GM_3300 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, cross16 said: At this point, i don't agree with the idea that the Flames lack depth to the point they should break up the top line. I understand the hesitation based on last year but it's a new year and you've got guys like Mangiapane, Bennett and Lucic that all have an opportunity to give you more than what you got last year out of it. You can Reider to that to a certain extent. there is more skill and more opportunity there so to me it makes perfect sense to let that group try it first. If it doesn't work then you can look at moving guys down the lineup but at this point I don't see the desire to spread out scoring. Should they keep the top lie together I think they have to move Frolik away from Backlund and go with Bennett on RW. Frolik has half a foot out the door however I think he could really help a line of Mangiapane and Ryan. If you use Bennett with Mangiapane and Ryan you are asking for more of the same from him Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett Mangiapane, Ryan, Frolik Lucic, Jankowski, Rieder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Count me as one that is happy that we were able to make it work WITH Frolik and Brodie. We have last year's Calder pairing and one of our best lines in 3M, intact. I honestly don't care about contract status, ice your best foot forward. And Brodie takes waaay too much slack for covering for Gio like JBo used to have to. Hard for me to imagine Gio with a Calder without a good skater like Brodie covering his step-ups, constantly. Does he screw it up too often? I don't think so. His role is to let Gio go, so Brodie likely has the toughest assignment every game. TJ Brodie just has the incredibly unfortunate luck that his screw ups always seem to wind up in the back of the net or something. People see it and just assume he's terrible. I would bet if you actually watched the D core for errors, ignoring the result of the error, Brodie does not make more than his fair share. heck I saw Hanifin make way more mental errors than Brodie last year but they just never seemed to hurt the team. I was fine trading Brodie because Valimaki was here but I am definetly happy they didn't know that Valkimaki is out. I'm also not opposed to the Flames talking contract with Brodie either..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, GM_3300 said: Should they keep the top lie together I think they have to move Frolik away from Backlund and go with Bennett on RW. Frolik has half a foot out the door however I think he could really help a line of Mangiapane and Ryan. If you use Bennett with Mangiapane and Ryan you are asking for more of the same from him Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett Mangiapane, Ryan, Frolik Lucic, Jankowski, Rieder I would switch Lucic and Mangiapane but this is how I would start things if I were Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, cross16 said: TJ Brodie just has the incredibly unfortunate luck that his screw ups always seem to wind up in the back of the net or something. People see it and just assume he's terrible. I would bet if you actually watched the D core for errors, ignoring the result of the error, Brodie does not make more than his fair share. heck I saw Hanifin make way more mental errors than Brodie last year but they just never seemed to hurt the team. I was fine trading Brodie because Valimaki was here but I am definetly happy they didn't know that Valkimaki is out. I'm also not opposed to the Flames talking contract with Brodie either..... I'm with you. My hairy eyeball is definitely on Hanifin. US college guys almost always rub me the wrong way. They have the talent, but they just don't have the fangs. If you're a top 600 player in the world, you'd better bring a knife and a fork, because everyone is hungry, including 1,000 more that want your spot. Which brings me back to Jankowski. Dude, you have to want it. It will make you millions. How much more motivation do you need? Get aggressive ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Again Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: If you are going to compare two players, you need to look at the full body of work. Facing top players. Killing penalties. Taking crucial draws. Transition from defense to offence. Nobody is without fault. But if it came down to a choice of Bennett or Backlund, right now the choice is obvious. I was not exactly comparing them as much as I was noting that I am more concerned with Backlund as a second line centre vs Bennett as a 3rd line winger. My view of last year was that the results of the regular season were good so if we are looking to improve I would be targeting gaps learned from the playoff run. In that regard I see Backlund as a major gap. I also see goaltending and toughness particularly on D as a gap but I am happy with the call to give Rittich a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Again Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: Bennett-Ryan-Mangiapane would be a good start. I think it would help all three players. I like the Bennett Ryan Mangi idea. Would be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, cross16 said: TJ Brodie just has the incredibly unfortunate luck that his screw ups always seem to wind up in the back of the net or something. People see it and just assume he's terrible. I would bet if you actually watched the D core for errors, ignoring the result of the error, Brodie does not make more than his fair share. heck I saw Hanifin make way more mental errors than Brodie last