Who's to Blame?

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think we will find out some answers on a lot of these questions as the season progresses. I have no doubt Bennett can become a very good C and I think he needs to be flanked by these veterans so he learns. Monahan is as fundamentally sound a player as I have seen in a long time, he is a C and should stay there. He is like an Yzerman, nothing flashy simply does all the necessary things well. The element for the JG/SM line IMO is another threat that the opposition has to concern themselves with so the others can do their thing.

I think people will be surprised at how much potential Jankowski has in his game now and for the future,

I think the interesting point will come whether the flames decide to retain backlund another couple seasons, if they keep him one of bennett or jankowski will switch to the wing as you arent going to play either one as 4th line center unless jankowski cant make the transition to the NHL. Although intitial returns on his ability to transition to the AAA are looking good, id be interested to see if jankowski could fill the role of LW during his call up here, or possibly center for bennett either/or might be interesting.

[robrob74]

I don't see Monahan as an yzerman type. Monahan doesn't control play the way Stevie-Y did. I thought Monahan might have had some of Yzerman's will but this year, he is not showing any of that fire anyone who watched Yzerman play saw. 

 

I dont know who monahan would be like. I don't see the same fire you see from guys like Bennett and Toews etc. 

 

I do like it when Monahan is engaged in the game. 

[MAC331]

32 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't see Monahan as an yzerman type. Monahan doesn't control play the way Stevie-Y did. I thought Monahan might have had some of Yzerman's will but this year, he is not showing any of that fire anyone who watched Yzerman play saw. 

 

I dont know who monahan would be like. I don't see the same fire you see from guys like Bennett and Toews etc. 

 

I do like it when Monahan is engaged in the game. 

I don't know how old you are but Yzerman wasn't an instant success when he entered the NHL, is game emerged as he gained experience and was never the show himself. He quietly went about his business chalking up points here and there much like Monahan. You are riding Monahan pretty hard considering how he had to start the season and what has gone on with that line since, anyone is only so much of a miracle worker. Bennett has fire but raging uncontrolled fire is not good and he will learn this season to control his play. Teows IMO has been the best player in the league for quite sometime and no Monahan is not at that level.

[robrob74]

14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't know how old you are but Yzerman wasn't an instant success when he entered the NHL, is game emerged as he gained experience and was never the show himself. He quietly went about his business chalking up points here and there much like Monahan. You are riding Monahan pretty hard considering how he had to start the season and what has gone on with that line since, anyone is only so much of a miracle worker. Bennett has fire but raging uncontrolled fire is not good and he will learn this season to control his play. Teows IMO has been the best player in the league for quite sometime and no Monahan is not at that level.

 

42...

[robrob74]

I could be giving Monahan a hard time. But I am for 6.3 reasons. He's getting paid to be a guy who drives play and he just is not doing that. His excuses are out the window. No more, missing camp, or look what his line has been through excuses. He's getting paid 6.3 million to put more effort in and he just is not doing that.

 

Edited in: If he is injured, sit him. He hurts the team more than he is helping them right now. HE is a reason that his line mate got injured last game, when Brouwer rammed into Versteeg. It was Monahan's play that caused that collision. Plus his giveaways are creating chances against us...

[MAC331]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I could be giving Monahan a hard time. But I am for 6.3 reasons. He's getting paid to be a guy who drives play and he just is not doing that. His excuses are out the window. No more, missing camp, or look what his line has been through excuses. He's getting paid 6.3 million to put more effort in and he just is not doing that.

 

Edited in: If he is injured, sit him. He hurts the team more than he is helping them right now. HE is a reason that his line mate got injured last game, when Brouwer rammed into Versteeg. It was Monahan's play that caused that collision. Plus his giveaways are creating chances against us...

You really have to get off this money = type of performance. You don't know what Monahan has been going through or if these are excuses or real issues for him. Why sit him if he can play through it. I wouldn't exactly say his line mates have been top notch or at their best. I'm not sure what you are expecting him to do. Quit your grumbling.

[robrob74]

Just now, MAC331 said:

You really have to get off this money = type of performance. You don't know what Monahan has been going through or if these are excuses or real issues for him. Why sit him if he can play through it. I wouldn't exactly say his line mates have been top notch or at their best. I'm not sure what you are expecting him to do. Quit your grumbling.

