So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[phoenix66]

21 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

So while we're waiting patiently for BP&BT to finalize their assistant coaches on the Flames' front, and the VGN to throttle the Caps on the NHL front, wasn't it interesting how Vegas and the refs handled the Wilson late hit in last night's game?  Is there something to learn here to be applied to the Flames?

 

To start, let's just say the hit WAS late, but otherwise fine, and ultimately the refs handled it ok.  However, the details are very interesting.  Apparently the refs didn't see the hit, as their lengthy huddle did not lead to a Wilson penalty, but rather they gave equivalent penalties to Wilson and Perron.  Unfortunately, Perron entered the ice after the hit, with Marchessault still on the ice, meaning it should have been a "Too Many Men" penalty, plus an Automatic 10-game suspension to Perron for coming off the bench and entering a fray.  Is this not correct?  Plus, the Perron scrap was with Ovechkin... what?  The end result concocted by the refs cooled things down appreciably which was fine, and they were able to do a "make-up" non-call later in the third period when Reaves made a clearcut cross-check to Carlson right in the slot and feet in front of the ref, milli-seconds before Reaves picked up a rebound and roofed it for the eventual winning goal.  So, all in all, justice was served, Marchessault is OK and Vegas got their revenge with a victory, aided by the sympathetic refs.

 

Now, think about standard events after such a hit.  Wouldn't the Flames, and fans be going right after the Caps trying to fight and even things out?  Probably so.  But really don't you have to admire the Knights for their composure and getting even by scoring, as well as realizing and utilizing the sympathy/embarrassment of the refs to their own benefit?  I'm thinking perhaps the flames need to do something, perhaps like the Jets did last season, in conjunction with the refs to help develop/re-establish a good rapport between them and the refs?  Also, a focus on getting even thru the scoreboard would be way better than goofing it up.  How will Bill Peters handle these things, and will the Flames need an enforcer?  

there is a time and a place.  you can likely guarantee Wilson and Reaves will have a fight before this series is over .. but not when an opportunity for an advantage in the SCF is on the line 

If anything , our motto has always been to do nothing .. thats part of our problem 

 

I have been eating a Big Serving of Crow last couple weeks tho . Reaves CAN play .. and serves/ plays  a huge role .. I now DO want us to go after him hard on July 1

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

there is a time and a place.  you can likely guarantee Wilson and Reaves will have a fight before this series is over .. but not when an opportunity for an advantage in the SCF is on the line 

If anything , our motto has always been to do nothing .. thats part of our problem 

 

I have been eating a Big Serving of Crow last couple weeks tho . Reaves CAN play .. and serves/ plays  a huge role .. I now DO want us to go after him hard on July 1

 

If you said Wilson, I would be all over that.  

You want to sign instead a guy only capable of playing 10 minutes a night.

I guess he would have the refs ignoring Tkachuk and calling him instead.  Fine.

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you said Wilson, I would be all over that.  

You want to sign instead a guy only capable of playing 10 minutes a night.

I guess he would have the refs ignoring Tkachuk and calling him instead.  Fine.

 

 

Oh no, the refs are more than capable of penalizing multiple players all at once. See last two years of officiating.

[phoenix66]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you said Wilson, I would be all over that.  

You want to sign instead a guy only capable of playing 10 minutes a night.

I guess he would have the refs ignoring Tkachuk and calling him instead.  Fine.

 

 

But he gives a good 10 minutes .. 4th line 

 

One telling thing from BT's interview with Francis the other day , he did point out that he sees the differences between players who get you to the playoffs and those who help you win when you get there .I believe now he will take a very close look at Reaves

 

I've  watched close..  Hasnt been in a fight in the playoffs yet ,  actually hasn't been in a fight at all since before Christmas

but I've seen him be very disciplined, he could have jumped Wilson but no , they took the powerplay 

He hits , and hits a lot ,  .. 27 hits in 7 Playoff games 

He totally took Buff of his game against Winnipeg

He creates room and energy for his line  and he's +3 in 7 games .. so good things happen when hes out there 

He's surprisingly a very good skater 

he's already scored 2 big playoff goals 

 

everything I had read or barely seen of him had me convinced he was a 1 dimension goon, but I'm seeing he's not . he actually plays the game smart 

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

But he gives a good 10 minutes .. 4th line 

 

One telling thing from BT's interview with Francis the other day , he did point out that he sees the differences between players who get you to the playoffs and those who help you win when you get there .I believe now he will take a very close look at Reaves

