Bill Peters - 17th Flames Coach

[MAC331]

3 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Is it mean of me to admit that I followed the Toronto series a bit just because I wanted to see the Leafs lose again? I am always fascinated at how their fans seem so surprised when the same thing happens over and over for decades. Like, are people from Toronto shocked when the sun sets and rises every day?

They are really no different than hockey fans anywhere else expecting SC glory along with their team. TOR is going to be a very team real soon.

[JTech780]

4 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

No Sir, I don't share this sentiment at all. 

 

I realize that our boys are out of it, and it was painful to watch the last couple months of the regular season, but there is some excellent hockey being played right now. While I couldn't care less about another Penguins/Capitals storyline, I am really looking forward to seeing how the other series' pan out. Winnipeg/Nashville will be fanBlockchainintastic, Boston/Tampa will be excellent as well, and San Jose/Las Vegas will be fast, and should be loads of fun to watch. 

 

That's not to say that the World Championships are unworthy of attention, but if you're ignoring the playoffs because your team isn't in it, you're missing out on the best hockey that's going to be played in the next six weeks. 

 

Love. 

I am sure the hockey is fantastic, but if I don't care who wins or loses, it is really hard for me to show any interest in the game. With the World Championships I have a team to route for. The only thing I am routing for in the playoffs now is that the Jets get knocked out in short order by the Preds, but even then I don't really care.

[cccsberg]

22 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Is it mean of me to admit that I followed the Toronto series a bit just because I wanted to see the Leafs lose again? I am always fascinated at how their fans seem so surprised when the same thing happens over and over for decades. Like, are people from Toronto shocked when the sun sets and rises every day?

Yup, and they seem to think their payers are like gods and will never be traded and other teams need to pony up and dump them some talented D for peanuts.  Must have been watching the Oilers for too many years.

[cccsberg]

22 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Amazing that is all you pick out of looking at that roster which lead to that TEAM's success.

Mac, you have your view and are not very open to others.  I understand.  Personally I think the Flames also have a very talented roster and immaturity isn't the primary reason why they failed, and another year or two of growth isn't going to magically make them more mature and then successful.  Is there some immaturity?  Yes, but trading those players is the answer not moddly-coddling them with excuses.  Of course, this is a problem with many young adults these days not only hockey players.  Very little respect for authority and feelings of entitlement abound.... but I digress.

[cccsberg]

26 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

They are really no different than hockey fans anywhere else expecting SC glory along with their team. TOR is going to be a very team real soon.

Very likely they'll regress next year after they lose several key vets and again fail to address upgrades at D.  But, yes, they do have a bunch of nice players...

[cccsberg]

21 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I am sure the hockey is fantastic, but if I don't care who wins or loses, it is really hard for me to show any interest in the game. With the World Championships I have a team to route for. The only thing I am routing for in the playoffs now is that the Jets get knocked out in short order by the Preds, but even then I don't really care.

Exactly, who really cares?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

They are really no different than hockey fans anywhere else expecting SC glory along with their team. TOR is going to be a very team real soon.

 

Well, they have a few choice players for sure.  

Star goalie - check

Star player - check

Couple of very good vets that are signed past the summer - check

Couple of great kids that will become very good players very soon - check

Some good depth - check

Questionable defense - check

 

 

 

[MAC331]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, they have a few choice players for sure.  

Star goalie - check

Star player - check

Couple of very good vets that are signed past the summer - check

Couple of great kids that will become very good players very soon - check

Some good depth - check

Questionable defense - check

 

 

 

Even their defense should develop well together.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Very likely they'll regress next year after they lose several key vets and again fail to address upgrades at D.  But, yes, they do have a bunch of nice players...

I won't be shocked to see them re-sign JVR and then they could stand to lose Bozak. Their defense should get better with each season of experience gained.

TOR and CGY SC final 2019/20.

[Heartbreaker]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

TOR and CGY SC final 2019/20.

 

Bettman nightmare... the only thing worse than that would be Calgary/Ottawa. 

 

Love. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Mac, you have your view and are not very open to others.  I understand.  Personally I think the Flames also have a very talented roster and immaturity isn't the primary reason why they failed, and another year or two of growth isn't going to magically make them more mature and then successful.  Is there some immaturity?  Yes, but trading those players is the answer not moddly-coddling them with excuses.  Of course, this is a problem with many young adults these days not only hockey players.  Very little respect for authority and feelings of entitlement abound.... but I digress.

