So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[phoenix66]

If it weren't for the definite X factors that say it can and should never happen , ironically a year of Iggy would have positive effects.

Mentor Ferland into how to be a power forward and still turn on the offense when needed, Leadership, and the prototype winger for the Johnny and Mony line.

You know he'd be motivated to push one last time.

 

but unfortunately , you run the risk of the Country Club attitude creeping back in .. and also whether he wanted it or not, it would put all the focus back on him again .

From a pure hockey player standpoint though, hes just what the doctor ordered 

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I was wondering the same thing, especially knowing he'd be fine with short term. The bonus in him I believe is his attitude and everywhere he goes tends to represent a boost in the quality of the team.

The biggest thing for me, we can't expect to improve by leaps and bounds next year, it's a nice dream, but Cap is a harsh reality.

I'd be happy with just taking another step.

Would Williams want to come here? He has no ties at all to Calgary that I'm aware of, so I kind of doubt it.

I wouldn't have a problem with that at all, what he now lacks in speed he makes up in smarts, and I believe we need that too.

SOMEBODY has to keep us level after a bad goal! We do need more quality leadership, imho.

I think we have plenty of Leadership for now and more so need players like Monahan to step up for leadership roles. I would more prefer to see us keep on a young track, if obtaining players make sure they can help build the team.

Honestly I like this idea floating of Brodie for Toffoli RW. Top RW players are hard to find and even harder to obtain. Defensemen for the LS not so much and LA need to start getting their financial ship corrected.

[tmac70]

18 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think we have plenty of Leadership for now and more so need players like Monahan to step up for leadership roles. I would more prefer to see us keep on a young track, if obtaining players make sure they can help build the team.

Honestly I like this idea floating of Brodie for Toffoli RW. Top RW players are hard to find and even harder to obtain. Defensemen for the LS not so much and LA need to start getting their financial ship corrected.

I like Toffoli but that trade is heavy weighted for LA, I would listen but you need to add for me to actually bite. I like Oshie on a short term 3 year deal. Both Toffolli and Oshie fit more in line with a line of:

 

Ferland Bennett Oshie

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎05‎-‎13 at 8:35 AM, tmac70 said:

I like Toffoli but that trade is heavy weighted for LA, I would listen but you need to add for me to actually bite. I like Oshie on a short term 3 year deal. Both Toffolli and Oshie fit more in line with a line of:

 

Ferland Bennett Oshie

I disagree

OK I slept on this and retract any ideas of moving Brodie. I think we need him as a key piece for us now and future. Peace

[MAC331]

By the looks and sounds of things unless we are trading for a player we are prepared to protect from this ED we will be drafting with our #1 and waiting for the ED to get over.

[travel_dude]

On 5/13/2017 at 8:39 AM, MAC331 said:

I disagree

OK I slept on this and retract any ideas of moving Brodie. I think we need him as a key piece for us now and future. Peace

 

How's about Backlund for Toffoli?

(stirs pot)

 

Top line winger (capable) for top 6 center.  Good 'ole hockey trade.

[MAC331]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

How's about Backlund for Toffoli?

(stirs pot)

 

Top line winger (capable) for top 6 center.  Good 'ole hockey trade.

I would do it but I don't think LA would. Wasn't Toffoli and Monahan team mates in Junior ? Maybe there is something we could do to pick up the rest of Mike Richard's tab there.

[cross16]

32 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I would do it but I don't think LA would. Wasn't Toffoli and Monahan team mates in Junior ? Maybe there is something we could do to pick up the rest of Mike Richard's tab there.

 

They were indeed. I agree, Flames would have to add likely and allow LA to work out an extension first. Trading Toffoli as an RFA for 1 year of Backlund before UFA isn't a very good deal for LA. Might be able to get a basis of a trade but I do think Flames would have to add something just due to Tofolli's control. 

 

good thought on the Richards but i'm not sure the league would allow it. Richards contract is done and i'm pretty sure, but please someone correct me if i'm wrong, that the NHL still forbids $ to be moved in trades, has to be a player contract. but because of the sweatheart deal the Kings got, Richards is only counting 1.5 against their cap anyway.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

They were indeed. I agree, Flames would have to add likely and allow LA to work out an extension first. Trading Toffoli as an RFA for 1 year of Backlund before UFA isn't a very good deal for LA. Might be able to get a basis of a trade but I do think Flames would have to add something just due to Tofolli's control. 

