So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎24 at 6:33 PM, Flyerfan52 said:

Every team plays 82. As of last night only a few had played as many as 10. Is our schedule really harder than those others face?

This is hardly the tough part as nearer the end the better teams fight tooth & nail for every point. That's when we see who's contending or see a short playoff as a victory.

Knights & 'Nucks are now 2/3 in the Pacific. Really?

Not sure what or why you are going on about and don't call me Sunshine.

[Pyromancer]

Thought I would post this at the 10 game mark as an early look at the playoff / wildcard race.

Statistically weak considering the very limited data set so take the chart with the proverbial grain of NaCl.

No doubt, last place Arizona will end up with more than 8 pts & 1st place (Pt %) Vegas will have less than 144.

Will do again at the 20 game mark...

 

[420since1974]

Thanks Pyro!

[electrical_ace]

Why the f&$@ is Brouwer on the 1st PP??? Ridiculous 

[ABC923]

Well, I've seen enough.  This is a bad team.  Time to blow it up and start again.  We have a lot of good players, but not a good team.  As others have stated, we are a team with no identity.  We aren't a physical team.  We aren't a fast team or a skilled team.  We are supposedly a possession team, but it doesn't feel like it most nights.  Worst of all, we aren't a hard working team.  Time to pick a direction and go with it.

 

So how to do it?  First, get rid of GG.  He has a lot of skill on the back end, but has most of our defense playing like 7th defensmen.  We have a lot of puck movers back there, but they rarely get involved in the offense the way they did under Hartley.  Our defensive zone coverage is a mess, and our PK is terrible.  The fact we give up the first goal almost every game is atrocious.

 

Next, we purge some of our D-men for assets.  I doubt you get much for Gio, and I would hate to trade the only guy who plays with any consistency, but for the right price...

Brodie and Hamilton would net you some decent assets.  Either young players or draft picks.  Maybe someone like Marner, but I would settle for some high draft picks.  Trading both of those guys should net us a good prospect, a 1st, and a 2nd (maybe 2).  Hamonic doesn't have much value, but is on a decent contract, so keep him.  Stone is over paid, but if we put him higher up maybe he increases his value.

 

Forwards: First on the block should be Backlund.  A rebuilding team shouldn't hand out big contracts to players like Backlund.  Should get some draft picks for him.  Next we need to cut players like Stajan, Brouwer, Versteeg.  That can wait until season end.  Frolik is nearing the end of his contract, so we should move him too.  If you can get something of value for Bennett, maybe move him too.  If we want to go full rebuild, JG and Monahan have sweet contracts.  Each should get you a high prospect and a 1st rounder.  Think Duchene, but more (they are better players on long term, team friendly deals).

 

Goal:  We have nothing worth keeping overly, but we won't get much by trading them either.

 

Also can BT.  He built this train wreck.

[JustAFlamer]

34 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Well, I've seen enough.  This is a bad team.  Time to blow it up and start again.  We have a lot of good players, but not a good team.  As others have stated, we are a team with no identity.  We aren't a physical team.  We aren't a fast team or a skilled team.  We are supposedly a possession team, but it doesn't feel like it most nights.  Worst of all, we aren't a hard working team.  Time to pick a direction and go with it.

 

So how to do it?  First, get rid of GG.  He has a lot of skill on the back end, but has most of our defense playing like 7th defensmen.  We have a lot of puck movers back there, but they rarely get involved in the offense the way they did under Hartley.  Our defensive zone coverage is a mess, and our PK is terrible.  The fact we give up the first goal almost every game is atrocious.

 

Next, we purge some of our D-men for assets.  I doubt you get much for Gio, and I would hate to trade the only guy who plays with any consistency, but for the right price...

Brodie and Hamilton would net you some decent assets.  Either young players or draft picks.  Maybe someone like Marner, but I would settle for some high draft picks.  Trading both of those guys should net us a good prospect, a 1st, and a 2nd (maybe 2).  Hamonic doesn't have much value, but is on a decent contract, so keep him.  Stone is over paid, but if we put him higher up maybe he increases his value.

 

Forwards: First on the block should be Backlund.  A rebuilding team shouldn't hand out big contracts to players like Backlund.  Should get some draft picks for him.  Next we need to cut players like Stajan, Brouwer, Versteeg.  That can wait until season end.  Frolik is nearing the end of his contract, so we should move him too.  If you can get something of value for Bennett, maybe move him too.  If we want to go full rebuild, JG and Monahan have sweet contracts.  Each should get you a high prospect and a 1st rounder.  Think Duchene, but more (they are better players on long term, team friendly deals).

 

Goal:  We have nothing worth keeping overly, but we won't get much by trading them either.

 

Also can BT.  He built this train wreck.

I understand the rant, but i believe going overboard.

Since start of last season have not been fan of GG (gave him 1/4 season saw nothing that impressed me, adaptability is the biggest concern)

 

While a trade or 2 could/would shake things up.  I still believe the pieces are there to push far and that all any trade would be, is a shake up. 

The only time i find myself excited to watch this team is when they go off script and win in spite of the coaching and game plan

[cccsberg]

On 2017-12-04 at 10:19 PM, JustAFlamer said:

I understand the rant, but i believe going overboard.

