Brian Burke

[420since1974]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

What this does is now Treliving has to do way more managing up (dealing with King and Edwards) as opposed to being just focused on managing down (coaches, scouts and players). Burke I am guessing did most of the dealing with King and ownership while letting Treliving bounce ideas off of him and giving his input.  

 

King has proven in the past that he isn't a good hockey man, so less involved with hockey decisions he is the better the team is for it.

I've never been sure just what Brian Burke was being paid for.

Of course, I've read rumours that he was the buffer between Ken King & Brad Treliving, but have never heard any of the specifics, or even if it was actually true.

Personally, I feel that GMs do a much better job when they only have to deal with the hockey side of the operation, and not spend much (if any) time on the venue issues.

As to Ken King, again I've heard rumours of interference/micro managing, but no true confirmation that it has really occurred.

I can only hope that regardless of his title, Don Maloney does become the "buffer" between King & Treliving, that Burke was rumoured to be.

One thing for sure, if/when the Flames move on from Treliving, I do not want to see Maloney become Calgary's GM.

[rickross]

Burke should learn how to tie a tie with the extra time he'll have. I'd hope they don't view Maloney as a GM candidate, I think they'd consider Brad Pascal or Craig Conroy over Maloney if they're looking internally. 

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, rickross said:

Burke should learn how to tie a tie with the extra time he'll have. I'd hope they don't view Maloney as a GM candidate, I think they'd consider Brad Pascal or Craig Conroy over Maloney if they're looking internally. 

I don't think they are looking for a GM they have one his name is Brad Treliving. Burke himself said his position was not to be a long term deal and they have all agreed the time has come. Treliving now has experience and lots of good help surrounding him.

[Cowtownguy]

I would still like to know what Burke's mandate was. The organization really blew the rebuild IMO. Feaster started off selecting the best players available, big or small, to get some offence happening after we lost Iggy. He hired Hartley to coach the motley crew, and says we are in a five year rebuild. Don't expect much until that timeframe is up. Some fans react, but the big boys are unhappy with the timeframe, so Feaster walks it back and says he expects them to win, but not necessarily to win. I suspect a lot of fans were confused. They go out and acquire Burke who says he can speed it up. Five years is up, Burke is gone, and we are far from tinkering. It would have been nice to have a solid time span, a consistent and realistic range of expectations, and more transparent evaluations.

 

I think that is why this year was so disappointing. Burke said five years or less, Treliving is spending to the cap, and it looked like the rebuild was pretty much over after some major acquisitions. If Burke's only real job was to be hired (i.e. provide the team with his name), he performed well. If it was to mentor Treliving, then I suppose that he has done his job. We don't really know for at least another year or so. If it was to turn around the club, I am not sure how well he was done. In the end, it was strange to get a person of his stature and not know how well he performed. He is known for being loud, gritty, making major trades etc, and we did not really see a lot of that. How do you evaluate the performance of a guy when you never knew what his job was to begin with?

 

Hockey managers are worse than politicians these days. What happened?

[cross16]

I think the one thing that has been forgotten about in regard to the Flames hiring Burke, was the state of the Flames and their hockey ops. The flames were basically a laughing stock under Feaster, Weisbrod, and King. Yes they did some good things and I'm not here to bring up that debate again or throw dirt on them, but it is well known that within the hockey world the Flames were considered a mess. 

 

Burke was hired to fix that. Clean up hockey ops, makes the moves he felt were necessary and set up the department in a functional way. I would say he succeeded in his mandate. 

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think the one thing that has been forgotten about in regard to the Flames hiring Burke, was the state of the Flames and their hockey ops. The flames were basically a laughing stock under Feaster and Weisbrod.yes they did some good things and I'm not here to bring up that debate again or throw dirt on them, but it is well known that the buzz in the hockey world was the Flames were a mess. 

 

Burke was hired to fix that. Clean up hockey ops, makes the moves he felt were necessary and set up the department in a functional way. I would say he succeeded in his mandate. 

Not to mention keeping King away from the hockey operations decisions.

