Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[WRuCOS]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I give Gallant full credit , he knows how to push buttons . My main drawback on him, is like I stated before, he now is building a history of having a shelf life.. his teams have instant success..then he's fired in or before the 3rd season(typically under mysterious circumstances..which is also troubling)

 

If Ward is to be replaced, I'd be more inclined to go after Laviolette. He not only gets immediate pop, he tends to sustain it.

If Boudreau does end up getting let go, I'd consider him as well..except he still doesn't win in the playoffs

 

Personally I see Gallant in Detroit within weeks 

Re: Gallant and "shelf life", not even George Steinbrenner's Yankees of yester century would fire Gallant at this point - it is absolutely ***anine. The only reason I can come up with for his firing now is maybe it's not about their current standing / recent play but also they believe he isn't as good of a tactician for big games, big playoff series - perhaps thinking that his coaching left something to be desired vs. Washington in the finals two years ago and SJ last year? Because his resume, Vegas only, is impeccable - Seattle will likely play five seasons without getting to the playoffs, Vegas is mad about being a potential Wild Card. 

 

Flames wise, hard to hire Gallant now, but if they limp into the all-star break, come out with losses to STL and the Oilers - then they could certainly entertain the move. 

[conundrumed]

I'd be surprised if Detroit hired Gallant. Blashill was extended in the spring for 2 years. The team is young and he's had a lot of success in Grand Rapids working with the young farm.

His 1st yr as head coach of the Wings was good, then you lose Datsyuk and Zetterberg and it's a full on rebuild.

They're in a marathon at this point, not a sprint. So hiring Gallant wouldn't make sense and goes against Stevie's patience.

He hasn't constructed the team yet, so worrying about a coach isn't the issue.

Cleaning Holland's mess and finding the right types of players is the issue. A new coach won't fix that defence.

[WRuCOS]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd be surprised if Detroit hired Gallant. Blashill was extended in the spring for 2 years. The team is young and he's had a lot of success in Grand Rapids working with the young farm.

His 1st yr as head coach of the Wings was good, then you lose Datsyuk and Zetterberg and it's a full on rebuild.

They're in a marathon at this point, not a sprint. So hiring Gallant wouldn't make sense and goes against Stevie's patience.

He hasn't constructed the team yet, so worrying about a coach isn't the issue.

Cleaning Holland's mess and finding the right types of players is the issue. A new coach won't fix that defence.

and if and when they do move on from Blashill....especially if its in the middle of next year....how about Mike Babcock? 

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd be surprised if Detroit hired Gallant. Blashill was extended in the spring for 2 years. The team is young and he's had a lot of success in Grand Rapids working with the young farm.

His 1st yr as head coach of the Wings was good, then you lose Datsyuk and Zetterberg and it's a full on rebuild.

They're in a marathon at this point, not a sprint. So hiring Gallant wouldn't make sense and goes against Stevie's patience.

He hasn't constructed the team yet, so worrying about a coach isn't the issue.

Cleaning Holland's mess and finding the right types of players is the issue. A new coach won't fix that defence.

 

Blashill still have a good rep as a coach around Detroit? I've always liked him as a coach. Honestly i was thinking Detroit may let him go just so Yzerman can get his own guy and he's someone I would have interest in. 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Blashill still have a good rep as a coach around Detroit? I've always liked him as a coach. Honestly i was thinking Detroit may let him go just so Yzerman can get his own guy and he's someone I would have interest in. 

He's despised. lol

I see Yzerman being patient here.

They're bad, and it's not Blashill. lol.

This is mainly Holland's team...it'll take a while to fix.

[JTech780]

Dallas is the one team I thought might jump at Gallant right away.

[cross16]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

He's despised. lol

I see Yzerman being patient here.

They're bad, and it's not Blashill. lol.

This is mainly Holland's team...it'll take a while to fix.

ya I figured but like you say that roster is a mess. From a far it’s hard to get a good gauge on Blashill as a coach. 

