So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I prefer Ferland down the lineup. I think it accentuates his skills, which makes him more dangerous. For me, is 15 goals As a good aim.

 

I think Ferland would be best with Backlund and Frolik, could you imagine what they could do with the opposition looking out for the freight train. LOL

[robrob74]

31 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think Ferland would be best with Backlund and Frolik, could you imagine what they could do with the opposition looking out for the freight train. LOL

 

Id like that as well. 

But I also think he would be good on the third line.

[MAC331]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

Id like that as well. 

But I also think he would be good on the third line.

I think our 3rd line for now should be Tkachuk, Bennett and Lazar. We need to have another real threat for the opposition to defense.

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think our 3rd line for now should be Tkachuk, Bennett and Lazar. We need to have another real threat for the opposition to defense.

 

That makes sense as well. 

It will be an interesting year...

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I think our 3rd line for now should be Tkachuk, Bennett and Lazar. We need to have another real threat for the opposition to defense.

 

You have Tkachuk on 3rd line and Ferland on 2nd line, so who fills in the top RW spot?  I don't disagree, but just trying to make sense of it.  Jagr?  Foo?  Versteeg?  Brouwer?  

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

You have Tkachuk on 3rd line and Ferland on 2nd line, so who fills in the top RW spot?  I don't disagree, but just trying to make sense of it.  Jagr?  Foo?  Versteeg?  Brouwer?  

I guess I was going with Jagr joining us if we are going all out for the SC this season.

[tmac70]

8 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Average in what way ? stats ? Chiasson was not the right RW to play with them and no one else was much better. I don't believe Ferland will be the answer either. I will say this that I noticed Monahan carrying the puck into and through the zone more effectively in the last few months. Perhaps the coaches picked up on his need to expand his presence in order to free up Gaudreau more. Another threat equal in talent to Gaudreau is what's needed on that line IMO.

Right now I think the best RW for a Tkachuk/Bennett line is Lazar. He can skate with those two, is smart with the puck for both positioning and possession. Lazar isn't overly big but has good size to work the boards, good passer and shooter.

Maybe a year of Jagr on the top line is a way to go for 1 year.

I seen average through the year, not sure how you can judge them at a higher grade level. I was proactive in NOT putting Chiasson on the top line, but if memory serves me right you were. I love Ferland as a hockey player, he checks all boxes for me but he isn't a 1st liner, good 2nd liner amazing 3rd. Ferland just verified that opening the ice up for the others was and is beneficial.

 I think Tkachuk is another player that checks a lot of boxes for me. Is he beneficial with Bennett I say no of the rush, o zone yes.

 

Tkachuk Bennett JG, I can agree with Lazar I disagree. Lazar is a straight line player much like Bouma but with more offensive upside. Lazar is similar size to Ferland and play similar styles

 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I seen average through the year, not sure how you can judge them at a higher grade level. I was proactive in NOT putting Chiasson on the top line, but if memory serves me right you were. I love Ferland as a hockey player, he checks all boxes for me but he isn't a 1st liner, good 2nd liner amazing 3rd. Ferland just verified that opening the ice up for the others was and is beneficial.

 I think Tkachuk is another player that checks a lot of boxes for me. Is he beneficial with Bennett I say no of the rush, o zone yes.

 

Tkachuk Bennett JG, I can agree with Lazar I disagree. Lazar is a straight line player much like Bouma but with more offensive upside. Lazar is similar size to Ferland and play similar styles

 

I think Ferland will start the season as the 3rd RW.

For me it's a question whether I want him rutting into PP duty.

Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland.

That line would give us PP-PK options.

Let's not forget, Backs-Frolik have a lot of fun on the PK, Stajan-Ferland.

Tkachuk Bennett 2nd PP.

Makes sense to me.

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think Ferland will start the season as the 3rd RW.

For me it's a question whether I want him rutting into PP duty.

Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland.

That line would give us PP-PK options.

Let's not forget, Backs-Frolik have a lot of fun on the PK, Stajan-Ferland.