 

I've  watched close..  Hasnt been in a fight in the playoffs yet ,  actually hasn't been in a fight at all since before Christmas

but I've seen him be very disciplined, he could have jumped Wilson but no , they took the powerplay 

He hits , and hits a lot ,  .. 27 hits in 7 Playoff games 

He totally took Buff of his game against Winnipeg

He creates room and energy for his line  and he's +3 in 7 games .. so good things happen when hes out there 

He's surprisingly a very good skater 

he's already scored 2 big playoff goals 

 

everything I had read or barely seen of him had me convinced he was a 1 dimension goon, but I'm seeing he's not . he actually plays the game smart 

Just to nitpick, his goal last night is a cross-checking penalty every time. Or so I thought...

Let's not play the playoff player game. It = Brouwers.

Zero interest in the Reaves hype train. Look at it this way, he's well rested because he spends a lot of time in the press box.

We need top 6 RWs, a LD, a 3LW and a G, in that order, imho. None of those are Ryan Reaves.

[cross16]

18 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Just to nitpick, his goal last night is a cross-checking penalty every time. Or so I thought...

Let's not play the playoff player game. It = Brouwers.

Zero interest in the Reaves hype train. Look at it this way, he's well rested because he spends a lot of time in the press box.

We need top 6 RWs, a LD, a 3LW and a G, in that order, imho. None of those are Ryan Reaves.

 

Amen.

 

If anything now some team is going to overrate and probably overpay him ala Matt Martin so let's not be that team. Let's learn our lesson from Brouwer and stop having buyout candidates on the roster. 

[MAC331]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎29 at 2:47 PM, cross16 said:

 

Amen.

 

If anything now some team is going to overrate and probably overpay him ala Matt Martin so let's not be that team. Let's learn our lesson from Brouwer and stop having buyout candidates on the roster. 

What if Reaves isn't expensive and a possible buyout candidate as you put it ? I would think a line of Ferland, Ryan, Reaves for a 4th line and two good substitutes as our 13 and 14th forwards would serve us well.

To: conundrum, how do you figure we need 3 LW or is that a LW for our 3rd line ? Either way we have a number of LW options for next season in house. I can see where we may need a LD if someone there now is traded but again have some in house options. There is no way we need another Goalie. BT should be focused on quality top 6 RWs IMO.

I am hearing there is the distinct possibility that both Brodie and Hamilton could be traded.

[cross16]

21 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

What if Reaves isn't expensive and a possible buyout candidate as you put it ? I would think a line of Ferland, Ryan, Reaves for a 4th line and two good substitutes as our 13 and 14th forwards would serve us well.

 

 

Ryan Reaves could play for the league minimum and I would not want him on this team. I don't even like Lazar and I would prefer to have Lazar on the 4th line over Reaves. I want speed, tempo and energy from the 4th line and that isn't Reaves. Let's not let a few recent games erase what the guy has been his whole career. 

 

Maybe he doesn't get overpaid but the hype seems to be pointing in the direction he will. 

[MAC331]

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Ryan Reaves could play for the league minimum and I would not want him on this team. I don't even like Lazar and I would prefer to have Lazar on the 4th line over Reaves. I want speed, tempo and energy from the 4th line and that isn't Reaves. Let's not let a few recent games erase what the guy has been his whole career. 

 

Maybe he doesn't get overpaid but the hype seems to be pointing in the direction he will. 

I will simply disagree only because you and I see what is necessary to win very differently. Reaves provides you speed, tempo and energy along with great room character and on ice influence. You need a few of these guys on your team they are more valuable than you think, especially if we had a lame dressing room.

[ABC923]

45 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I will simply disagree only because you and I see what is necessary to win very differently. Reaves provides you speed, tempo and energy along with great room character and on ice influence. You need a few of these guys on your team they are more valuable than you think, especially if we had a lame dressing room.

We already have tons of ‘good in the dressing room’ type guys.  That’s always what they say about guys like Stajan, Brouwer, Versteeg, etc.  I’d rather have good on the ice guys personally.

[MAC331]

51 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

We already have tons of ‘good in the dressing room’ type guys.  That’s always what they say about guys like Stajan, Brouwer, Versteeg, etc.  I’d rather have good on the ice guys personally.

Name them ? and if they were that good why such a poor attitude of play coming out of the dressing room ? I am more concerned about our top 9 line chemistry than what has been suggested here.

