travel_dude Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Crzydrvr said: I do believe that the players this team is built around are capable of being key players on a contender, but I didn't see the 100% confidence, poise and buy-in needed to do so at any point this season (Johnny floating around and being the last man in on your TV screen in the playoffs, for example, has been happening all year to some extent). The disappointment comes from raised expectations which is somewhat unfair, because our playoff result is basically what we were expected to do before the season began. Colorado is also a better than 8th place team who suffered a horrendous stretch of games. What the Flames DO need is a star player in a different mold than a Monahan or Gaudreau, someone who is capable of taking some of the offensive and defensive load away from the other core players. I had hoped that Bennett would be that guy but with what we have now the only thing the team can do is knock this upcoming draft pick and next year's pick out of the park. This team can win and a lot of it will come down to summer development and good trades. Also, let me end with this: I don't regret winning the games ever. Where the Flames have shorted themselves is using the assets they have, not missing out on the assets they didn't get. MacKinnon is a huge favorite of mine but he wasn't making it here; he's just very very useful as a measuring stick for what the team is trying to build talent and character-wise. Just quoting this last piece. As far as McKinnon vs Monahan, there is no contest. Had we been able to make that trade of 3 x 1sts for 1st overall, we would be happier. But I also agree that we do need that 2nd wave considering what we do have. Tkachuk by himself can only do so much. Amazing tha Backlund is able to get 40+ points, because he looks offensive useless a lot of nights. Hard to say what the cause of the top line being useless was. They were this way form the All Star break onwards. They never ramped up in the final weeks, even against lesser teams. They could not ramp it up in the playoffs, becuase it was too late. Make no mistake, the way the Flames played this series, they would not have beat any playoff team. The goaltending was good, but not elite. The defense forgot how to defend and how to transition to offense. The 4th line played good, but you can win games when your best players are out there for 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Crzydrvr said: It isn't wrong at all to put your best foot forward. Organizational influence and culture is important and you have to gauge what is most important to you at the given moment, it's too easy to say that one way or another is better when reality is much more nuanced than that. At the time, the Flames decided that a no-quit mentality was worth more than a higher spot in the draft, and given that the 5th overall pick was Elias Lindholm who didn't break out until this season, it's pretty safe to say that the end result would be basically the same because at that point it would have been very difficult to move into that top 4 that late in the season. I get into this with my coworkers a lot, whether you can draft superstars with late picks and whether that's a sustainable way to build a winning team. It's not impossible and yes you see the odd 4th rounder turn superstar, especially in Calgary. But it is much much harder because while you can find superstars late in the draft, those are rare enough that if you are reliant on late picks solely in order to become a contender you end up relying on lady luck a lot more. High picks aren't valuable because of the reward, they're valuable because of the (lack of) risk. You're almost always guaranteed a capable NHL player if you're drafting in the top 5, and a good GM and coach is able to turn that into success on a more consistent and reproducible basis than teams that miss on their high picks or trade them and end up having to try and find top 6 and top 4 players with 3rds, 4ths and 5ths. Right now the Flames have a couple of glaring holes as a result of being the latter, rather than the former. One is that the picks they do have aren't really that impressive in the grand scheme of things. Monahan, while a good 6th overall pick, has had his overall development stunted and isn't a great all-around player. Bennett has been a disappointment relative to draft position. They didn't have a pick in 2015 because they traded it for Dougie Hamilton. 2011 was Baertschi, 2010 was traded for Jokinen, 2009 was Erixon who left and then busted and 2008 was Greg Nemisz who also busted. Between 2008 and 2015, the Flames drafted exactly 1 top 6 NHLer with a 1st round pick, and some of those were real good picks to work with. That is the core of this current team and that's a big reason for why this team has, up to this season, struggled to put together consistent depth options up front and on the backend without trading for or signing older/established NHL players. Bring that up to 2018 and the number goes up to 2 with Tkachuk and a possible 3rd in Valimaki. The Flames have to decide what they are going to be, and whether or not they can win with this group. I think they're closer than this team has been in almost 30 years, but there's also a gap between the Flames' best players and the league's best players, and all of the Flames' top players have some sort of flaw that needs addressing before you can really look at them and say "I'm comfortable in believing they are favorites to win the big one". That was my thought before the season and I don't think that changes because of the Flames' regular season. Again, you don't need to tank to draft a star, just look at Mathew Barzal out of the Islanders who went mid-first or David Pastrnak of the Bruins who went late 1st, but you need to be lights out with the opportunities you get and the Flames haven't done so. I do believe that the players this team is built around are capable of being key players on a contender, but I didn't see the 100% confidence, poise and buy-in needed to do so at any point this season (Johnny floating around and being the last man in on your TV screen in the playoffs, for example, has been happening all year to some extent). The disappointment comes from raised expectations which is somewhat unfair, because our playoff result is basically what we were expected to do before the season began. Colorado is also a better than 8th place team who suffered a horrendous stretch of games. What the Flames DO need is a star player in a different mold than a Monahan or Gaudreau, someone who is capable of taking some of the offensive and defensive load away from the other core players. I had hoped that Bennett would be that guy but with what we