 

OK,

 

That's hilarious. How can you not expect more from him when he is getting paid to produce. Why pay a guy 6.3 million then? TO play hockey, yes. But with that kind of money there comes an expectation.

There a lot of people in these threads who can't stand Stajan, and haven't liked him for the whole time he has been here. This year he's been one of the best players/consistency-wise. 

IF Monahan is this great C that you're claiming him to be then he should be making the guys around him better. He sure is getting paid to... You cannot differentiate the money when he is getting paid that much. Sorry. You can't just tell me to quit grumbling. You better quit yours too on all other players you grumble about in that case.

[DirtyDeeds]

Our top line all season has been Backs, Folik and whoever they put with that combo(lately Tkachuk).

 

There has been no other line combinations even close.

 

Monahan has not played near his potential or even close to the level he has shown us since he 1st made the team. We don't know if it is the big contract like BB said, or that he is still injured like he was in preseason like missing the Worlds and all of preseason(back problems according to BT) but he isn't playing to his worth. Personally I think he is injured and trying to play through it just like he played with injuries through the playoffs run we did have a couple seasons ago.

[cross16]

I've actually been wondering if the Jankowski call up is related to a Monahan injury. I don't think they would call him up unless they wanted him to play and IMO that doesn't mean 4th line. I won't be surprised if Monahan suddenly winds up on IR and Jankowski is in. 

Monahan certainly hasn't played anywhere close to what he can, there is no denying that. He needs to be much better. 

[DirtyDeeds]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I've actually been wondering if the Jankowski call up is related to a Monahan injury. I don't think they would call him up unless they wanted him to play and IMO that doesn't mean 4th line. I won't be surprised if Monahan suddenly winds up on IR and Jankowski is in. 

Monahan certainly hasn't played anywhere close to what he can, there is no denying that. He needs to be much better. 

Fan 960 said he was called up due to the Kris Versteeg injury, just that he wouldn't be put into the lineup last night against the Bruins.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Fan 960 said he was called up due to the Kris Versteeg injury, just that he wouldn't be put into the lineup last night against the Bruins.

 

I get that is the public message but it seems like there is more to this. It doesn't make sense to call up your top prospect in the A to replace someone unless you think they are going to be out long term. I'll be pretty dissapointd in Treliving if Jankowski is here just in case. 

[robrob74]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I get that is the public message but it seems like there is more to this. It doesn't make sense to call up your top prospect in the A to replace someone unless you think they are going to be out long term. I'll be pretty dissapointd in Treliving if Jankowski is here just in case. 

 

Another thing is, Versteeg is a winger and Jankowski is not. 

[MAC331]

58 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

OK,

 

That's hilarious. How can you not expect more from him when he is getting paid to produce. Why pay a guy 6.3 million then? TO play hockey, yes. But with that kind of money there comes an expectation.

There a lot of people in these threads who can't stand Stajan, and haven't liked him for the whole time he has been here. This year he's been one of the best players/consistency-wise. 

IF Monahan is this great C that you're claiming him to be then he should be making the guys around him better. He sure is getting paid to... You cannot differentiate the money when he is getting paid that much. Sorry. You can't just tell me to quit grumbling. You better quit yours too on all other players you grumble about in that case.

Sometimes it is not how you start but how you finish. Was he under paid the last two seasons or about right ? these players earn these contracts based on what they have done and will do. It will never be about him not earning it or giving the selfish fan his money's worth each and every night.

I don't see it as hilarious because I don't expect these guys to pot goals every night or even get a certain number of assists, the accumulation over the course of the season tells the story eventually. I grumble about their performances not the money they get make there is a difference. I don't think Monahan can make Chiasson better or Versteeg they are what they are 3rd or 4th liners. Like I said there hasn't been much consistency in play or players for that top line so why complain about just one player ? 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I've actually been wondering if the Jankowski call up is related to a Monahan injury. I don't think they would call him up unless they wanted him to play and IMO that doesn't mean 4th line. I won't be surprised if Monahan suddenly winds up on IR and Jankowski is in. 