Since start of last season have not been fan of GG (gave him 1/4 season saw nothing that impressed me, adaptability is the biggest concern)

 

While a trade or 2 could/would shake things up.  I still believe the pieces are there to push far and that all any trade would be, is a shake up. 

The only time i find myself excited to watch this team is when they go off script and win in spite of the coaching and game plan

 

On 2017-12-04 at 9:33 PM, ABC923 said:

Well, I've seen enough.  This is a bad team.  Time to blow it up and start again.  We have a lot of good players, but not a good team.  As others have stated, we are a team with no identity.  We aren't a physical team.  We aren't a fast team or a skilled team.  We are supposedly a possession team, but it doesn't feel like it most nights.  Worst of all, we aren't a hard working team.  Time to pick a direction and go with it.

 

So how to do it?  First, get rid of GG.  He has a lot of skill on the back end, but has most of our defense playing like 7th defensmen.  We have a lot of puck movers back there, but they rarely get involved in the offense the way they did under Hartley.  Our defensive zone coverage is a mess, and our PK is terrible.  The fact we give up the first goal almost every game is atrocious.

 

Next, we purge some of our D-men for assets.  I doubt you get much for Gio, and I would hate to trade the only guy who plays with any consistency, but for the right price...

Brodie and Hamilton would net you some decent assets.  Either young players or draft picks.  Maybe someone like Marner, but I would settle for some high draft picks.  Trading both of those guys should net us a good prospect, a 1st, and a 2nd (maybe 2).  Hamonic doesn't have much value, but is on a decent contract, so keep him.  Stone is over paid, but if we put him higher up maybe he increases his value.

 

Forwards: First on the block should be Backlund.  A rebuilding team shouldn't hand out big contracts to players like Backlund.  Should get some draft picks for him.  Next we need to cut players like Stajan, Brouwer, Versteeg.  That can wait until season end.  Frolik is nearing the end of his contract, so we should move him too.  If you can get something of value for Bennett, maybe move him too.  If we want to go full rebuild, JG and Monahan have sweet contracts.  Each should get you a high prospect and a 1st rounder.  Think Duchene, but more (they are better players on long term, team friendly deals).

 

Goal:  We have nothing worth keeping overly, but we won't get much by trading them either.

 

Also can BT.  He built this train wreck.

Its not time for a tear down, but changes are needed.  I would start with the coach and see what he can do.  Beyond that, some of the suggested trades might be in order.  Some of the 4th line guys need to go, and with the strength of our D prospects, there is potential for 1-2 trades there to bring in new talent & picks.  Beyond that a decision needs to be made on Backlund & Frolik but really I'd keep him for a couple years at least.  

 

Personally I'm not sure a pure speed team would work, unless you have the superstars to make it work, which we don't.  Gaudreau is great but he is easily shut down in playoff mode, and unless we establish another strong threat that'll continue.  I have hopes for Jankowski/Bennett but that is still developing.  With our current mix I would like to see a strong forechecking and counter-punching team, with more physicality.  But really, the team needs to be able to adapt to several styles game to game depending on the opponent.  Is that too much to ask?  We are not far off but the whole team needs to be more attentive to coverage details in the D Zone.  I'd also like to get younger and put a lot more faith in the prospects than aged vets.  Vets are fine but the core of the team needs to be young, fast and hungry, and giving incentive to them all is really important.  Like I've said elsewhere, probably half the Stockton team could play 4th line with no scoring and getting killed possession-wise nightly like our current guys that are wasting mega Cap space to do the same.....

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎12‎-‎06 at 7:17 AM, cccsberg said:

 

Its not time for a tear down, but changes are needed.  I would start with the coach and see what he can do.  Beyond that, some of the suggested trades might be in order.  Some of the 4th line guys need to go, and with the strength of our D prospects, there is potential for 1-2 trades there to bring in new talent & picks.  Beyond that a decision needs to be made on Backlund & Frolik but really I'd keep him for a couple years at least.  

 

Personally I'm not sure a pure speed team would work, unless you have the superstars to make it work, which we don't.  Gaudreau is great but he is easily shut down in playoff mode, and unless we establish another strong threat that'll continue.  I have hopes for Jankowski/Bennett but that is still developing.  With our current mix I would like to see a strong forechecking and counter-punching team, with more physicality.  But really, the team needs to be able to adapt to several styles game to game depending on the opponent.  Is that too much to ask?  We are not far off but the whole team needs to be more attentive to coverage details in the D Zone.  I'd also like to get younger and put a lot more faith in the prospects than aged vets.  Vets are fine but the core of the team needs to be young, fast and hungry, and giving incentive to them all is really important.  Like I've said elsewhere, probably half the Stockton team could play 4th line with no scoring and getting killed possession-wise nightly like our current guys that are wasting mega Cap space to do the same.....

Kind of lost track of this thread but would like to rekindle with a possible trade thought of getting Mark Stone from OTT. If OTT is going to off load some players Mark Stone is a good fit for our often discussed need for a top line RW. I too think BT should be considering to bring Backlund back so we can keep building this team the right way. A few situations have changed on out own team, primarily Ferland emerging but also getting Bennett and Jankowski into the right places, top 9. Here is what I could see if we were to get Stone this season and going forward.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Stone

Ferland, Backlund, Frolik

Bennett, Jankowski, Tkachuk

Mangiapane, Lazar, Hathaway

I traded away Brodie to get Stone so we would need immediate changes for LSD and opens the competition for next season.