Tkachuk Bennett 2nd PP.

Makes sense to me.

Why put Ferland on his off wing if you don't have to ? I see a lot of benefits for a Ferland, Backlund, Frolik line. I think many are underscoring how motivated Lazar will be to make an impact being part of this team.

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I seen average through the year, not sure how you can judge them at a higher grade level. I was proactive in NOT putting Chiasson on the top line, but if memory serves me right you were. I love Ferland as a hockey player, he checks all boxes for me but he isn't a 1st liner, good 2nd liner amazing 3rd. Ferland just verified that opening the ice up for the others was and is beneficial.

 I think Tkachuk is another player that checks a lot of boxes for me. Is he beneficial with Bennett I say no of the rush, o zone yes.

 

Tkachuk Bennett JG, I can agree with Lazar I disagree. Lazar is a straight line player much like Bouma but with more offensive upside. Lazar is similar size to Ferland and play similar styles

 

I likely was for giving Chiasson first chance with that line however it became obvious he wasn't a good fit just because he had size. This IMO was some of the wrong thinking by management coming into 2016/17 with Chiasson and Brouwer. I agree with everything you have here regarding Ferland and would ideally like to see him with Backlund and Frolik.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are saying Tkachuk with Bennett will not be so good off the rush but good for when in the O zone. If so I agree also unless Tkachuk skating improves which it could. Another thought is that Bennett could stand to slow his game down and let plays develop with his wingers IMO. Again I think Lazar would be good with these two, he thinks the game better than Bouma plus he can be instrumental as a RHS/ faceoff help for that line. You don't need JG on that line if that is what you were saying.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Why put Ferland on his off wing if you don't have to ? I see a lot of benefits for a Ferland, Backlund, Frolik line. I think many are underscoring how motivated Lazar will be to make an impact being part of this team.

Tkachuk will be the focal point of 4-5 scrums/game, undoubtedly. Bennett isn't much easier. Having the wolf out there with them is a very good idea to me. It's not like Ferland hasn't been playing RW. Our RW isn't great anywhere outside of Frolik. Subtract Ferland would be akin to decimating it.

What I'd be looking for in a Tkachuk-Bennett pairing would be amping up the intensity consistently.

For that, I believe Ferland fits the requirement perfectly.

It's time to stop bouncing Ferland all over the lineup and give him a good home. It's also time to stop giving Bennett the leftovers and give him a chance to build a house.

Tkachuk is going to be a nuisance no matter where you put him, but he's also a pesky playmaker.

Ferland can finish, we've seen it, he has good hands. He just needs consistency, as in consistent linemates. Hard to be consistent bouncing around the roster, same with Bennett, which is more like the roster bounces around him.

It's time we start putting it altogether.

JG-Mony-Versteeg

Jankowski(sheltered like Tkachuk)-Backlund-Frolik

Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland

Klimchuk-Stajan-Hathaway

Brouwer

 

Did I misplace Brouwer? Maybe he can cover Versteeg's 5 game IR stints. I have huge doubts he can elevate past a hungry Hathaway, the kid is a 4th line agitator and aggressor. "One of those wiry guys" that are never fun to play against. Brouwer isn't better than any of the guys ahead of him for the role required, but I can damn near guarantee they put him with Bennett again, because contract $ is more important than putting your best foot forward. Just my opinion.

But there is a hump in the road currently that separates the good from the average, and we need to get over it.

 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

JG-Mony-Versteeg

Jankowski(sheltered like Tkachuk)-Backlund-Frolik

Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland

Klimchuk-Stajan-Hathaway

Brouwer

 

Perhaps it's time that we recognize Tkachuk for what he is; a top line talent.  If Ferland isn't the guy who gets the nod, then I would think the next best (or even better) option is Tkachuk.  Put Ferland on Bennett's LW and have players fight to be the RW; Foo or Lazar.  Hathaway is a bit of a tweener right now; good enough to play about 40 games, not enough to keep him in the lineup every night.  

