2019-20 ROSTER PLANNING

[Thebrewcrew]

Only 3 games in, but not a peep from our secondary scoring. Hanifin scores but he plays top 4 mins, which I equate to a 2nd line forward scoring. Still early, but the bottom 6 lines are a mess, need to get it figured out so they can chip in on nights when the big guys are shut down 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I think it’s a matter of slotting players properly. Like you said in another post, it is early. I just hope they can find their mix and run with it. 

 

The slow starts are concerning. I don’t know if the Flames will get any easy games this year. Being best in the West last year might make them a team for others to get up for. Starting slow might put us behind in a lot of games. 

 

Not a lot of context for a projection.

Taking two penalties against COL in the first 5 minutes of play in game 1.

Getting out of the period tied.

The worst possible period for the Flames in game 3.

Down 3 before they battle back.

 

 

[travel_dude]

One thing I find annoying is for all the noise and hype that goes with skating onto the ice, the anthem puts playsers to sleep.

Get all fired up and listen to a flat singing of two anthems.

Zero emotion to it.

Fans asleep by the time it's done.

A hated the guy in VAN, but at least he got the fans going.

Same with the guy in BOS up to last year.

Canyon was the worst, but the reokacement is not any better.

 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not a lot of context for a projection.

Taking two penalties against COL in the first 5 minutes of play in game 1.

Getting out of the period tied.

The worst possible period for the Flames in game 3.

Down 3 before they battle back.

 

 

 

 

I am not taking only three games, I am thinking historically for this group. It isn’t a trend for this year, it is a trend ever since this core has been together.

 

i get every year is different, but to me, that has more to do with excuses. We will be 10 games in and probably still trying to figure it out. We did that with year 2 of GG and it looks eerily similar with BP.

 

the only constant is the first line is figured out.

[GM_3300]

12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I am not taking only three games, I am thinking historically for this group. It isn’t a trend for this year, it is a trend ever since this core has been together.

 

i get every year is different, but to me, that has more to do with excuses. We will be 10 games in and probably still trying to figure it out. We did that with year 2 of GG and it looks eerily similar with BP.

 

the only constant is the first line is figured out.

Bottom line is this team is no better off than last year's team, it may even be a tad worse with Valimaki out. I like that Peters is trying Mangiapane and Bennett as RW options on these middle lines but hard to say 3 games in if either is any better of an option than Frolik over time. I like Mangiapane with Backlund and Tkachuk because he is more of a scoring threat than Bennett, plus I think he is the smarter player. I would prefer to see a 3rd line of Bennett, Ryan, Frolik using all 3 players in familiar positions.

Also I have to say bring back Stone was just stupid.

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I am not taking only three games, I am thinking historically for this group. It isn’t a trend for this year, it is a trend ever since this core has been together.

 

i get every year is different, but to me, that has more to do with excuses. We will be 10 games in and probably still trying to figure it out. We did that with year 2 of GG and it looks eerily similar with BP.

 

the only constant is the first line is figured out.

 

Because something happened this year during the first three games (in your opinion), this is the same problems we have had for 3 years now?

Being outplayed in a game is concerning, but I don't think the conclusion is we have the exact same problems as the last three years.

Is it a trend?

Or are you injecting your concerns?

 

Trending says that Neals scores 164 goals this season.

The Oilers will be undefeated.

Bennett will score zero goals.

Lucic will have 60 fights.

[Horsman1]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

One thing I find annoying is for all the noise and hype that goes with skating onto the ice, the anthem puts playsers to sleep.

Get all fired up and listen to a flat singing of two anthems.

Zero emotion to it.

Fans asleep by the time it's done.

A hated the guy in VAN, but at least he got the fans going.

Same with the guy in BOS up to last year.

Canyon was the worst, but the reokacement is not any better.

 

where is susan smith??

 

[Horsman1]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Because something happened this year during the first three games (in your opinion), this is the same problems we have had for 3 years now?

Being outplayed in a game is concerning, but I don't think the conclusion is we have the exact same problems as the last three years.

Is it a trend?

Or are you injecting your concerns?

 

Trending says that Neals scores 164 goals this season.

The Oilers will be undefeated.

Bennett will score zero goals.

Lucic will have 60 fights.

kool.. i wanna see 60 Lucic fights

 

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Because something happened this year during the first three games (in your opinion), this is the same problems we have had for 3 years now?

Being outplayed in a game is concerning, but I don't think the conclusion is we have the exact same problems as the last three years.

Is it a trend?

Or are you injecting your concerns?

 

Trending says that Neals scores 164 goals this season.

