MAC331 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, conundrumed said: I don't think BH was as bad as is being portrayed, though I don't think he was great either. He wanted to play a run and gun style and he lived and died by it. I still loved his, "it feels like Romper Room" comment on how many young guys he had. In the end, he was a motivator, he never tore anyone down to the media no matter what, and he had great quotes to throw the media off. Should also remember in adding Hamilton and Frolik, it really does seem to take a season for new players to get acclimated. No coach ever has been 100% loved by his team, keeping it over 50% is the goal. The media really jumped on the timing, rumouring exit meetings as the cause. I doubt any GM at any level bases a firing on that, we know what a country club looks like. No doubt the jury is still out on GG, as we don't really have a roster that is bonafide for the playoffs. GG's in the same boat as Hartley in trying to work with what you've got when you know at heart it is not enough. GG was brought in for the purpose of implementing a new style of play so although he as some veteran players everyone started at ground zero. The start of this season was painfully obvious every player had a lot to adapt to with new systems. Good results are starting to show up and as this process get further down the road we should start to have some consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, CheersMan said: If you want to attribute the Flames most successful season since 2004 to LUCK, that’s your prerogative, but please spare us the negative propaganda please. I’ll chose to remember the season as one where we beat the defending SC champion LA Kings on game 81 to take their playoff spot. The Flames were not the most talented but they were a TEAM, they played for each other, went to war together, refused to quite until the final buzzer and no lead was unsurmountable. The Ferland freight train did not squeak by the Canucks, he steam rolled them. call it negative propaganda im just stating the facts. I also loved the series against the canucks, but while ferland ran over the canucks, we also won in game 7 its not like we were dominant. I Think the only reason alot of those attributes you listed were the case is because of the fact that no one thought they would be anything that season. I think the flames team this season is playing for each other and when they are playing well they dont quit. The flames have been inconsistent at times, but outside of a few games I dont think the flames have quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: Seriously? If he could have fixed his specialty teams he would have done it, he wouldnt have sat on it and let it stick up the joint. Just about every player eh, is that why russell and wideman both had crappy years last year? our goalies sucked, hamitlon was buried on the 3rd pairing, bennett was playing the wing, the list goes on. You are basically comparing 4 years of BH to 3 months of GG at this point, and in that time mony has started to turn around his defensive game, hamilton is on track for a career year, our team looks much better in general. Bennett is proving this year he is not ready to play C. Bennett is one of my favourite players, but I can see it is painfully obvious, yet he gets criticized for not getting more production. He is a player that should've been in the A last year had they wanted him to develop as a C. I agree, Hartley needed to work on the pp, but never got it improved. i liked the exciting odd mans, but did not like the odd mans against. Their work ethic changed when they thought they were going to be a perennial playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Bennett is proving this year he is not ready to play C. Bennett is one of my favourite players, but I can see it is painfully obvious, yet he gets criticized for not getting more production. He is a player that should've been in the A last year had they wanted him to develop as a C. I agree, Hartley needed to work on the pp, but never got it improved. i liked the exciting odd mans, but did not like the odd mans against. Their work ethic changed when they thought they were going to be a perennial playoff team. Bennett couldnt have been in the A last year tho is the only thing. Bennett lost a year of development due to his shoulder injury and has started to look really good recently in my opinion. I think he will be fine, but BH didnt even really give him much of a chance at center last year. Our PP and PK were atrocious, there was no improvement. We have mostly the same players minus brouwer this year and all of a sudden we are top 10 in the league. Sounds like a coaching thing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 56 minutes ago, MAC331 said: GG was brought in for the purpose of implementing a new style of play so although he as some veteran players everyone started at ground zero. The start of this season was painfully obvious every player had a lot to adapt to with new systems. Good results are starting to show up and as this process get further down the road we should start to have some consistency. Should being the keyword. 5 days off, it's crunch time, we're about to see how we respond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: Bennett couldnt have been in the A last year tho is the only thing. Bennett lost a year of development due to his shoulder injury and has started to look really good recently in my opinion. I think he will be fine, but BH didnt even really give him much of a chance at center last year. Our PP and PK were atrocious, there was no improvement. We have mostly the same players minus brouwer this year and all of a sudden we are top 10 in the league. Sounds like a coaching thing to me. Ya, I agree! I think Hartley liked Bennett's offence as a winger. I think Bennett can be a good C too. It'll just mean patience is needed. i think Hartley could've given Bennett the Monahan treatment last year by sheltering him a bit more. Bennett already had NHL experience though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 7 hours ago, CheersMan said: You got me curious so I looked it up. Half of the top 20 all-time coaches in terms of NHL games coached and wins had decent hockey playing careers. These coaches were in