Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[phoenix66]

18 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

And yet somehow the Flames played over 600 hockey under him.

Consistency is the thing missing from this team.

Maybe it's just me but I wish he would pick a system that the team can play every night.

Turn that into our identity.

If it's a good one, the team will buy in and the wins will come.

Expecting the top line to somehow be great defensively is just wrong.

 

 

 

This is baffling me..   your biggest knock is that he kept starting Johnnys line in the D zone 

Do you really think for one second he did that thinking it would get them scoring ?

No ..its because they sucked in the offensive zone 5v5 and other players were having better success creating and cashing in chances , so THEY got the O starts 

He got them out of there because they were hurting us ...  come power play time , back to front and center 

Playoff games arent where you tray and get someone going .. you do things in practice , try them in game , and if its not working get em out of there ..

I dont care if your name is Rinaldo or McDavid .. if you arent getting the job done , you lose your job .. and someone doing it better than you gets to do it.. simple 

 

That was always my peeve of the others.. they suck.. but just keep throwing them out there .. hoping that sooner or later they will click .

This to me is the responsible thing to do.. do you think a $5M coach wouldn't staple them to the bench ?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

 

 

This is baffling me..   your biggest knock is that he kept starting Johnnys line in the D zone 

Do you really think for one second he did that thinking it would get them scoring ?

No ..its because they sucked in the offensive zone 5v5 and other players were having better success creating and cashing in chances , so THEY got the O starts 

He got them out of there because they were hurting us ...  come power play time , back to front and center 

Playoff games arent where you tray and get someone going .. you do things in practice , try them in game , and if its not working get em out of there ..

I dont care if your name is Rinaldo or McDavid .. if you arent getting the job done , you lose your job .. and someone doing it better than you gets to do it.. simple 

 

That was always my peeve of the others.. they suck.. but just keep throwing them out there .. hoping that sooner or later they will click .

This to me is the responsible thing to do.. do you think a $5M coach wouldn't staple them to the bench ?

 

Whatever.

If you have last change and can start an offensive line in the O-zone, why would you decide to start them more in the D-zone?

You have last change and deciide to play them against a top line?

 

I think any coach worth his salt would look at conditions that improve your chance of scoring and not being scored upon.

Starting the top line with the 3rd pairing in the D-zone isn't a great look.

Either is intentionally sending out the 4th line against the top scoring line. 

[cross16]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

 

 

This is baffling me..   your biggest knock is that he kept starting Johnnys line in the D zone 

Do you really think for one second he did that thinking it would get them scoring ?

No ..its because they sucked in the offensive zone 5v5 and other players were having better success creating and cashing in chances , so THEY got the O starts 

 

 

Here is why it doesn't make sense. He started the playoffs, so up until then they did not "suck" because there were no games, as a defensive line. And then as the playoffs went on longer, and despite the fact that the top line did not get any better in the o zone, he increased their o zone starts. They were just under 40% in the Winnipeg series and for the first 2 games in the Dallas series and then he went back to over 50% including 90% starts in Game 5.

 

His deployment of them doesn't appear to be related to results at all considering he gave them more in face of not great play. It's not one I would roast him for but I think it's fair game to question as it always seemed very strange. 

[89Again]

Its easy to make the case why Ward is back.  I think he did a decent job taking over but I believe the key to his success has much to do with his support.  If we lose some of those guys I’m worried.  You cant help but like the guy, he made a good call shaking Backs up and Talbot was a good call in the playoffs no matter how much I like Rittich.  But... I don’t think he’s an elite coach and I dont think BT wants an elite coach because he’s insecure in his position.  This is unfortunate as BT has made some good calls and I bet he’s pretty sly on deals.  Never the less he probably needs to go for the reason above and when that happens it will eventually lead to the demise of Ward.  They likely are waiting on Conroy whom I really don’t know but I dont get good vibes when listening to him. 
 

We rely too much on guys that have been around a long time and just don’t have an edge.  That Jamie Benn edge.  I will acknowledge that Backs is a great two way Center in the regular season, he’s a decent second line center but he’s not going to lead you to a cup.  The Flames play nice guy hockey, it doesnt work.
 