[conundrumed]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

ya I figured but like you say that roster is a mess. From a far it’s hard to get a good gauge on Blashill as a coach. 

Imagine our top 3 D being:

Mike Green

Danny DeKeyser

Jonathan Ericcson.

$12.5mil per.

Hard to even talk about coaching when the roster needs a purge.

The commonality though, is Gallant coaching an expansion team, and Detroit looking like an expansion team.

[LouCifer]

I like Ward. I do. But. Coaches like Laviolette and Gallant don’t become available to us very often. And by “to us” I mean, we’re in a position to hire a great coach while the rest of the league can’t capitalize on the opportunity. And, lest we forget, Ward was essentially passed over by flames brass twice already, so what makes him the ideal candidate now? 
 

Do any of you out there really believe we’re going to see a sudden change in the flames under Ward for the rest of the season? I feel like we all know how this movie is going to continue to play out the rest of the way. To be honest, I don’t even really blame Ward. There’s a comfort level problem among our players that make them feel like they can put in effort when they feel like it. Sure, trading out some players may shake up the group a little, but with the TDL approaching AND Gallant and Laviolette being available, I believe we have a rare opportunity to hit the reset button on the season, and correct our current trajectory for the rest of the way. Let’s aim for the ultimate prize, no? 
 

IIRC, didn’t Lamoriello fire a coach before playoffs more than once and get an instantaneous boost of effort from his teams? Didn’t he win a cup once after he did that? We’re human. When there’s a new boss, we tend to want to impress or let them know our value - which would be a major improvement over what we’re seeing currently from our flames. 
 

I’ve read some comments regarding Gallant’s shelf life, but I have 2 words for you: Kawhi Leonard. I’ve never followed basketball a day in my life until last season, and what I discovered was a team that made a bold move to acquire a talent. A talent that was significant. A talent that was missing. A talent that might not even stick around for the next season. But the opportunity arose to acquire a talent that was better than what they already had. And now all that remains is glory. 
 

I’m not saying Gallant or Laviolette guarantees us a cup, but don’t tell me that sticking it out with Ward is the better opportunity. 
 

Gallant/Laviolette + some calculated TDL moves = an opportunity for better than what we have going now. 

[phoenix66]

12 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I like Ward. I do. But. Coaches like Laviolette and Gallant don’t become available to us very often. And by “to us” I mean, we’re in a position to hire a great coach while the rest of the league can’t capitalize on the opportunity. And, lest we forget, Ward was essentially passed over by flames brass twice already, so what makes him the ideal candidate now? 
 

Do any of you out there really believe we’re going to see a sudden change in the flames under Ward for the rest of the season? I feel like we all know how this movie is going to continue to play out the rest of the way. To be honest, I don’t even really blame Ward. There’s a comfort level problem among our players that make them feel like they can put in effort when they feel like it. Sure, trading out some players may shake up the group a little, but with the TDL approaching AND Gallant and Laviolette being available, I believe we have a rare opportunity to hit the reset button on the season, and correct our current trajectory for the rest of the way. Let’s aim for the ultimate prize, no? 
 

IIRC, didn’t Lamoriello fire a coach before playoffs more than once and get an instantaneous boost of effort from his teams? Didn’t he win a cup once after he did that? We’re human. When there’s a new boss, we tend to want to impress or let them know our value - which would be a major improvement over what we’re seeing currently from our flames. 
 

I’ve read some comments regarding Gallant’s shelf life, but I have 2 words for you: Kawhi Leonard. I’ve never followed basketball a day in my life until last season, and what I discovered was a team that made a bold move to acquire a talent. A talent that was significant. A talent that was missing. A talent that might not even stick around for the next season. But the opportunity arose to acquire a talent that was better than what they already had. And now all that remains is glory. 
 

I’m not saying Gallant or Laviolette guarantees us a cup, but don’t tell me that sticking it out with Ward is the better opportunity. 
 