 

good thought on the Richards but i'm not sure the league would allow it. Richards contract is done and i'm pretty sure, but please someone correct me if i'm wrong, that the NHL still forbids $ to be moved in trades, has to be a player contract. but because of the sweatheart deal the Kings got, Richards is only counting 1.5 against their cap anyway.  

 

How about something "centered" around Carter and Toffoli for Backlund++.  They need to get younger and faster.  Taking Carter off their hands clears a bunch of cap for they to do some reloading this summer.  They will probably expose Gabby and Brown, but aren't going to get out of those ones so easy.

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

How about something "centered" around Carter and Toffoli for Backlund++.  They need to get younger and faster.  Taking Carter off their hands clears a bunch of cap for they to do some reloading this summer.  They will probably expose Gabby and Brown, but aren't going to get out of those ones so easy.

 

The ++ would be unreal. Those are 2 very good players your asking for. Can't see it making sense for either side. Carters contact isn't bad enough that it erases trade value. 

[robrob74]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

How about something "centered" around Carter and Toffoli for Backlund++.  They need to get younger and faster.  Taking Carter off their hands clears a bunch of cap for they to do some reloading this summer.  They will probably expose Gabby and Brown, but aren't going to get out of those ones so easy.

 

 

I would see it closer to Toffoli and Gaborik for Backlund, if they're trying to get out of contracts. 

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

How about something "centered" around Carter and Toffoli for Backlund++.  They need to get younger and faster.  Taking Carter off their hands clears a bunch of cap for they to do some reloading this summer.  They will probably expose Gabby and Brown, but aren't going to get out of those ones so easy.

As X says, the +++s would have to be great.

Carter @ 5.27 is still above Backlund even if he signs for that $/term.

Toffili would cost us something we won't want to give up (Tkachuk or @ least Bennett+).

Let's face that upgrades cost. I want upgrades @ forward but hope BT concentrates on the fact we have 0 goalies, then adds D & lastly adds to the forwards.

 

I'm wondering if a different approach from management  that insists every player be defensively responsible wouldn't help.

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

3 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'm wondering if a different approach from management  that insists every player be defensively responsible wouldn't help.

 

I posted much the same in the other thread about trades, I think its much more important that the flames start to stress everyone focusing more on D zone coverage and getting the puck out with smart plays. The senators and predators dont exactly have shut down centers, but what they do have is either good puck movers or good team defense. If the team plays well in their own zone and you can get the puck out with smart plays, you can live without a shut down center. I think backlund is a great player, but I think the flames could move on easily without him. 

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I posted much the same in the other thread about trades, I think its much more important that the flames start to stress everyone focusing more on D zone coverage and getting the puck out with smart plays. The senators and predators dont exactly have shut down centers, but what they do have is either good puck movers or good team defense. If the team plays well in their own zone and you can get the puck out with smart plays, you can live without a shut down center. I think backlund is a great player, but I think the flames could move on easily without him. 

From all I have heard GG is exactly this type of coach and wants all his players to do their part defensively. Also I think this is the part of our game we saw improve the most coming down the stretch. We need this type of play but we also need more 5 on 5 scoring so we need our talent to get better.

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

As X says, the +++s would have to be great.

Carter @ 5.27 is still above Backlund even if he signs for that $/term.

Toffili would cost us something we won't want to give up (Tkachuk or @ least Bennett+).

Let's face that upgrades cost. I want upgrades @ forward but hope BT concentrates on the fact we have 0 goalies, then adds D & lastly adds to the forwards.

 

I'm wondering if a different approach from management  that insists every player be defensively responsible wouldn't help.

 

I would say if you want Toffoli keep the deal to him, don't make it complicated. Let LA keep their problems.

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

As X says, the +++s would have to be great.

Carter @ 5.27 is still above Backlund even if he signs for that $/term.

Toffili would cost us something we won't want to give up (Tkachuk or @ least Bennett+).