We just have too many guys that can’t stand up and dish it.  These guys think they try hard but they don’t or can’t.  Mony, Janks, Backs, Ryan and the entire D core. Most of the guys who do have heart are under 6ft. I didn’t include Johnny because he's just too skilled, he shouldn’t have to dish it,  he should play with guys who create space and can dish it or guys that are so skilled the entire line scares the daylights out of everyone (basically with some one as skilled as him, very rare) we don’t have either. You cant have all small guys and a bunch of wimps, no matter how big the hearts are in the small guys.  The D core strikes fear into nobody.  Gio is getting up there and despite his massive heart has never struck fear into anyone.   I am worried if we dont resign Brodie but we need some size and toughness back there and we have no difference maker on D for the PP.  Hanifin has been a major disappointment.  Andersen is good but he’s not ready to be the top D and again no fear into anyone.  Valimaki will be great but he wont be big and no fear.  Finally, I don’t like the goalie head games.  We did well when we had a good solid number 1.  Lemelin, Vernon, Kipper.  Having said this, I fault no one on goalie choice.  Its a very hard call to make.  You could go out and pay big bucks and then the guy loses it for some crazy reason not even related to the rink.  Goalies, very tough, we are probably doing ok.

 

GM and Coach - not easy jobs!

 

In the end Dallas has done pretty well in the Playoffs, we lost Chucky and almost beat them.  The team is still young.  Go Flames!

 

 

 

 

[Horsman1]

1 hour ago, 89Again said:

Its easy to make the case why Ward is back.  I think he did a decent job taking over but I believe the key to his success has much to do with his support.  If we lose some of those guys I’m worried.  You cant help but like the guy, he made a good call shaking Backs up and Talbot was a good call in the playoffs no matter how much I like Rittich.  But... I don’t think he’s an elite coach and I dont think BT wants an elite coach because he’s insecure in his position.  This is unfortunate as BT has made some good calls and I bet he’s pretty sly on deals.  Never the less he probably needs to go for the reason above and when that happens it will eventually lead to the demise of Ward.  They likely are waiting on Conroy whom I really don’t know but I dont get good vibes when listening to him. 
 

We rely too much on guys that have been around a long time and just don’t have an edge.  That Jamie Benn edge.  I will acknowledge that Backs is a great two way Center in the regular season, he’s a decent second line center but he’s not going to lead you to a cup.  The Flames play nice guy hockey, it doesnt work.
 

We just have too many guys that can’t stand up and dish it.  These guys think they try hard but they don’t or can’t.  Mony, Janks, Backs, Ryan and the entire D core. Most of the guys who do have heart are under 6ft. I didn’t include Johnny because he's just too skilled, he shouldn’t have to dish it,  he should play with guys who create space and can dish it or guys that are so skilled the entire line scares the daylights out of everyone (basically with some one as skilled as him, very rare) we don’t have either. You cant have all small guys and a bunch of wimps, no matter how big the hearts are in the small guys.  The D core strikes fear into nobody.  Gio is getting up there and despite his massive heart has never struck fear into anyone.   I am worried if we dont resign Brodie but we need some size and toughness back there and we have no difference maker on D for the PP.  Hanifin has been a major disappointment.  Andersen is good but he’s not ready to be the top D and again no fear into anyone.  Valimaki will be great but he wont be big and no fear.  Finally, I don’t like the goalie head games.  We did well when we had a good solid number 1.  Lemelin, Vernon, Kipper.  Having said this, I fault no one on goalie choice.  Its a very hard call to make.  You could go out and pay big bucks and then the guy loses it for some crazy reason not even related to the rink.  Goalies, very tough, we are probably doing ok.

 

GM and Coach - not easy jobs!

 

In the end Dallas has done pretty well in the Playoffs, we lost Chucky and almost beat them.  The team is still young.  Go Flames!

 

 

 

 

it was the best of times.. it was the worst of times...Ward is now the head coach.. which in turn means.. Treliving has at least one more year here.. Who is he reporting to that okay ed this decision.. Burke and King are no longer making decisions for the Calgary Flames.. Who is the new hockey overlord?? Why would Treliving have any insight into what makes a good coach?? Where did hew gather this expertise?? Yes.. He's good at negotiating contracts.. Maybe amongst the best .. but.. does he bring in new players to play Ward's system?? and what is Ward's system anyway?? Or.. does Ward change his system to maTCH THE PLAYERS ON THE TEAM??does Ward have a say in his assistants or he he merely holding the spot for now??how does Conroy and Gelinas fit in or.. should they??p.s// Loved Reggie.. but wasn't he just Pat Riggins back-up??