See I didn't say they were immature, what I have meant all along is they need to gain experience as a group in order to become a team. More like a maturing process. We have some of the core parts ready to go but it is tough to gell when Tkachuk is 2nd season, Bennett not progressing as expected and Jankowski a 1st season rookie being relied on to the extent this team required. Don't get me wrong I think we will get where we need to go but I see another season required to really get us there.

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Bettman nightmare... the only thing worse than that would be Calgary/Ottawa. 

 

Love. 

I know which is why I would love to see it happen.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I am sure the hockey is fantastic, but if I don't care who wins or loses, it is really hard for me to show any interest in the game. With the World Championships I have a team to route for. The only thing I am routing for in the playoffs now is that the Jets get knocked out in short order by the Preds, but even then I don't really care.

The U.S.?

 

edit

Sorry JTech, I shoulda gone back a page, I'm stuck in the U18 Championship.

[travel_dude]

35 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Even their defense should develop well together.

 

I haven;t been all that impressed with TOR's defense.

Reilly is the best of the bunch.

Zaitsev?  Not a fan.

Gardiner?  Probably cost them game 7.  I don;t think he anything more than an offensive D-man playing with goal scorers.

 

The young D could develop into good players.  I haven't seen any young guys (except Reilly) that I would call top pairing material.

[MAC331]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I haven;t been all that impressed with TOR's defense.

Reilly is the best of the bunch.

Zaitsev?  Not a fan.

Gardiner?  Probably cost them game 7.  I don;t think he anything more than an offensive D-man playing with goal scorers.

 

The young D could develop into good players.  I haven't seen any young guys (except Reilly) that I would call top pairing material.

They have some time and if they would do a deal with BT for Hamilton it helps their top 4 a lot.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

They have some time and if they would do a deal with BT for Hamilton it helps their top 4 a lot.

 

Much like EDM, they have collected some good pieces.

 

They traded Kessel for Kapanen and the 1st that they dealt for Andersen.

Like EDM, they may need to deal a difference maker to get that 2nd stud D.

Both teams can score, but neither have an enviable defense.

No way CGY is trading Dougie for a lesser value than a Marner.

As such, there is no deal.

OEL is going to fetch a similar return.

 

Oh, BTW, I like what I have heard from Peters.  He has had success with the D, which is one of the areas I felt we needed to fix.  If he can do something with our bottom 6, then we could improve by leaps and bounds this season.  Of course, BT has to give him some help.  

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Much like EDM, they have collected some good pieces.

 

They traded Kessel for Kapanen and the 1st that they dealt for Andersen.

Like EDM, they may need to deal a difference maker to get that 2nd stud D.

Both teams can score, but neither have an enviable defense.

No way CGY is trading Dougie for a lesser value than a Marner.

As such, there is no deal.

OEL is going to fetch a similar return.

 

Oh, BTW, I like what I have heard from Peters.  He has had success with the D, which is one of the areas I felt we needed to fix.  If he can do something with our bottom 6, then we could improve by leaps and bounds this season.  Of course, BT has to give him some help.  

Not that I think it would happen anyways but I would trade Hamilton for the right return. I just don't see TOR trading Marner, it would be like us trading Tkachuk. If BT got back what he gave up for Hamilton in a 1st rd Nylander, 2nd equivalent Kapanen and another 2nd rounder I think you have to consider it. I like the scoring Hamilton brings but we all know he is a softy on defense. Creating one hole while filling two of our own makes for a good deal IMO.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Not that I think it would happen anyways but I would trade Hamilton for the right return. I just don't see TOR trading Marner, it would be like us trading Tkachuk. If BT got back what he gave up for Hamilton in a 1st rd Nylander, 2nd equivalent Kapanen and another 2nd rounder I think you have to consider it. I like the scoring Hamilton brings but we all know he is a softy on defense. Creating one hole while filling two of our own makes for a good deal IMO.

 

Hamilton is what, 25?

Consider that he could have another 10 years in the NHL, possibly Norris level.

Also consider that he has not be tasked to improve his defensive game.  He has Gio.

Also consider that he makes $5.75m for the next 3 years.  Trading him now for a forward(s) would result in a hole.

Getting an equivalent replacement would fetch $7m+ in FA or Gaudreau in a trade.  And that assumes one is available.  Ask EDM about that. 

 

Saying that, if Valimaki, Fox, Kylington and Andersson are able to become top 4 guys in the next 3 years, then we can trade most of the D-core.