[ABC923]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Name them ? and if they were that good why such a poor attitude of play coming out of the dressing room ? I am more concerned about our top 9 line chemistry than what has been suggested here.

I've already given you three.  Giordano is often noted as a good dressing room guy, and I believe Smith had that reputation coming in as well.  Lazar is known for being almost too positive given his circumstances, and while I haven't heard much about Hamonic as far as locker room guys go, he's a stellar humanitarian and involved in the community.  It's hard not to see Tkachuk as being one of those guys too, but that gets overlooked because he contributes so much on the ice already.  Frolik is also someone who is much liked by his teammates as well, and considered a good influence.

 

There have been others in recent years too, who were valued for there off ice impacts.  Bollig and McGratten come to mind immediately.  Unfortunately most of the time you hear 'so and so is great in the room', or 'a real leader in the room', it's because their contributions on the ice leave a lot to be desired.  Bringing in a fourth line plugger to be another 'leader in the room' is a waste of time in my opinion.  As far as the attitude on the ice goes, that's up for interpretation.  Personally I place a fair amount of the blame on the coaching staff and GG.  The team more or less mirrored the coach's attitude, which was flat most of the time punctuated by brief periods of emotion.  This team played with the same emotional investment as GG showed on the bench and in the press conferences.

 

I'm also a firm believer that one bad apple can spoil the bunch.  It's better to root out attitude problems (if they exist) than to try and bring in guys with good attitudes to compensate.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

I've already given you three.  Giordano is often noted as a good dressing room guy, and I believe Smith had that reputation coming in as well.  Lazar is known for being almost too positive given his circumstances, and while I haven't heard much about Hamonic as far as locker room guys go, he's a stellar humanitarian and involved in the community.  It's hard not to see Tkachuk as being one of those guys too, but that gets overlooked because he contributes so much on the ice already.  Frolik is also someone who is much liked by his teammates as well, and considered a good influence.

 

There have been others in recent years too, who were valued for there off ice impacts.  Bollig and McGratten come to mind immediately.  Unfortunately most of the time you hear 'so and so is great in the room', or 'a real leader in the room', it's because their contributions on the ice leave a lot to be desired.  Bringing in a fourth line plugger to be another 'leader in the room' is a waste of time in my opinion.  As far as the attitude on the ice goes, that's up for interpretation.  Personally I place a fair amount of the blame on the coaching staff and GG.  The team more or less mirrored the coach's attitude, which was flat most of the time punctuated by brief periods of emotion.  This team played with the same emotional investment as GG showed on the bench and in the press conferences.

 

I'm also a firm believer that one bad apple can spoil the bunch.  It's better to root out attitude problems (if they exist) than to try and bring in guys with good attitudes to compensate.

You see this is where the misconception begins when one thinks a player is only good in the room (who cares) the effort on the ice has to match the message in the room. McGratten would be this type not Bollig IMO. We all know Giordano is an around good influence on this team. Smith sure to some degree but more so his play as a goalie will breed confidence or not. Lazar are you serious, not a chance because he can't buy enough ice to show his worth. Backlund and Frolik lead by example which is good. Tkachuk is gaining the respect of his team mates fast but he will have to produce more and be less of a punk. Guys like Reaves allow this to happen.

[Khrox]

19 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Tkachuk is gaining the respect of his team mates fast but he will have to produce more and be less of a punk.

Tkachuk has 97 points in 144 games. That is roughly 2 points every 3 games. That's not bad at all. Not only that, but when you look at his draft year (admittedly only 2 seasons of play), Laine, and Matthews, are the only ones to produce at a better clip than him. Hard to say he needs to produce more. The punk thing is debatable. There have been a few questionable plays, but as a whole, changing his style too much lowers his value to the team. The crotch spear and stuff like that, yeah, that can go. The suspension for dropping Doughty? I'll take that every day of the week.

[MAC331]

42 minutes ago, Khrox said:

Tkachuk has 97 points in 144 games. That is roughly 2 points every 3 games. That's not bad at all. Not only that, but when you look at his draft year (admittedly only 2 seasons of play), Laine, and Matthews, are the only ones to produce at a better clip than him. Hard to say he needs to produce more. The punk thing is debatable. There have been a few questionable plays, but as a whole, changing his style too much lowers his value to the team. The crotch spear and stuff like that, yeah, that can go. The suspension for dropping Doughty? I'll take that every day of the week.

Never said he wasn't good only that as he matures should be even better for us. Also to have a guy such as Reaves around they feel less inclined to have to be the one(s) causing a ruckas. Call it a quiet confidence factor.