Let's face that upgrades cost. I want upgrades @ forward but hope BT concentrates on the fact we have 0 goalies, then adds D & lastly adds to the forwards.

 

I'm wondering if a different approach from management  that insists every player be defensively responsible wouldn't help.

 

 

I don't disagree.  This isn't in the "Realistic Trade" thread, just identifying two players that make us much better, from a team rapidly becoming marginal in the West.  Backlund for Carter straight up is a loss for the Flames due to the "untapped potential" of Backlund and Carter's long term contract.  

 

If you consider Toffoli for Backlund straight up, then the difficult part is what it would take to get Carter.  It's only realistic they move him if the Kings want to go in a different direction.

[AlbertaBoy12]

47 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

From all I have heard GG is exactly this type of coach and wants all his players to do their part defensively. Also I think this is the part of our game we saw improve the most coming down the stretch. We need this type of play but we also need more 5 on 5 scoring so we need our talent to get better.

I agree completely. Which is why my arguement to trade backlund I think helps us regardless. If he nets us a solid puck mover on the back end it only serves to make the team better same thing with a top 6 winger, not that hes not important. But I think the loss of backlund could be covered by jankowski if he comes into camp with the right attitude. Im not suggesting janko is the same level, just that it wouldnt be as bad as we think.

 

41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't disagree.  This isn't in the "Realistic Trade" thread, just identifying two players that make us much better, from a team rapidly becoming marginal in the West.  Backlund for Carter straight up is a loss for the Flames due to the "untapped potential" of Backlund and Carter's long term contract.  

 

If you consider Toffoli for Backlund straight up, then the difficult part is what it would take to get Carter.  It's only realistic they move him if the Kings want to go in a different direction.

I dont think we would see the flames make that kind of trade regardless of realistic trade thread or not. I think we are more likely to find a replacement in a player like boone jenner or something along those lines. I dont think we need to make a big splash for our top 9 but we do need to find another good complimentary top 9 winger to fill in the gap. 

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree completely. Which is why my arguement to trade backlund I think helps us regardless. If he nets us a solid puck mover on the back end it only serves to make the team better same thing with a top 6 winger, not that hes not important. But I think the loss of backlund could be covered by jankowski if he comes into camp with the right attitude. Im not suggesting janko is the same level, just that it wouldnt be as bad as we think.

 

I dont think we would see the flames make that kind of trade regardless of realistic trade thread or not. I think we are more likely to find a replacement in a player like boone jenner or something along those lines. I dont think we need to make a big splash for our top 9 but we do need to find another good complimentary top 9 winger to fill in the gap. 

 

Carter ticks the boxes of a big scoring center or winger.  Better FO% than backlund.  Scores a ton.  If he was available without pillaging our team, then it should be seriously considered.  Toffoli is less of a reality,

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Carter ticks the boxes of a big scoring center or winger.  Better FO% than backlund.  Scores a ton.  If he was available without pillaging our team, then it should be seriously considered.  Toffoli is less of a reality,

To be honest I don't see LA doing much of anything to correct their situation.

[travel_dude]

Just now, MAC331 said:

To be honest I don't see LA doing much of anything to correct their situation.

 

New management.  They might finally realize that BIG doesn't necessarily mean winner.  Their roster is a bit of a mess right now.  Some really good players and some signed to moster contracts.  Their prospect pool is regarded as one of the worst in the NHL.

And they are moving to a new coach and likely coaching system.

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

New management.  They might finally realize that BIG doesn't necessarily mean winner.  Their roster is a bit of a mess right now.  Some really good players and some signed to moster contracts.  Their prospect pool is regarded as one of the worst in the NHL.

And they are moving to a new coach and likely coaching system.

First of all I see them stuck with their worst contracts and if new managements wants to get better you don't trade two of your better forwards either on good contracts or younger. They are not in cap trouble that I can see but they could move a few defensemen much like PIT did by keeping Letang and going cheap around him.

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

First of all I see them stuck with their worst contracts and if new managements wants to get better you don't trade two of your better forwards either on good contracts or younger. They are not in cap trouble that I can see but they could move a few defensemen much like PIT did by keeping Letang and going cheap around him.