 

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Hamilton is what, 25?

Consider that he could have another 10 years in the NHL, possibly Norris level.

Also consider that he has not be tasked to improve his defensive game.  He has Gio.

Also consider that he makes $5.75m for the next 3 years.  Trading him now for a forward(s) would result in a hole.

Getting an equivalent replacement would fetch $7m+ in FA or Gaudreau in a trade.  And that assumes one is available.  Ask EDM about that. 

 

Saying that, if Valimaki, Fox, Kylington and Andersson are able to become top 4 guys in the next 3 years, then we can trade most of the D-core.

 

Oh I'm sorry I thought we were switching Brodie back up with Giordano plus picking up two very talented young RW players. But thx for pointing out all of the many benefits Hamilton affords us. You go ask EDM it seems you know them well.

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Oh I'm sorry I thought we were switching Brodie back up with Giordano plus picking up two very talented young RW players. But thx for pointing out all of the many benefits Hamilton affords us. You go ask EDM it seems you know them well.

problem is Brodie is not Hamilton.. we have likely seen the top end of TJ(even if he returns to it) , Hamilton is just scratching the surface

We have Brodies in the system already -- Andersson, Kyllington, Valimaki, Fox.. odds are at least one of them will be that smooth skating , offensive dman in the 2nd pair 

we have no Hamiltons

 

Like my early example.. yes , you could trade Johnny , then move Tkachuk, or another talented scorer into the top line.. but you'd miss Johnny-- big time

Edmonton traded Hall , cuz they had McDavid..  the concept of moving him for a top pair dman made total sense.. just the player they settled on for that transaction was a tire fire 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Oh I'm sorry I thought we were switching Brodie back up with Giordano plus picking up two very talented young RW players. But thx for pointing out all of the many benefits Hamilton affords us. You go ask EDM it seems you know them well.

 

What is the asking price for a top 2 D?  Hall, Ryan Johannsen, Henrique?

How about one that has put up >40 points every year for the last 4 years? 

So you solved the RW situation.  Awesome.  Now you created a hole in the defense.

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

problem is Brodie is not Hamilton.. we have likely seen the top end of TJ(even if he returns to it) , Hamilton is just scratching the surface

We have Brodies in the system already -- Andersson, Kyllington, Valimaki, Fox.. odds are at least one of them will be that smooth skating , offensive dman in the 2nd pair 

we have no Hamiltons

 

Like my early example.. yes , you could trade Johnny , then move Tkachuk, or another talented scorer into the top line.. but you'd miss Johnny-- big time

Edmonton traded Hall , cuz they had McDavid..  the concept of moving him for a top pair dman made total sense.. just the player they settled on for that transaction was a tire fire 

I understand all of what you are saying and simply discussing possibilities. There are qualities I like about both players and there are the ones I don't like which is neither is great defensively.

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What is the asking price for a top 2 D?  Hall, Ryan Johannsen, Henrique?

How about one that has put up >40 points every year for the last 4 years? 

So you solved the RW situation.  Awesome.  Now you created a hole in the defense.

 

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What is the asking price for a top 2 D?  Hall, Ryan Johannsen, Henrique?

How about one that has put up >40 points every year for the last 4 years? 

So you solved the RW situation.  Awesome.  Now you created a hole in the defense.

I was going with your thinking that Brodie would step right back into Hamilton's spot on the RS and pick up where he left off with Giordano. Plus we complete our RW side with quality additions.

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I understand all of what you are saying and simply discussing possibilities. There are qualities I like about both players and there are the ones I don't like which is neither is great defensively.

that's where we disagree.. TJ is definitely lacking in the D side, but in Hamilton there's a reason the new coach described him as "elite, elite, elite "

He's definitely not physical , like many would hope a man of his size would be , but for d skills I'd say he's easily top 10 in the league.. and scarily is only going to keep getting better .

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

that's where we disagree.. TJ is definitely lacking in the D side, but in Hamilton there's a reason the new coach described him as "elite, elite, elite "

He's definitely not physical , like many would hope a man of his size would be , but for d skills I'd say he's easily top 10 in the league.. and scarily is only going to keep getting better .

I will agree he can improve but I would be reluctant to say he is in the top 10 yet. I will be clear on my thinking and that is to trade Brodie while he still has value. One more poor season and then we have lost that opportunity. I am good with Hamilton.