Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[Sarasti]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Could be money yes, I wont pretend to know Jersey's budget. From everything I read Gallant is very well respected across hockey circles. The only thing that keeps coming up though is he can be really stubborn and rigid in what he wants out of players. The buzz out of Vegas is the reason they made the decision to let him go was they were clashing on certain players and the fit. Case in point, Vegas got both Gusev and Tatar and Gallant soured quickly on both to the point they had to trade them and see them play better elsewhere. That didn't sit well with the Vegas front office. 

 

 

 

That's a fair assessment, and considering how much they gave up for Tatar at the TDL only to have him play spot-duty in the bottom 6 for most of the 2018 playoffs it's not really surprising.

[Thebrewcrew]

That makes sense, VGK also signed Shipachev for 4.5,  one of the best KHL players and it failed miserably. That being said, every coach on the planet has favourites, so I wouldn't fault Gallant too much for that.

[cross16]

1 minute ago, Thebrewcrew said:

That makes sense, VGK also signed Shipachev for 4.5,  one of the best KHL players and it failed miserably. That being said, every coach on the planet has favourites, so I wouldn't fault Gallant too much for that.

 

That's another good example thank you.

 

And i should add I don't think it makes him a bad coach either or not worth a call. Just a potential theory why he isn't everyone's first call or isn't getting scooped up right away. 

[Thebrewcrew]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That's another good example thank you.

 

And i should add I don't think it makes him a bad coach either or not worth a call. Just a potential theory why he isn't everyone's first call or isn't getting scooped up right away. 

There was a rumour he wanted the Detroit job, which obviously never became available.

 

I thought he'd get the NJ job. Maybe he demanded too much, or just wasn't interested.

 

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

There was a rumour he wanted the Detroit job, which obviously never became available.

 

I thought he'd get the NJ job. Maybe he demanded too much, or just wasn't interested.

 

 

The Detroit situation actually raises more questions for me than the Devils. Detroit seemed like a perfect fit for him and Yzerman would have a really good insight in to how good a coach/person he is. I actually like Blashill and think he is a good coach but if Gallant is truly an elite coach i'm surprised someone like Yzerman wouldn't jump on that. 

 

Just find it all very interesting. 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Could be money yes, I wont pretend to know Jersey's budget. From everything I read Gallant is very well respected across hockey circles. The only thing that keeps coming up though is he can be really stubborn and rigid in what he wants out of players. The buzz out of Vegas is the reason they made the decision to let him go was they were clashing on certain players and the fit. Case in point, Vegas got both Gusev and Tatar and Gallant soured quickly on both to the point they had to trade them and see them play better elsewhere. That didn't sit well with the Vegas front office. 

 

 

 

That's interesting, I could potentially see friction with Gallant and Gaudreau. Though I still think overall Gallant would be the right guy for this team. 

 

For me the biggest issues with this team over the last few years has been their inconsistent effort level. I think getting a consistent effort level and a consistent style of play from his players is Gallant's strong suit, and a player like Monahan could benefit greatly from a coach like Gallant.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Could be money yes, I wont pretend to know Jersey's budget. From everything I read Gallant is very well respected across hockey circles. The only thing that keeps coming up though is he can be really stubborn and rigid in what he wants out of players. The buzz out of Vegas is the reason they made the decision to let him go was they were clashing on certain players and the fit. Case in point, Vegas got both Gusev and Tatar and Gallant soured quickly on both to the point they had to trade them and see them play better elsewhere. That didn't sit well with the Vegas front office. 

 

He also failed to develop Cody Glass... Perhaps threw him into the fire between Patches and Stone.  Clearly overwhelmed the kid.  After that, Gallant went back to Stastny and Glass got kicked to the curb.

 

In terms of stubborn, I do see Vegas keeps their lines intact quite a bit.  Almost same lines all season and only adjust if there are injuries.  There's not a whole lot of room to reward 3rd/4th liners with more ice time.