 

So, I would counter with:

Johnny-Monahan-Tkachuk

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Ferland-Bennett-Foo/Lazar/Poirier

Stajan-Janko-??

 

Johnny and Tkachuk can each play RW from time to time or criss-cross on zone entries.  Versteeg and Frolik play on the side according to the way they shoot.  Ferland-Bennett is a pair that can elevate each other; one by hitting/takeaways, the other by sandpaper.  Any of the 3 listed would work, but for different reasons.  Foo for his speed and playmaking.  Poirier for his speed and snipe.  Lazar for his boardwork and fill-in at center.  Stajan is moved to the wing to let Janko take the majority of faceoffs.  The RW could be one of the guys that didn't make the 3rd line RW or Brouwer.  Right now, Brouwer belongs on the 4th line.  Stajan and Janko allow it to be a more defensively responsible line.   

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Tkachuk will be the focal point of 4-5 scrums/game, undoubtedly. Bennett isn't much easier. Having the wolf out there with them is a very good idea to me. It's not like Ferland hasn't been playing RW. Our RW isn't great anywhere outside of Frolik. Subtract Ferland would be akin to decimating it.

What I'd be looking for in a Tkachuk-Bennett pairing would be amping up the intensity consistently.

For that, I believe Ferland fits the requirement perfectly.

It's time to stop bouncing Ferland all over the lineup and give him a good home. It's also time to stop giving Bennett the leftovers and give him a chance to build a house.

Tkachuk is going to be a nuisance no matter where you put him, but he's also a pesky playmaker.

Ferland can finish, we've seen it, he has good hands. He just needs consistency, as in consistent linemates. Hard to be consistent bouncing around the roster, same with Bennett, which is more like the roster bounces around him.

It's time we start putting it altogether.

JG-Mony-Versteeg

Jankowski(sheltered like Tkachuk)-Backlund-Frolik

Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland

Klimchuk-Stajan-Hathaway

Brouwer

 

Did I misplace Brouwer? Maybe he can cover Versteeg's 5 game IR stints. I have huge doubts he can elevate past a hungry Hathaway, the kid is a 4th line agitator and aggressor. "One of those wiry guys" that are never fun to play against. Brouwer isn't better than any of the guys ahead of him for the role required, but I can damn near guarantee they put him with Bennett again, because contract $ is more important than putting your best foot forward. Just my opinion.

But there is a hump in the road currently that separates the good from the average, and we need to get over it.

 

No thanks for me with this thinking. I think Lazar has a maturity factor that will help keep Tkachuk and Bennett somewhat grounded. The last thing we want is for that line having players heading to the box for stupidity. I hope you are wrong about Brouwer being with Bennett, as obvious as it was not right with us it also had to be obvious to the coaches. Also Ferland with Backlund and Frolik will help his game mature but he would add a checking element to those two. We need Ferly running a few of the opposition over every now and then in a game.

[MAC331]

39 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Perhaps it's time that we recognize Tkachuk for what he is; a top line talent.  If Ferland isn't the guy who gets the nod, then I would think the next best (or even better) option is Tkachuk.  Put Ferland on Bennett's LW and have players fight to be the RW; Foo or Lazar.  Hathaway is a bit of a tweener right now; good enough to play about 40 games, not enough to keep him in the lineup every night.  

 

So, I would counter with:

Johnny-Monahan-Tkachuk

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Ferland-Bennett-Foo/Lazar/Poirier

Stajan-Janko-??

 

Johnny and Tkachuk can each play RW from time to time or criss-cross on zone entries.  Versteeg and Frolik play on the side according to the way they shoot.  Ferland-Bennett is a pair that can elevate each other; one by hitting/takeaways, the other by sandpaper.  Any of the 3 listed would work, but for different reasons.  Foo for his speed and playmaking.  Poirier for his speed and snipe.  Lazar for his boardwork and fill-in at center.  Stajan is moved to the wing to let Janko take the majority of faceoffs.  The RW could be one of the guys that didn't make the 3rd line RW or Brouwer.  Right now, Brouwer belongs on the 4th line.  Stajan and Janko allow it to be a more defensively responsible line.   