 

[89Again]

6 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

it was the best of times.. it was the worst of times...Ward is now the head coach.. which in turn means.. Treliving has at least one more year here.. Who is he reporting to that okay ed this decision.. Burke and King are no longer making decisions for the Calgary Flames.. Who is the new hockey overlord?? Why would Treliving have any insight into what makes a good coach?? Where did hew gather this expertise?? Yes.. He's good at negotiating contracts.. Maybe amongst the best .. but.. does he bring in new players to play Ward's system?? and what is Ward's system anyway?? Or.. does Ward change his system to maTCH THE PLAYERS ON THE TEAM??does Ward have a say in his assistants or he he merely holding the spot for now??how does Conroy and Gelinas fit in or.. should they??p.s// Loved Reggie.. but wasn't he just Pat Riggins back-up??

 

Great to see someone call me out on Riggins but he held the stick the wrong way!! Goalies, never an easy one unless you have a superstar that’s working.  

[JTech780]

So if we are looking to add to the bench, I wonder if Bruce Boudreau would be an option. I have heard that he is looking to get back into coaching preferably as a head coach, but he would listen to being added as an assistant. He has experience, he would be a good guy to work with the forwards.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

So if we are looking to add to the bench, I wonder if Bruce Boudreau would be an option. I have heard that he is looking to get back into coaching preferably as a head coach, but he would listen to being added as an assistant. He has experience, he would be a good guy to work with the forwards.

He was apparently approached about doing that in TO, so its not out of the question 

[cross16]

I think it would be great to add someone like Boudreau to the bench, but if they only paid Ward 900K I think they are going to be in tough to bring in any type of assistant/associate coach that has a lot of experience. 

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think it would be great to add someone like Boudreau to the bench, but if they only paid Ward 900K I think they are going to be in tough to bring in any type of assistant/associate coach that has a lot of experience. 

possibly .. but i believe if its not a head coach .. if the other team is still paying him they have to top up the difference 

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

possibly .. but i believe if its not a head coach .. if the other team is still paying him they have to top up the difference 

 

While true, it is a little more complicated than that as there is still a responsiblity for the coach to get a market representative salary so the new team can't just low ball him and make the other club make up the difference.  Good article on it here https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/quick-shifts-mike-babcock-toronto-maple-leafs-contract-sheldon-keefe/

 

I also believe Boudreau is no longer under contract as he was in the last year of his deal when the Wild fired him so there would be no offset. 

[JTech780]

Boudreau isn't under contract for next season. Cross's point is valid though, as I don't think you are getting Boudreau for under $1m.

[jjgallow]

Ideally the Flames would be able to bring assistants up from the AHL, I'm not sure of their current quality there.

 

Someone should be talking with Dennis Williams (WHL) about a contract either in the AHL or NHL.

 

Bring in Darryl Sutter is a consultant or assitant if coaching experience is sought.   I kid you not.   He's probably itching for a little action by now.   Even just homes games.   It would be vindication for him, he's a damned good coach, better than Boudreau, I'm assuming more dedicated to grandchildren by now though.

[JTech780]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Ideally the Flames would be able to bring assistants up from the AHL, I'm not sure of their current quality there.

 

Someone should be talking with Dennis Williams (WHL) about a contract either in the AHL or NHL.

 

Bring in Darryl Sutter is a consultant or assitant if coaching experience is sought.   I kid you not.   He's probably itching for a little action by now.   Even just homes games.   It would be vindication for him, he's a damned good coach, better than Boudreau, I'm assuming more dedicated to grandchildren by now though.

 

I think they are looking for an assistant to work with the forwards and run the PP. The head coach in Stockton is more of a defensive coach, if I'm not mistaken. Darryl Sutter is the same.

 

Another guy who I think they would take a long look at is Troy Mann, currently head coach of the Belleville Senators. His name has been mentioned a few times for other NHL jobs.

[robrob74]

the one thing I liked about Sutter was that he was really good at making adjustments and counteracting what other teams were doing. That’s what this team had lacked. 
 

it’s great to believe in your systems, but to die by it and not change up things that aren’t working is suicide.

[jjgallow]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

the one thing I liked about Sutter was that he was really good at making adjustments and counteracting what other teams were doing. That’s what this team had lacked. 
 

it’s great to believe in your systems, but to die by it and not change up things that aren’t working is suicide.

 

Sutter was (and probably still is) a brilliant coach.   Not all brilliant coaches make brilliant GMs, as we discovered.  But that's just fine as I'm pretty sure most GMs would make aweful coaches lol.