 

The Flames on the other hand never seem to finish a game with the same lines they started the game with.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

He also failed to develop Cody Glass... Perhaps threw him into the fire between Patches and Stone.  Clearly overwhelmed the kid.  After that, Gallant went back to Stastny and Glass got kicked to the curb.

 

In terms of stubborn, I do see Vegas keeps their lines intact quite a bit.  Almost same lines all season and only adjust if there are injuries.  There's not a whole lot of room to reward 3rd/4th liners with more ice time.

 

The Flames on the other hand never seem to finish a game with the same lines they started the game with.

 

I get there’s a theory that it shouldn’t matter about lines if the whole team plays the same system. For me, playing with different guys every game is no fun. I think even though you’re playing a system, other player’s tendencies still need to be figured out. When the lines go into the blender as often as the Flames do it. I wonder how there can be any kind of consistency. 

[The_People1]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I get there’s a theory that it shouldn’t matter about lines if the whole team plays the same system. For me, playing with different guys every game is no fun. I think even though you’re playing a system, other player’s tendencies still need to be figured out. When the lines go into the blender as often as the Flames do it. I wonder how there can be any kind of consistency. 

 

For team defense yes.  It shouldn't matter who your linemates are because coverage and assignments should apply team wide.

 

For offense, it's so important to keep linemates.  If you play hockey, then you know.  Guys start talking together on the bench and strategizing, etc.  Suddenly you get thrown on the ice with another teammate who you haven't talked to all game and there's no chemistry there.  And you probably don't practice together, etc.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

For team defense yes.  It shouldn't matter who your linemates are because coverage and assignments should apply team wide.

 

For offense, it's so important to keep linemates.  If you play hockey, then you know.  Guys start talking together on the bench and strategizing, etc.  Suddenly you get thrown on the ice with another teammate who you haven't talked to all game and there's no chemistry there.  And you probably don't practice together, etc.

 

exactly! 

[Thebrewcrew]

That leaves DAL and CGY. I really don’t see any other coaching jobs becoming available, unless something happens during the playoffs.

 

I actually think Gallant and Lavy sit-out the start of next season. They won’t have too much of a market this offseason. I see Gallant coaching Seattle

[cross16]

The coaching world in the NHL is getting stranger every year. 

 

Technically SJ is still open as they have not officially hired Boughner even though some close to the team think it's a going to happen. I think more change will be coming, it always seems to. Vancovuer, Arizona, Chicago are all teams where you've read something about their coaches being under the microscope to a certain extent and generally you'll get a surprise or 2. I would look at teams like Carolina, Columbus and Tampa that have a certain probability of surprising us with a coaching change. 

[Thebrewcrew]

I can't see many coaches being fired, especially in such a weird scenario like the bubble playoffs.

ARI- Maybe, but this is all gravy for the Yotes, they wouldn't have had this chance if the season finished.

BOS- nope

CAR- nope

CHI- I doubt it, Colliton is Bowman's guy, they have nothing to lose

COL- nope

CBJ- nope

DAL- yes, Bowness is an older guy, who knows how long he wants to coach for. DAL is in win-now mode

EDM- nope

FLA- nope

MIN- nope

MTL- I really doubt it, they didn't expect to be here. I think Julien gets one more year

NSH- nope

NYI- nope

NYR- probably not, still building that team, exceeded expectations this year

PHI- nope

PIT- maybe Sullivan becomes available if they get swept. Rutherford is in win-now, so I could see Sullivan being on a warm seat, but not hot.

STL- nope

TB- nope, unless they get swept again, even then I wouldn't fire Cooper. 

TOR- nope

VAN- nope

VGK- nope

WPG- nope

WSH- maybe, kinda like PIT, it's all-in for the Caps, failure isn't an option with an aging core.

 

Most teams have either recently changed coaches, or have an established coach that they would look to keep IMO.

 

 

[travel_dude]

Changes to coaching can occur for many reasons after the end of the season.

Some may have been on thin ice due to not making much progress or less results than expected.