[The_Tribal Chief]

We all can dis-like King but we honestly sincerely dont know how much he effects the Business Side of the Flames If he Effected As Much as we all think he has he wouldnt be in the position he is in

[MAC331]

20 hours ago, The_Snowbear said:

We all can dis-like King but we honestly sincerely dont know how much he effects the Business Side of the Flames If he Effected As Much as we all think he has he wouldnt be in the position he is in

How do you know that we don't know ? LOL

King has a huge ego and when Feaster was here he was interfering a lot with Hockey Ops which had to fixed.

[Cowtownguy]

On May 7, 2018 at 9:39 PM, cross16 said:

I think the one thing that has been forgotten about in regard to the Flames hiring Burke, was the state of the Flames and their hockey ops. The flames were basically a laughing stock under Feaster, Weisbrod, and King. Yes they did some good things and I'm not here to bring up that debate again or throw dirt on them, but it is well known that within the hockey world the Flames were considered a mess. 

 

Burke was hired to fix that. Clean up hockey ops, makes the moves he felt were necessary and set up the department in a functional way. I would say he succeeded in his mandate. 

While I suspect that you are correct, can you identify a few things that Burke has done (apart from his name just being on the Flames' management team)? He hired Treliving and I would assume mentored him to some extent. He pushed for the new arena and did some great charity work. I am not saying that he did nothing, or did his job poorly, I am saying that I just don't know what he did apart from the above.

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

While I suspect that you are correct, can you identify a few things that Burke has done (apart from his name just being on the Flames' management team)? He hired Treliving and I would assume mentored him to some extent. He pushed for the new arena and did some great charity work. I am not saying that he did nothing, or did his job poorly, I am saying that I just don't know what he did apart from the above.

 

From what I understand you pretty much have it. I do understand he was part of bringing in Don Maloney and I believe helped hire/fire some scouts as well and reform their scouting but he was also quick to give Treliving more of the credit there. The Flames have really turned up their drafting under Treliving. It's also my understanding that when Treliving's contract was extended Burke helped get a clause in there that gives Treliving full autonomy over personnel decisions and up to that point everything had to be cleared by Ken King. Again, I can't say that definitively but I've heard it enough from proper sources to believe it to be true. Some may not beelive that having him, just even as a name, in the organization is/was important but I do think it was especially when you consider the reputation the Flames would have had. I don't think they have that same reputation anymore. 

 

The list is not long in terms of accomplishments, no doubt. However, I do think getting the franchise back on track is an extremely important job and he did that. His legacy will hinge on the success/failure of Treliving. 

[Heartbreaker]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

...It's also my understanding that when Treliving's contract was extended Burke helped get a clause in there that gives Treliving full autonomy over personnel decisions and up to that point everything had to be cleared by Ken King.

 

I recall at the 2013 draft when it was rumoured that there was trade in place orchestrated by Jay Feaster between the Flames and the Bruins that involved Johnny Gaudreau (who was still in college) and other pieces that aren't known, but not including the 6th overall pick (Sean Monohan) in exchange for Tyler Seguin, and that it was kiboshed by ownership. 

 

Of course, I don't know if that's true, but where there's smoke.. 

 

It makes no sense to debate whether or not that trade would have worked out for the Flames, but I was quite disturbed by the purported meddling. 

 

Love.  

[The_Tribal Chief]

You think he was interfering you dont Know  unless I have Missed something and your Standing on managements Shoulder you have no clue what is said behind closed doors What we see is alot different then takes place

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, The_Snowbear said:

You think he was interfering you dont Know  unless I have Missed something and your Standing on managements Shoulder you have no clue what is said behind closed doors What we see is alot different then takes place

I'm pretty sure that's why he said he didn't know if it's true.

But Heartbreaker, I think the rumour was Gaudreau AND the 6th.

It was Fox Sports in Boston that leaked it.

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm pretty sure that's why he said he didn't know if it's true.

But Heartbreaker, I think the rumour was Gaudreau AND the 6th.

It was Fox Sports in Boston that leaked it.

 

From what I recall it was actually Gaudreau, the 6th and a roster player. Hearbreaker is right it doesn't deserve a ton of debate but it does reinforce just how bad of a situation hockey ops was in before Burke got here. Both ends of the story are bad, first that Feaster was about to make a really bad trade and 2nd King/owners were able to step in and say no. Neither part of the equation is a positive. 