year but they just never seemed to hurt the team. I was fine trading Brodie because Valimaki was here but I am definetly happy they didn't know that Valkimaki is out. I'm also not opposed to the Flames talking contract with Brodie either..... I agree, but that has always been my assessment of the team and D, that we give up too many chances and a lot of the time it’s in inopportune times. It’s why I think we have good offensive D and almost poor defensive D. Although once they get the puck they’re good at transitioning out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I agree, but that has always been my assessment of the team and D, that we give up too many chances and a lot of the time it’s in inopportune times. It’s why I think we have good offensive D and almost poor defensive D. Although once they get the puck they’re good at transitioning out. They were the 4th best team in the league last year on scoring chances given up and 8th best in high danger chances at 5 on 5 last season. 8th best GAA with only the 18th ranked Save %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 37 minutes ago, cross16 said: They were the 4th best team in the league last year on scoring chances given up and 8th best in high danger chances at 5 on 5 last season. 8th best GAA with only the 18th ranked Save %. Yeah, I see the numbers too. I agree the goalies (Smith) sucked last year and on games that Rittich was bad he was 4+ goals bad. But for me, it’s the where and when those chances happen. But our D do get hemmed in once in awhile. Ok, it isn’t as bad as other teams, but it’s how they defend in that situation that tells more of the story. Good thing we don’t give up more play in our own zone. Travel said it himself, the numbers don’t say the whole story when I quoted Bennett’s possession stats. I feel like we have have good numbers and see us having the puck a lot, but I am almost never anticipating a goal because they stick around the perimeter a lot. The shots aren’t too dangerous and when some get there they shoot at the logo. This is all those not on Johhny’s Line that is. Backlund/Tkachuk do well to, but then it hits the logos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Yeah, I see the numbers too. I agree the goalies (Smith) sucked last year and on games that Rittich was bad he was 4+ goals bad. But for me, it’s the where and when those chances happen. But our D do get hemmed in once in awhile. Ok, it isn’t as bad as other teams, but it’s how they defend in that situation that tells more of the story. Good thing we don’t give up more play in our own zone. Travel said it himself, the numbers don’t say the whole story when I quoted Bennett’s possession stats. I feel like we have have good numbers and see us having the puck a lot, but I am almost never anticipating a goal because they stick around the perimeter a lot. The shots aren’t too dangerous and when some get there they shoot at the logo. This is all those not on Johhny’s Line that is. Backlund/Tkachuk do well to, but then it hits the logos. This all sounds like a lot of small sample size bias or your need to re think your benchmark. I'm not really sure what you are after here but it doesn't feel realistic to me. but to each their own. What you just described happens to literally every team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 My biggest concern in preseason, was, yet again, the inability to score. Letting teams that shouldn't be hanging around do so. All of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, conundrumed said: My biggest concern in preseason, was, yet again, the inability to score. Letting teams that shouldn't be hanging around do so. All of the time. What do mean "yet again", they were the 2nd highest scoring team last season, scoring isn't going to be the problem for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, cross16 said: They were the 4th best team in the league last year on scoring chances given up and 8th best in high danger chances at 5 on 5 last season. 8th best GAA with only the 18th ranked Save %. My biggest concern was Lindholm stopped clicking with Gaudreau-Monahan late season. Also, Monahan looked either injured or exhausted. Honestly if that late season trio continues into this season, then I predict, Gaudreau 33G 45A Monahan 31G 35A Lindholm 18G 30A These are 2017-18 numbers and the Flames miss the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, conundrumed said: My biggest concern in preseason, was, yet again, the inability to score. Letting teams that shouldn't be hanging around do so. All of the time. We need a finisher. I hear Laine may be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, 89Again said: I was not exactly comparing them as much as I was noting that I am more concerned with Backlund as a second line centre vs Bennett as a 3rd line winger. My view of last year was that the results of the regular season were good so if we are looking to improve I would be targeting gaps learned from the playoff run. In that regard I see Backlund as a major gap. I also see goaltending and toughness particularly on D as a gap but I am happy with the call to give Rittich a shot. Considering the upward trending of Tkachuk with Backlund and an assortment of RW's, I don't have the same concern. Backlund gets under my skin for his missed chances and stupid penalties at critical times. His play in the playoffs was just bad. But he was a postive influence all season long. Bennett was less successful for 82 games yet had a stonger series in the playoffs. He plays with crappy players at times. In the