What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Think Tkachuk and his reps would find this as humerous as I did. 

Ya I could see Tkachuk's reps having a good laugh when Tkachuk calls them up and asks for a loan to pay off the new Lambo he had put a deposit on and then asks if they could come over to help him unpack in his parents basement.

[LouCifer]

11 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

2.  Taking a discount to allow the team to sign better players, while altruistic, can be a huge risk.  

- Will the team sign better players, or will it spend money on free agents like James Neal and Troy Brouwer?  

- Will the team take advantage of their opportunities or will they roll over and die in the playoffs (like last year)?

- Even if the GM is able to assemble a really good team because you left money on the table, that doesn't guarantee anything.  Many things beyond the team's control have to go right for a team to win a Cup - no key injuries, the playoff bracket (i.e. the Leafs drawing the Bruins in the first round last year), running into a hot goaltender, etc.

 

Entirely possible. Can’t disagree that GMs could make mistakes, luck becomes a factor, etc, etc. However, not leaving enough pie on the table reduces your opportunity to play with quality players, handcuffs your GM in the trade market, and ultimately reduces your chances to compete for a cup. If a players goal is to win a cup, they must realize that they need to be surrounded by good players to do it. 

 

Which brings me back to Doughty and his $11mil cap hit. If only he realized how his own contract will be responsible for his inability to compete for a cup again during his prime playing years...

Doughty: 'Since we won the last Cup, it's been Satoshi Nakamoto'

[Ward54]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

Would love to see this magical list of players the Flames can easily bring in to replace Tkachuk......

Josh Anderson.

 

Trade Tkachuk to Columbus for the 25 year old 6’3, 221 pound right shot, right wing and his $1.85m cap hit. Had 47 points in 82 games last year and was a plus 25. Will be an rfa with arbitration rights after this season. 

 

He likely slots in nicely on either of the top two lines. With Gaudreau, Bennett, Lucic, Mangiapane and Dube for the left side maybe Anderson gives us a better balance. If we signed Mangiapane at $850k we would still have $4.3m in cap space with Frolik and Brodie still with us. 

 

Columbus would have $12.5m in cap space to sign Tkachuk and still have space and gives them a replacement for Panarin.

 

This is the only player I would be willing to trade Tkachuk for and am fully aware this will be an unpopular opinion but ultimately I think it makes us better.

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, Ward54 said:

Josh Anderson.

 

Trade Tkachuk to Columbus for the 25 year old 6’3, 221 pound right shot, right wing and his $1.85m cap hit. Had 47 points in 82 games last year and was a plus 25. Will be an rfa with arbitration rights after this season. 

 

He likely slots in nicely on either of the top two lines. With Gaudreau, Bennett, Lucic, Mangiapane and Dube for the left side maybe Anderson gives us a better balance. If we signed Mangiapane at $850k we would still have $4.3m in cap space with Frolik and Brodie still with us. 

 

Columbus would have $12.5m in cap space to sign Tkachuk and still have space and gives them a replacement for Panarin.

 

This is the only player I would be willing to trade Tkachuk for and am fully aware this will be an unpopular opinion but ultimately I think it makes us better.

 

I like Anderson as much as the next guy, but he isn't half as good as Tkachuk and will looking for similar money to Tom Wilson, potentially more if he has a big year this year. I could easily see him getting north of $6m on his next deal. I just don't see the logic.

[redfire11]

50 minutes ago, Ward54 said:

Josh Anderson.

 

Trade Tkachuk to Columbus for the 25 year old 6’3, 221 pound right shot, right wing and his $1.85m cap hit. Had 47 points in 82 games last year and was a plus 25. Will be an rfa with arbitration rights after this season. 

 

He likely slots in nicely on either of the top two lines. With Gaudreau, Bennett, Lucic, Mangiapane and Dube for the left side maybe Anderson gives us a better balance. If we signed Mangiapane at $850k we would still have $4.3m in cap space with Frolik and Brodie still with us. 

 

Columbus would have $12.5m in cap space to sign Tkachuk and still have space and gives them a replacement for Panarin.

 

This is the only player I would be willing to trade Tkachuk for and am fully aware this will be an unpopular opinion but ultimately I think it makes us better.

I would really like to see Josh Anderson on our team as he is the real deal power forward that we lack. But I think for Tkachuk Clb would would need to add and it would most likely be a prospect as they are short of picks.

Peeke, Andrew  comes to mind. A good future RD

[sak22]

14 hours ago, lou44291 said:

 

Entirely possible. Can’t disagree that GMs could make mistakes, luck becomes a factor, etc, etc. However, not leaving enough pie on the table reduces your opportunity to play with quality players, handcuffs your GM in the trade market, and ultimately reduces your chances to compete for a cup. If a players goal is to win a cup, they must realize that they need to be surrounded by good players to do it. 

