Calgary Flames Offense

[cross16]

51 minutes ago, 7wit said:

 

We can agree to disagree on the value of his contract for a 3/4 line player. I think it’s too high and I hope it doesn’t become a contract which is difficult to move in the future. I feel we could have got him signed below $3 million a season. Just my thoughts.

 

If it were that easy don't you think they would have?

[7wit]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

If it were that easy don't you think they would have?

 

Many contracts signed early in the offseason are generally surprising overpayments to some degree. There are a ton of examples of this. With Peters as coach, IMO he got a hey buddy ol’ pal contract. He is a reliable player so I understand why they got him. We will see if he produces at the same level he did in Carolina, but I doubt he will. With the players we have, he’s not in the top 6 forwards. Anyway, this is going nowhere so we will just disagree and that’s ok. From a risk management standpoint I just think it’s too much.

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, 7wit said:

 

Many contracts signed early in the offseason are generally surprising overpayments to some degree. There are a ton of examples of this. With Peters as coach, IMO he got a hey buddy ol’ pal contract. He is a reliable player so I understand why they got him. We will see if he produces at the same level he did in Carolina, but I doubt he will. With the players we have, he’s not in the top 6 forwards. Anyway, this is going nowhere so we will just disagree and that’s ok. From a risk management standpoint I just think it’s too much.

 

The same reason why Czarnik got $1.25m is why Ryan got $3.1m.

Two sought after players.  

Ryan is a RHS that's good at faceoffs and can play the wing.

You can say wait and see, but the reality is each player had more than one offer.

The only real question is whether you don;t sign those two and hope you get a bargain later or just stand pat.

 

 

[cross16]

37 minutes ago, 7wit said:

 

Many contracts signed early in the offseason are generally surprising overpayments to some degree. There are a ton of examples of this. With Peters as coach, IMO he got a hey buddy ol’ pal contract. He is a reliable player so I understand why they got him. We will see if he produces at the same level he did in Carolina, but I doubt he will. With the players we have, he’s not in the top 6 forwards. Anyway, this is going nowhere so we will just disagree and that’s ok. From a risk management standpoint I just think it’s too much.

 

Multiple reports actually had him taking less to come here. Believe he even admittted as such. 

 

If you don't love the contract fine, I won't argue or disagree. But the trade off isn't off they should have gotten Ryan for less, it's we don't have Ryan on the team. It's just weird to me people think that GMs just invent numbers and it's so easy for players to take less money. Supply and demand. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Multiple reports actually had him taking less to come here. Believe he even admittted as such. 

 

If you don't love the contract fine, I won't argue or disagree. But the trade off isn't off they should have gotten Ryan for less, it's we don't have Ryan on the team. It's just weird to me people think that GMs just invent numbers and it's so easy for players to take less money. Supply and demand. 

 

I think what drives that thought is what we paid for Engelland.  

I almost think that was a unique situation where we needed to spend a certain amount.

Could be wrong.

[7wit]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

The same reason why Czarnik got $1.25m is why Ryan got $3.1m.

Two sought after players.  

Ryan is a RHS that's good at faceoffs and can play the wing.

You can say wait and see, but the reality is each player had more than one offer.

The only real question is whether you don;t sign those two and hope you get a bargain later or just stand pat.

 

 

 

Exactly. Which is why you don’t get involved in a bidding war or pay too much. Sometimes people can’t help themselves and they just have to get what they feel they need. Honestly, for the money he signed for I wouldn’t have signed that deal as a GM. For less sure, but I would have walked away. If another team is willing to pay more, then ok. I would spend my $ differently.

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Multiple reports actually had him taking less to come here. Believe he even admittted as such. 

 

If you don't love the contract fine, I won't argue or disagree. But the trade off isn't off they should have gotten Ryan for less, it's we don't have Ryan on the team. It's just weird to me people think that GMs just invent numbers and it's so easy for players to take less money. Supply and demand. 

 

It is supply and demand, but if the player is overvalued should you really go for it? Im going to ignore your comment about inventing numbers because it’s just a different philosophy. Nothing is invented here.

[Cowtownguy]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Multiple reports actually had him taking less to come here. Believe he even admittted as such. 