Giordano, Hamilton

Kulak, Hamonic

Wotherspoon, Stone

GOALIES

Smith, Rittich

Hopefully we would get more scoring and be tighter on defense. Obvious players missing are Jagr and Brouwer so maybe BT can do something with these two.

[travel_dude]

I throw up an alternative, base on my counter proposal from the same thread (Backlund + Brodie for Brassard + Stone):

 

This year would remain largely unchanged, except for the impact of the trade:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Stone

Tkachuk-Brassard-Frolik

Bennett-Janko-Ferland

Jagr-Lazar-Brouwer

Ex. Stajan, Hathaway, Versteeg (LTIR)

 

Gio-Hamonic

Kulak-Hamilton

Stone-Andersson

Ex. Wotherspoon

 

Smith/Rittich

 

I haven't moved Tkachuk to the Bennett line because I actually think that Brassard's line would score more because we don't have to completely bury them in the D-zone.  Could always swap Tkachuk with Ferland if it works better that way.

 

Next year, we could see some major changes but I just wanted to leave the people filling the holes as blank.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Stone

Tkachuk-Brassard-Frolik

Bennett-Janko-Ferland

?-Lazar-?

Ex. ?, ?

 

Gio-Hamonic

Kulak-Hamilton

?-Andersson

Ex. Wotherspoon

 

I excluded Stone and Brouwer, since I think we may be shopping and/or buying out those players.  It leaves space for Valimaki if he's ready.  The 4th line is basically a blank slate.  Could use some combo of Poirier, Foo, Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Mangiapane, Hathaway... Or we could see Frolik moved out and a re-design of the Brassard line, with a prospect or using them on Bennett's line.

[MAC331]

44 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I throw up an alternative, base on my counter proposal from the same thread (Backlund + Brodie for Brassard + Stone):

 

This year would remain largely unchanged, except for the impact of the trade:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Stone

Tkachuk-Brassard-Frolik

Bennett-Janko-Ferland

Jagr-Lazar-Brouwer

Ex. Stajan, Hathaway, Versteeg (LTIR)

 

Gio-Hamonic

Kulak-Hamilton

Stone-Andersson

Ex. Wotherspoon

 

Smith/Rittich

 

I haven't moved Tkachuk to the Bennett line because I actually think that Brassard's line would score more because we don't have to completely bury them in the D-zone.  Could always swap Tkachuk with Ferland if it works better that way.

 

Next year, we could see some major changes but I just wanted to leave the people filling the holes as blank.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Stone

Tkachuk-Brassard-Frolik

Bennett-Janko-Ferland

?-Lazar-?

Ex. ?, ?

 

Gio-Hamonic

Kulak-Hamilton

?-Andersson

Ex. Wotherspoon

 

I excluded Stone and Brouwer, since I think we may be shopping and/or buying out those players.  It leaves space for Valimaki if he's ready.  The 4th line is basically a blank slate.  Could use some combo of Poirier, Foo, Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Mangiapane, Hathaway... Or we could see Frolik moved out and a re-design of the Brassard line, with a prospect or using them on Bennett's line.

Personally I would keep Backlund so as not to disrupt the team and we continue to build on our pluses. I much prefer Ferland as a LW and believe Tkachuk is the more versatile player to switch over to RW. We need to have a line that is awesome at keeping the opposition in check ad that still falls to Backlund and Frolik, adding Ferland gives them more physicality along with the scoring ability of 20 goals each. The line of Bennett, Jankowski and Tkachuk IMO is full of possibilities for our future.

[cccsberg]

I'm not sure why you are expecting for a "first line RW" but this season Ferland is definitely proving to be just that.  His only "failing" to date is that he's an easy target for dropping off the line when GG decides to elevate Brouwer or some other craziness, because....?

Just so we're clear, 95% of the people on here would like an elite first line RW, irrespective of Ferland.  If you don't get that, make your own thread and don't single me out.   My comments were clearly steering us back to the discussion of Bennett which is the topic of this thread.   Not Ferland, and not me.   

 

 

The above is an exchange between myself and jjgallow about Ferland/1st line RW.  Personally I'm wondering what all the commotion is about Ferland at this time, especially since he's having a breakout/career season on the top line with Monahan and Gaudreau, projecting to more than double his best output to date.  My question remains, what are you "95% of the people on here" expecting for a 1RW?  

 

Personally I believe Ferland is doing a great job, and although I'm always up for improving the team, I don't believe its a problem now on the Flames.  To me, there are very few, if any teams having stacked "elite" players in all three first line slots, much less with additional elite players elsewhere.  Let's take a look at reality across the league:

 

Team         1st line Forwards                            Elite?

