams out of the playoffs to win. It’s easy to cherry-pick stats a year later to point out how great the team was, but for me I think the playoffs are more indicative of what the team is. It has shown off and on this year to be the case. And their efforts haven’t been good unless the games are easy.
 

i know we disagree. And it’s probably pointless to continue to debate it. 

 

 

I can safely say every fan was unhappy with the playoffs.

Where we all diverge is why.

We had an "easy" schedule to finish off the season, but we had Smith playing a lot of those games.

We lost to non-playoff teams and won games against playoff teams, some of them resting stars.

 

First half iis always going to be feeling out lines and coaches.

We started slow, came on strong, faded a bit then finished with enough wins to get 2nd n the league.

 

The team had and still has issues.

We had a better PP and more points from the D.

This year not so much.

Our PK is better.

 

We can agree or disagree.

It's just dangerous to generalize and say we are bad because of X.

We lost in the playoffs for a bunch of reasons.

We struggled this year for a bunch of reasons.

[WRuCOS]

Is the sky falling? Or is there light at the end of the tunnel? (Glass half full / half empty) 

 

Western Conference, I thought it showed from the playoffs last year that St. Louis, Colorado and Dallas were going to be tough this year. Outside of Dallas poor start - that has been true. The good news is that Las Vegas (from my view) has been worse than expected and I'm quite shocked to see where they are in the standings right now, tbh. 

IF, we can get the 2nd or 3rd seed in the Pacific, two of those central teams will be dead and buried by the beginning of round 3 and the last one standing, will have had to go through one or two of those teams just to get to the Western Conference final (tough series). 

 

As the Flames are currently built, we are in contention and good enough to get into the playoffs. An addition of a player is a must and if they contribute on arrival - we should be a 2nd or 3rd seed. Outside of Vegas, mainly because of Stone, no one scares me in the Pacific, even with the Coyotes getting Hall. 

 

I think Ward has pushed the right buttons since taking over, which mainly has been getting the players back to having fun during practice - I don't know if he will become a HOF coach, but I think the generation of players coming up are different and need more hand-holding and mentorship vs. Iron Mike / Iron Fist. If Tre is able to get a forward or two to bolster the offense, I think its fair to expect Ward wins a round or two in this post-season, if they don't improve the roster, I don't know what Laviollette etc. would be able to do, but I would not be opposed to the attempt at a coach with pedigree coming in to take over this core at the end of the year. 

 

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, WRuCOS said:

Is the sky falling? Or is there light at the end of the tunnel? (Glass half full / half empty) 

 

Western Conference, I thought it showed from the playoffs last year that St. Louis, Colorado and Dallas were going to be tough this year. Outside of Dallas poor start - that has been true. The good news is that Las Vegas (from my view) has been worse than expected and I'm quite shocked to see where they are in the standings right now, tbh. 

IF, we can get the 2nd or 3rd seed in the Pacific, two of those central teams will be dead and buried by the beginning of round 3 and the last one standing, will have had to go through one or two of those teams just to get to the Western Conference final (tough series). 

 

As the Flames are currently built, we are in contention and good enough to get into the playoffs. An addition of a player is a must and if they contribute on arrival - we should be a 2nd or 3rd seed. Outside of Vegas, mainly because of Stone, no one scares me in the Pacific, even with the Coyotes getting Hall. 

 

I think Ward has pushed the right buttons since taking over, which mainly has been getting the players back to having fun during practice - I don't know if he will become a HOF coach, but I think the generation of players coming up are different and need more hand-holding and mentorship vs. Iron Mike / Iron Fist. If Tre is able to get a forward or two to bolster the offense, I think its fair to expect Ward wins a round or two in this post-season, if they don't improve the roster, I don't know what Laviollette etc. would be able to do, but I would not be opposed to the attempt at a coach with pedigree coming in to take over this core at the end of the year. 

 

 

I like this thinking. We have a better chance against our own division than playing a crossover game.  We can be seen as somewhat even with the Canucks and Oilers, while a lot here would say we have the upper hand. The Knights and Coyotes could be debated but I see them as a bit better than the other two, and Vegas should have run away with the division. 
 

as much as I’d like to win the division, our best chance at a Ticket to the 2nd round Is probably as a 2/3 spot in our standings.

[cross16]

Pretty pointed comments from Ward last night. 4th coach now in a row to basically have the same quote.....

 

 

[ABC923]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Pretty pointed comments from Ward last night. 4th coach now in a row to basically have the same quote.....

 

 

It's frustrating, but at the same time I think you could probably find similar quotes from coaches from almost every team from some point in the year.  What team in the league can we look to this year and honestly say they have not yet pooped the bed at least a couple times this season.