Gallant/Laviolette + some calculated TDL moves = an opportunity for better than what we have going now. 

can't say I disagree.. its just a tenuous position. Promoted assistants dont usually transition well when again demoted. (see Playfair, Jim)

i couldn't argue hard with the idea of the change, but you(meaning BT) just have to be 100 % sure he's not your guy , cuz you will likely lose him shortly after 

 

also ..associate coaches are typically hired under that premise .. that should anything happen they are next up .. like a head coach in waiting .. so again , you just better be sure 

[LouCifer]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

can't say I disagree.. its just a tenuous position. Promoted assistants dont usually transition well when again demoted. (see Playfair, Jim)

i couldn't argue hard with the idea of the change, but you(meaning BT) just have to be 100 % sure he's not your guy , cuz you will likely lose him shortly after 

I’m sure Gallant and Laviolette have their own guys they can bring in if such a thing occurred. I don’t think it’s a grave concern at all

[Horsman1]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:25 PM, WRuCOS said:

Re: Gallant and "shelf life", not even George Steinbrenner's Yankees of yester century would fire Gallant at this point - it is absolutely ***anine. The only reason I can come up with for his firing now is maybe it's not about their current standing / recent play but also they believe he isn't as good of a tactician for big games, big playoff series - perhaps thinking that his coaching left something to be desired vs. Washington in the finals two years ago and SJ last year? Because his resume, Vegas only, is impeccable - Seattle will likely play five seasons without getting to the playoffs, Vegas is mad about being a potential Wild Card. 

 

Flames wise, hard to hire Gallant now, but if they limp into the all-star break, come out with losses to STL and the Oilers - then they could certainly entertain the move. 

they didn't limp into the break.. theydidn't even show up.. There is something seriously wrong with the make-up of this team that not even God could fix.. Blow it up.. It'snot fixable

 

[phoenix66]

23 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I’m sure Gallant and Laviolette have their own guys they can bring in if such a thing occurred. I don’t think it’s a grave concern at all

I get it ..   i"m just not sold on Ward not having done enough to keep the job .. hes 14-6-1 , thats not brutal 

he changed what wasnt working under Peters , had some mild success , but he didn't break what wasn't already broken , our issue always comes back to hating to lose ..

after break, I want to see Quine and Czarnik back in this lineup ...

 

Both Gallant and Laviolette missed the playoffs their first seasons ... so its not like they're saviors . People are shocked Gallant getting fired being in hunt for 1st .. right now we're tied for 1st..and we certainly weren't when he took over

I just think it sends the wrong message 

[Sarasti]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I get it ..   i"m just not sold on Ward not having done enough to keep the job .. hes 14-6-1 , thats not brutal 

he changed what wasnt working under Peters , had some mild success , but he didn't break what wasn't already broken , our issue always comes back to hating to lose ..

after break, I want to see Quine and Czarnik back in this lineup ...

 

Both Gallant and Laviolette missed the playoffs their first seasons ... so its not like they're saviors . People are shocked Gallant getting fired being in hunt for 1st .. right now we're tied for 1st..and we certainly weren't when he took over

I just think it sends the wrong message 

 

Agree with the last sentence 100%.

I'm not sold on Ward just yet but I personally think he's earned a longer look.

[cross16]

Treliving had a chance to hire Ward as his coach and instead hire Gulutzan. 
 

If he felt he made a mistake he had a chance to rectify it he would have named Ward the coach the rest of the season. He has yet to do that. 
 

I personally don’t see anything in the job Ward has done that would make me disagree with Treliving. He isn’t a long term fit,nor do I think the job he’s done is reflected in the record. 
 

I would move on Gallant if I were Treliving. If he doesn’t want to come then wait till the offseason and do a full search but I’m not really seeing Ward as a good head coach. Looks like he’s one of those really good assistant but not great head coach types. 

[LouCifer]

I get it and I appreciate your responses Phoenix and Sarasti. Ward’s record thus far is pretty good, player execution however is still very familiar... 
 

