Flames 2018 NHL Draft

[cross16]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

How about Bennett for Puljujarvi straight up?

 

I could probably get behind this deal. Certainly worth considering for sure. 

 

I'm still a believer in both. Both have not been handled great by either organization and I think at this point the upside is similar. Maybe a slight edge to Bennett who still could be a center IMO. Lots of merits to that deal. 

[Cowtownguy]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I could probably get behind this deal. Certainly worth considering for sure. 

 

I'm still a believer in both. Both have not been handled great by either organization and I think at this point the upside is similar. Maybe a slight edge to Bennett who still could be a center IMO. Lots of merits to that deal. 

My knee jerk reaction is that I would not make this deal. I still believe that Bennett will become a great, or at least a very solid player given time, and I would not want to see him coming down to play us. Besides, don't we need more immediate help? Puljujarvi may be a long-term project.

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

My knee jerk reaction is that I would not make this deal. I still believe that Bennett will become a great, or at least a very solid player given time, and I would not want to see him coming down to play us. Besides, don't we need more immediate help? Puljujarvi may be a long-term project.

 

Puljujarvi had better 5 on 5 production, slightly but better, than Bennett last year so i'm not sure I would agree Bennett offers more immediate help. 

 

Deal isn't going to happen so I won't argue much for it but I do think the skill set swap makes some sense. Puljujarvi ticks a lot of boxes for the Flames. 

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Puljujarvi had better 5 on 5 production, slightly but better, than Bennett last year so i'm not sure I would agree Bennett offers more immediate help. 

 

Deal isn't going to happen so I won't argue much for it but I do think the skill set swap makes some sense. Puljujarvi ticks a lot of boxes for the Flames. 

 

Can't say I understand his usage or treatment for that matter.  Jokinen was a mentor, but they traded him early on.  The guy needs some vet to walk him through the NHL game and help him adjust to NA culture and life.  He's still just a big kid.  He's in the wrong environment to develop, IMHO.

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

30 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Puljujarvi had better 5 on 5 production, slightly but better, than Bennett last year so i'm not sure I would agree Bennett offers more immediate help. 

 

Deal isn't going to happen so I won't argue much for it but I do think the skill set swap makes some sense. Puljujarvi ticks a lot of boxes for the Flames. 

The trade may well benefit both teams. I would give it greater consideration if we were trading with an Eastern Conference team. My fear would be that Puljujarvi would be an ongoing project while Bennett figures it out.

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Can't say I understand his usage or treatment for that matter.  Jokinen was a mentor, but they traded him early on.  The guy needs some vet to walk him through the NHL game and help him adjust to NA culture and life.  He's still just a big kid.  He's in the wrong environment to develop, IMHO.

 

 

 

I would agree.

 

For me the treatment has been similar for both players. Maybe a bit worse for Puljujarvi given he has the language barrier, which I thought I read was an issue early on that the Oilers did nothing about, but neither has been given great support by their organization. Given that pre draft I would have rated them similar, with an edge to Puljujarvi, their results are similar, upsides similar it's not hard to make the argument a fresh start would be great for both. 

 

but I also can't see the Flames - Oilers making a trade like this either. 

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

The trade may well benefit both teams. I would give it greater consideration if we were trading with an Eastern Conference team. My fear would be that Puljujarvi would be an ongoing project while Bennett figures it out.

 

Bennett is trending into a solid career 3rd line LW and if we are okay with that, then he's a keeper.  I'm thinking like a Chris Clark (don't laugh he scored 30 goals one season) but not expecting top 6.  He just doesn't have the vision and hockey sense.

 

Puljujarvi is a year younger and has more tools but is more raw.  He could bust right out of the NHL in two years... Yet, could be salvaged into a top 6. 

 

 

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Bennett is trending into a solid career 3rd line LW and if we are okay with that, then he's a keeper.  I'm thinking like a Chris Clark (don't laugh he scored 30 goals one season) but not expecting top 6.  He just doesn't have the vision and hockey sense.

 

Puljujarvi is a year younger and has more tools but is more raw.  He could bust right out of the NHL in two years... Yet, could be salvaged into a top 6. 

 

 

 

I really think that fans aren’t giving Bennett enough credit. His two way game is really quite good. He will take bad penalties but I think he’s better defensively than Monahan. I was putting my bulletproof vest on as I wrote that, so everyone shoot me. But Monahan has the finish and a lot more time with other top skilled players. 