ANA          Rackell-Getzlaff-Perry                     No-Yes-Yes          

ARI           Perlini-Stepan-Reider                      No-No-No

BOS         Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak        Yes-Yes-No

BUF         Pouliot-Eichel-Pominville                 No-Yes-No

CAL         Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland           Yes-Yes-No

CAR         Aho-Staal-Teravainen                      No-No-No

CHI          Saad-Toews-Debrincat                   No-Yes-No

COL         Landeskog-Mackinnon-Rantanen  No-Yes-No

CLB         Panarin-Dubois-Anderson              Yes-No-No

DAL         Benn-Faksa/Seguin-Pitlick             Yes-Yes-No

DET         Nyquist-Zetterberg-Abdelkader       No-Yes-No

EDM        Lucic-Mcdavid-Puljujarvi                 No-Yes-No

FLO         Huberdeau-Barkov-Bjukstad           No-Yes-No

LAK         Iafalo-Kopitar-Brown                       No-Yes-No

MIN         Zucker-Koivu-Coyle                        No-No-No

MON       Pacioretty-Danault-Byron               Yes-No-No

NAS        Fiala-Turris-Smith                           No-No-No

NJD        Hall-Hischier-Bratt                          Yes-Yes-No

NYI         Lee-Tavares-Bailey                          No-Yes-No

NYR        Kreider-Desharnais-Zuccarello       No-No-No

OTT        Ryan-Duchene-Stone                      No-Yes-Yes

PHI         Giroux-Couturier-Simmonds           Yes-No-Yes

PIT         Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary                 No-Yes-No

SJS        Karlsson-Thornton-Pavelski            No-Yes-Yes

STL        Sobotka-Stastny-Tarasenko            No-No-Yes

TBL        Namestnikov-Stamkos-Kucherov   No-Yes-Yes

TOR       Hyman-Matthews-Brown/Nylander  No-Yes-Yes

VCR      Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser                 No-Yes-Yes

VGK      Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault         No-No-Yes

WAS     Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson           Yes-Yes-No

WIN      Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler               No-Yes-Yes

 

That's my take on it, you have others?  Make your own picks.  Bottom line, ZERO teams have elite players across the board on the top line, putting Calgary right in the mix as an above average team in that regard.  With the Flames having a Top5 and a Top10? scorer in the first line you could easily make an argument we are Top5 as a team i.e. #1 lines.  Sure, if you can upgrade Ferland we'd be even better, but what would it cost and what's the impact on the rest of the line-up?  Down the road I'd think the easiest way to achieve that is to switch Ferland and Tkachuk, which might work out for both the Monahan and Backlund lines, and maximize Tkachuk's seeming better O-skills and putting Ferland into a bigger shut down role with Backlund.   That would likely decrease Backlund's offensive results but if the 3rd (Jankowski) line can continue to grow and produce it may not matter....

 

In any case, WHAT are you expecting for a Top line RW?  How would you achieve it?  Is it really necessary, considering what other teams are making do with?  Back to you JJ (silent 95%ers....)

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I'm not sure why you are expecting for a "first line RW" but this season Ferland is definitely proving to be just that.  His only "failing" to date is that he's an easy target for dropping off the line when GG decides to elevate Brouwer or some other craziness, because....?

Just so we're clear, 95% of the people on here would like an elite first line RW, irrespective of Ferland.  If you don't get that, make your own thread and don't single me out.   My comments were clearly steering us back to the discussion of Bennett which is the topic of this thread.   Not Ferland, and not me.   

 

 

The above is an exchange between myself and jjgallow about Ferland/1st line RW.  Personally I'm wondering what all the commotion is about Ferland at this time, especially since he's having a breakout/career season on the top line with Monahan and Gaudreau, projecting to more than double his best output to date.  My question remains, what are you "95% of the people on here" expecting for a 1RW?  

 

Personally I believe Ferland is doing a great job, and although I'm always up for improving the team, I don't believe its a problem now on the Flames.  To me, there are very few, if any teams having stacked "elite" players in all three first line slots, much less with additional elite players elsewhere.  Let's take a look at reality across the league:

 

Team         1st line Forwards                            Elite?

ANA          Rackell-Getzlaff-Perry                     No-Yes-Yes          

ARI           Perlini-Stepan-Reider                      No-No-No

BOS         Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak        Yes-Yes-No

BUF         Pouliot-Eichel-Pominville                 No-Yes-No

CAL         Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland           Yes-Yes-No

CAR         Aho-Staal-Teravainen                      No-No-No

CHI          Saad-Toews-Debrincat                   No-Yes-No

COL         Landeskog-Mackinnon-Rantanen  No-Yes-No

CLB         Panarin-Dubois-Anderson              Yes-No-No

DAL         Benn-Faksa/Seguin-Pitlick             Yes-Yes-No

DET         Nyquist-Zetterberg-Abdelkader       No-Yes-No

EDM        Lucic-Mcdavid-Puljujarvi                 No-Yes-No

FLO         Huberdeau-Barkov-Bjukstad           No-Yes-No

LAK         Iafalo-Kopitar-Brown                       No-Yes-No

MIN         Zucker-Koivu-Coyle                        No-No-No

MON       Pacioretty-Danault-Byron               Yes-No-No

NAS        Fiala-Turris-Smith                           No-No-No

NJD        Hall-Hischier-Bratt                          Yes-Yes-No

NYI         Lee-Tavares-Bailey                          No-Yes-No

NYR        Kreider-Desharnais-Zuccarello       No-No-No

OTT        Ryan-Duchene-Stone                      No-Yes-Yes

PHI         Giroux-Couturier-Simmonds           Yes-No-Yes

PIT         Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary                 No-Yes-No

SJS        Karlsson-Thornton-Pavelski            No-Yes-Yes

STL        Sobotka-Stastny-Tarasenko            No-No-Yes

TBL        Namestnikov-Stamkos-Kucherov   No-Yes-Yes

TOR       Hyman-Matthews-Brown/Nylander  No-Yes-Yes

VCR      Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser                 No-Yes-Yes