Monahan certainly hasn't played anywhere close to what he can, there is no denying that. He needs to be much better. 

 

That's always possible.  I think that Janko could be part of an all-AHL line.  Shink-Janko-Hathaway was the top line in Stockton this year.  Freddie is good at forechecking and 2-way play, bu the line has gone silent otherwise.  Play the AHL line, limit their minutes until they show they can handle it.  On the road, they could face some real good players.

[Kulstad]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Sometimes it is not how you start but how you finish. Was he under paid the last two seasons or about right?

Seeing as how he was still in his ELC last year, it was "about right"

 

 

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

these players earn these contracts based on what they have done and will do. It will never be about him not earning it or giving the selfish fan his money's worth each and every night.

...and based on what he has done, he is not doing what the Flames gave him a pay raise to do (he's not the only one, but he's the topic of this side-discussion).  The "selfish fan" pays to see top-paid (therefore top-expected) players play like top-paid players, not overpaid 4th-liners.

 

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I don't see it as hilarious because I don't expect these guys to pot goals every night or even get a certain number of assists, the accumulation over the course of the season tells the story eventually. I grumble about their performances not the money they get make there is a difference.

based on your "these players earn these contracts based on what they have done and will do" comment, Monahan isn't doing anything close to what a $6M/season player should be doing.  I don't expect him to score every game, or even get an assist every game, but I sure as hell expect him to be visible and impactful every game.  So far this season, he is not (again, he's not the only one)

[AlbertaBoy12]

38 minutes ago, Kulstad said:

 

based on your "these players earn these contracts based on what they have done and will do" comment, Monahan isn't doing anything close to what a $6M/season player should be doing.  I don't expect him to score every game, or even get an assist every game, but I sure as hell expect him to be visible and impactful every game.  So far this season, he is not (again, he's not the only one)

Ive seen him make some good defensive plays, really good defensive plays. Im not saying hes been great offensively but his D zone game this season has been awesome, and he hasent been a slouch in the dot either. Im not worried about him hes struggling offensively, but the rest of his game hasent looked all that bad. I know hes a -10, hes made a few mistakes im sure it will be fine.

[conundrumed]

How quickly we turn on a struggling player. lol

3 years of great development leading to $6.3 is wiped away in 20 games?

He'll come around, he's a great player just struggling atm.

I am not concerned at all, he's been a very good C and leader for a long time including his jr yrs.

If anyone knows he's struggling, I'm sure it's him.

[cccsberg]

The new coaches and systems have affected every player and what we had become used to to varying extents.  The ONLY guys that come to mind that have played better this year are Stajan, Ferland and.... well, that's about it.  Now, hopefully its an adjustment thing.  Either the players adjust and eventually their other talents come back to the fore, i.e. offence or the fans need to adjust to a style of play that harnesses individual achievement at the expense of better overall team play.  This discussion is fine, but I believe getting on the players is missing the main point, the elephant in the room which is in all probability the biggest reason for variation in results from the past few seasons, the coaches and systems.

[MAC331]

14 hours ago, Kulstad said:

Seeing as how he was still in his ELC last year, it was "about right"

 

 

...and based on what he has done, he is not doing what the Flames gave him a pay raise to do (he's not the only one, but he's the topic of this side-discussion).  The "selfish fan" pays to see top-paid (therefore top-expected) players play like top-paid players, not overpaid 4th-liners.

 

based on your "these players earn these contracts based on what they have done and will do" comment, Monahan isn't doing anything close to what a $6M/season player should be doing.  I don't expect him to score every game, or even get an assist every game, but I sure as hell expect him to be visible and impactful every game.  So far this season, he is not (again, he's not the only one)

The only worry I have about Monahan is whether he is 100%. Trying to stand out on a makeshift line isn't ideal for any player especially if you aren't 100% yourself. We all know a lot of Monahan's scoring success came from playing with a feeder like JG now he is the worker on the line. People may be expecting some things he doesn't have in his game.

