So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

This is not Gio losing a step offensively but rather the GG system holding him back.

Clearly BH got more out of our D than GG is capable of.

 

I don't know that it proves GG is unable to get Gio going.  Maybe all it proves is that Hammy gets all the offense and Gio has to back him up.  

Odd that Gio +22 last year with less points than his last good offensive year where he was -5.  Maybe playing with Brodie allow Gio to play more on offense.

 

Just don't know either way.  Could be slowing down.  Could be used too defensively.  Could be not playing with Brodie.

  

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't know that it proves GG is unable to get Gio going.  Maybe all it proves is that Hammy gets all the offense and Gio has to back him up.  

Odd that Gio +22 last year with less points than his last good offensive year where he was -5.  Maybe playing with Brodie allow Gio to play more on offense.

 

Just don't know either way.  Could be slowing down.  Could be used too defensively.  Could be not playing with Brodie.

  

You think Giordano is having a bad season ?

[cccsberg]

I won't insult anyone by saying we are out of it, because technically we aren't.  However we're fading fast and I think for all intents and purposes it is over.  We are a minimum of 4 pts back of the closest playoff spot and have played more games than every other team in the Western Conference.   It was always going to be tight, and recent key injuries pushed us down and out at just the wrong time.  Not that this is an excuse, others have had major injuries too....but, Its over.....

 

I think we'll finish with around 88-90 points and probably about pick 10-15 when the draft rolls around.  First and foremost this team needs new coaching and perhaps even upper management, though I'd probably keep BT on for one more try.  Not sure what is out there for coaching, but I think Bylsma might be a good pick up, with experience and success.  Any thoughts.?

 

As for players, changes definitely need to be made, and I'd clear out almost all the 30+ yr vets and go from there.   I might even be persuaded to take a step back and trade both Gio and Smith if you can get major young-ish players back in return.  They both are still great but in another year, or two will be spent... I definitely would be open to major trades like TJ Brodie and Stone, others but I'd like to get the coaching/direction settled first.... 

[Heartbreaker]

3 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I think we'll finish with around 88-90 points and probably about pick 10-15 when the draft rolls around. 

 

Sadly, it's the Islanders that will pick 10-15, and the way our season is going, they'll probably "win the lottery". That's one of the reasons that this season has been so frustrating. When the sun sets in early April, we still have to wait until the end of June before we can put this all behind us. 

 

Love. 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I won't insult anyone by saying we are out of it, because technically we aren't.  However we're fading fast and I think for all intents and purposes it is over.  We are a minimum of 4 pts back of the closest playoff spot and have played more games than every other team in the Western Conference.   It was always going to be tight, and recent key injuries pushed us down and out at just the wrong time.  Not that this is an excuse, others have had major injuries too....but, Its over.....

 

I think we'll finish with around 88-90 points and probably about pick 10-15 when the draft rolls around.  First and foremost this team needs new coaching and perhaps even upper management, though I'd probably keep BT on for one more try.  Not sure what is out there for coaching, but I think Bylsma might be a good pick up, with experience and success.  Any thoughts.?

 

As for players, changes definitely need to be made, and I'd clear out almost all the 30+ yr vets and go from there.   I might even be persuaded to take a step back and trade both Gio and Smith if you can get major young-ish players back in return.  They both are still great but in another year, or two will be spent... I definitely would be open to major trades like TJ Brodie and Stone, others but I'd like to get the coaching/direction settled first.... 

 

I would start with Gio and Brodie.  One will get you a good haul, while the other gets rid of a problem.  WOuld like to start with the coach and see if he could bring Bridie back from the dead.  Either way, one or both has to go.

[cccsberg]

7 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Sadly, it's the Islanders that will pick 10-15, and the way our season is going, they'll probably "win the lottery". That's one of the reasons that this season has been so frustrating. When the sun sets in early April, we still have to wait until the end of June before we can put this all behind us. 

 

Love. 

Yeah, I was thinking of the 2nd round, wait, no I mean the 3rd round.... hmmm, is it actually the 4th round?

[cccsberg]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would start with Gio and Brodie.  One will get you a good haul, while the other gets rid of a problem.  WOuld like to start with the coach and see if he could bring Bridie back from the dead.  Either way, one or both has to go.