the top 20. Joel Quenneville, Dick Irvin, Ron Wilson, Pat Quinn, Lindy Ruff, Jacques Lemaire, Marc Crawford, Darryl Sutter, Billy Reay, Brian Sutter, Terry Murray. Evidently players make good coaches half the time. No one said players don't make good coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 12 hours ago, cross16 said: No one said players don't make good coaches. I always thought borderline good players made good coaches because they were the type always trying to prove themselves. A lot goes into any successful person, smarts, motivation, experience and knowledge can serve a person well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 On 2017-02-09 at 11:20 AM, cross16 said: So what do you say about Claude Julien in Montreal? or how about the 1 year he lasted in New Jersey? Good coaches get fired ALL the time so if your barometer is once a coach is fired he isn't any good you won't find many coaches capable of coaching in the league. I'm not saying Julien isn't a good coach as I think he is but I also happen to believe Gulutzan is a good coach too and i don't think his record in Dallas reflects positively or negatively on that. He had that team in the playoff race b oth years and they were not very impressive on paper. it's pretty hard to improve by "leaps and bounds" year after year so i'm not really sure what benchmark you were looking at to show improvement. But when you consider that this team is better 5 on 5, has a better record, is MUCH better defensively, has SIGNIFICANTLY better special teams, better in 1 goal games, but yet is basically the same team as last year with basically the same level of goaltending I fail to see how people can make the case that this isn't a much better team than last year. I think Gulutzan deserves a bulk of the credit for the improvement in this team. The two things I know are Hartley and D Sutter did more with less, which does deserve some credit. GG will get his season here which is fine, but everyone is kidding themselves that GG gets selected over Julien. Hey no qualified coach would ever coach here, so where does that put GG? The true metric is we are not in a playoff spot with a better roster and only 6 points better than last season, really it isn't anything to get excited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 10 hours ago, tmac70 said: The two things I know are Hartley and D Sutter did more with less, which does deserve some credit. GG will get his season here which is fine, but everyone is kidding themselves that GG gets selected over Julien. Hey no qualified coach would ever coach here, so where does that put GG? The true metric is we are not in a playoff spot with a better roster and only 6 points better than last season, really it isn't anything to get excited about. A better roster in what respect we signed Brouwer? And that makes 20-30 points better? Yes we have acquired some better goalies since last year, but I'm missing where exactly this team was supposed to get loads better in the point column in your opinion. Dont even look at the facts that since our rough start or the turn around on nov 21 we have gone 23-13-2. That's a pretty respectable record, so for all the complaints against GG sure looks pretty good since the rough start. Has the team struggled with consistency? Of course but what young team doesn't, look at Edmonton in their last 5. GG had turned this team around in a lot of ways and if the way this team has performed since Nov 21 doesn't show you that, well I don't know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 15 hours ago, tmac70 said: The two things I know are Hartley and D Sutter did more with less, which does deserve some credit. GG will get his season here which is fine, but everyone is kidding themselves that GG gets selected over Julien. Hey no qualified coach would ever coach here, so where does that put GG? The true metric is we are not in a playoff spot with a better roster and only 6 points better than last season, really it isn't anything to get excited about. Never said no qualified coach would come here, said I don't think a Marquee coach who has the choice of wherever they want to go will likely come here. Do you really think Julien is going to come here when the sales pitches is "hey just let us fire the guy in year 1 who has done a decent job with a so/so roster, and then we will bring you in". Not sure why you consistently argue this is a better roster when it really isn't. I think any gains made at the forward position are offset but father time catching up with 2/3 of our D core. If you are willing to make a firm decision on Gulutzan less than 3/4 of the way into his first season that is your choice. But what I see is a team that is already better than any team Hartley coached and trending in the right direction. Record's are similar yes, but keep in mind last year after game 52 the flames lost 7 of their next 8 and then went 6-8-2 in March. So while things look similar today I think this team is much better positioned than last year's team because I just don't see their game falling off a cliff like last year's team. For as great a job as you think Hartley did they are only 8 points behind his team of 2 years ago and that team had just about everything go right for them, where Gulutzan has dealt with a ton of crap in his first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Can cross Julien off the list. He is now the coach of the Montreal Canadians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, cross16 said: Can cross Julien off the list. He is now the coach of the Montreal Canadians. Cue the "Treliving should have hired him first." posts. Or the "Treliving should fire GG and hire Therrien." Posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Cue the "Treliving should have hired him first." posts. Or the "Treliving should fire GG and hire Therrien." Posts. I do miss the BH accent in post-game pressers. Not enough to bing in Therrien. IMHO, he should have been canned last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I do miss the BH accent in post-game pressers. Not enough to bing in Therrien. IMHO, he should have been canned last year. Bergevin should be fired, he is a terrible GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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