VGK      Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault         No-No-Yes

WAS     Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson           Yes-Yes-No

WIN      Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler               No-Yes-Yes

 

That's my take on it, you have others?  Make your own picks.  Bottom line, ZERO teams have elite players across the board on the top line, putting Calgary right in the mix as an above average team in that regard.  With the Flames having a Top5 and a Top10? scorer in the first line you could easily make an argument we are Top5 as a team i.e. #1 lines.  Sure, if you can upgrade Ferland we'd be even better, but what would it cost and what's the impact on the rest of the line-up?  Down the road I'd think the easiest way to achieve that is to switch Ferland and Tkachuk, which might work out for both the Monahan and Backlund lines, and maximize Tkachuk's seeming better O-skills and putting Ferland into a bigger shut down role with Backlund.   That would likely decrease Backlund's offensive results but if the 3rd (Jankowski) line can continue to grow and produce it may not matter....

 

In any case, WHAT are you expecting for a Top line RW?  How would you achieve it?  Is it really necessary, considering what other teams are making do with?  Back to you JJ (silent 95%ers....)

We bounce a lot of ideas around but in essence trades are opportunities and they don't always present themselves. You are right in that all teams have needs and don't always have the ideal situations for their teams. Everyone including the sport analysts are trying to drum up a story around any team's weak links or various contract rumors. If and it is an if OTT wants to change some things up with their team and their is a player that helps the Flames BT should be prepared to listen at least. Ferland has done a good job for us at RW, better yet he has built up some confidence in his own abilities. If BT could get us either Stone or Hoffman for that top RW position it allows GG to deploy Ferland to another position that make the team better again.

[cccsberg]

49 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

We bounce a lot of ideas around but in essence trades are opportunities and they don't always present themselves. You are right in that all teams have needs and don't always have the ideal situations for their teams. Everyone including the sport analysts are trying to drum up a story around any team's weak links or various contract rumors. If and it is an if OTT wants to change some things up with their team and their is a player that helps the Flames BT should be prepared to listen at least. Ferland has done a good job for us at RW, better yet he has built up some confidence in his own abilities. If BT could get us either Stone or Hoffman for that top RW position it allows GG to deploy Ferland to another position that make the team better again.

Yes I agree, especially Stone.  What we have to offer is from our D corps based on what we have in the pipeline, much like Anaheim has done over the past year.

[Heartbreaker]

I gotta tell you guys... I'm going to be really upset if this team doesn't make the playoffs. I realize there's a lot of hockey left to be played and all that, but that first round pick is really going to bug me if we don't get in. They can get swept in the first round again, and I'll be a lot less upset than if they just let the first go, and don't even make it. 

 

Love. 

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎12‎-‎13 at 10:36 AM, cccsberg said:

I'm not sure why you are expecting for a "first line RW" but this season Ferland is definitely proving to be just that.  His only "failing" to date is that he's an easy target for dropping off the line when GG decides to elevate Brouwer or some other craziness, because....?

Just so we're clear, 95% of the people on here would like an elite first line RW, irrespective of Ferland.  If you don't get that, make your own thread and don't single me out.   My comments were clearly steering us back to the discussion of Bennett which is the topic of this thread.   Not Ferland, and not me.   

 

 

The above is an exchange between myself and jjgallow about Ferland/1st line RW.  Personally I'm wondering what all the commotion is about Ferland at this time, especially since he's having a breakout/career season on the top line with Monahan and Gaudreau, projecting to more than double his best output to date.  My question remains, what are you "95% of the people on here" expecting for a 1RW?  

 

Personally I believe Ferland is doing a great job, and although I'm always up for improving the team, I don't believe its a problem now on the Flames.  To me, there are very few, if any teams having stacked "elite" players in all three first line slots, much less with additional elite players elsewhere.  Let's take a look at reality across the league:

 

Team         1st line Forwards                            Elite?

ANA          Rackell-Getzlaff-Perry                     No-Yes-Yes          

ARI           Perlini-Stepan-Reider                      No-No-No

BOS         Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak        Yes-Yes-No

BUF         Pouliot-Eichel-Pominville                 No-Yes-No

CAL         Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland           Yes-Yes-No

CAR         Aho-Staal-Teravainen                      No-No-No

CHI          Saad-Toews-Debrincat                   No-Yes-No

COL         Landeskog-Mackinnon-Rantanen  No-Yes-No

CLB         Panarin-Dubois-Anderson              Yes-No-No

DAL         Benn-Faksa/Seguin-Pitlick             Yes-Yes-No

DET         Nyquist-Zetterberg-Abdelkader       No-Yes-No

EDM        Lucic-Mcdavid-Puljujarvi                 No-Yes-No

FLO         Huberdeau-Barkov-Bjukstad           No-Yes-No

LAK         Iafalo-Kopitar-Brown                       No-Yes-No

MIN         Zucker-Koivu-Coyle                        No-No-No

MON       Pacioretty-Danault-Byron               Yes-No-No

NAS        Fiala-Turris-Smith                           No-No-No

NJD        Hall-Hischier-Bratt                          Yes-Yes-No

NYI         Lee-Tavares-Bailey                          No-Yes-No

NYR        Kreider-Desharnais-Zuccarello       No-No-No

OTT        Ryan-Duchene-Stone                      No-Yes-Yes

PHI         Giroux-Couturier-Simmonds           Yes-No-Yes

PIT         Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary                 No-Yes-No