Just to be clear, this has less to do with throwing Ward into the guillotine and more to do with opportunity. Opportunity for positive change, or opportunity to conclude what we understand about certain members of this core. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Treliving had a chance to hire Ward as his coach and instead hire Gulutzan. 
 

If he felt he made a mistake he had a chance to rectify it he would have named Ward the coach the rest of the season. He has yet to do that. 
 

I personally don’t see anything in the job Ward has done that would make me disagree with Treliving. He isn’t a long term fit,nor do I think the job he’s done is reflected in the record. 
 

I would move on Gallant if I were Treliving. If he doesn’t want to come then wait till the offseason and do a full search but I’m not really seeing Ward as a good head coach. Looks like he’s one of those really good assistant but not great head coach types. 

 

I am with you.

I think BT may have been expecting a good coach to become available, maybe not so soon.

Assuming he would come here, moving Ward back to A/Coach would not b viewed as a demotion.

Interim coach is just that.

[phoenix66]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Treliving had a chance to hire Ward as his coach and instead hire Gulutzan. 
 

If he felt he made a mistake he had a chance to rectify it he would have named Ward the coach the rest of the season. He has yet to do that. 
 

I personally don’t see anything in the job Ward has done that would make me disagree with Treliving. He isn’t a long term fit,nor do I think the job he’s done is reflected in the record. 
 

I would move on Gallant if I were Treliving. If he doesn’t want to come then wait till the offseason and do a full search but I’m not really seeing Ward as a good head coach. Looks like he’s one of those really good assistant but not great head coach types. 

TBH  if a move were to be made, Id be all over Laviolette before Gallant

he's taken 3 different teams to the finals, and has a history of longevity

 

no disrespect , or lack of acknowledgement to Gallant , but.. Vegas was a perfect storm

- a team galvanized over a tragic unfortunate event

- a team of chips derived from " your last team didn't want you "

- some deals made by teams that should never have been made , that handed over Stars

 

Full kudos to Gallant for pushing the buttons and keeping it rolling , but that wasnt all on him .,and again .. he has a mysterious shelf life 

I think Laviolette would be the better change if you're going to make one 

[Horsman1]

3 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

TBH  if a move were to be made, Id be all over Laviolette before Gallant

he's taken 3 different teams to the finals, and has a history of longevity

 

no disrespect , or lack of acknowledgement to Gallant , but.. Vegas was a perfect storm

- a team galvanized over a tragic unfortunate event

- a team of chips derived from " your last team didn't want you "

- some deals made by teams that should never have been made , that handed over Stars

 

Full kudos to Gallant for pushing the buttons and keeping it rolling , but that wasnt all on him .,and again .. he has a mysterious shelf life 

I think Laviolette would be the better change if you're going to make one 

I don't think Ward's here next year.. but I don't see any top notch coach wanting to come here either unless there are guarantees of some pretty major player moves being made.. Scotty Bowman would fail with this bunch of head cases... backlund to the fourth line?? yea//.. that says a lot of where you stand in the coaches books.. backlund/Brodie'gaudreau/Monahan/Hannafin and his partner.. Jankowski.. all non competitive gutless wonders

 

[cross16]

17 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

TBH  if a move were to be made, Id be all over Laviolette before Gallant

he's taken 3 different teams to the finals, and has a history of longevity

 

no disrespect , or lack of acknowledgement to Gallant , but.. Vegas was a perfect storm

- a team galvanized over a tragic unfortunate event

- a team of chips derived from " your last team didn't want you "

- some deals made by teams that should never have been made , that handed over Stars

 

Full kudos to Gallant for pushing the buttons and keeping it rolling , but that wasnt all on him .,and again .. he has a mysterious shelf life 

I think Laviolette would be the better change if you're going to make one 

I certainly wouldn’t complain about Laviolette I just like Gallant more. 