The Oilers will be undefeated.

Bennett will score zero goals.

Lucic will have 60 fights.

 

They talk about it on the Fan too. I don’t think I am the only one who sees this as a trend. Trends can continue from year to year to year, it’s called a trend.

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

They talk about it on the Fan too. I don’t think I am the only one who sees this as a trend. Trends can continue from year to year to year, it’s called a trend.

 

While I respect their knowledge of hockey through countless games of commentating, I don't think they are right in everything they say.

They have some good points, but their conclusions are off at times.

 

We've both watched 3 games.

One we took a penalty after 10 seconds.

The next penalty came after 4 minutes.

Another game the first penalty was after 33 seconds.

In both cases we were chasing to start because of that.

The 3rd game was just pityful.

 

You see a trend continuing from last season.

[The_People1]

On 10/9/2019 at 9:30 PM, robrob74 said:

I am not taking only three games, I am thinking historically for this group. It isn’t a trend for this year, it is a trend ever since this core has been together.

 

Got upset in the playoffs by Colorado. 

Get a chance at redemption in first game of regular season and didn't show up with any enthusiasm.

Beat a bad Canucks team half trying.

Tried even less against LA Kings.

Turned it on against DAL in late game.

 

We are so good WHEN WE WANT TO BE.  We seem to struggle against what we think are the "lesser teams".  Take them too lightly.  Drowning in our own hype. Want to coast through the easy games.  Only want to show up for the big games.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Got upset in the playoffs by Colorado. 

Get a chance at redemption in first game of regular season and didn't show up with any enthusiasm.

Beat a bad Canucks team half trying.

Tried even less against LA Kings.

Turned it on against DAL in late game.

 

We are so good WHEN WE WANT TO BE.  We seem to struggle against what we think are the "lesser teams".  Take them too lightly.  Drowning in our own hype. Want to coast through the easy games.  Only want to show up for the big games.

 

This is great.

 

We talk a lot about skill sets, Can Monahan get faster, can the Flames get tougher, can Lucic make them feel bigger, do we need a 2nd line RW etc etc etc.My only questions for this team for a few years now has been how bad does the core want to win and can this core collectively raise it's game when it's needed. If anything is going to sink the Flames in 19-20 it's this. 

 

Now i'm NOT taking anything from the first few games as I don't really care. For me the first 10 games of a regular season or an extension of the pre-season so my opinion will not be swayed either way. But going forward this is, IMO of course, the only questions worth asking and the only one worth monitoring because their roster is irrelevant if their core can't figure it out. I've got concerns but there is time for them to prove us wrong. 

[The_People1]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is great.

 

We talk a lot about skill sets, Can Monahan get faster, can the Flames get tougher, can Lucic make them feel bigger, do we need a 2nd line RW etc etc etc.My only questions for this team for a few years now has been how bad does the core want to win and can this core collectively raise it's game when it's needed. If anything is going to sink the Flames in 19-20 it's this. 

 

Now i'm NOT taking anything from the first few games as I don't really care. For me the first 10 games of a regular season or an extension of the pre-season so my opinion will not be swayed either way. But going forward this is, IMO of course, the only questions worth asking and the only one worth monitoring because their roster is irrelevant if their core can't figure it out. I've got concerns but there is time for them to prove us wrong. 

 

Look at VGK. 

 

They've been to the Finals.  They feel they are an even better team now.  They got literally robbed in the playoffs by SJ/Refs and they completely destroyed SJ in the first two games of the season to make a statement.  VGK has "it".

 

I know it was game 1 of the regular season but it was against Colorado.  Do we not train all summer to make a statement against Colorado?  Do we hate to lose to these guys or what?  Where's the passion?  Did this team go into off-season training mad?  Nope, just went into game 1 against generic opponent going through the motions.

 

I remember Craig Conroy's post elimination interview on FAN960.  He said something like, "if we tried hard and lost, then we can identify our weakness and address that in the off-season.  But if we lost because we didn't even try, then what do we have?  A bunch of guys who... don't care?"  This start can't go over well with management.

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Got upset in the playoffs by Colorado. 

Get a chance at redemption in first game of regular season and didn't show up with any enthusiasm.

Beat a bad Canucks team half trying.

Tried even less against LA Kings.

Turned it on against DAL in late game.

 

We are so good WHEN WE WANT TO BE.  We seem to struggle against what we think are the "lesser teams".  Take them too lightly.  Drowning in our own hype. Want to coast through the easy games.  Only want to show up for the big games.

 

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is great.