 

If you don't love the contract fine, I won't argue or disagree. But the trade off isn't off they should have gotten Ryan for less, it's we don't have Ryan on the team. It's just weird to me people think that GMs just invent numbers and it's so easy for players to take less money. Supply and demand. 

While I agree that there is a metric for salaries, I would like to play contrarian with this. How do you explain why some teams appear to be much more effective in making significant trades or acquisitions? Treliving made some major moves this summer and managed to sign Johnny and Monahan to team friendly contracts. 

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

While I agree that there is a metric for salaries, I would like to play contrarian with this. How do you explain why some teams appear to be much more effective in making significant trades or acquisitions? Treliving made some major moves this summer and managed to sign Johnny and Monahan to team friendly contracts. 

 

Is there is really a team that stands out when it comes to UFAs? RFAs is a different discussion because thst isn't supply and demand. 

 

7wit makes a good point and I agree is comes down to what your break even point is and what point you walk away. Some GMs probably have more restraint, but personally I don't have an issue with the Ryan deal. Wanted it under 3 but slightly over isn't the end of the world because I really value the RH face off ability who can play in many situations 

[Going4TheCup]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:25 PM, cross16 said:

 

Is there is really a team that stands out when it comes to UFAs? RFAs is a different discussion because thst isn't supply and demand. 

 

7wit makes a good point and I agree is comes down to what your break even point is and what point you walk away. Some GMs probably have more restraint, but personally I don't have an issue with the Ryan deal. Wanted it under 3 but slightly over isn't the end of the world because I really value the RH face off ability who can play in many situations 

I may be wrong but did we get Ryan just for face offs?? Seems like he isn't do much with the Flames so far and I definitely don't think he is worth the contract he signed with the Flames

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, Going4TheCup said:

I may be wrong but did we get Ryan just for face offs?? Seems like he isn't do much with the Flames so far and I definitely don't think he is worth the contract he signed with the Flames

There are a number of players being wasted while BP figures out who he wants with who, Ryan is one of them. I would like to see him on a line with Frolik LW, Backlund C and Ryan RW. He would be instrumental as a RH face off draw helping out Backlund who is only so good on the dot. This is a line that would be able to hold the opposition's top line in check and provide some secondary scoring.

[DirtyDeeds]

So far this year our best at  Faceoffs(those above 50%):

This is a good start and quite the improvement from the past few seasons.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

So far this year our best at  Faceoffs(those above 50%):

This is a good start and quite the improvement from the past few seasons.

 

I agree.  It's good especially that the top line combined is over 53%.  On the surface that is.

Need to get better results from Janko and Ryan, though they are taking much fewer.

Considering that Czarnik can play RW and C, I would like to see him in over Hathaway for a few games.  He has a lethal shot, while Hathaway has a decent all round game.

[Khrox]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Considering that Czarnik can play RW and C, I would like to see him in over Hathaway for a few games.  He has a lethal shot, while Hathaway has a decent all round game.

Honestly, I wouldn't be upset if they went Janko LW-Czarnik C-Hathaway RW. I hope they sit Dube for a bit and let him watch a few games (or send him to the AHL) to maybe learn to avoid all those big hits he's been taking.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, Khrox said:

Honestly, I wouldn't be upset if they went Janko LW-Czarnik C-Hathaway RW. I hope they sit Dube for a bit and let him watch a few games (or send him to the AHL) to maybe learn to avoid all those big hits he's been taking.

 

The AHL isn;t any easier with goons, since they mostly get sent there.

Headhunters looking to show their stiff with big hits.

 

I wouldn;t be upset with Dube sitting out against ANA and LA, just because they are heavy teams with D that hit hard.

 

I know it's way too soon to talk about this, seing as Dube hasn;t even been evaluated, but it might not be a bad to recall a guy like Mangiapane.

We don;t really need to have 8D.  If Dube misses any time, it might not be a bad idea to recall Yeastman.  I felt he was close to the same level as Dube in pre-season.

He's no smaller than Dube and has shown the ability to go to the dirty areas.

 

Just a thought.  I like the idea of having a LW option available. 

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The AHL isn;t any easier with goons, since they mostly get sent there.

Headhunters looking to show their stiff with big hits.

 

I wouldn;t be upset with Dube sitting out against ANA and LA, just because they are heavy teams with D that hit hard.

 

I know it's way too soon to talk about this, seing as Dube hasn;t even been evaluated, but it might not be a bad to recall a guy like Mangiapane.

