2019-2020 Training Camp

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

 

Missed a preseason game to bluff for $200k and an effective 1-way deal, kind of worth it though.  Now he's a risk to start the season in AHL due to Flames over the cap after Tkachuk signs.  It might not even matter how he performs in preseason even if he signed months ago.

 

He needs to clear waivers to go the AHL, there's no way he is starting the year in Stockton.

[Zirakzigil]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Touche.  Brodie and Carter have both had good careers but Carter has the edge with the Cups. 

 

Though, not that Carter has blown Brodie away.  At peak Brodie was a second pair talent and Carter only became a 2nd line Center.  But Carter is the better overall player.  It's sad how fast Brodie has trended down.  

Cmon man.... a Tanguay - Carter - Iginla line. Would of been awesome! 😝

 

Mangiapane was an idiot. He had zero leverage and overplayed his hand. This should of been dealt with this time last week if he was smart. 

[travel_dude]

Glad he got signed before camp went too far.

Mange needs to show he's more than a 4th liner, like he did at the end of the season.

Bennett will need to watch his rearview mirror; Mange is looking to pass him.

Different players, but minutes will go to whomever is consistent and able to take a step forward.

 

The unfortunate side-effect of Tkachuk remaining unsigned is they can't experiment much in pre-season.

I suppose they could opt to have Bennett on the top line RW, Lindy on the 2nd line RW with Mangiapane and Backlund.

But it's pre-season, facing lesser lineups.  Bennett would need to light it up with this kind of competition.

Or at least show that he can handle the slikk of the others, not make them worse.

 

They seem to be stuck on Lucic-Ryan, with someone playing RW.  Maybe that's better for Lucic, but it limits Ryan.

Personally, I think a (4th) line of Lucic-Janko-Dube would make more sense.

You've got a tandem that can skate a little better, but you have a big body that can get them the puck.

That leaves you Mangiapane-Ryan-Frolik or Bennett-Ryan-Mangiapane, depending on who plays on Backlund's line.

[The_People1]

10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

He needs to clear waivers to go the AHL, there's no way he is starting the year in Stockton.

 

We might have to risk it.  There may be no choice.

[The_People1]

9 hours ago, Zirakzigil said:

Cmon man.... a Tanguay - Carter - Iginla line. Would of been awesome! 😝

 

Mangiapane was an idiot. He had zero leverage and overplayed his hand. This should of been dealt with this time last week if he was smart. 

 

I dunno man, by 2012... Iginla was on the rapid decline.  I don't think Carter could've saved him.  Better to hold onto a younger Brodie for a rebuild... right?

[The_People1]

21 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Glad he got signed before camp went too far.

Mange needs to show he's more than a 4th liner, like he did at the end of the season.

Bennett will need to watch his rearview mirror; Mange is looking to pass him.

Different players, but minutes will go to whomever is consistent and able to take a step forward.

 

The unfortunate side-effect of Tkachuk remaining unsigned is they can't experiment much in pre-season.

I suppose they could opt to have Bennett on the top line RW, Lindy on the 2nd line RW with Mangiapane and Backlund.

But it's pre-season, facing lesser lineups.  Bennett would need to light it up with this kind of competition.

Or at least show that he can handle the slikk of the others, not make them worse.

 

They seem to be stuck on Lucic-Ryan, with someone playing RW.  Maybe that's better for Lucic, but it limits Ryan.

Personally, I think a (4th) line of Lucic-Janko-Dube would make more sense.

You've got a tandem that can skate a little better, but you have a big body that can get them the puck.

That leaves you Mangiapane-Ryan-Frolik or Bennett-Ryan-Mangiapane, depending on who plays on Backlund's line.

 

Has anyone had a good look of Lucic at camp?  Is he faster?

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Has anyone had a good look of Lucic at camp?  Is he faster?