Other may look at doing a retool and the current guy is the wrong fit.

Still others may be the wrong coach for the players they have.

If Tampa doesn't go far, how would Cooper survive?

He's had the reins for so long without getting anywhere recently.

WAS and STL and BOS are probably the safest teams to be coaching.

 

[cross16]

I don't disagree with the thought process or what your saying. I do think most firings right now would come as a surprise but i think 2 main variables will lead to some surprises. First being that amount of higher profile veteran coaches that are available (Boudreau, Gallant, Lavy and Babcock) and second with the cap remaining flat Gms will be limited in ways they can "improve" their team. That's why I think there are good chances we'll see a surprise or 2. These rae the ones I have my eye on.

 

ARI - Tocchett only has 1 more year on his deal. Can he survive 3 years out of the playoffs and can that owner handle another year out of the playoffs?

CHI - there are some suggestions a tear down rebuild is coming. Fired their long time president and it seems like Bowman could be next and there's not a lot of positive press around the job Colliton has done. 

CAR - Would be a surprise but Brind'Amour is on record that he doesn't seem himself as a career coach.

CBJ- Torts has done a great job but i think he's always on the firing line to a certain extent....

TB - Coopers a great coach but if the Lightning flounder again what happens next? They are capped out and looking at some interesting coaching options that they could easily rationale are necessary to get that bump. Also appears to have only have 1 more year on his contract according to capfriendly. 

Van - Only 1 year on his deal and working for an impatient franchise. I think his future would hinge on the Canucks at minimum getting into the playoffs and he might even have to win a round. Goaltending has saved what as been a mostly mediocre season for that club. 

 

The other 2 that could be really left field surprised i'm with you on with Pitts and Wsh. I agree that if you look at this rationally there is no need for many of these organizations to make the change but I also think clubs are becoming less and less rationale when it comes to coaching. 

[Thebrewcrew]

NHL coaching has ended up  a lot like the NFL, tons of turnover. If you last 3 seasons that’s a long time

 

Saw the other day that John Hynes is the 2nd longest tenured coach in NJ history. He was on the job for 4.5 seasons 

[sak22]

18 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

NHL coaching has ended up  a lot like the NFL, tons of turnover. If you last 3 seasons that’s a long time

 

Saw the other day that John Hynes is the 2nd longest tenured coach in NJ history. He was on the job for 4.5 seasons 

It is weird, but it was a team that won 3 cups in 8 years with 3 different head coaches.  But its not surprising because Hynes didn't have to work for Lou.  I would say the difference with the NHL and NFL is that the NFL has more loyalty towards the coaches who've built winners.  Jon Cooper is the longest tenured head coach starting in 2013, in the NFL had Belichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh, Payton, Carroll and Reid that have stuck with there teams in that period, all but Reid being over 10 years on the job but all won Superbowls.  Right now there are only 2 coaches that have won a Stanley Cup with the team they are currently coaching, I just find that crazy.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

It is weird, but it was a team that won 3 cups in 8 years with 3 different head coaches.  But its not surprising because Hynes didn't have to work for Lou.  I would say the difference with the NHL and NFL is that the NFL has more loyalty towards the coaches who've built winners.  Jon Cooper is the longest tenured head coach starting in 2013, in the NFL had Belichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh, Payton, Carroll and Reid that have stuck with there teams in that period, all but Reid being over 10 years on the job but all won Superbowls.  Right now there are only 2 coaches that have won a Stanley Cup with the team they are currently coaching, I just find that crazy.

You're right. The coaches that have won in the NFL, end up with security. Harbaugh was on the hot seat, but Lamar Jackson has him sitting pretty again. I think in the NFL there's such a big gap in quality of organizations. There's the coaches you listed, they coach top end franchises. Then there's the Jags/WSH/Browns.

 

Back to hockey, it's really fascinating how coaching has went, pretty much every coach is on a short leash. I found the Gallant firing to be the most surprising recently, I think he was  a victim of VGK's early success, expectations are sky high there now.