 

In terms of the Flames looking for help with offensive coaching as opposed to defensive coaching, imho this is just a fantastic way to ensure we're going to have a rebuild soon

[cross16]

Sutter is a master motivator and i would agree if you can get him into your organization in any capacity it's worth it. i don't actually think tactically he is that great a coach and he doesn't really adjust (which is what got him fired in LA) but there is no one better for me in getting his players to buy into what they need to do. Any coach could learn from Darryl. He consults for Anaheim so i'm not sure if he is looking for more.

 

I think the Flames have a heck of a coach in the AHL in Cail Maclean who did an outstanding job last year. I would be fine with a promotion but selfishly they should leave him down there because I think he has a very bright future and would be a candidate for the head coach job in a few seasons. 

 

Ultimately i get the feeling the Flames ae just going to reshuffle the ranks but keep the names. Ray Edwards seemed to do a decent job last year so it wouldn't surprise me if they return the same bench and maybe re assign Gelinas to Edwards old role of player development. Would be a good for Gelly i think 

[cross16]

Flames have not yet confirmed their staff and while I don't expect a veteran name, one that may have been an option is off the table. Paul Maclean going to join the Leafs as an assistant coach. Good PP coach. 

 

 

[JTech780]

I think we have the forwards who are smart enough to play this way. I think the PP is too stagnant, not enough movement. Everyone just stands in their spots on the ice and the puck is moved around the perimeter.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I think we have the forwards who are smart enough to play this way. I think the PP is too stagnant, not enough movement. Everyone just stands in their spots on the ice and the puck is moved around the perimeter.

 

There were games where our PP absolutely dominated.

We were skating and moving the puck within a millisecond at times.

We picked apart defense and scored.

We also almost never repeated that look.

 

I don't know if this was just with Gio on the PP regular season, but they were easy to read.

Gio to Gaudreau.

Gaudreau to Gio to Lindholm.

Back to Gio if no shot.

Players moved less than 6 feet during these passes.

Very seldom a goal.

 

With Gus, there was a lot of lateral movement and much more use of behind the net passes.

Not great but mproved.

Seems to be nothing invested in fixing the PP.

Ward may or may not be a good coach, but lack of adjustments seemed to still be a problem. 

[cross16]

17 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I think we have the forwards who are smart enough to play this way. I think the PP is too stagnant, not enough movement. Everyone just stands in their spots on the ice and the puck is moved around the perimeter.

 

That's not even a PP clip, it's 5 on 5. So much fun to watch. 

 

The Flames could execute this with most of their lines but they'd have to make adjustments. However, passed on everything Ward has said since he took over this is not a concept he would install. He talks too much about point shots and traffic to make me believe he'd be willing to play this system. 

 

Which is really too bad because I think with the right line combos they could pull it off. 

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That's not even a PP clip, it's 5 on 5. So much fun to watch. 

 

The Flames could execute this with most of their lines but they'd have to make adjustments. However, passed on everything Ward has said since he took over this is not a concept he would install. He talks too much about point shots and traffic to make me believe he'd be willing to play this system. 

 

Which is really too bad because I think with the right line combos they could pull it off. 

 

Yeah, and I feel like the point shot and traffic is fine for a 4th line or a less skilled lineup, but ends in a lot of one and done situations for our skilled lines.

 

It's too bad, because as things stand right now, I am not super confident that this coaching staff will be able to put Gaudreau in the best position to succeed.

[cross16]

30 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Yeah, and I feel like the point shot and traffic is fine for a 4th line or a less skilled lineup, but ends in a lot of one and done situations for our skilled lines.

 

It's too bad, because as things stand right now, I am not super confident that this coaching staff will be able to put Gaudreau in the best position to succeed.

 

Agreed and it was a key reason, IMO, why Dallas won that series. Flames could not sustain any zone time so even if they got up the weren't able to defend by keeping the puck out of their zone. 

 

Why i'm so disappointed to hear Ward has no plans to change the philosophy. How they played in the playoffs is not how this team should be playing. 

[Carty]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Why i'm so disappointed to hear Ward has no plans to change the philosophy. How they played in the playoffs is not how this team should be playing. 

 

Sometimes it seems that Wardo is a slow learner...   I hope I'm wrong and he starts to show he can start to learn from his mistakes more quickly than he has so far, but that said I also have my doubts that he will last until the end of his contract if he continues to make mistakes by making poor decisions on basic things that should have been covered in coaching 101 class...

[Carty]

Interesting article on Wardo's coaching philosophy...   https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/flames-ward-looks-lightning-blueprint-revamp-calgarys-gameplan/