 

I went Saturday and honestly my biggest takeaway from the day was that Lucic didn't look horrible. Now I will preface that by saying my expectation was for him to lumber up and down the ice and I didn't see that. he was working with Ryan and Czarnik (i believe) and kept up fine. He has to work harder at it, but he gets there. he even drove wide on Hamonic during one sessions. Undecided if that should make me excited about Lucic or worried for Hamonic though......

 

but before anyone gets too excited the puck was like dynamite when it got to this stick and he still gets shaken pretty easily in short areas by shiftier players. so while I walked away feeling not bad about the north -south speed i'm certainly not trying to build Lucic up here. 

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I went Saturday and honestly my biggest takeaway from the day was that Lucic didn't look horrible. Now I will preface that by saying my expectation was for him to lumber up and down the ice and I didn't see that. he was working with Ryan and Czarnik (i believe) and kept up fine. He has to work harder at it, but he gets there. he even drove wide on Hamonic during one sessions. Undecided if that should make me excited about Lucic or worried for Hamonic though......

 

but before anyone gets too excited the puck was like dynamite when it got to this stick and he still gets shaken pretty easily in short areas by shiftier players. so while I walked away feeling not bad about the north -south speed i'm certainly not trying to build Lucic up here. 

 

I can't see any way that he could play 3rd line or 3rd line minutes at this point.

It just doesn't make sense.

Can he be an enforcer and specialized role player, like adding a netfront to the 2nd PP?  Sure.

Will he be equal or better than 2018/19 Neal?  I seriously doubt it.

And that's a pretty low bar.

But hopefully they aren't expecting 25 points out of him.

 

I could be wrong.

He might be able to finish plays we needed a big in-your-face guy to collect the scraps.

Bennett seemed to have limited success doing that.

Neal had almost no success doing it.

Perhaps the only reason they even need him is for the playoffs.

In that case, play him sparingly.

 

[The_People1]

27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I went Saturday and honestly my biggest takeaway from the day was that Lucic didn't look horrible. Now I will preface that by saying my expectation was for him to lumber up and down the ice and I didn't see that. he was working with Ryan and Czarnik (i believe) and kept up fine. He has to work harder at it, but he gets there. he even drove wide on Hamonic during one sessions. Undecided if that should make me excited about Lucic or worried for Hamonic though......

 

but before anyone gets too excited the puck was like dynamite when it got to this stick and he still gets shaken pretty easily in short areas by shiftier players. so while I walked away feeling not bad about the north -south speed i'm certainly not trying to build Lucic up here. 

 

Thanks, that's good to hear.  I worry he's too slow to keep up with fast linemates but at the same time, you don't want a line of players his speed.  

 

Hopefully Hamonic isn't a "good one year and bad the next" guy.  

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I can't see any way that he could play 3rd line or 3rd line minutes at this point.

 

If he's playing with Ryan then that's kind of the defacto 4th line.

[The_People1]

35 minutes ago, cross16 said:

he was working with Ryan and Czarnik (i believe)

 

I kind of like this combo.  Czarnik has a decent shot and release.  He's just too small and hasn't had linemates who can pass him the puck.  

 

Enter Lucic.  He provides the size and he's got a decent pass from his PP experience over the years.  This could work.  

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

If he's playing with Ryan then that's kind of the defacto 4th line.

 

It's really early, but based on who Peters has been playing with Ryan it looks like me like he is leaning towards that being his 3rd line this year. Jankowski has yet to skate with anyone who you would consider a lock to make the team. 

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

It's really early, but based on who Peters has been playing with Ryan it looks like me like he is leaning towards that being his 3rd line this year. Jankowski has yet to skate with anyone who you would consider a lock to make the team. 

 

For example:

 

 

[JTech780]

 

[cross16]

During his film study Peters mentioned he felt Lucic plays best with a RS center. so for how long remains to be seen, but I think for the pre season your going to see Lucic-Ryan as  pair. I suspect the RW(probably a mix of Czarnik, Mangiapange or Reider) will rotate but I expect Lucic/Ryan to be joined at the hip unless/until it flops.