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Never said he wasn't good only that as he matures should be even better for us. Also to have a guy such as Reaves around they feel less inclined to have to be the one(s) causing a ruckas. Call it a quiet confidence factor.

 

I can see Reaves getting a bloated contract now. What was the guy ‘s name who played great for Anaheim or something like that and had done zip since? Belesky?

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I can see Reaves getting a bloated contract now. What was the guy ‘s name who played great for Anaheim or something like that and had done zip since? Belesky?

If that is the case don't sign him however Belesky was on a fairly productive 1st or 2nd line racking up points to get the contract he did. Ferland would be more of a comparison on that one. Reaves does what he does and everyone knows what that is and the related value.

[travel_dude]

On 5/29/2018 at 2:13 PM, phoenix66 said:

But he gives a good 10 minutes .. 4th line 

 

One telling thing from BT's interview with Francis the other day , he did point out that he sees the differences between players who get you to the playoffs and those who help you win when you get there .I believe now he will take a very close look at Reaves

 

I've  watched close..  Hasnt been in a fight in the playoffs yet ,  actually hasn't been in a fight at all since before Christmas

but I've seen him be very disciplined, he could have jumped Wilson but no , they took the powerplay 

He hits , and hits a lot ,  .. 27 hits in 7 Playoff games 

He totally took Buff of his game against Winnipeg

He creates room and energy for his line  and he's +3 in 7 games .. so good things happen when hes out there 

He's surprisingly a very good skater 

he's already scored 2 big playoff goals 

 

everything I had read or barely seen of him had me convinced he was a 1 dimension goon, but I'm seeing he's not . he actually plays the game smart 

 

I really hope he has learned his lesson after Brouwer.  Brouwer was that guy in STL's playoffs.  He got paid by us for it.  

Game 2, it was Reaves that took the penalty against Wilson. 

STL suckered PITTS then PITTS suckered VGK with the player.

Could have used a player like him two years ago against the Ducks, but just for the playoffs.  Might as well beat on someone when you lose.

 

Maybe we can build a team that can compete on the basis of talent.  I think we have some good pieces.   

[Thebrewcrew]

No from me on Ryan Reaves

 

Quite frankly until the last couple of weeks I was kind of thinking Reaves would be out of the league next season. However a couple of really solid games have me thinking he will find work. Good for him, just hope it’s not here 

[Khrox]

We already have a guy I would take over Reaves any day. Ferland can hit, fight, skate, and score. And he does it all, while being able to play more than 10 minutes a night. If you want that fourth liner that plays 10 minutes a night, who can skate, hit, create energy, fight if needed, and potentially score (I wont say score, Reaves has 2 goals this playoffs, and 3 goals/0 assists in 44 playoff games total), we also have Hathaway (ideally a 4th liner) and Lomberg. And both of those guys provide good speed, and potential special teams usage (as PK'ers, unlike Reaves). I just feel like if you want a Reave's like guy, it's easier to use what we have in-house. Otherwise, you're probably overpaying, or your getting someone closer to a Wilson or Ferland who wouldn't exactly fit the 10 minute/night role. Remember, Reaves at the end of the day, is still just a 4th line enforcer with little upside. Almost 500 games in the NHL proves that (498gp, with 31g/30a, 789 PIM, -11 regular season, 44gp, 3g/0a 29 PIM, +1 in playoffs). If anything, this year is his most productive playoffs, and third most productive regular season in his career, at 31. If we want his stats and a legitimate enforcer, we could see if McGratton or Tim Jackman wants a 1 year deal to play with us again (obviously I'm joking, neither of those guys would fit what we are building and haven't played in a couple years, and I'd take both of them over Reaves).

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, Khrox said:

We already have a guy I would take over Reaves any day. Ferland can hit, fight, skate, and score. And he does it all, while being able to play more than 10 minutes a night. If you want that fourth liner that plays 10 minutes a night, who can skate, hit, create energy, fight if needed, and potentially score (I wont say score, Reaves has 2 goals this playoffs, and 3 goals/0 assists in 44 playoff games total), we also have Hathaway (ideally a 4th liner) and Lomberg. And both of those guys provide good speed, and potential special teams usage (as PK'ers, unlike Reaves). I just feel like if you want a Reave's like guy, it's easier to use what we have in-house. Otherwise, you're probably overpaying, or your getting someone closer to a Wilson or Ferland who wouldn't exactly fit the 10 minute/night role. Remember, Reaves at the end of the day, is still just a 4th line enforcer with little upside. Almost 500 games in the NHL proves that (498gp, with 31g/30a, 789 PIM, -11 regular season, 44gp, 3g/0a 29 PIM, +1 in playoffs). If anything, this year is his most productive playoffs, and third most productive regular season in his career, at 31. If we want his stats and a legitimate enforcer, we could see if McGratton or Tim Jackman wants a 1 year deal to play with us again (obviously I'm joking, neither of those guys would fit what we are building and haven't played in a couple years, and I'd take both of them over Reaves).