SJS        Karlsson-Thornton-Pavelski            No-Yes-Yes

STL        Sobotka-Stastny-Tarasenko            No-No-Yes

TBL        Namestnikov-Stamkos-Kucherov   No-Yes-Yes

TOR       Hyman-Matthews-Brown/Nylander  No-Yes-Yes

VCR      Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser                 No-Yes-Yes

VGK      Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault         No-No-Yes

WAS     Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson           Yes-Yes-No

WIN      Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler               No-Yes-Yes

 

That's my take on it, you have others?  Make your own picks.  Bottom line, ZERO teams have elite players across the board on the top line, putting Calgary right in the mix as an above average team in that regard.  With the Flames having a Top5 and a Top10? scorer in the first line you could easily make an argument we are Top5 as a team i.e. #1 lines.  Sure, if you can upgrade Ferland we'd be even better, but what would it cost and what's the impact on the rest of the line-up?  Down the road I'd think the easiest way to achieve that is to switch Ferland and Tkachuk, which might work out for both the Monahan and Backlund lines, and maximize Tkachuk's seeming better O-skills and putting Ferland into a bigger shut down role with Backlund.   That would likely decrease Backlund's offensive results but if the 3rd (Jankowski) line can continue to grow and produce it may not matter....

 

In any case, WHAT are you expecting for a Top line RW?  How would you achieve it?  Is it really necessary, considering what other teams are making do with?  Back to you JJ (silent 95%ers....)

Just curious why you think Ferland would lessen Backlund's offensive contributions ? I see where Ferland helps the line defensively and if he brings what he is currently learning with JG and SM we could see offensive improvements. Tkachuk is not great defensively (which nobody is acknowledging) and needs to be put with a more creative line IMO.

[robrob74]

11 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

I gotta tell you guys... I'm going to be really upset if this team doesn't make the playoffs. I realize there's a lot of hockey left to be played and all that, but that first round pick is really going to bug me if we don't get in. They can get swept in the first round again, and I'll be a lot less upset than if they just let the first go, and don't even make it. 

 

Love. 

 

It actually sounds like a nightmare! Personally, I don’t know whether it is coaching or gm, but why bring in a Satoshi Nakamoto load of players in who don’t have a chance in hell to make the team in training camp that ends up taking away from team building and working on team play? 

 

We don’t need a thousand guys in camp. Work on systems, get the guys going and be ready. It’s Blockchaining December and they’re still working on the system; a team that about 85% or more were together last year playing the very system they’re trying to figure out now. 

 

Working our kinks are unacceptable at this time of year!

i don’t think we will make it.

 

Team scores and we can’t play D, and the team plays D, we can’t score. Although, we weren’t really lighting it up when we weren’t playing D, aside from Monahan’s line...

[MAC331]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

It actually sounds like a nightmare! Personally, I don’t know whether it is coaching or gm, but why bring in a Satoshi Nakamoto load of players in who don’t have a chance in hell to make the team in training camp that ends up taking away from team building and working on team play? 

 

We don’t need a thousand guys in camp. Work on systems, get the guys going and be ready. It’s Blockchaining December and they’re still working on the system; a team that about 85% or more were together last year playing the very system they’re trying to figure out now. 

 

Working our kinks are unacceptable at this time of year!

i don’t think we will make it.

 

Team scores and we can’t play D, and the team plays D, we can’t score. Although, we weren’t really lighting it up when we weren’t playing D, aside from Monahan’s line...

Yet we have a similar record to PIT and CHI with a lot of games to play. regardless of how they ran their camp this team is not a well oiled championship team this season. the only line that has remained the same is the 3M forward line and the pairing of Giordano and Hamilton. We now have two pieces that were being counted on in Jagr and Versteeg on the shelf. Where some parts are starting to gell others are not fully there yet. Hopefully some consistency settles in and we can string some wins together and add some separation from the pack.

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Yet we have a similar record to PIT and CHI with a lot of games to play. regardless of how they ran their camp this team is not a well oiled championship team this season. the only line that has remained the same is the 3M forward line and the pairing of Giordano and Hamilton. We now have two pieces that were being counted on in Jagr and Versteeg on the shelf. Where some parts are starting to gell others are not fully there yet. Hopefully some consistency settles in and we can string some wins together and add some separation from the pack.

 

I don’t think we should rely too much on Jagr. I hope we sign him as a coach for next year. It seems like that’s his role this year. 

 

We almost didn’t sign Versteeg... 

 

i dunno, we can’t use injuries as excuse. Other teams have far worse injuries than we do and are making due without. 

 

I didnt think the Versteeg injury would have been such a detriment to our PP.

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎12‎-‎04 at 9:33 PM, ABC923 said:

Well, I've seen enough.  This is a bad team.  Time to blow it up and start again.  We have a lot of good players, but not a good team.  As others have stated, we are a team with no identity.  We aren't a physical team.  We aren't a fast team or a skilled team.  We are supposedly a possession team, but it doesn't feel like it most nights.  Worst of all, we aren't a hard working team.  Time to pick a direction and go with it.