 

We talk a lot about skill sets, Can Monahan get faster, can the Flames get tougher, can Lucic make them feel bigger, do we need a 2nd line RW etc etc etc.My only questions for this team for a few years now has been how bad does the core want to win and can this core collectively raise it's game when it's needed. If anything is going to sink the Flames in 19-20 it's this. 

 

Now i'm NOT taking anything from the first few games as I don't really care. For me the first 10 games of a regular season or an extension of the pre-season so my opinion will not be swayed either way. But going forward this is, IMO of course, the only questions worth asking and the only one worth monitoring because their roster is irrelevant if their core can't figure it out. I've got concerns but there is time for them to prove us wrong. 

 

 

I actually believe this this is the root of my displeasure with the team too. I mean everything I critique on are parts of their game, but I think it boils down to the “try” factor.

 

when the team is engaged they can beat any team. When not, they look like a lottery team. 

 

Although, it is hard to assess whether they can defend and keep up with skilled and fast players. Biggest memories are Avs and Elias Pettersson. 

 

Benn usually is a Flames killer, so we did well last night. 

 

I really think it boils down to Killer Instinct. Because I think that’s what good teams have. And champs have it more than others. Part of that I guess is timing and momentary swagger.

[cross16]

40 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Look at VGK. 

 

They've been to the Finals.  They feel they are an even better team now.  They got literally robbed in the playoffs by SJ/Refs and they completely destroyed SJ in the first two games of the season to make a statement.  VGK has "it".

 

I know it was game 1 of the regular season but it was against Colorado.  Do we not train all summer to make a statement against Colorado?  Do we hate to lose to these guys or what?  Where's the passion?  Did this team go into off-season training mad?  Nope, just went into game 1 against generic opponent going through the motions.

 

I remember Craig Conroy's post elimination interview on FAN960.  He said something like, "if we tried hard and lost, then we can identify our weakness and address that in the off-season.  But if we lost because we didn't even try, then what do we have?  A bunch of guys who... don't care?"  This start can't go over well with management.

 

I won't go this far. and I think it's far too simplistic. No i don't think they trained all off season for a shot at Colorado because I think don't think that was a primary motivator. The narrative coming out of the playoffs was not Colorado beat us, it was " are the Flames a playoff team" "we beat ourselves" "we didn't show up" etc etc etc. If they had played their best against Colorado and Colorado beat them, then yes I would have expected a more motivated Flames team but I just don't think that is the motivation. The motivation, or story, this year is they want to prove to people they can get this done in the playoffs.

 

This is why I said at the end of last season I thought the regular season would be a challenge for the Flames this year because it almost doesn't matter. yes, obviously I know that you have to get there first so it does "matter" but therin lies the challenge the Flames have. Their regular season won't really matter because no one will care. They could put up 110 plus points and it would still be "but yeah are you a playoff team" or they can just sneak in and it will be "but ok are you a playoff team". I don't think the Flames can answer any questions about their team in the regular season and therefore it's going to be present a challenge they need to overcome over a long season. 

 

This happens and i've seen it in other leagues and teams so that's why I don't personally think its fair or right to read into a few games. Conroy is right though, that is presents a huge challenge going forward for the management team if in fact this team can't get it done. I'm not really that surprised by the slowish start. 

[JTech780]

Setting aside the LA, where the team was just plain bad for most of the game, the rest of the games I think the effort was there. 

 

The issue I am seeing early in the season is that Colorado gave the rest of the NHL the template on how to beat us. Attack with speed and a heavy forecheck, we just have been struggling to adapt to the way teams have been game planning against us.

 

We are trying to do the same things that worked for us last regular season, but the rest of the NHL gas adjusted to that, so now we have to adjust our game, mostly our break outs, in response.

 

The other area we need a lot of work is the PK, way too passive, we are at our best when we are aggressive on the puck, especially when the puck is at the top of the zone.

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I won't go this far. and I think it's far too simplistic. No i don't think they trained all off season for a shot at Colorado because I think don't think that was a primary motivator. The narrative coming out of the playoffs was not Colorado beat us, it was " are the Flames a playoff team" "we beat ourselves" "we didn't show up" etc etc etc. If they had played their best against Colorado and Colorado beat them, then yes I would have expected a more motivated Flames team but I just don't think that is the motivation. The motivation, or story, this year is they want to prove to people they can get this done in the playoffs.