[stubblejumper1]

19 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I don't know how old you are but Yzerman wasn't an instant success when he entered the NHL, is game emerged as he gained experience and was never the show himself. He quietly went about his business chalking up points here and there much like Monahan. You are riding Monahan pretty hard considering how he had to start the season and what has gone on with that line since, anyone is only so much of a miracle worker. Bennett has fire but raging uncontrolled fire is not good and he will learn this season to control his play. Teows IMO has been the best player in the league for quite sometime and no Monahan is not at that level.

 

I have to disagree - Yzerman was an instant success.  He scored over a point a game in his first, second and fourth seasons.  Some say he developed his defensive game over time, but it's not like he was a liability early on, he was just on weak teams (just like Monahan.)

 

Yzerman was one of the best centres of all time.  The only guys in the league that can be realistically compared to him Yzerman are Crosby, Toews, McDavid and maybe Kopitar.  Monahan will probably never be at that level (that doesn't mean his isn't a good player) and definitely isn't playing at that level this year.

 

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

The new coaches and systems have affected every player and what we had become used to to varying extents.  The ONLY guys that come to mind that have played better this year are Stajan, Ferland and.... well, that's about it.  Now, hopefully its an adjustment thing.  Either the players adjust and eventually their other talents come back to the fore, i.e. offence or the fans need to adjust to a style of play that harnesses individual achievement at the expense of better overall team play.  This discussion is fine, but I believe getting on the players is missing the main point, the elephant in the room which is in all probability the biggest reason for variation in results from the past few seasons, the coaches and systems.

I don't think the system can be blamed any longer. We are now experiencing different effects from injuries and line chemistry issues IMO. The team play has been improving all along however we expect more from certain players like Monahan, which is fair to a degree. The team really needs to get their PP firing in some goals to help their efforts.

[MAC331]

7 minutes ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I have to disagree - Yzerman was an instant success.  He scored over a point a game in his first, second and fourth seasons.  Some say he developed his defensive game over time, but it's not like he was a liability early on, he was just on weak teams (just like Monahan.)

 

Yzerman was one of the best centres of all time.  The only guys in the league that can be realistically compared to him Yzerman are Crosby, Toews, McDavid and maybe Kopitar.  Monahan will probably never be at that level (that doesn't mean his isn't a good player) and definitely isn't playing at that level this year.

 

Well if you want to look deeper there were lots of good Centers other than the 4 you mention but I'm not going to get into all of this. Monahan is a very fundamentally sound hockey player himself and has his own set of talents. On the offensive side he knows where to be within the perimeter out front and score. He isn't strong along the boards is about the only weakness I have seen. His game continues to grow which is what I look for each season, right now there is issues with him and his line.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I have to disagree - Yzerman was an instant success.  He scored over a point a game in his first, second and fourth seasons.  Some say he developed his defensive game over time, but it's not like he was a liability early on, he was just on weak teams (just like Monahan.)

 

Yzerman was one of the best centres of all time.  The only guys in the league that can be realistically compared to him Yzerman are Crosby, Toews, McDavid and maybe Kopitar.  Monahan will probably never be at that level (that doesn't mean his isn't a good player) and definitely isn't playing at that level this year.

 

 

And Sakic. I think he and Sakic are made from the same cloth.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Well if you want to look deeper there were lots of good Centers other than the 4 you mention but I'm not going to get into all of this. Monahan is a very fundamentally sound hockey player himself and has his own set of talents. On the offensive side he knows where to be within the perimeter out front and score. He isn't strong along the boards is about the only weakness I have seen. His game continues to grow which is what I look for each season, right now there is issues with him and his line.

 

 

I wonder too whether it's the other teams figuring out they need to defend him more, especially with that contract. It could be that he has to find a way through more dense checking. 

 

I do want him to succeed. 

[MAC331]

22 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I think the interesting point will come whether the flames decide to retain backlund another couple seasons, if they keep him one of bennett or jankowski will switch to the wing as you arent going to play either one as 4th line center unless jankowski cant make the transition to the NHL. Although intitial returns on his ability to transition to the AAA are looking good, id be interested to see if jankowski could fill the role of LW during his call up here, or possibly center for bennett either/or might be interesting.

Do you expect they will extend Backlund at 5.5M, this is what he will be seeking or do they go with Bennett after next season ? If they go with Bennett I expect Backlund will be traded and Jankowski our 3rd line C never to play wing.