 

So how to do it?  First, get rid of GG.  He has a lot of skill on the back end, but has most of our defense playing like 7th defensmen.  We have a lot of puck movers back there, but they rarely get involved in the offense the way they did under Hartley.  Our defensive zone coverage is a mess, and our PK is terrible.  The fact we give up the first goal almost every game is atrocious.

 

Next, we purge some of our D-men for assets.  I doubt you get much for Gio, and I would hate to trade the only guy who plays with any consistency, but for the right price...

Brodie and Hamilton would net you some decent assets.  Either young players or draft picks.  Maybe someone like Marner, but I would settle for some high draft picks.  Trading both of those guys should net us a good prospect, a 1st, and a 2nd (maybe 2).  Hamonic doesn't have much value, but is on a decent contract, so keep him.  Stone is over paid, but if we put him higher up maybe he increases his value.

 

Forwards: First on the block should be Backlund.  A rebuilding team shouldn't hand out big contracts to players like Backlund.  Should get some draft picks for him.  Next we need to cut players like Stajan, Brouwer, Versteeg.  That can wait until season end.  Frolik is nearing the end of his contract, so we should move him too.  If you can get something of value for Bennett, maybe move him too.  If we want to go full rebuild, JG and Monahan have sweet contracts.  Each should get you a high prospect and a 1st rounder.  Think Duchene, but more (they are better players on long term, team friendly deals).

 

Goal:  We have nothing worth keeping overly, but we won't get much by trading them either.

 

Also can BT.  He built this train wreck.

I never understand why any fan wants to see a professional sports team stripped down to Junior type players and wait on a hope and prayer it creates a winner for them.
We have some very good parts on this team and yes some re-assessment can always help to address the perceived problems.

I place some of this identity situation squarely with BT. He wants the team to be a contender but yet it seems like they are still schooling the younger core with the likes of Brouwer, Versteeg and Jagr, 3 players we needed like a hole in the head. All they have done is create an unbalanced effort out on the ice.

I actually feel for GG in some ways because of all the interruptions in what he would like to accomplish with the team to execute the way they should be. I think he is as frustrated as we are with the inconsistency.

FROM THE NET OUT

Smith and Rittich (Good)

Defense pairings (Good but need to play better)

Forwards
Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland (Good)
Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik (Good but need to be better)

Bennett, Jankowski, ??????? (Evolving)

?????? Stajan/Lazar, Brouwer (Revolving)

It may be a tall order but IMO the players that need to go are Jagr, Versteeg, Stajan and Brouwer.

My fix

Bennett, Jankowski, Lazar

Lomberg, Hamilton, Hathaway

[tmac70]

24 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I never understand why any fan wants to see a professional sports team stripped down to Junior type players and wait on a hope and prayer it creates a winner for them.
We have some very good parts on this team and yes some re-assessment can always help to address the perceived problems.

I place some of this identity situation squarely with BT. He wants the team to be a contender but yet it seems like they are still schooling the younger core with the likes of Brouwer, Versteeg and Jagr, 3 players we needed like a hole in the head. All they have done is create an unbalanced effort out on the ice.

I actually feel for GG in some ways because of all the interruptions in what he would like to accomplish with the team to execute the way they should be. I think he is as frustrated as we are with the inconsistency.

FROM THE NET OUT

Smith and Rittich (Good)

Defense pairings (Good but need to play better)

Forwards
Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland (Good)
Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik (Good but need to be better)

Bennett, Jankowski, ??????? (Evolving)

?????? Stajan/Lazar, Brouwer (Revolving)

It may be a tall order but IMO the players that need to go are Jagr, Versteeg, Stajan and Brouwer.

My fix

Bennett, Jankowski, Lazar

Lomberg, Hamilton, Hathaway

I agree with parts of this but not all. Transparently Verstig was bothered by a hip issue, and our PP has been dog Satoshi Nakamoto since. You than want to bring in Lomberg who has yet to play in here and is not tearing the A up either. You promote Lazar who has also been a pile of dog Satoshi Nakamoto for the year and demote Hathaway who actually has play very well on that line filling in for Jagr. Brodie has been god awful our D are on at minimum 20% down on producing ane 20% up on turnovers. I am all for promoting ans since this club has turned in play soft bring up, Anderson and Mags they deserve the promotion before Lomberg

[MAC331]

47 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I agree with parts of this but not all. Transparently Verstig was bothered by a hip issue, and our PP has been dog Satoshi Nakamoto since. You than want to bring in Lomberg who has yet to play in here and is not tearing the A up either. You promote Lazar who has also been a pile of dog Satoshi Nakamoto for the year and demote Hathaway who actually has play very well on that line filling in for Jagr. Brodie has been god awful our D are on at minimum 20% down on producing ane 20% up on turnovers. I am all for promoting ans since this club has turned in play soft bring up, Anderson and Mags they deserve the promotion before Lomberg

Either way Versteeg is likely finished and yes we are missing his craftiness on the PP. I would like Lomberg for some added aggression along with Hathaway to stir up some distractions for the opposition. I could careless if he scored, let's get back to what a 4th line should be doing (which IMO leaves Mangiapane out) I don't think Lazar has played as you say other than it isn't good coming in and out of the line up. I would actually love to see what he could do with such an opportunity to play along side Bennett and Jankowski.

My only point about the defense as a group are a good bunch of players that need to play better collectively. Brodie and Hamonic have been better recently hopefully it continues.