I agree we might be at that point, but if BT survives and hires another coach, he likely will want to give it another shot so those two moving might be problematic.

 

Just had a terrible thought.  What if we miss the playoffs and in the season review GG survives for another year?  I mean, Corsi has gone WAY UP, and ill-timed injuries could provide cover(excuses) for the poor finish?  I would hate to see it... but think it could be possible.

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

I agree we might be at that point, but if BT survives and hires another coach, he likely will want to give it another shot so those two moving might be problematic.

 

Just had a terrible thought.  What if we miss the playoffs and in the season review GG survives for another year?  I mean, Corsi has gone WAY UP, and ill-timed injuries could provide cover(excuses) for the poor finish?  I would hate to see it... but think it could be possible.

 

 

I suppose that with a complete overhaul of the team, we might do okay or really good with Gully.

That means having 4 lines to roll.  Having a good 2nd pair LD.  Having a good 3rd pair RD.

The 3rd and 4th lines are a waste of minutes most nights.  Not enough talent on each.  

 

You either blow up 1/2 the roster or can the coaches.  As WW would say, no half measures.

[MAC331]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I suppose that with a complete overhaul of the team, we might do okay or really good with Gully.

That means having 4 lines to roll.  Having a good 2nd pair LD.  Having a good 3rd pair RD.

The 3rd and 4th lines are a waste of minutes most nights.  Not enough talent on each.  

 

You either blow up 1/2 the roster or can the coaches.  As WW would say, no half measures.

Sounds to me that some are coming around to the conclusion this wasn't the team you thought it was. Anyone can simply blame coaching throw it in with all the other excuses. All levels are in this together and at the end of the day this team wasn't ready from an experience and maturity stand point to win.

[DHT]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would start with Gio and Brodie.  One will get you a good haul, while the other gets rid of a problem.  WOuld like to start with the coach and see if he could bring Bridie back from the dead.  Either way, one or both has to go.

Brodie has to go after this season. He is a reliable out there. His smooth skating ability mesmerize you thinking that he is a good defense man but in fact, he is not that good at all. I would try to find someone that is good with Hamonic. Gio I would keep because I can't imagine who would be good enough to cover for Hamilton. Gio was the reason Brodie looks so good when they were together. I can't imagine what would the pair look like if Hamilton paired with Brodie. Scary thought there! Maybe trading Brodie will bring us back a decent pick or decent forward.

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, DHT said:

Brodie has to go after this season. He is a reliable out there. His smooth skating ability mesmerize you thinking that he is a good defense man but in fact, he is not that good at all. I would try to find someone that is good with Hamonic. Gio I would keep because I can't imagine who would be good enough to cover for Hamilton. Gio was the reason Brodie looks so good when they were together. I can't imagine what would the pair look like if Hamilton paired with Brodie. Scary thought there! Maybe trading Brodie will bring us back a decent pick or decent forward.

 

Well, you hope Brodie can at least get you a 1st and a 2nd rounder... Maybe I am being generous with the 2nd on top of it? Maybe not enough?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, DHT said:

Brodie has to go after this season. He is a reliable out there. His smooth skating ability mesmerize you thinking that he is a good defense man but in fact, he is not that good at all. I would try to find someone that is good with Hamonic. Gio I would keep because I can't imagine who would be good enough to cover for Hamilton. Gio was the reason Brodie looks so good when they were together. I can't imagine what would the pair look like if Hamilton paired with Brodie. Scary thought there! Maybe trading Brodie will bring us back a decent pick or decent forward.

 

Read somewhere where Gio-Hamonic and Brodie-Hamilton were a good thing, fancy stats wise.  Remarkably strong defensively.

Supposedly, the Flames are big proponents of big data, so I can't imagine why they trot the same pairings, night after night to watch them implode at some point.

 

I for one think that Brodie gets you a better return than a simple 2nd rounder.  He's no worse than Larsson.  Actually can put up points.  Can play both sides, though he has a preference.  

[cross16]

Despite his fault Brodie is still till better than Hamonic and imo is having a better season this year than Hamonic did last year. If Hamonic can net you 3 top 60 picks then there is no doubt Brodie has at least that type of value. 