[cross16]

17 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

It's frustrating, but at the same time I think you could probably find similar quotes from coaches from almost every team from some point in the year.  What team in the league can we look to this year and honestly say they have not yet pooped the bed at least a couple times this season.

 

While true, how many franchises have 4 coaches in 5 years say the same thing on a fairly frequent basis?

[ABC923]

31 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

While true, how many franchises have 4 coaches in 5 years say the same thing on a fairly frequent basis?

Depends on your definition of frequent I suppose.  I guess I just wonder if we tend to think the flames are particularly special in their inconsistent effort, or if it's a much broader complaint among fans of all teams.  From my perspective, I really don't follow other teams or fan bases, so I don't have a good feel for it.

[Horsman1]

On 12/13/2019 at 4:29 PM, jjgallow said:

 

Ward should have been the coach here a long time ago.   

 

This is my passive-aggressive way of showing support

 

I was always frustrated that it wasn't given to him sooner.

 

That said, I don't think he can save this ship.   A short win-rally is pretty normal after a coaching change but IMHO our problems run deeper than the coaching level.   

 

It's a step in the right direction either way.

our long time core needs to be reset.. Backlund/monahan/brodie/ jankowski/and gautreau 

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

our long time core needs to be reset.. Backlund/monahan/brodie/ jankowski/and gautreau 

 

I think the fly-by thay most of our guys do tell a lot about the team and players

[travel_dude]

I would suggest that Ward's lineups are not much different than BP's.

Some different looks, but nothing wholesale.

The PP is exactly the same.

Something has to change with this.

There is nothing dangerous about it.

It can score, but only if the passes are crisp and the entry is clean or they win the faceoff.

 

Gio should be able to do something, but his decisions seem stale.

Tkachuk is rolling to the wing and supposed to keep the puck in.

The 2nd unit is made up of some of the coldest players on the team.

Only Ryan and Ras seem to be the exceptions.

And they are using Ras on the half boards, while Hanifin, who can't hold the line, is holding the line.

[JTech780]

Gerard Gallant was fired today and replaced by Peter DeBoer. 

 

If Gallant was fired for performance issues, I would be calling that guy today. He is a very good coach, who gets a lot out of his players. I think he would be a very good fit for our team.

[cross16]

I think you can count on 1 hand how many coaches I would drop whatever I was doing to hire if I could get the chance. 
 

Gallant is one of those coaches. 

[cross16]

16 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Depends on your definition of frequent I suppose.  I guess I just wonder if we tend to think the flames are particularly special in their inconsistent effort, or if it's a much broader complaint among fans of all teams.  From my perspective, I really don't follow other teams or fan bases, so I don't have a good feel for it.

I think this is fair to ask. But imo good organizations don’t have this happen as frequent as it does for the flames. I could

be wrong but that’s my feeling on it 

[rickross]

I don’t mind Gallant as a coach, add him to the list of candidates BT!

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I think you can count on 1 hand how many coaches I would drop whatever I was doing to hire if I could get the chance. 
 

Gallant is one of those coaches. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I think that Gallant is the exact coach this team needs. I don't think he is really an X's and O's coach, but I think he has an idea of how he wants his team to play and he knows how to get the most out of players without being demonstrative about it.

 

With this team struggling to show up on time and recover after emotional games, having an elite motivator as a coach might be the way to go with this core.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

The more I think about it, the more I think that Gallant is the exact coach this team needs. I don't think he is really an X's and O's coach, but I think he has an idea of how he wants his team to play and he knows how to get the most out of players without being demonstrative about it.

 

With this team struggling to show up on time and recover after emotional games, having an elite motivator as a coach might be the way to go with this core.

 

I think it would be a good guy to bring in.

But what is the issue with him being the coach in Vegas?

It's not like they were out of a playoff sport for most of the year.

Does he have ideas about players that differ from the GM?

Has the stars complained about him?

 

I just don't get it.

 

 

[The_People1]

I'm getting to like Geoff Ward though.  I want to give him a chance and look for a new coach in the summer if we fail to make the playoffs.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think it would be a good guy to bring in.

But what is the issue with him being the coach in Vegas?

It's not like they were out of a playoff sport for most of the year.

Does he have ideas about players that differ from the GM?

Has the stars complained about him?

 

I just don't get it.

 

It's a head scratcher.  They likely playoff bound and hasn't lost the room.  VGK might have won the division with Gallant.  I don't get it either.

 

Of all the attributes about Gallant, he really seems to play the players who are playing well regardless of who makes more money and stuff.  He doesn't play favorites.  All earned.  Nothing given.  This was what made Bob Hartley successful his first season here before he did the opposite the season after.

 

I don't mind Gallant but I just feel so bad for Ward who has waited this long with this franchise that we just kick him to the curb when something better comes along.  Feels so heartless and wrong.