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Either way Versteeg is likely finished and yes we are missing his craftiness on the PP. I would like Lomberg for some added aggression along with Hathaway to stir up some distractions for the opposition. I could careless if he scored, let's get back to what a 4th line should be doing (which IMO leaves Mangiapane out) I don't think Lazar has played as you say other than it isn't good coming in and out of the line up. I would actually love to see what he could do with such an opportunity to play along side Bennett and Jankowski.

My only point about the defense as a group are a good bunch of players that need to play better collectively. Brodie and Hamonic have been better recently hopefully it continues.

 

Lazar has played 23 games this season, so he's been in more than out.  He is singled out for reduced icetime by the coach in games.  When I watch him play, I am left wondering what he is.  Good player with bad luck.  Fast skater with little hockey sense.  Gritty player that can jamb in the odd goal.  I don't know.  He's played with just about every line but hasn't stuck.  Hathaway has less skill, but has probably earned the ice he sees.  IIRC, Lazar has played with Bennett and Janko.  Maybe it was too early, but the results were not there.  When Jagr comes back, it's likely that Lazar is bumped.  Stajan is better at faceoffs.  Brouwer will not miss a game.  Either Hathaway goes to the 4th line or Jagr does.  

 

Friedman talked about the Brodie/Hammer pair the other day, and said that the styles didn't match.  Hamonic plays a traditional shutdown/safe play style, while Brodie is high risk.   In that regards, I think that Kulak or Gio may be the better match.  When I watch Gio play these days, it looks like he's forcing plays, trying to generate offence without the footspeed.  His shots from the point almost always hit shins.  He tries to carry the puck without stickhandling it, skating it to a place where the obvious wrist shot will happen.  I would prefer he stick to shutdown.  

 

Without bringing any players up, maybe try this D combo for a game or two:

 

Gio-Hamonic

Kulak-Hamilton

Brodie-Stone

 

Each pair has a guy that can concentrate on defense.  Each pair has a guy that has a decent slapshot.  

 

 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Lazar has played 23 games this season, so he's been in more than out.  He is singled out for reduced icetime by the coach in games.  When I watch him play, I am left wondering what he is.  Good player with bad luck.  Fast skater with little hockey sense.  Gritty player that can jamb in the odd goal.  I don't know.  He's played with just about every line but hasn't stuck.  Hathaway has less skill, but has probably earned the ice he sees.  IIRC, Lazar has played with Bennett and Janko.  Maybe it was too early, but the results were not there.  When Jagr comes back, it's likely that Lazar is bumped.  Stajan is better at faceoffs.  Brouwer will not miss a game.  Either Hathaway goes to the 4th line or Jagr does.  

 

Friedman talked about the Brodie/Hammer pair the other day, and said that the styles didn't match.  Hamonic plays a traditional shutdown/safe play style, while Brodie is high risk.   In that regards, I think that Kulak or Gio may be the better match.  When I watch Gio play these days, it looks like he's forcing plays, trying to generate offence without the footspeed.  His shots from the point almost always hit shins.  He tries to carry the puck without stickhandling it, skating it to a place where the obvious wrist shot will happen.  I would prefer he stick to shutdown.  

 

Without bringing any players up, maybe try this D combo for a game or two:

 

Gio-Hamonic

Kulak-Hamilton

Brodie-Stone

 

Each pair has a guy that can concentrate on defense.  Each pair has a guy that has a decent slapshot.  

 

 

Lazar isn't a player that is going to get sorted out this season, that is all I have to say on him. If a coach isn't going to provide a consistent position for a player you are going to get inconsistent play. Small samples with no conclusions.

I totally disagree with Freidman on just about anything that comes out of his mouth. I prefer the different styles because they should compliment each other and I believe they are starting to do just that now. I think Giordano tries to over compensate and create while Hamilton picks his nose on the other side of the ice. Otherwise Giordano his having another one of his solid seasons.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Lazar isn't a player that is going to get sorted out this season, that is all I have to say on him. If a coach isn't going to provide a consistent position for a player you are going to get inconsistent play. Small samples with no conclusions.

I totally disagree with Freidman on just about anything that comes out of his mouth. I prefer the different styles because they should compliment each other and I believe they are starting to do just that now. I think Giordano tries to over compensate and create while Hamilton picks his nose on the other side of the ice. Otherwise Giordano his having another one of his solid seasons.

 

Ya, I agree with inconsistent results. Or perhaps a player ends up lacking results as seen with a few of our players.

[tmac70]

5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Either way Versteeg is likely finished and yes we are missing his craftiness on the PP. I would like Lomberg for some added aggression along with Hathaway to stir up some distractions for the opposition. I could careless if he scored, let's get back to what a 4th line should be doing (which IMO leaves Mangiapane out) I don't think Lazar has played as you say other than it isn't good coming in and out of the line up. I would actually love to see what he could do with such an opportunity to play along side Bennett and Jankowski.

My only point about the defense as a group are a good bunch of players that need to play better collectively. Brodie and Hamonic have been better recently hopefully it continues.

We don't play with aggression, we have not since Gully has been here. I am all for playing a gritter game but it isn't happening. Everyone seems to believe the NHL now stands for NO HIT LEAGUE. If we some what even slightly resembled the style you recommend I could agree hell I am even for it. We are a butter soft poorly coached team that is couple guys short of making a run, I still stand by that theory.