 

 

[conundrumed]

49 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I really think that fans aren’t giving Bennett enough credit. His two way game is really quite good. He will take bad penalties but I think he’s better defensively than Monahan. I was putting my bulletproof vest on as I wrote that, so everyone shoot me. But Monahan has the finish and a lot more time with other top skilled players. 

 

 

I agree Bennett is a good 3c as he can get up and down just fine. I think going back to center might help him now. He doesn't need to constantly be the puck carrier into the zone, where he ends up being alone more often than not.

He should model his game after Datsyuk, who seemed to enter the o-zone as a trailer, even after the dmen, for like half of every shift/game. Panic in the neutral zone, that kind of stuff. Bennett forces everything. Imho he'd do a lot better by just letting the game come to him. Spend your energy wisely and understand the lanes and get in them without the puck. He's stuck in a mental block, imho, of trying to do too much all of the time.

He needs to settle into the game and the pace, not constantly trying to elevate it or take it over.

I really hope he finds the balance.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I really think that fans aren’t giving Bennett enough credit. His two way game is really quite good. He will take bad penalties but I think he’s better defensively than Monahan. I was putting my bulletproof vest on as I wrote that, so everyone shoot me. But Monahan has the finish and a lot more time with other top skilled players. 

 

 

Oh right, roberto, Bennett will never be like Monahan. They each have skillsets that don't really jibe.

Mony makes goalies his tricks, that's how you score 30 even with a dead wrist.

Mony in the slot is a lot like Scheifele in the slot. Those shots are tricked right out. "Looks like he's putting it right at me".

The curling on the puck, not many players can do that, and all of them are 30 goal guys.

I had a huge nemesis in Bantam, a native kid (not that that matters). The first time we played, his first goal came 2 seconds in.

Faceoff win back to him at RD, his own blueline, that thing was still rising going past me, top corner, glove side. He had 3 hat tricks on me that game.

Hated him.

Next time we played he hung 7 on me. During the handshake, I asked if I could talk to him and asked him, "wtf, man, I had them all"?

We chatted for a bit. telling teammates, "no we're just chatting".

We weren't so much competitors after that, in following games I'd ask him to shoot on me in warmups, then told both of our coaches we aren't really asking, we're telling you.

He got older and hockey and life clashed, but god almighty, we all knew he was the next sensation.

His shot release would be from heel, toe or center of the blade, but his follow through twisting his stick clockwise or counter-clockwise just turns you inside out.

He'd be at the hashmarks, it's coming straight at me, you can see it. Zing, top corns over the glove arm.

As we became kind of friends from different cities, we established we both love snooker, he told me it's just like that, you put action on the ball, that's how I shoot. It's spinning when I shoot it, I just got good at putting action on it in my follow through.

Honestly, he should have been the next Gretzky. He played RD, but that was just, "do whatever you want".

Without him, that team sucked. He was total devastation.

So from my own experience, Mony's our only roster player that can trickshoot. We need guys to work on that, and one timers.

Wanna score more? Put the work in, there are a lot of ways to score, focus on them.

 

[robrob74]

Gaudreau, Monahan, Ryan

Jankowski, Bennett, Tkachuk

Mangiapane, Backlund, Frolik

Ferland, Shore, Hathaway

 

Does Ryan have enough skill to play with Monahan and Gaudreau? If Ferland did ok with them, could Ryan? 

I think having Ferland on the 4th line gives us added scoring depth. 

Opening Tkachuk adds offence by the fact that we need it spread throughout the lineup and not just on two lines. Bennett has the ability to do it, but I believe he needs full time quality skilled players to help him out. He does fine on his own, defensively, but not offensively. 

Add in Mangiapane and there is more skill in the lineup and helps keeping Backlund open. If we want, we can always go back to Tkachuk with Backlund. 

 

I think a lot are too obsessed with keeping things together for the sake of it working. We need more than two lines working and it doesn't necessarily mean Tkachuk gets them going, but when you mix skill with skill, it's possible that they compliment each other. 

 

I don't know about Ryan. It might be a cheap way of gaining a forward to make things work. 

[cccsberg]

18 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Oh right, roberto, Bennett will never be like Monahan. They each have skillsets that don't really jibe.