 

Do we know for sure, probably not and never will. However, are there enough stories from that era that strongly support that King and or owners were VERY involved, yes there are. That's not even the worst story I've heard. 

[Cowtownguy]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

From what I recall it was actually Gaudreau, the 6th and a roster player. Hearbreaker is right it doesn't deserve a ton of debate but it does reinforce just how bad of a situation hockey ops was in before Burke got here. Both ends of the story are bad, first that Feaster was about to make a really bad trade and 2nd King/owners were able to step in and say no. Neither part of the equation is a positive. 

 

Do we know for sure, probably not and never will. However, are there enough stories from that era that strongly support that King and or owners were VERY involved, yes there are. That's not even the worst story I've heard. 

WTF!? Like, are you my wife or something? She is the only one I know who drops cliff hangers like that one. Something along the lines of, "I think that we need to talk after you finish that mountain of paperwork. Luck!". What is the worst story that you have heard dammit!?!?!?

[cross16]

48 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

WTF!? Like, are you my wife or something? She is the only one I know who drops cliff hangers like that one. Something along the lines of, "I think that we need to talk after you finish that mountain of paperwork. Luck!". What is the worst story that you have heard dammit!?!?!?

 

The worst is King costing the Flames Bishop. Flames - Tampa had a deal worked out twice but the first time King nixed the salary offer and the 2nd time he was un reachable and at the time he insisted on being told of all deals prior to their completion. Yzerman wasn't willing to wait given that he had already been reneged on once so he dealt Bishop to LA. 

 

It's speculation and I will be completely honest that no one I trust has repeated it to me. Given what I have heard, and what I trust, it didn't come as a shock to me but it is after all still a story. 

[phoenix66]

42 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

The worst is King costing the Flames Bishop. Flames - Tampa had a deal worked out twice but the first time King nixed the salary offer and the 2nd time he was un reachable and at the time he insisted on being told of all deals prior to their completion. Yzerman wasn't willing to wait given that he had already been reneged on once so he dealt Bishop to LA. 

 

It's speculation and I will be completely honest that no one I trust has repeated it to me. Given what I have heard, and what I trust, it didn't come as a shock to me but it is after all still a story. 

I agree, Ive heard so many different versions of this ..

 

One story i did hear , that was right from a source, was Craig Conroy.  In an interview with Brian Sutter . he had said that many deals were nixed by upper management (King). One had Craig Button swinging a deal for Craig Conroy from St Louis, A year before we actually did do it.. but at "far less going the other way ". It was nixed by King due to Conroy's salary 

 

Another one that I have heard far too many times for it not to have traction , was  Darryl Sutter had a trade in place for Iggy to be traded to LA for a package that included Dustin Brown and Jonathan Bernier (something else too but cant recall) and ownership nixed it 

[DirtyDeeds]

On 5/10/2018 at 10:08 AM, cross16 said:

 

From what I understand you pretty much have it. I do understand he was part of bringing in Don Maloney and I believe helped hire/fire some scouts as well and reform their scouting but he was also quick to give Treliving more of the credit there. The Flames have really turned up their drafting under Treliving. It's also my understanding that when Treliving's contract was extended Burke helped get a clause in there that gives Treliving full autonomy over personnel decisions and up to that point everything had to be cleared by Ken King. Again, I can't say that definitively but I've heard it enough from proper sources to believe it to be true. Some may not beelive that having him, just even as a name, in the organization is/was important but I do think it was especially when you consider the reputation the Flames would have had. I don't think they have that same reputation anymore. 

 

The list is not long in terms of accomplishments, no doubt. However, I do think getting the franchise back on track is an extremely important job and he did that. His legacy will hinge on the success/failure of Treliving. 

I'll add to the above

 

When Burke was hired on we had no hockey person to run things.

Ken King is a marketing man with no hockey experience. Any major decision for the Flames went through Ken King before it hit the owners.

 

Feaster never played and he himself said he need hockey people around him to help him with that shortcoming.

Burke at least played some Providence Friar Hockey and some AHL hockey.