We don;t really need to have 8D.  If Dube misses any time, it might not be a bad idea to recall Yeastman.  I felt he was close to the same level as Dube in pre-season.

He's no smaller than Dube and has shown the ability to go to the dirty areas.

 

Just a thought.  I like the idea of having a LW option available. 

The win was a consolation prize if that puts Dube out. That looked horrendous. No fault to Keith imho.

That was an abysmal way to learn not to turn into a check at this level.

I'm worried for him, for sure.

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

The win was a consolation prize if that puts Dube out. That looked horrendous. No fault to Keith imho.

That was an abysmal way to learn not to turn into a check at this level.

I'm worried for him, for sure.

 

Keith finished a check that looked bad, regardless of what position Dube put himself in.

No, we wasn't targeting Dube's head, but that's where the hit ended up being.

Keith has had dirty hits in the past, but I don't think he intended on hitting a smaller guy in that manner.

He would do more so with someone closer to his size.  

 

I like the speed and buzz he brings to his lines.  I am beginning to wonder if, in the short term, a guy like Mangiapane or Rychel may be a better fit.  Both have pro experience.  Mangiapane is more of a complementary player, but could fit in well with Czarnik (or Hathaway) and Ryan (or Janko).  He also has more time playing against bigger AHL and NHL players.  Rychel is more of a big body player.  Both are LW.

 

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

The win was a consolation prize if that puts Dube out. That looked horrendous. No fault to Keith imho.

That was an abysmal way to learn not to turn into a check at this level.

I'm worried for him, for sure.

Dube didn't look to worse for wear after the hit but they seem to be under the gun with all this concussion protocol. I wouldn't mind seeing a few combinations utilized on the 4th line, Dube, Jankowski, Czarnik then Rychel, Jankowski, Hathaway for the heavier teams. Put Prout back in the AHL.

[Going4TheCup]

I think Neal should move up to the first line so he can start scoring. Ryan has looked useless. The 4th line has looked good the last few games  j

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, Going4TheCup said:

I think Neal should move up to the first line so he can start scoring. Ryan has looked useless. The 4th line has looked good the last few games  j

 

Ryan is a decent defensive center.

We should probaly play him n a complementary role, not a promary one.

Play RW, but take draws.

Bennett-Janko-Ryan.

One of those guys is going to find the net.

Janko looks the most likely to score.

Bennett needs to simplift his game and stop thinking he can always take the puck to the net.

 

Neal with Monahan and JH.

Lindy with Tkachuk and Backlund.

Czarnik with Dube and Hathaway.

Every line has a sniper.

Every line has a passer.

No defnsive liabilities. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Not much to complain about so far. Division leaders and on pace for 100+ points.

 

Only issue is I don't think we are deep enough offensively at the moment. Shut down the top line and PP unit 1 and our chances of winning are slim.

 

Taking a look at our leading scorers, 5th leading scorer Gio has 18 more points than 6th place Backlund. This is more-so a testament to Gio's tremendous season than Backlund as he is still on pace for his typical 40 points. I also give Janko a pass as he will likely pass his rookie total of 25 points as he currently sits at 15.

 

The issue is further down the depth chart, up front specifically. Neal (7 points), Bennett (12 points), Ryan (11 points). Just about halfway through the season those guys who are supposed to provide our secondary scoring are on pace for 14, 24 and 22 points respectfully. Also worth noting that we bought out Brouwer, who was coming off a 22 point season... Hopefully those guys are building up to hit their peak for playoffs

 

I don't want to write anyone off yet as there is still a lot of hockey to be played. But if we wanna make any noise down the stretch and into April, we need more secondary scoring. 

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Not much to complain about so far. Division leaders and on pace for 100+ points.

 

Only issue is I don't think we are deep enough offensively at the moment. Shut down the top line and PP unit 1 and our chances of winning are slim.

 

Taking a look at our leading scorers, 5th leading scorer Gio has 18 more points than 6th place Backlund. This is more-so a testament to Gio's tremendous season than Backlund as he is still on pace for his typical 40 points. I also give Janko a pass as he will likely pass his rookie total of 25 points as he currently sits at 15.