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

TBH  if a move were to be made, Id be all over Laviolette before Gallant

he's taken 3 different teams to the finals, and has a history of longevity

 

no disrespect , or lack of acknowledgement to Gallant , but.. Vegas was a perfect storm

- a team galvanized over a tragic unfortunate event

- a team of chips derived from " your last team didn't want you "

- some deals made by teams that should never have been made , that handed over Stars

 

Full kudos to Gallant for pushing the buttons and keeping it rolling , but that wasnt all on him .,and again .. he has a mysterious shelf life 

I think Laviolette would be the better change if you're going to make one 

 

Two coaches that have gone to the finals.

Coaching maybe isn't the reason for the struggles, but it helps i changes are made that make a positve impact.

We got better goaltending and some scoring.

Not a lot of scoring recently.

Lindholm has been doing a lot of it.

 

The areas that struggles continue to struggle.

 

[LouCifer]

And just to entertain the flip side of the coin, if we decide to let Ward ride out the season as head coach, Laviolette or Gallant may not be available to us anymore for next season. So that needs to be considered as well. 

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I get it ..   i"m just not sold on Ward not having done enough to keep the job .. hes 14-6-1 , thats not brutal 

he changed what wasnt working under Peters , had some mild success , but he didn't break what wasn't already broken , our issue always comes back to hating to lose ..

after break, I want to see Quine and Czarnik back in this lineup ...

 

Both Gallant and Laviolette missed the playoffs their first seasons ... so its not like they're saviors . People are shocked Gallant getting fired being in hunt for 1st .. right now we're tied for 1st..and we certainly weren't when he took over

I just think it sends the wrong message 

This club is mentally soft. Imho either one is an upgrade over Ward. I also regardless of the after math clean some players out. Brodie can bring you a forward, Bennett possibly a Dman . outside of mags, lindy, chucky, ritter, hanifin, valimki dube and anderson, the rest can be traded, the ones on the fence are JG and Mony, something really off with both of them

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I get it ..   i"m just not sold on Ward not having done enough to keep the job .. hes 14-6-1 , thats not brutal 

he changed what wasnt working under Peters , had some mild success , but he didn't break what wasn't already broken , our issue always comes back to hating to lose ..

after break, I want to see Quine and Czarnik back in this lineup ...

 

Both Gallant and Laviolette missed the playoffs their first seasons ... so its not like they're saviors . People are shocked Gallant getting fired being in hunt for 1st .. right now we're tied for 1st..and we certainly weren't when he took over

I just think it sends the wrong message 

To me it sends the rigt message. This clubs core at this time needs to either put up or moved on from. Hartley, gully, Peters, ward nothing has changed. Ones to hard one to soft, Blockchain me when does it end, this club is a gm nightmare. For someone that hates to lose JG and Gio sure are looking pretty comfortsble. This club is tied for 1st because of great goaltending, period!!! So which coach brings you the best d coverage, imho thats laviolete. He also is not a players coach either. I like Gallant but it just seems he gets shipped out at weird times.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, tmac70 said:

To me it sends the rigt message. This clubs core at this time needs to either put up or moved on from. Hartley, gully, Peters, ward nothing has changed. Ones to hard one to soft, Blockchain me when does it end, this club is a gm nightmare. For someone that hates to lose JG and Gio sure are looking pretty comfortsble. This club is tied for 1st because of great goaltending, period!!! So which coach brings you the best d coverage, imho thats laviolete. He also is not a players coach either. I like Gallant but it just seems he gets shipped out at weird times.

 

If we want a defensive minded coach, we netter trade at least one D.

We don;t have the horses.

Brodie can still adjust his game.

Gio will do whatever.

Explain to him he hasn;t got the offense anymore and just focus on defending.

Ras, Kylington are most of the way there.

Hanifin is a study in I don't know.

Hamonic is so slow it's painful to watch.

 

I feel that we had more success when we transitioned fast.

We don;t seem to do that.

No rushes.