[cross16]

Looks like Boughner to SJ is getting closer to being official. 

 

Rocky Thompson a good hire to round out that bench. had a lot of positive buzz in the industry. Have to wonder how much the projected revenue drop over the next few seasons impacts these decision. That's a pretty questionable hire by SJ that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Boughner to SJ is getting closer to being official. 

 

Rocky Thompson a good hire to round out that bench. had a lot of positive buzz in the industry. Have to wonder how much the projected revenue drop over the next few seasons impacts these decision. That's a pretty questionable hire by SJ that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 

 

 

 

What, are they focusing on being tough over being good now?

Are they planning on selling off every decent player of age and doing a rebuild?

Only keep togh guys to protect the young stars?

[Thebrewcrew]

I can't find any contract #'s for Gallant other than his playing career. According to Capfriendly, Laviolette made 2.5 in NSH on his latest extension. Flames were paying Peters 2. I get that the Flames don't typically spend big on coaching and 500k isn't nothing, but I think they could definitely be in the ballpark for either guy. It's just a matter of if they want to be here or not.

 

The Flames aren't that much different than the Preds that Lavy took over. As good a coach as Trotz was, Lavy elevated that team from a "meh" to a club that gets multiple national games a season. He never missed the playoffs as head coach in NSH. Based on his track record, you can pencil him in for 5 years here and probably 5 playoff appearances. 5/5 in NSH, 6/6 if you give him credit for this year, 4/4 in PHI would have been 5/5 but was fired 3 games in, 4/5 in CAR, 2/2 in NYI. To finally drive the point home that he's a winner, he coached 3 seasons in the minors, won a title and went to the conference finals in the other 2.

 

I think if you're Flames ownership and want some stability, you have to open up your wallet. You can cheap out, pay someone 1.5x3, but is it worth it when you're looking for a new coach in 2 years and spending 1.5 on a guy to go on vacation? I get the economy has tanked, but this isn't a short term thing, this is an investment. I feel confident that a Lavy or Gallant can elevate this team and find another level we have yet to see. That's worth paying a little more.

 

If they can't get either, than I'm fine with Ward. 

[sak22]

26 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I can't find any contract #'s for Gallant other than his playing career. According to Capfriendly, Laviolette made 2.5 in NSH on his latest extension. Flames were paying Peters 2. I get that the Flames don't typically spend big on coaching and 500k isn't nothing, but I think they could definitely be in the ballpark for either guy. It's just a matter of if they want to be here or not.

 

The Flames aren't that much different than the Preds that Lavy took over. As good a coach as Trotz was, Lavy elevated that team from a "meh" to a club that gets multiple national games a season. He never missed the playoffs as head coach in NSH. Based on his track record, you can pencil him in for 5 years here and probably 5 playoff appearances. 5/5 in NSH, 6/6 if you give him credit for this year, 4/4 in PHI would have been 5/5 but was fired 3 games in, 4/5 in CAR, 2/2 in NYI. To finally drive the point home that he's a winner, he coached 3 seasons in the minors, won a title and went to the conference finals in the other 2.

 

I think if you're Flames ownership and want some stability, you have to open up your wallet. You can cheap out, pay someone 1.5x3, but is it worth it when you're looking for a new coach in 2 years and spending 1.5 on a guy to go on vacation? I get the economy has tanked, but this isn't a short term thing, this is an investment. I feel confident that a Lavy or Gallant can elevate this team and find another level we have yet to see. That's worth paying a little more.

 

If they can't get either, than I'm fine with Ward. 

Gotta keep in mind Laviolette may not take his next job at the same, he started at 2M in Nashville pre-Babcock and took a slight raise on his extension, which could've been done out of loyalty or wanting to stay in Nashville (wouldn't surprise me if that was as high as they'd go).  If Krueger makes 3.9M I'd be shocked if Lavy or Gallant are willing the settle for less than 5.  I'm not debating the value in paying more, I just don't see it as being only 2.5 to get Lavy now.