 

Heck, Erik Guebranson is terrible and apparently there were offers for a 2nd and a 4th at the deadline. 

[JA_Boomer]

What if next season our D core is:

 

Giordano-Hamilton

Valimaki-Hamonic

Brodie-Andersson

Kulak

 

and they are the best group in the league?

 

I'm not saying it will happen, I'm not saying we can or should bank on it happening, but is it out of the question?

[MAC331]

24 minutes ago, JA_Boomer said:

What if next season our D core is:

 

Giordano-Hamilton

Valimaki-Hamonic

Brodie-Andersson

Kulak

 

and they are the best group in the league?

 

I'm not saying it will happen, I'm not saying we can or should bank on it happening, but is it out of the question?

I don't think it is out of the question however the risk is whether Valimaki can stand up to NHL play in his 1st pro season.

[tmac70]

With the season pretty much done, what's the order of business for next season. This club needs a forensic audit internal and players.

 

1) Remove the coaching staff, minute the season is done so should they.

2) Develop a plan. Decide what type of team you want hire acquire accordingly

3) Trades start by trading some of the old guard for the new system and let the cleansing begin.

4) So who stays, there needs to be a cleansing.

 

You create a new atmosphere by removing the old and stale. Ever one talks leadership I see very little on this team. Leaders put a team on their backs and pull them into the fight, time to move some letters and move forward. 

Pre Hire

 Stajan, Gio, Backs, Fro, Ferland, Mony JG, Benny, Hamilton and Brodie .

Post Hire

 Brower, Hammer, Janko, Hathaway, MT, Lazar, Kulak, Stone, Smith, Rittich, Verstig

 

The highlighted are players I consider keeping. I am on the fence with the underlined and would consider moving them or not extending next season.

BT is on the fence for me as well has been average in my books, I am fine with him staying nexrt season but if he can not make some hockey trades to retool this club, I remove him for someone that can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, tmac70 said:

With the season pretty much done, what's the order of business for next season. This club needs a forensic audit internal and players.

 

1) Remove the coaching staff, minute the season is done so should they.

2) Develop a plan. Decide what type of team you want hire acquire accordingly

3) Trades start by trading some of the old guard for the new system and let the cleansing begin.

4) So who stays, there needs to be a cleansing.

 

You create a new atmosphere by removing the old and stale. Ever one talks leadership I see very little on this team. Leaders put a team on their backs and pull them into the fight, time to move some letters and move forward. 

Pre Hire

 Stajan, Gio, Backs, Fro, Ferland, Mony JG, Benny, Hamilton and Brodie .

Post Hire

 Brower, Hammer, Janko, Hathaway, MT, Lazar, Kulak, Stone, Smith, Rittich, Verstig

 

The highlighted are players I consider keeping. I am on the fence with the underlined and would consider moving them or not extending next season.

BT is on the fence for me as well has been average in my books, I am fine with him staying nexrt season but if he can not make some hockey trades to retool this club, I remove him for someone that can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why be on the fence with BT he assembled the whole scenario you believe needs cleansing ?

[JTech780]

https://www.tsn.ca/depth-issues-continue-to-hamper-flames-1.1018066

 

I usually don't put a lot of stock in what Travis Yost has to say, but I think he hit the nail on the head with this article.

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.tsn.ca/depth-issues-continue-to-hamper-flames-1.1018066

 

I usually don't put a lot of stock in what Travis Yost has to say, but I think he hit the nail on the head with this article.

Pretty much

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Why be on the fence with BT he assembled the whole scenario you believe needs cleansing ?

No inherited a good portion. If he gets removed surely would not hurt my feelings.

[ABC923]

17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.tsn.ca/depth-issues-continue-to-hamper-flames-1.1018066

 

I usually don't put a lot of stock in what Travis Yost has to say, but I think he hit the nail on the head with this article.

Yep, I think most of us on these boards would agree with that.

 

One thing he doesn't address though is the drop off in performance of the 3M line outside of Tkachuk.  Frolik is not likely to crack 30 points this year after putting up 44 points last season, while Backlund is unlikely to crack 15 goals after putting up 20+ in the last few seasons.  I'm not saying the performances are bad (although Frolik's play is a bit more concerning), but there were times last season when they carried this team when the top line struggled.  This season, if the top line isn't clicking you can pretty much write us off.