 

This is why I said at the end of last season I thought the regular season would be a challenge for the Flames this year because it almost doesn't matter. yes, obviously I know that you have to get there first so it does "matter" but therin lies the challenge the Flames have. Their regular season won't really matter because no one will care. They could put up 110 plus points and it would still be "but yeah are you a playoff team" or they can just sneak in and it will be "but ok are you a playoff team". I don't think the Flames can answer any questions about their team in the regular season and therefore it's going to be present a challenge they need to overcome over a long season. 

 

This happens and i've seen it in other leagues and teams so that's why I don't personally think its fair or right to read into a few games. Conroy is right though, that is presents a huge challenge going forward for the management team if in fact this team can't get it done. 

 

I think both our takes are related and essentially boils down to the same thing.  We are looking for that killer instinct and that championship mentality.

 

We have to prove we can show up when it matters... and it begins to consume our team... so we ONLY show up when it matters.  Against the Canucks, Kings, nah, don't need to show up.  Wait for the Blues, Lightnings, Bruins, Leafs, Preds, Avs... oh wait, failed that test already.  Meanwhile risk dropping critical points against lesser teams and we miss the playoffs.  Yups.  I know.  It happens and we are at high risk for that.

 

That's why we lost to the Avs in the playoffs in the first place.  We were looking ahead to the second round and we never got there.  Now, we are looking ahead to the playoffs... 

[JTech780]

Ryan is off to a slow start again this year, I had hoped he would start they way he finished.

 

I would look at using Bennett as the 3rd line center for a few games.

 

Mangiapane-Bennett-Czarnik

 

That line has the skill to do some damage, but can any of them put it together to make a difference. I think they just need a game or two to get it going in the right direction.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Ryan is off to a slow start again this year, I had hoped he would start they way he finished.

 

I would look at using Bennett as the 3rd line center for a few games.

 

Mangiapane-Bennett-Czarnik

 

That line has the skill to do some damage, but can any of them put it together to make a difference. I think they just need a game or two to get it going in the right direction.

 

I liked the way Bennett was pushing up ice tonight, using line mates and trailing D.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I liked the way Bennett was pushing up ice tonight, using line mates and trailing D.

Was he at C the entire game?

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Ryan is off to a slow start again this year, I had hoped he would start they way he finished.

 

I would look at using Bennett as the 3rd line center for a few games.

 

Mangiapane-Bennett-Czarnik

 

That line has the skill to do some damage, but can any of them put it together to make a difference. I think they just need a game or two to get it going in the right direction.

 

I am starting to warm up to using Bennett at C.

Mostly because he looks lost on the wing.

I would opt for Ryan on wing, as he and Mangiapane had chemistry.

Also gives him half the faceoffs.

The 4th line is Lucic-Janko-Rieder (or Czarnik).

2/3 of the line can skate and shoot, while the other plays a board game.

[89Again]

At least we know that if they give Bennett a shot, the second something looks wrong they will fold on him and put him back on the 4th line.  They’ve done a great job of keeping his head spinning.  I think giving him a solid shot at 3rd line centre is a good option but if that doesn’t pan out - trade him. 

[robrob74]

13 hours ago, 89Again said:

At least we know that if they give Bennett a shot, the second something looks wrong they will fold on him and put him back on the 4th line.  They’ve done a great job of keeping his head spinning.  I think giving him a solid shot at 3rd line centre is a good option but if that doesn’t pan out - trade him. 

 

 

Samw old same old. 

 

I think its why he shouldve been in the AHL for awhile. If they can’t handle his play here, they should have had him in the A to learn his game. Wasting talent. 

 

Its why Dube isn’t here, he isn’t ready. And it’s better than him jumping around on the line. 

 

I think BP needed to stick with something in preseason, get chemistry but this year looks a lot like last year, figuring out his bottom 6, and Frolik.

[JTech780]

 

Backlund blocked a shot in the game last night, but finished the game , assuming he is back in on Thursday, have to wonder if Jankowski sits again. He didn't really respond after the last healthy scratch. I think Rieder does just as much on the PK and brings more speed to the table.

[Horsman1]

On 10/11/2019 at 11:23 AM, JTech780 said:

Setting aside the LA, where the team was just plain bad for most of the game, the rest of the games I think the effort was there. 

 

The issue I am seeing early in the season is that Colorado gave the rest of the NHL the template on how to beat us. Attack with speed and a heavy forecheck, we just have been struggling to adapt to the way teams have been game planning against us.

 

We are trying to do the same things that worked for us last regular season, but the rest of the NHL gas adjusted to that, so now we have to adjust our game, mostly our break outs, in response.

 

The other area we need a lot of work is the PK, way too passive, we are at our best when we are aggressive on the puck, especially when the puck is at the top of the zone.

these are coaching issues