Mony makes goalies his tricks, that's how you score 30 even with a dead wrist.

Mony in the slot is a lot like Scheifele in the slot. Those shots are tricked right out. "Looks like he's putting it right at me".

The curling on the puck, not many players can do that, and all of them are 30 goal guys.

I had a huge nemesis in Bantam, a native kid (not that that matters). The first time we played, his first goal came 2 seconds in.

Faceoff win back to him at RD, his own blueline, that thing was still rising going past me, top corner, glove side. He had 3 hat tricks on me that game.

Hated him.

Next time we played he hung 7 on me. During the handshake, I asked if I could talk to him and asked him, "wtf, man, I had them all"?

We chatted for a bit. telling teammates, "no we're just chatting".

We weren't so much competitors after that, in following games I'd ask him to shoot on me in warmups, then told both of our coaches we aren't really asking, we're telling you.

He got older and hockey and life clashed, but god almighty, we all knew he was the next sensation.

His shot release would be from heel, toe or center of the blade, but his follow through twisting his stick clockwise or counter-clockwise just turns you inside out.

He'd be at the hashmarks, it's coming straight at me, you can see it. Zing, top corns over the glove arm.

As we became kind of friends from different cities, we established we both love snooker, he told me it's just like that, you put action on the ball, that's how I shoot. It's spinning when I shoot it, I just got good at putting action on it in my follow through.

Honestly, he should have been the next Gretzky. He played RD, but that was just, "do whatever you want".

Without him, that team sucked. He was total devastation.

So from my own experience, Mony's our only roster player that can trickshoot. We need guys to work on that, and one timers.

Wanna score more? Put the work in, there are a lot of ways to score, focus on them.

 

Three hat tricks?  Good one..... nice story.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Three hat tricks?  Good one..... nice story.

11-2.

He went off twice the whole game...2 penalties.

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Oh right, roberto, Bennett will never be like Monahan. They each have skillsets that don't really jibe.

Mony makes goalies his tricks, that's how you score 30 even with a dead wrist.

Mony in the slot is a lot like Scheifele in the slot. Those shots are tricked right out. "Looks like he's putting it right at me".

The curling on the puck, not many players can do that, and all of them are 30 goal guys.

I had a huge nemesis in Bantam, a native kid (not that that matters). The first time we played, his first goal came 2 seconds in.

Faceoff win back to him at RD, his own blueline, that thing was still rising going past me, top corner, glove side. He had 3 hat tricks on me that game.

Hated him.

Next time we played he hung 7 on me. During the handshake, I asked if I could talk to him and asked him, "wtf, man, I had them all"?

We chatted for a bit. telling teammates, "no we're just chatting".

We weren't so much competitors after that, in following games I'd ask him to shoot on me in warmups, then told both of our coaches we aren't really asking, we're telling you.

He got older and hockey and life clashed, but god almighty, we all knew he was the next sensation.

His shot release would be from heel, toe or center of the blade, but his follow through twisting his stick clockwise or counter-clockwise just turns you inside out.

He'd be at the hashmarks, it's coming straight at me, you can see it. Zing, top corns over the glove arm.

As we became kind of friends from different cities, we established we both love snooker, he told me it's just like that, you put action on the ball, that's how I shoot. It's spinning when I shoot it, I just got good at putting action on it in my follow through.

Honestly, he should have been the next Gretzky. He played RD, but that was just, "do whatever you want".

Without him, that team sucked. He was total devastation.

So from my own experience, Mony's our only roster player that can trickshoot. We need guys to work on that, and one timers.

Wanna score more? Put the work in, there are a lot of ways to score, focus on them.

 

 

I did mention it was the 2-way and did not mentioned scoring. I guess what I really meant was that he is better defensively. I don’t know what is in store for Bennett though.. i lik to think of him as a casualty of his draft position. If he was drafted lower he would be in the minors until ready. Had he gone, maybe he’d be ready by now. 

 

How would we rate his draft year class? Where would he have been drafted in other years?

[conundrumed]

49 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Gaudreau, Monahan, Ryan

Jankowski, Bennett, Tkachuk

Mangiapane, Backlund, Frolik

Ferland, Shore, Hathaway

 

Does Ryan have enough skill to play with Monahan and Gaudreau? If Ferland did ok with them, could Ryan? 