[Thebrewcrew]

5 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Gotta keep in mind Laviolette may not take his next job at the same, he started at 2M in Nashville pre-Babcock and took a slight raise on his extension, which could've been done out of loyalty or wanting to stay in Nashville (wouldn't surprise me if that was as high as they'd go).  If Krueger makes 3.9M I'd be shocked if Lavy or Gallant are willing the settle for less than 5.  I'm not debating the value in paying more, I just don't see it as being only 2.5 to get Lavy now.

Yeah for sure. 
 

Coaches salaries have gone up, so he probably should get more. I guess it depends on how bad he wants to coach, there may not be a ton of job opportunities this offseason. 
 

My only real point is, if you’re gonna change coaches, pay the money and get a real upgrade, like Lavy or Gallant. If they intend to go bargain hunting (most likely) then just keep Ward.

 

I am very interested to see what happens with coaching. If they beat WPG, I think Ward keeps the job. If they don’t, I think they have a coaching search. I find a search so fascinating because it’s likely BT’s last hire, will ownership give him the ability to spend, or do they force him to be cheap?

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I can't find any contract #'s for Gallant other than his playing career. According to Capfriendly, Laviolette made 2.5 in NSH on his latest extension. Flames were paying Peters 2. I get that the Flames don't typically spend big on coaching and 500k isn't nothing, but I think they could definitely be in the ballpark for either guy. It's just a matter of if they want to be here or not.

 

The Flames aren't that much different than the Preds that Lavy took over. As good a coach as Trotz was, Lavy elevated that team from a "meh" to a club that gets multiple national games a season. He never missed the playoffs as head coach in NSH. Based on his track record, you can pencil him in for 5 years here and probably 5 playoff appearances. 5/5 in NSH, 6/6 if you give him credit for this year, 4/4 in PHI would have been 5/5 but was fired 3 games in, 4/5 in CAR, 2/2 in NYI. To finally drive the point home that he's a winner, he coached 3 seasons in the minors, won a title and went to the conference finals in the other 2.

 

I think if you're Flames ownership and want some stability, you have to open up your wallet. You can cheap out, pay someone 1.5x3, but is it worth it when you're looking for a new coach in 2 years and spending 1.5 on a guy to go on vacation? I get the economy has tanked, but this isn't a short term thing, this is an investment. I feel confident that a Lavy or Gallant can elevate this team and find another level we have yet to see. That's worth paying a little more.

 

If they can't get either, than I'm fine with Ward. 

 

I'm okay with about 50% of Ward.  I like his pholosophy and he is firm but fair.

He doesn't overplay vets compared to young guys.

What I don't like is his game prep or in-game adjustments.

There's something missing there and hasn't really been there since BH.

We have mostly the same personnel as last year, but I haven't seen things I like all the time.

Sure, it's partly on the players,but I think he doesn't know how to get them going.

You usually see about a period of what the team should be like the whole year.

If they start out strong, the brakes are put on and it becomes prevent hockey.

If they start out behind, he can mostly get them adjusted for the 2nd half or at least the 3rd.

Only some games do you see the same from start to finish.

A good coach shouuld be able to turn that around in the same period.

 

I guess wwhat we have is things happening that de-motivate players before or during a game.

Maybe no caoch can fix this team, though I think only 1/2 the team needs fixing.

Lucic is a prime example, but he worked his tail off to get back in the good books.

Others that remain nameless coast through games.

They compete for 1/2 a shift or give up along the way. 

[cross16]

Rumor building that Babcock is the front runner for Seattle. That makes sense on a number of levels. Laviolette and Gallant in the mix apparently. 
 

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/07/rumor-mike-babcock-to-coach-seattle.html?fbclid=IwAR3z6I723vlTeZ8AjAYbbcpyRifA-3In8Pld21t6aPuZYqAe8e0DpRX-zCw&m=1