playoffs, he did get bumped up, so results may have been skewed by that a bit. He does take more dumb penalties than Backlund and they aren't always grit related. But, as I also said, he has to take the steps himself to improve. Pass in better situations. Change shot mechanics. Don't just drive through players; nice move in the pre-season where he walked the Bear. Do that against lesser guys, not trying it against top D. Take a bloody slapshot every once in awhile. He can become a bigger part of the team by improving these few things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, 89Again said: I like the Bennett Ryan Mangi idea. Would be interesting Agreed. Upgrade Hathaway to Bennett on that line. Play them as "3rd line." 4th line will be throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Lucic, Jankowski, Czarnik, Reider, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, The_People1 said: We need a finisher. I hear Laine may be available. Am I missing something? Did we not score 289 goals last season? Inability to score?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 47 minutes ago, cross16 said: This all sounds like a lot of small sample size bias or your need to re think your benchmark. I'm not really sure what you are after here but it doesn't feel realistic to me. but to each their own. What you just described happens to literally every team in the league. I am not after anything. I just think our D is overrated a bit and when other teams do pick up their play our team D gets overwhelmed. I don’t think it is a small sample size at all because it has been a trend since the GG days. I see inefficiency when the play turns against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, kehatch said: Am I missing something? Did we not score 289 goals last season? Inability to score?? Last season was a tale of two teams. If we were being hyper critical... Sometime around January, teams figured out Gaudreau. They'd put a backchecker on him to take away his button hook. Lindholm's numbers were the first to fall. Then Monahan looked lost. Gaudreau went from trending-125-points to finishing with 99. If that continues this season, then we done. Based on preseason, we dominating but can't finish Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: I am not after anything. I just think our D is overrated a bit and when other teams do pick up their play our team D gets overwhelmed. I don’t think it is a small sample size at all because it has been a trend since the GG days. I see inefficiency when the play turns against us. Small sample size in that I think you only focus on the flames and you are seeing problems you think are specific to them. In reality all teams go through what you are talking about and the Flames are actually on the better side of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, kehatch said: Am I missing something? Did we not score 289 goals last season? Inability to score?? I would assume a high-scoring team might do it vs AHL talent in the preseason. Maybe I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 We still care about pre season hey? interesting...: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 45 minutes ago, cross16 said: Small sample size in that I think you only focus on the flames and you are seeing problems you think are specific to them. In reality all teams go through what you are talking about and the Flames are actually on the better side of it Probably higher expectations than most, but I think that that is what separates champions to other teams. Those that are able to clean up their game usually win it. It’s why they’re a good team. Of course it’s not the only reason, but the magical everything coming together all at once. i just don’t think that if you continue to play a certain way, very rarely can you flick a switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Probably higher expectations than most, but I think that that is what separates champions to other teams. Those that are able to clean up their game usually win it. It’s why they’re a good team. Of course it’s not the only reason, but the magical everything coming together all at once. i just don’t think that if you continue to play a certain way, very rarely can you flick a switch. There's not much to seperate a top team from a bottom team. Both have the ability to play very well one night. The seperation comes from being able to do it more than 50% of the time and having players offset those other times. The Oilers have the ability to play a really good game, but they don't do it enough. And they have goalies or D that let them down. Heck, McD was barely a + player. Tampa has one of the best goalies that helps them when they are inconsistent. Last year we lost games we should have won. We had so few games where we didn't score, and those were usually the ones that had a couple of goals against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: Last season was a tale of two teams. If we were being hyper critical... Sometime around January, teams figured out Gaudreau. They'd put a backchecker on him to take away his button hook. Lindholm's numbers were the first to fall. Then Monahan looked lost. Gaudreau went from trending-125-points to finishing with 99. If that continues this season, then we done. Based on preseason, we dominating but can't finish Just saying. They figured him out in February but then forgot what they figured out by March? The Flames didn't have a problem scoring in the regular season and the preseason means precisely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.