 

I like it too. I feel Ryan is the better center than Jankowski but being a little smaller I can understand Peters trepidation to play him as one. Lucic helps offset that. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

During his film study Peters mentioned he felt Lucic plays best with a RS center. so for how long remains to be seen, but I think for the pre season your going to see Lucic-Ryan as  pair. I suspect the RW(probably a mix of Czarnik, Mangiapange or Reider) will rotate but I expect Lucic/Ryan to be joined at the hip unless/until it flops.

 

I like it too. I feel Ryan is the better center than Jankowski but being a little smaller I can understand Peters trepidation to play him as one. Lucic helps offset that. 

 

He's no doubt a better C, even if you just look at FO%.

He's also a bit more stright line.

Simplicity.

 

I was thinking Janko might be a good linemate for Lucic, just because one is big with a long reach but soft, while the other is big and tough.

Have 2/3 of the line able to skate and get Lucic setting them up or retrieving the puck.

Or providing a screen when they are cycling.

I dunno.

I just don't see the use of Czarnik with Lucic and either C.

He spends more time falling down.

Just Kidding.

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

He's no doubt a better C, even if you just look at FO%.

He's also a bit more stright line.

Simplicity.

 

I was thinking Janko might be a good linemate for Lucic, just because one is big with a long reach but soft, while the other is big and tough.

Have 2/3 of the line able to skate and get Lucic setting them up or retrieving the puck.

Or providing a screen when they are cycling.

I dunno.

I just don't see the use of Czarnik with Lucic and either C.

He spends more time falling down.

Just Kidding.

I think Czarnik could be the odd man out, but also willing to wait and see. This year he comes in knowing what to expect and saying he's much better prepared than last year's uncertainty.

BT has had a less than optimal off season imo. And he constantly plays the hold out for leverage card which has gotten really tiring.

I hope this doesn't turn into the season where goaltending falters. Because that would be the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

So who's better, Mangia or Czarnik?

[JTech780]

 

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think Czarnik could be the odd man out, but also willing to wait and see. This year he comes in knowing what to expect and saying he's much better prepared than last year's uncertainty.

BT has had a less than optimal off season imo. And he constantly plays the hold out for leverage card which has gotten really tiring.

I hope this doesn't turn into the season where goaltending falters. Because that would be the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

So who's better, Mangia or Czarnik?

 

Who's better?

Haven't seen wither this year.

Last year, I gave the edge to Mange because he seemed to figure it out.

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

By some accounts, Gawdin and Phillips are the first call-up options at this point.

At this point means nothing.

I think it's smart to play Lucic with Pelltier, just to have protection for our smallest player.

They seem to be giving AMac a decent shot at making the team.

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I think Czarnik could be the odd man out, but also willing to wait and see. This year he comes in knowing what to expect and saying he's much better prepared than last year's uncertainty.

BT has had a less than optimal off season imo. And he constantly plays the hold out for leverage card which has gotten really tiring.

I hope this doesn't turn into the season where goaltending falters. Because that would be the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

So who's better, Mangia or Czarnik?

 

I really like Czarnk's ability to shoot the puck, but IMO Mangiapange. His speed is such a weapon from the bottom 6 IMO. 

[conundrumed]

46 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I really like Czarnk's ability to shoot the puck, but IMO Mangiapange. His speed is such a weapon from the bottom 6 IMO. 

So in that sense, Mangia shouldn't really be put down for hoping he could hold out for a 1-way. I get all of the semantics around it, but I'd assume he has to think Czarnik got the contract that Mangia feels he earned. I get the UFA vs RFA thing and bargaining positions, but still.

I'm starting to look at Treliving in a different light. He does stuff in UFA that you can look and say is a disaster. He plucks and over-extends in UFA and leaves me thinking, you've just diminished that youngster's (whomever) chance to have an impact. The "just in case" ufa signings tend to blow up in his face.