 

Which brings me back to Doughty and his $11mil cap hit. If only he realized how his own contract will be responsible for his inability to compete for a cup again during his prime playing years...

Doughty: 'Since we won the last Cup, it's been Satoshi Nakamoto'

Doughty and Kopitar do make up for a good % of the cap and underperformed last year, but their contracts also didn't prevent the team from signing Kovalchuk which was good money and a dreadful signing, right now as they sit they can still add players.  Their problems aren't because of what Doughty's cap hit brings it's been what they've got from the rest of the team since winning.  Quick and Carter are often injured, Brown and Toffoli have been up and down, and they haven't brought in any significant prospects in recent years.  That's why they are where they are.  

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

Doughty and Kopitar do make up for a good % of the cap and underperformed last year, but their contracts also didn't prevent the team from signing Kovalchuk which was good money and a dreadful signing, right now as they sit they can still add players.  Their problems aren't because of what Doughty's cap hit brings it's been what they've got from the rest of the team since winning.  Quick and Carter are often injured, Brown and Toffoli have been up and down, and they haven't brought in any significant prospects in recent years.  That's why they are where they are.  

 

I agree there are many factors Sak22. I’m just saying massive contracts are one of them, when they don’t necessarily have to be. Take a look at the Leafs (I live in Toronto). They’ve got 3 players making over $10mil. In fact, 4 players make up $40mil (almost 50%) of their cap. What kind of team will surround these 4 players moving forward? Tyson Barrie is on D this season, but word is he’ll be looking for $8mil next year and the leafs are priced out of retaining him. Who’s going to play D for them moving forward? In my eyes they’re betting on winning it this year, despite the media saying they’ve got a 3 year window (linking to Reilly’s and Andersen’s need for new contracts at that point). 

 

Again, just saying that the more a player wants of the pie for himself, the opposite effect on the talent he will be surrounded with - which ultimately affects his potential to win a cup. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

I agree there are many factors Sak22. I’m just saying massive contracts are one of them, when they don’t necessarily have to be. Take a look at the Leafs (I live in Toronto). They’ve got 3 players making over $10mil. In fact, 4 players make up $40mil (almost 50%) of their cap. What kind of team will surround these 4 players moving forward? Tyson Barrie is on D this season, but word is he’ll be looking for $8mil next year and the leafs are priced out of retaining him. Who’s going to play D for them moving forward? In my eyes they’re betting on winning it this year, despite the media saying they’ve got a 3 year window (linking to Reilly’s and Andersen’s need for new contracts at that point). 

 

Again, just saying that the more a player wants of the pie for himself, the opposite effect on the talent he will be surrounded with - which ultimately affects his potential to win a cup. 

 

You can;t build a team like that.  Not Marner's fault that he was the last to sign.

Zaitsev isn;t out for the season, so they have to do something sooner than later.

 

[robrob74]

38 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You can;t build a team like that.  Not Marner's fault that he was the last to sign.

Zaitsev isn;t out for the season, so they have to do something sooner than later.

 

 

 

I don’t necessarily see it as a Marner thing. I see it as top players as a whole, pricing good support players off of a team. It isn’t Marner, it’s the four Lou is talking about. 

[Going4TheCup]

Since Mangiapane signed right now I think we might all be surprised to what Chucky signs for if he signs!!

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I don’t necessarily see it as a Marner thing. I see it as top players as a whole, pricing good support players off of a team. It isn’t Marner, it’s the four Lou is talking about. 

 

Well, you can look at it that Dubas was smart and locked up his best players for years.

Between Tavares and Matthews, it set the bar for Marner.

UFA bid out the other teams.

Matthews is their franchise player, so he was going for McDavid money.

Marner benefitted from both.

There isn't a 4th player that makes a big difference.

 

What I am saying is that you can't build a team like that and expect to last very long.

3 players making star salaries.

2 of them will get big raises when they are still young.

I'm okay with paying your franchise player top money and maybe a 2nd one, but not three, without even considering what your top D and G will make later.

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Zaitsev isn;t out for the season, so they have to do something sooner than later.

 

 

Zaitsev is a Senator now. I just saw an article on Sportsnet that echoes my post above (link). When I posted, I didn’t realize that Reilly is the only defensemen signed beyond this season for the Leafs!  Like I said, it seems to be cup or bust for them this year because next year they’ll have no D and no cap. 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, Going4TheCup said:

Since Mangiapane signed right now I think we might all be surprised to what Chucky signs for if he signs!!

 

Very happy to see the signing! Go Mange! I’d be pleased if you were right about Tkachuk as well. I’m all for a 2 or 3 year bridge deal that keeps the cap down so long that he remains under team control thereafter. 

[JTech780]

12 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

Very happy to see the signing! Go Mange! I’d be pleased if you were right about Tkachuk as well. I’m all for a 2 or 3 year bridge deal that keeps the cap down so long that he remains under team control thereafter. 