have now the only thing the team can do is knock this upcoming draft pick and next year's pick out of the park. This team can win and a lot of it will come down to summer development and good trades. Also, let me end with this: I don't regret winning the games ever. Where the Flames have shorted themselves is using the assets they have, not missing out on the assets they didn't get. MacKinnon is a huge favorite of mine but he wasn't making it here; he's just very very useful as a measuring stick for what the team is trying to build talent and character-wise. This is an awesome post. Very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 Maybe the biggest positive this playoff season is seeing Sam Bennett elevate at a critical time. Led the team in points with 5, showed effort and heart, and limited minutes most games. We need more of that, and it makes me happy he is a flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketdoctor Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 out of 4 division leaders out of the playoffs in round 1 and the 4th in a game 7. seeds 5 7 & 8 through from the West and if Vegas wins then number 6 aswell. Does show the parity in the NHL and you need a bit of luck here and there. If game 2 OT went the other way it could have been a different series. Unfortunately AVs were more hungry, played better than us and we were out coached. Although I am still hugely dispappointed at the round 1 exit, overall as a season, none of us were expecting top seed in the West, I am extremely proud of the the team as a whole. Gio for Norris! Go Flames Go!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 8 hours ago, ABC923 said: Maybe the biggest positive this playoff season is seeing Sam Bennett elevate at a critical time. Led the team in points with 5, showed effort and heart, and limited minutes most games. We need more of that, and it makes me happy he is a flame. I believe some are underestimating the leap Bennett made, not only in his physical game but his mental game (which I have always questioned). The other element on full display with Bennett was his desire to win. I think is game warrants a move back to C next season for a few reasons, we need faster extensive work and coverage both offensively and defensively on a Peter's team. I know all the knocks with Bennett, some of his own doing but let's not forget the lack of support for the player since Tkachuk's arrival. I think he has earned a bigger role and an opportunity to be that #1 C the team drafted for by placing him with Gaudreau and Tkachuk next season. If Gaudreau and Tkachuk can't get the scoring out of him the nobody will and be assured Bennett will do his part, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 23, 2019 Report Share Posted April 23, 2019 12 hours ago, ABC923 said: Maybe the biggest positive this playoff season is seeing Sam Bennett elevate at a critical time. Led the team in points with 5, showed effort and heart, and limited minutes most games. We need more of that, and it makes me happy he is a flame. Bennett scored 4 of 5 points on the PP. The only players to score goals 5v5 were TJ (2), Tkachuk (1g 1a), Monahan (1g, 1a), Mangiapane (1g), Ryan (1g). While I agree that he has the heart, the skills have never matched that. He's the king of goalie incidental contact. I'm okay with him for his drive and gritty play, but honestly, we need more players with his grit and Tkachuk's skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 5 hours ago, travel_dude said: Bennett scored 4 of 5 points on the PP. The only players to score goals 5v5 were TJ (2), Tkachuk (1g 1a), Monahan (1g, 1a), Mangiapane (1g), Ryan (1g). While I agree that he has the heart, the skills have never matched that. He's the king of goalie incidental contact. I'm okay with him for his drive and gritty play, but honestly, we need more players with his grit and Tkachuk's skill. that sounds expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 22 hours ago, ABC923 said: Maybe the biggest positive this playoff season is seeing Sam Bennett elevate at a critical time. Led the team in points with 5, showed effort and heart, and limited minutes most games. We need more of that, and it makes me happy he is a flame. It's too bad Bennett was banged up going into the playoffs or we could've seen an even better Bennett and used more than he was. We need guys like him for the playoffs. But we need guys like Gaudreau to get us there first. We still need the flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Man Vegas just got screwed by one of the worst penalty calls I have ever seen. That being said how do you allow 4 goals on one PP? Holy cow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Vegas blew a 3-1 series lead and a 3-0 lead with 10 mins left in game 7, bad call aside, maybe things could be worse for us. Bowing out in 5 was tough but gee whiz, I don’t think I’d handle a series loss like that too well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Man Vegas just got screwed by one of the worst penalty calls I have ever seen. That being said how do you allow 4 goals on one PP? Holy cow! 8 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: Vegas blew a 3-1 series lead and a 3-0 lead with 10 mins left in game 7, bad call aside, maybe things could be worse for us. Bowing out in 5 was tough but gee whiz, I don’t think I’d handle a series loss like that too well Ya man. Brutal call. This is one of those cases where you wish a team can challenge and penalty call. Maybe they should allow challenges on 5-minute penalties. Pavelski throws his own head back to embellish contact off the faceoff circle and makes incidental contact with Stastny causing himself to fall on his head and gets KO'd. Pure accident. But they get a series altering call and capitalize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: Ya man. Brutal call. This is one of those cases where you wish a team can challenge and penalty call. Maybe they should allow challenges on 5-minute penalties. Pavelski throws his own head back to embellish contact off the faceoff circle and makes incidental contact with Stastny causing himself to fall on his head and gets KO'd. Pure accident. But they get a series altering call and capitalize. Sounds like a call we would get. Officiating needs to be fixed. The war room won't overturn a call on the ice 9/10 times. They want to protect the offical integrity. Tonight was brutal. Comparing the hit to any other hit in the game, this was mild. Shame to end such a good game with a dumb call. 4 goals on one PP. Pull the goalie and score with 47 seconds left. 4th liner Goodrow undressed MAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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