 

The issue is further down the depth chart, up front specifically. Neal (7 points), Bennett (12 points), Ryan (11 points). Just about halfway through the season those guys who are supposed to provide our secondary scoring are on pace for 14, 24 and 22 points respectfully. Also worth noting that we bought out Brouwer, who was coming off a 22 point season... Hopefully those guys are building up to hit their peak for playoffs

 

I don't want to write anyone off yet as there is still a lot of hockey to be played. But if we wanna make any noise down the stretch and into April, we need more secondary scoring. 

 

The 2nd line has the top PP point producer, Backlund and Bennett.

The 2nd PP unit consists of two of those guys that have combined for 2 PP points.

If the top line draws the penalty, the 2nd unit syatys the PP.  Waste of time.

Shut down the top PP unit and we are dead in the water.

 

Janko has shown the ability to kill penalties and score shorthanded.

Ras has shown the ability to drive the play with the net empty.

Kylington has shown the ability to keep the pick in and get back without incident.

 

BP has said that the lines look stale.  The changes never impact the areas that struggle.

 

[robrob74]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The 2nd line has the top PP point producer, Backlund and Bennett.

The 2nd PP unit consists of two of those guys that have combined for 2 PP points.

If the top line draws the penalty, the 2nd unit syatys the PP.  Waste of time.

Shut down the top PP unit and we are dead in the water.

 

Janko has shown the ability to kill penalties and score shorthanded.

Ras has shown the ability to drive the play with the net empty.

Kylington has shown the ability to keep the pick in and get back without incident.

 

BP has said that the lines look stale.  The changes never impact the areas that struggle.

 

 

I think if the top line looks quiet again, I’d go Lindholm to C Tkachuk. 

 

I dont know if you go Dube, Backlund, Frolik or whomever. Of course switch for handedness if needed.

 

Id try:

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube

Frolik, Backlund, Ryan

Bennett, Jankowski, Hathaway 

 

When I got chastised for being too negative in the blowout wins saying the team needed to figure out how to get the scoring figured out in tougher games it was what I was getting at.

 

Do we need a super line if you can’t get offence from the rest of the team? 

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think if the top line looks quiet again, I’d go Lindholm to C Tkachuk. 

 

I dont know if you go Dube, Backlund, Frolik or whomever. Of course switch for handedness if needed.

 

Id try:

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube

Frolik, Backlund, Ryan

Bennett, Jankowski, Hathaway 

 

When I got chastised for being too negative in the blowout wins saying the team needed to figure out how to get the scoring figured out in tougher games it was what I was getting at.

 

Do we need a super line if you can’t get offence from the rest of the team? 

 

 

 

 

You know that I am a little down on Bennett.  

I thnk we need to stop using him on a line we expect offense from.

Give him Ryan and Hathaway, 2 players that aren't creative but play simple games.

Play Neal with a skill guy.

Play Tkachuk with a skill guy.

 

I don;t worry about the 1st line, as you can shift players up there to RW.

Use Tkachuk, Janko and Neal as your 2nd scoring line.

Backlund should play less minutes and play with Frolik and someone else.

[Heartbreaker]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Frolik, Backlund, Ryan

Bennett, Jankowski, Hathaway 

 

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

You know that I am a little down on Bennett.  

 

Backlund should play less minutes and play with Frolik and someone else.

 

While I don't agree with you fellas on Bennett, I do wholly agree on Backlund. This year his offence is non-existent. It's only a problem because they keep playing him in an offensive role - I'd bump him to the third line, and move Jankowski up. 

 

Love. 

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

 

While I don't agree with you fellas on Bennett, I do wholly agree on Backlund. This year his offence is non-existent. It's only a problem because they keep playing him in an offensive role - I'd bump him to the third line, and move Jankowski up. 

 

Love. 

 

My issue with Bennett has to do with what he does wth the puck.

The line is no longer dangerous with Backlund and Bennett.

Pick one or both for the reason.

What I see is a line that can;t seem to connect on passes, drops the puck to nobody, gets shots away at the goalie's center mass or one guy tries to single handedly go through two players.  The 3M line was something else, this is nothing close to it.  Maybe Frolik is struggling too, but he has more goals than Backs and Benny.

 

Maybe my expectation changed about Tkachuk, but I see him struggling to generate stuff 5v5 now.  The line isn;t as much of a threat as it used to be.  Maybe I'm just sour.