So Mangiapane on a 2 way now, it's going to be the same sad story, You made the team, but you're the easiest to send to the A.

And goaltending has generally be in crises mode since BT arrived.

My eye is getting a lot sterner on him now. He's not believing in the system is my biggest complaint. You have what you have, and it's pretty darn good.

Promote from within, and shelter those guys, and don't go sideways when they falter. Teach and grow.

As an aside, super excited Stevie Y took over the Wings and cap jail will dissipate from Holland's constant vertigo with the cap world.

And Holland took his constant cap problems to the Oilers.

Cap = live within your means. Don't trade picks, you're going to need them.

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So in that sense, Mangia shouldn't really be put down for hoping he could hold out for a 1-way. I get all of the semantics around it, but I'd assume he has to think Czarnik got the contract that Mangia feels he earned. I get the UFA vs RFA thing and bargaining positions, but still.

 

 

I don't put down the player, I put down the agent. Agent's job to get the best deal and understand the marketplace and Mangiapane's was off. Don't think the player should get the critcism but the agent for sure should.

 

End of the day this is the system the NHL set up and Treliving is just maximizing value with the system. The CBA essentially lays out that until you are more proven you don't have negotiating power and the team has the control. Once you get your service time then you can argue your worth and it turns into a free market. I think Treliving has a great understanding of the marketplace and the system and uses it successfully with his RFAs. 

 

UFA is different but it's supposed to be. The key is not needing to use UFA and that's a lesson I wish Treliving would have learned by now. I understand why it's happened but I don't agree with it. 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So in that sense, Mangia shouldn't really be put down for hoping he could hold out for a 1-way. I get all of the semantics around it, but I'd assume he has to think Czarnik got the contract that Mangia feels he earned. I get the UFA vs RFA thing and bargaining positions, but still.

I'm starting to look at Treliving in a different light. He does stuff in UFA that you can look and say is a disaster. He plucks and over-extends in UFA and leaves me thinking, you've just diminished that youngster's (whomever) chance to have an impact. The "just in case" ufa signings tend to blow up in his face.

So Mangiapane on a 2 way now, it's going to be the same sad story, You made the team, but you're the easiest to send to the A.

And goaltending has generally be in crises mode since BT arrived.

My eye is getting a lot sterner on him now. He's not believing in the system is my biggest complaint. You have what you have, and it's pretty darn good.

Promote from within, and shelter those guys, and don't go sideways when they falter. Teach and grow.

As an aside, super excited Stevie Y took over the Wings and cap jail will dissipate from Holland's constant vertigo with the cap world.

And Holland took his constant cap problems to the Oilers.

Cap = live within your means. Don't trade picks, you're going to need them.

 

I don't know that demotion is a reality, since he would get claimed off waivers in a minute.

I do tend to agree with the UFA's (he's signed) mostly being a waste and the relative price paid versus bottom 6 Flames player deals is annoying.

Versteeg was a better signing than Neal, and he wasn't even a Flames PTO.

In the end we get Lucic for Neal money, which was overpayment at the time.

 

Stone being re-signed was a joke.

I don't see him being at all better than Kylington.

Just me, I suppose.

He wasn't better when he was healthy.

AMac may be fine, but I don't think he should be on the team over Kylington.

If you need him, fine.

At this point they don't need him.

Not until Kylington shows he can't take the job out of camp.

 

 

[conundrumed]

I agree that he should lose Winters. But in the sense it should have been a softer negotiation.

$850,000 on a 1 way is not a heavy ask, when your system is working.

Or better, when you believe in your system and stop throwing wrenches into it.

UFA is an insurance policy, Is how I would treat it. Overpays every time.

We somehow bungled our way into 4 years of Lucic...yet can't draft anyone over 5'11...

Big time mixed message for me.

I've loved Rittich from Day 1, he has to be the guy for us, imo.

That would be a huge win for BT, imo.