Ferland has a soft head and shouldn't be fighting. Hathaway and Lomberg are lightweight that will never be taken seriously at the NHL level. Wilson vs Reaves sure I would take Wilson all day long but he is more a 3rd line player and will get paid like one. At the end of the day we still play in the Western Conference where size and toughness matter.

[phoenix66]

8 hours ago, Khrox said:

We already have a guy I would take over Reaves any day. Ferland can hit, fight, skate, and score. And he does it all, while being able to play more than 10 minutes a night. If you want that fourth liner that plays 10 minutes a night, who can skate, hit, create energy, fight if needed, and potentially score (I wont say score, Reaves has 2 goals this playoffs, and 3 goals/0 assists in 44 playoff games total), we also have Hathaway (ideally a 4th liner) and Lomberg. And both of those guys provide good speed, and potential special teams usage (as PK'ers, unlike Reaves). I just feel like if you want a Reave's like guy, it's easier to use what we have in-house. Otherwise, you're probably overpaying, or your getting someone closer to a Wilson or Ferland who wouldn't exactly fit the 10 minute/night role. Remember, Reaves at the end of the day, is still just a 4th line enforcer with little upside. Almost 500 games in the NHL proves that (498gp, with 31g/30a, 789 PIM, -11 regular season, 44gp, 3g/0a 29 PIM, +1 in playoffs). If anything, this year is his most productive playoffs, and third most productive regular season in his career, at 31. If we want his stats and a legitimate enforcer, we could see if McGratton or Tim Jackman wants a 1 year deal to play with us again (obviously I'm joking, neither of those guys would fit what we are building and haven't played in a couple years, and I'd take both of them over Reaves).

Can Ferland?  Yes.. Does Ferland?  No   for whatever reason he doesn't do that role.. Its like saying If Hamilton can just throw his weight around , he'd be scary.. but that's just not what he does .

 

Here is the thing .. i think we can all agree that right now at least , Vegas is the prototype of the New Nhl team.  Fast , attacking , 4 lines. They keep coming at you , with speed and intensity, and when they falter a bit they have a goalie that stops the puck.

The NHL is a copycat league, everybody wants to be like Vegas now .

Well.. Vegas has Reaves and Engelland in the lineup .. both have played a large role in getting to the final 

Washington has Smith Pelley and Wilson in the lineup.  Both have played a large role in getting to the final .

 

I'm not advocating for a tough guy for the sake of it, seeing a fight every game. Those days are gone. But a new age "hybrid player " is a necessity.

These players let the skill players play. The Karlsson's, the Marchessault, the Kuznetsov's play just a little freer knowing they are there .

I think we VASTLY undervalued Engelland and lost more than we bargained for when he left . We rave about how well the comeback kids played under Hartley that one magical season .. well , we had Engelland and Bollig  and Bouma in that lineup ..won a series.. even got a game out of Anaheim 

 

The reason I put stock in a Vegas player , is they dont have slots there .. meaning they dont bring in players and continue to pigeon hole them to what they appear to be . They put them on the ice and let them show what they can do . I know I have done a full 180 on my opinion of Reaves, because St Louis and Pittsburgh saw him a certain way and played him that way. Vegas has put him out in different situations hes not used to and hes not a liability out there . That's shown me , at least , he can be a hybrid. Play smart, give 10  4th line minutes a game and be productive and not a liability . 

 

Its easy to say " punish the abuse by scoring on the powerplay ".. but when a Lucic hacks your star dman and then roughs up your goalie, and the only price he gets to pay for it is the courtesy of being able to clean the clock of your 4th line part timer.. that sends a bad message.

I GUARANTEE if we still had Engelland on that bench , that does not happen .. and if it did , it happens once and never again .

The soft teams are all gone .. 2 remain , and they both employ a hybrid or 2.

Do we want Johnny having to lay 2 handers on players when they rough him up ? as much as I'm glad he finally did it, that's not productive .