I think having Ferland on the 4th line gives us added scoring depth. 

Opening Tkachuk adds offence by the fact that we need it spread throughout the lineup and not just on two lines. Bennett has the ability to do it, but I believe he needs full time quality skilled players to help him out. He does fine on his own, defensively, but not offensively. 

Add in Mangiapane and there is more skill in the lineup and helps keeping Backlund open. If we want, we can always go back to Tkachuk with Backlund. 

 

I think a lot are too obsessed with keeping things together for the sake of it working. We need more than two lines working and it doesn't necessarily mean Tkachuk gets them going, but when you mix skill with skill, it's possible that they compliment each other. 

 

I don't know about Ryan. It might be a cheap way of gaining a forward to make things work. 

Which Ryan? Derek or Bobby?

 

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I did mention it was the 2-way and did not mentioned scoring. I guess what I really meant was that he is better defensively. I don’t know what is in store for Bennett though.. i lik to think of him as a casualty of his draft position. If he was drafted lower he would be in the minors until ready. Had he gone, maybe he’d be ready by now. 

 

How would we rate his draft year class? Where would he have been drafted in other years?

 

My recollection was 2014 was a good draft year but not quite as exciting as some years around it. 13, 15, and 16 have some incredible talent at the top and they were pretty insane both at the time and in hindsight to get that much so close together. 2014 felt a little behind that to be honest.  I seem to recall liking Monahan more in his draft year than Bennett, although I did think Bennett had more upside. 

 

I'm not sure I agree he is the victim of his draft position. I'm in the same camp as you I think Bennett is better than most give him credit for and I don't think he is trending towards the "bust" that many want to argue. Easy to talk about the A now, but if you go back to his rookie season there was almost no talk of him playing in the A. He was awesome that training camp, earned a spot and then had a really good year. 18 goals and 36 points is nothing to sneeze at. The number 2 overall pick this year Nolan Patrick didn't do that this year. That was 5 more goals than Tkachuk had his rookie year. 

 

I am still firmly of the belief the issue is 2 fold. He got injured and missed essentially a whole year of hockey which set him back in his development and 2 the Flames did a poor job helping him learn the ropes. I dont' think it's realistic to expect a young player to learn and develop when he is having to carry the likes of Brouwer/Versteeg etc at 20 years old. What's he learning there? Whose showing him how to win draws, win battles, who is open on his wing for passes etc etc etc. I think it's gone south for him in the confidence department because he's a typical skilled player in that things have almost always gone his way and now at the biggest stage it's really tough. I think the Flames needed to have someone there that could help him along, shown him some tricks, and actually finish some of his plays (funny how much better Bennett played once Jagr arrived right). Typically young players need  this and the Flames did not do this with Bennett, heck when his confidence got low they didn't even give him PP time to try and fix it or if they did he was off of it after one mistake. 

 

Bennett's 2 way game has developed well and many of his underlying numbers are good. I really honestly think he if could just catch a break, get a coach who is willing to work with him, and get some support on the ice he can still be a very good player for the Flames. He needs to do more, but I can also see why he is so frustrated. 

[MAC331]

48 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

My recollection was 2014 was a good draft year but not quite as exciting as some years around it. 13, 15, and 16 have some incredible talent at the top and they were pretty insane both at the time and in hindsight to get that much so close together. 2014 felt a little behind that to be honest.  I seem to recall liking Monahan more in his draft year than Bennett, although I did think Bennett had more upside. 

 

I'm not sure I agree he is the victim of his draft position. I'm in the same camp as you I think Bennett is better than most give him credit for and I don't think he is trending towards the "bust" that many want to argue. Easy to talk about the A now, but if you go back to his rookie season there was almost no talk of him playing in the A. He was awesome that training camp, earned a spot and then had a really good year. 18 goals and 36 points is nothing to sneeze at. The number 2 overall pick this year Nolan Patrick didn't do that this year. That was 5 more goals than Tkachuk had his rookie year. 