This looks like a dogs breakfast, highly unlikely line combos.

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

This looks like a dogs breakfast, highly unlikely line combos.

Funny how you say that when you were pushing for Tkachuk on the top line.  Every line has two players that played together at some point last year.  Johnny-Mony, Frolik-Backlund, Ferland-Bennett, Stajan-Brouwer.  There's only so many ways to arrange the deck chairs.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Funny how you say that when you were pushing for Tkachuk on the top line.  Every line has two players that played together at some point last year.  Johnny-Mony, Frolik-Backlund, Ferland-Bennett, Stajan-Brouwer.  There's only so many ways to arrange the deck chairs.

In hindsight I don't think he is ready for that yet and I think if would be better placed with Bennett remaining on LW. I think we have tried all the deck chairs this offseason, maybe we should all refrain to see if anymore chairs are added.

[Flyerfan52]

The title of this thread cries out for the answer John Lennon gave the others when asked the same question.

His reply "To the topper most of the popper most boys".

[AlbertaBoy12]

16 hours ago, MAC331 said:

In hindsight I don't think he is ready for that yet and I think if would be better placed with Bennett remaining on LW. I think we have tried all the deck chairs this offseason, maybe we should all refrain to see if anymore chairs are added.

I would agree with this people keep throwing out deck chair combinations like its HGTV.

 

Not that I have a problem with HGTV, but I mean the flames have basically stated what their deck chair combination will be at the start of training camp I really doubt we see much deviation from that. I wouldnt be surprised to see them roll with those combinations into the season as it allows for some chemistry to grow and more team work on systems in camp, instead of players farting around trying to work together. 

 

The only major change I see is tkachuk moving to bennetts line(if it happens) and maybe a rookie making the team. 

[MAC331]

51 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I would agree with this people keep throwing out deck chair combinations like its HGTV.

 

Not that I have a problem with HGTV, but I mean the flames have basically stated what their deck chair combination will be at the start of training camp I really doubt we see much deviation from that. I wouldnt be surprised to see them roll with those combinations into the season as it allows for some chemistry to grow and more team work on systems in camp, instead of players farting around trying to work together. 

 

The only major change I see is tkachuk moving to bennetts line(if it happens) and maybe a rookie making the team. 

Yes unless someone like Jagr is added and then everything changes IMO.

[AlbertaBoy12]

16 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Yes unless someone like Jagr is added and then everything changes IMO.

Its possible I just dont see the room for Jagr, as we would be putting ourselves so close to the cap. If Sam Bennett signs for 3, that leaves us 4 million in cap space, so unless Jagr takes a 1 million dollar deal, it doesnt give us much room to add. Although on the other side of it, if we add Jagr, its very unlikely that we need to add come TDL, so I guess it depends what side of the coin you are on with that one.

 

In terms of the player, I dont see Jagr being a fit for the 1st line, and he doesnt fit on Backlunds line. The 1st line could be helped with his puck possession, I just dont think hes fast enough among other things anymore to be a huge help on the 1st line. The only spot I see him fitting is the 3rd line next to Bennett which would honestly be ok for the right price, which might mean we could leave Ferland on the top line. I would go for this combination if we signed Jagr

 

Mony-Johnny-Ferland

Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik

Versteeg-Bennett-Jagr

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

 

Thats a pretty balanced top 9, the only problem being I dont see a spot for brouwer anymore in this case.

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I would agree with this people keep throwing out deck chair combinations like its HGTV.

 

Not that I have a problem with HGTV, but I mean the flames have basically stated what their deck chair combination will be at the start of training camp I really doubt we see much deviation from that. I wouldnt be surprised to see them roll with those combinations into the season as it allows for some chemistry to grow and more team work on systems in camp, instead of players farting around trying to work together. 

 

The only major change I see is tkachuk moving to bennetts line(if it happens) and maybe a rookie making the team. 