I'm all for the team playing the role as a whole.. but that player that makes idiots think twice before doing stupid things cant be measured .

Engelland had very few fights here..he didnt need to . Reaves had 6 all last year , none since Xmas, none in the playoffs . He has more than one dimension 

 

I firmly believe when the puck drops on the next season , we will have that player in our lineup .Maybe its not Reaves, but its a player like him. Just right now I cant think of a better Hybrid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MAC331]

19 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Can Ferland?  Yes.. Does Ferland?  No   for whatever reason he doesn't do that role.. Its like saying If Hamilton can just throw his weight around , he'd be scary.. but that's just not what he does .

 

Here is the thing .. i think we can all agree that right now at least , Vegas is the prototype of the New Nhl team.  Fast , attacking , 4 lines. They keep coming at you , with speed and intensity, and when they falter a bit they have a goalie that stops the puck.

The NHL is a copycat league, everybody wants to be like Vegas now .

Well.. Vegas has Reaves and Engelland in the lineup .. both have played a large role in getting to the final 

Washington has Smith Pelley and Wilson in the lineup.  Both have played a large role in getting to the final .

 

I'm not advocating for a tough guy for the sake of it, seeing a fight every game. Those days are gone. But a new age "hybrid player " is a necessity.

These players let the skill players play. The Karlsson's, the Marchessault, the Kuznetsov's play just a little freer knowing they are there .

I think we VASTLY undervalued Engelland and lost more than we bargained for when he left . We rave about how well the comeback kids played under Hartley that one magical season .. well , we had Engelland and Bollig  and Bouma in that lineup ..won a series.. even got a game out of Anaheim 

 

The reason I put stock in a Vegas player , is they dont have slots there .. meaning they dont bring in players and continue to pigeon hole them to what they appear to be . They put them on the ice and let them show what they can do . I know I have done a full 180 on my opinion of Reaves, because St Louis and Pittsburgh saw him a certain way and played him that way. Vegas has put him out in different situations hes not used to and hes not a liability out there . That's shown me , at least , he can be a hybrid. Play smart, give 10  4th line minutes a game and be productive and not a liability . 

 

Its easy to say " punish the abuse by scoring on the powerplay ".. but when a Lucic hacks your star dman and then roughs up your goalie, and the only price he gets to pay for it is the courtesy of being able to clean the clock of your 4th line part timer.. that sends a bad message.

The soft teams are all gone .. 2 remain , and they both employ a hybrid or 2.

Do we want Johnny having to lay 2 handers on players when they rough him up ? as much as I'm glad he finally did it, that's not productive .

I'm all for the team playing the role as a whole.. but that player that makes idiots think twice before doing stupid things cant be measured .

Engelland had very few fights here..he didnt need to . Reaves had 6 all last year , none since Xmas, none in the playoffs . He has more than one dimension 

 

I firmly believe when the puck drops on the next season , we will have that player in our lineup .Maybe its not Reaves, but its a player like him. Just right now I cant think of a better Hybrid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All good points and more specific to Calgary we have no one beyond Ferland. Ferland can be a force for us but he shouldn't be doing all the enforcing. We also do not want to see Bennett and Tkachuk being dragged into fights regularly. Beyond these mentioned players we have no one. You mention Engelland and you are correct in that his very presence on the team provides others the confidence to go out there and play their game, he will handle any retaliation. Also and this may sound funny but both Engelland and Reaves are well spoken and can provide some timely verbage when team mates need to hear it.

[cross16]

A lot of small sample size bias going on here. Reaves was a healthy scratch for the first 2 series and Vegas has won more games with him out of the lineup then in it in the playoffs. If you feel there is a need for a player like that by all means have that opinion, but to make the case that Reaves has changed anything for Vegas or Vegas has changed Reaves is reaching a fair bit.

[phoenix66]

9 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

All good points and more specific to Calgary we have no one beyond Ferland. Ferland can be a force for us but he shouldn't be doing all the enforcing. We also do not want to see Bennett and Tkachuk being dragged into fights regularly. Beyond these mentioned players we have no one. You mention Engelland and you are correct in that his very presence on the team provides others the confidence to go out there and play their game, he will handle any retaliation. Also and this may sound funny but both Engelland and Reaves are well spoken and can provide some timely verbage when team mates need to hear it.

I should also add, Reaves is not in the lineup by default. There is a 20 goal $5M player sitting in their pressbox in Tatar.  Gallant obviously knows he needs him in his lineup for this .