 

I am still firmly of the belief the issue is 2 fold. He got injured and missed essentially a whole year of hockey which set him back in his development and 2 the Flames did a poor job helping him learn the ropes. I dont' think it's realistic to expect a young player to learn and develop when he is having to carry the likes of Brouwer/Versteeg etc at 20 years old. What's he learning there? Whose showing him how to win draws, win battles, who is open on his wing for passes etc etc etc. I think it's gone south for him in the confidence department because he's a typical skilled player in that things have almost always gone his way and now at the biggest stage it's really tough. I think the Flames needed to have someone there that could help him along, shown him some tricks, and actually finish some of his plays (funny how much better Bennett played once Jagr arrived right). Typically young players need  this and the Flames did not do this with Bennett, heck when his confidence got low they didn't even give him PP time to try and fix it or if they did he was off of it after one mistake. 

 

Bennett's 2 way game has developed well and many of his underlying numbers are good. I really honestly think he if could just catch a break, get a coach who is willing to work with him, and get some support on the ice he can still be a very good player for the Flames. He needs to do more, but I can also see why he is so frustrated. 

I have been wondering what a Monahan LW, Bennett C and Gaudreau RW would produce like. Gaudreau IMO should easily be able to adjust to RW and Monahan who is a step or 3 slower than Bennett scores a lot from the LS of the net. Bennett and Gaudreau have the speed to make this line responsible defensively as well. If these two can't get Bennett going we will know he is a lost cause.

[MAC331]

Is there a deal to be had from CAL to get DET's #6 pick ? Oliver Wahlstrom LW/RW shoots RHS would be a good add for our team.

I wouldn't be afraid to deal Hamilton there for their #6 and #30 picks they have and another 2nd rounder. Then sign Mike Green to a 2 year deal.

[cccsberg]

13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Is there a deal to be had from CAL to get DET's #6 pick ? Oliver Wahlstrom LW/RW shoots RHS would be a good add for our team.

I wouldn't be afraid to deal Hamilton there for their #6 and #30 picks they have and another 2nd rounder. Then sign Mike Green to a 2 year deal.

Nice idea, but hard to see a rebuilding Detroit give up so many high picks, even if the deal is reasonable.  Also, I've never liked Green much but perhaps I should check him out more?  I think there may be other reasonable D options out there.... Heck, with the money you are saving on Hamilton and the $3mm you'd save buying out Brouwer you could make an offer that can't be refused for someone like John Carlson to cement your top pair for the next 7 years.  

[conundrumed]

Detroit will be all over Quinn Hughes, they like their U of M developed guys. Can't see them turning that pick over. Next year they'll want his brother.

The 5-10 slots are loaded with Dmen. But Dmen almost always fall a bit.

[MAC331]

5 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Nice idea, but hard to see a rebuilding Detroit give up so many high picks, even if the deal is reasonable.  Also, I've never liked Green much but perhaps I should check him out more?  I think there may be other reasonable D options out there.... Heck, with the money you are saving on Hamilton and the $3mm you'd save buying out Brouwer you could make an offer that can't be refused for someone like John Carlson to cement your top pair for the next 7 years.  

I don't see DET doing a full rebuild and are in a similar position to ourselves when we added Hamilton as a key piece. I think Green with Giordano could work very well and Green would be good for our PP. Hopefully we would lose much in the way of production and pick up a few very needed forwards. Hard to say on Carlson only because we will have some forwards requiring significant contracts in a couple of years. I would rather keep a sort term situation on D until we know what we have if we have Andersson and Fox join the RSD along with Valimaki on the LSD.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Detroit will be all over Quinn Hughes, they like their U of M developed guys. Can't see them turning that pick over. Next year they'll want his brother.

The 5-10 slots are loaded with Dmen. But Dmen almost always fall a bit.

Just a suggestion to improve our club. We will know soon enough.

[The_People1]

30 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Is there a deal to be had from CAL to get DET's #6 pick ? Oliver Wahlstrom LW/RW shoots RHS would be a good add for our team.

I wouldn't be afraid to deal Hamilton there for their #6 and #30 picks they have and another 2nd rounder. Then sign Mike Green to a 2 year deal.

 

I would try Giordano for #6 overall.

[conundrumed]

Just now, MAC331 said:

Just a suggestion to improve our club. We will know soon enough.

Could always try to snag a 20's pick and snag Akil Thomas RHC.

[MAC331]

Just now, conundrumed said:

Could always try to snag a 20's pick and snag Akil Thomas RHC.

Was thinking Wahlstrom as an immediate impact RW for us with the pick.