 

You ignore the obvious.  A GM says that Ferland will start camp on the top line or has commented on how lines or players played.  If you think there is no room for deviation going into the season, then the coach should immediately be fired.  It's probably safe to say that the defense is set, except for the 6 and 7.  It's probably safe to assume that JH-Mony and Backs-Frolik are set.  Beyond that, not so much.

 

No, I don't want to spend the entire pre-season trying out prospects not likely to make the team.  But pre-season is the only time when you can experiment without losing a point.  Experiment with different line combination to see if there is something there.  Try out the higher rated prospects in a few situations.  Janko, Kulak and Foo have decent shots at making the team based on who is currently on the team.  I'm including Foo because he has a strong work ethic and some skills.  Don't really know how much he has progressed from last year's camp.      

[AlbertaBoy12]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

You ignore the obvious.  A GM says that Ferland will start camp on the top line or has commented on how lines or players played.  If you think there is no room for deviation going into the season, then the coach should immediately be fired.  It's probably safe to say that the defense is set, except for the 6 and 7.  It's probably safe to assume that JH-Mony and Backs-Frolik are set.  Beyond that, not so much.

Im not saying theres no room for deviation, but im saying it wouldnt surprise me to see no deviation. 

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Im not saying theres no room for deviation, but im saying it wouldnt surprise me to see no deviation. 

 

I get that.  But, I can't say with any likelyhood what the set lines are.  Conventional wisdom has Tkachuk playing with Backlund again.  BT has talked about Ferland starting camp on the top RW.  If we look at the lines that finished the season and playoffs, Brouwer is on the 4th line, Bouma and Chaisson are gone.

[MAC331]

27 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Its possible I just dont see the room for Jagr, as we would be putting ourselves so close to the cap. If Sam Bennett signs for 3, that leaves us 4 million in cap space, so unless Jagr takes a 1 million dollar deal, it doesnt give us much room to add. Although on the other side of it, if we add Jagr, its very unlikely that we need to add come TDL, so I guess it depends what side of the coin you are on with that one.

 

In terms of the player, I dont see Jagr being a fit for the 1st line, and he doesnt fit on Backlunds line. The 1st line could be helped with his puck possession, I just dont think hes fast enough among other things anymore to be a huge help on the 1st line. The only spot I see him fitting is the 3rd line next to Bennett which would honestly be ok for the right price, which might mean we could leave Ferland on the top line. I would go for this combination if we signed Jagr

 

Mony-Johnny-Ferland

Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik

Versteeg-Bennett-Jagr

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

 

Thats a pretty balanced top 9, the only problem being I dont see a spot for brouwer anymore in this case.

 

 

Gawd I think you are dead wrong about him fitting on the 1st line, otherwise don't get him.

I think a line of Ferland, Backlund and Frolik will be better than having Tkachuk there again.

Tkachuk will need to expand his talent if this team is to improve and he won't do that working with Backlund and Frolik shutting down the opposition.

If Jagr is added I don't see a rookie making this roster initially and Stajan will remain a C of the 4th line.

Here is how Brouwer fits.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Jagr

Ferland, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar

Versteeg, Stajan, Brouwer

Hamilton, Hathaway and we likely see Gadzic the odd time

[robrob74]

53 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Gawd I think you are dead wrong about him fitting on the 1st line, otherwise don't get him.

I think a line of Ferland, Backlund and Frolik will be better than having Tkachuk there again.

Tkachuk will need to expand his talent if this team is to improve and he won't do that working with Backlund and Frolik shutting down the opposition.

If Jagr is added I don't see a rookie making this roster initially and Stajan will remain a C of the 4th line.

Here is how Brouwer fits.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Jagr

Ferland, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar

Versteeg, Stajan, Brouwer

Hamilton, Hathaway and we likely see Gadzic the odd time

 

 

I don't know! I don't have a problem with Tkachuk playing another year on the Backlund line. He will continue developing and I think it will still help his offensive game if he stays with them. 

 

Not saying he should...

 

if they do keep him there, next year is the year to set him free. 

 

But I do agree, they need to find a balance through the lineup.