 

Well they currently have $10.8m in cap space with 9F, 6D and 1G signed.  That's Toffoli, 4 forwards, 1D and a backup for $10.8m.  Zatcoff is only $900k not previously included.  All of their RFA's have arbitration rights.  Unless LV takes one of their expensive players, they will be in tight. 

[MAC331]

14 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well they currently have $10.8m in cap space with 9F, 6D and 1G signed.  That's Toffoli, 4 forwards, 1D and a backup for $10.8m.  Zatcoff is only $900k not previously included.  All of their RFA's have arbitration rights.  Unless LV takes one of their expensive players, they will be in tight. 

Tight is tight but not over. There are a few others they could unload but if I put myself in their shoes I hang onto Toffoli as a good young forward. Carter may be the sacrifice but I don't think he comes here.

[MAC331]

I know none of us are mind readers of what Management intentions are however there have been many good suggestions for change on here of late.

The main themes are our need for a RW to play with Gaudreau and Monahan.

Who remains after the Draft and the Expansion Draft ? the want of seeing either Stajan or Brouwer selected

The desire to see BT move all of Bouma, Stajan and Brouwer.

We need as many as 3 defensemen, 2 RHSD and 1 LHSD either from within or brought in.

We need two goalies, does Management go for a core type Goalie with solid support from an experienced starter or two experienced Goalies to buy us some type for our own prospects ?

Is there any thought of trading Backlund or Brodie or both ?

Should any consideration be given to bringing back Versteeg or Chiasson ?

Should we use our 1st round pick to draft or trade ?

Here is where the roster is today

FORWARDS

Gaudreau, Monahan, ???????

????????, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar

Bouma, Stajan, Brouwer

Hamilton, Hathaway

DEFENSE

Giordano, Hamilton

Brodie, ??????

???????, ???????

Bartkowski

GOALIES

??????, ???????

If the decisions is to hang onto Backlund and Brodie we really don't have much to trade with to upgrade.

If we go for a Goalie such as Mrazek, Grubauer or Raanta it will likely cost us our 2017 1st round pick plus, plus.

If we obtain a target Goalie the consensus is sign an experienced starter such as Elliott or Mason, someone to give us close to 40 starts.

If management is not willing to trade Backlund we are likely picking up a few UFA defensemen such as Stone and maybe Holzer for our RSD and work in a few of our prospects on both sides.

If management cannot deal Bouma and Stajan they may still be here.

[AlbertaBoy12]

7 hours ago, MAC331 said:

 

FORWARDS

Gaudreau, Monahan,Niederreiter 

Ferland, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar

Bouma, Stajan, Brouwer

Hamilton, Hathaway

DEFENSE

Giordano, Hamilton

Brodie, Anderrson 

Kulak, Stone

Bartkowski

GOALIES

Grubauer , Johnson

 

Im honestly starting to wonder if BT is waiting to see who gets picked from us in the expansion draft. I dont think its going to change the moves he makes too much but I think it will effect it if brouwer or stajan get taken. I personally think as I stated in another thread that BT brings in andersson to play in the top 4 as long as his fitness improves, and kulak to play bottom pairing minutes with stone. I know its not the best idea to thrust a rookie in there, but unless BT gets a young dman in a trade its hard for him to overpay in free agency when our guys should be ready sooner then later. Its almost certainly a pipe dream, but id love to see the flames pick up niederreiter to play with mony and johnny leaving ferland to play with backlund and frolik. The only reason I think the trade for niederreiter might work is because minny is coming to a crossroads with their group as they get older, and they might want to retool with picks/cap space. 

 

Goaltenders is obviously the hard part, im not really sure where we go with that. Elliott would be a good option but we are risking term, dollars, and a 3rd rounder on him bouncing back. Im assuming the more likely plan is we trade that 3rd + some other stuff for a grubauer or similar goaltender in the younger age group, and bring back johnson for backup duties. 

 

That would be my dream team going into next season, if we could make a better move for a top 4 dman whos proven then sure, but I dont think thats going to happen based on BT comments and the market. Anderrson should be a good option if he can get his fitness level up a bit over the summer, as consistency in the top 4 should come easy then.