[MAC331]

21 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Yep, I think most of us on these boards would agree with that.

 

One thing he doesn't address though is the drop off in performance of the 3M line outside of Tkachuk.  Frolik is not likely to crack 30 points this year after putting up 44 points last season, while Backlund is unlikely to crack 15 goals after putting up 20+ in the last few seasons.  I'm not saying the performances are bad (although Frolik's play is a bit more concerning), but there were times last season when they carried this team when the top line struggled.  This season, if the top line isn't clicking you can pretty much write us off.

That whole 3M line took awhile to get going then Frolik got the broken jaw. Backlund had a lot $$$$ on his mind. LOL

Our reality is beyond the top 6 we were depending on a struggling Bennett, a rookie C in Jankowski, a has-been in Jagr, then two 4th line RWs filling in Brouwer and Hathaway.

Our 4th line has been a circus of players in and out so we got what we deserved from there.

Enough has been said about Brodie and Hamonic not clicking.

[travel_dude]

58 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Yep, I think most of us on these boards would agree with that.

 

One thing he doesn't address though is the drop off in performance of the 3M line outside of Tkachuk.  Frolik is not likely to crack 30 points this year after putting up 44 points last season, while Backlund is unlikely to crack 15 goals after putting up 20+ in the last few seasons.  I'm not saying the performances are bad (although Frolik's play is a bit more concerning), but there were times last season when they carried this team when the top line struggled.  This season, if the top line isn't clicking you can pretty much write us off.

 

Tkachuk is easily the best player on that line.  He's responsible for most of Backlund's goals.

Backlund is good, but not driving the play, sonce they are forced to use them defensively too much.

The unfortunate thing is the coach reluctant to split up the line to benefit the rest of the lines.

Frolik could easily have been used on Janko's wing.  

More options than just that.

 

The bottom 6 has been crap for most of the year.  Wrong players playing with the right players.  Too often.

 

[ABC923]

One thing I've noticed when looking at the stats is how effective Hathaway actually is at driving play.  Unfortunately he doesn't chip in much with offense, but his stats suggest pretty strong defensive play.  I wonder if putting him with Backlund in place of Tkatchuk would be a good idea.  That line becomes even better defensively, and it allows you to put Tkachuk on a more offensive line.  Maybe that's with SM and JG, or maybe Janko and Bennett, I don't know, but it might be worth a shot.  

 

Part of the problem with the team is the role of each line.  The top line is out there to score goals, the 3M line is generally out there to prevent them, but after that...Is our third line a grinding line? A defense line? Energy, scoring?  Meanwhile the fourth line is typically a garbage bin of players that don't fit on other lines, whether it be Brouwer, Stajan, Lazar, hathaway (sometimes), Stewart, Shore, Lomberg (when he's around), and pretty soon Versteeg may be there as well.  There's no consistency with that line, and I know it's only the fourth line, but is it any wonder we're never really sure what we're going to get from them?

[MAC331]

7 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

One thing I've noticed when looking at the stats is how effective Hathaway actually is at driving play.  Unfortunately he doesn't chip in much with offense, but his stats suggest pretty strong defensive play.  I wonder if putting him with Backlund in place of Tkatchuk would be a good idea.  That line becomes even better defensively, and it allows you to put Tkachuk on a more offensive line.  Maybe that's with SM and JG, or maybe Janko and Bennett, I don't know, but it might be worth a shot.  

 

Part of the problem with the team is the role of each line.  The top line is out there to score goals, the 3M line is generally out there to prevent them, but after that...Is our third line a grinding line? A defense line? Energy, scoring?  Meanwhile the fourth line is typically a garbage bin of players that don't fit on other lines, whether it be Brouwer, Stajan, Lazar, hathaway (sometimes), Stewart, Shore, Lomberg (when he's around), and pretty soon Versteeg may be there as well.  There's no consistency with that line, and I know it's only the fourth line, but is it any wonder we're never really sure what we're going to get from them?

I think the better idea is Bennett with Backlund and Frolik. Put Tkachuk with Jankowski to see if we can get more going from the 3rd line.