 

A bridge deal might be the way to go, but if Tkachuk is a $8-9m player now on a long term deal, he is probably a $10-12m player on a long term deal in 3 years.

[rickross]

13 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

Very happy to see the signing! Go Mange! I’d be pleased if you were right about Tkachuk as well. I’m all for a 2 or 3 year bridge deal that keeps the cap down so long that he remains under team control thereafter. 

Mange took a nice pay cut for the betterment of the team! Like the kid even more now. Sounds like Flames are inching in closer to getting the Tkachuk deal done now. Gotta be careful though 3-4 year deal will coincide with either Monny or JH’s extensions...

[JTech780]

Just now, rickross said:

Mange took a nice pay cut for the betterment of the team! Like the kid even more now. Sounds like Flames are inching in closer to getting the Tkachuk deal done now. Gotta be careful though 3-4 year deal will coincide with either Monny or JH’s extensions...

 

He didn't take a pay cut for the betterment of the team, he took the only contract offer he was going to get. Much different situation than Tkachuk.

[JTech780]

20 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

Zaitsev is a Senator now. I just saw an article on Sportsnet that echoes my post above (link). When I posted, I didn’t realize that Reilly is the only defensemen signed beyond this season for the Leafs!  Like I said, it seems to be cup or bust for them this year because next year they’ll have no D and no cap. 

 

Signing Matthews and Marner to their deals isn't the issue with the Leafs, it was signing Tavares when they already had a 1st line center. That's the money that should be going to their defense.

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

Zaitsev is a Senator now. I just saw an article on Sportsnet that echoes my post above (link). When I posted, I didn’t realize that Reilly is the only defensemen signed beyond this season for the Leafs!  Like I said, it seems to be cup or bust for them this year because next year they’ll have no D and no cap. 

Don't know why I said Zaitsev.  Was meaning Hyman.

Also, Dermot is out thought he makes little.

[LouCifer]

25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

A bridge deal might be the way to go, but if Tkachuk is a $8-9m player now on a long term deal, he is probably a $10-12m player on a long term deal in 3 years.

 

I hear you JT. Hopefully that coincides with the new TV and betting deal. I think we have a window here, it won’t last forever, so maybe I don’t look at contracts having to last “forever” before a re-evaluation needs to take place. 

[travel_dude]

41 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

A bridge deal might be the way to go, but if Tkachuk is a $8-9m player now on a long term deal, he is probably a $10-12m player on a long term deal in 3 years.

 

If they could get him to a full term now for 8-9m just do it.

Draisaitl is starting to look like a good deal, and will be better in a few years.

Meanwhile, we signed shorter term deals with Monahan and JH, which will cost a lot if they continue to put up big points.

 

BT won't get a 8 year deal now.  He won't pay up to $9m, worth it or not.

It puts him in a big hole he can't get out of without someone helping him out.

Someone like VAN, who let TBL out of their situation.

 

[cross16]

21 hours ago, lou44291 said:

 

I agree there are many factors Sak22. I’m just saying massive contracts are one of them, when they don’t necessarily have to be. Take a look at the Leafs (I live in Toronto). They’ve got 3 players making over $10mil. In fact, 4 players make up $40mil (almost 50%) of their cap. What kind of team will surround these 4 players moving forward? Tyson Barrie is on D this season, but word is he’ll be looking for $8mil next year and the leafs are priced out of retaining him. Who’s going to play D for them moving forward? In my eyes they’re betting on winning it this year, despite the media saying they’ve got a 3 year window (linking to Reilly’s and Andersen’s need for new contracts at that point). 

 

Again, just saying that the more a player wants of the pie for himself, the opposite effect on the talent he will be surrounded with - which ultimately affects his potential to win a cup. 

 

IMO, this is an cop out that seems to shift the blame to the player which i think is incorrect. Big contracts are not IMO, what leads to teams downfalls, their inability to draft, develop and the old school desire of contending teams believe they need to move all their picks/prospects is what does it in. Depth suffers when you can't draft but if you can draft or find under valued players you will be fine. That's an organization problem not a player one which is another reason i don't like to call players greedy. 

 

I also thikn that more cap space has not exactly proven to be the asset people think it is as most GMs wind up spending it in FA and overpaying. 

[cross16]

16 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Draisaitl is starting to look like a good deal, and will be better in a few years.

 

 

Which is why I think when you have a player you think is a star you need to lock him up for as long as you can and if it costs you an additional 750-1mill more do it. How much better would the Flames look now if Gaudrau had an extra year or 2 on his deal even if it mean paying him $7.25 AAV? why I also don't think the Leafs are as screwed as people think. 

 

But players/agents have seen the same thing and that's why the league is changing. It's a bit funny because most people thought McDavid and his last contract was going to set the bar and instead it's turned around the league. 

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Which is why I think when you have a player you think is a star you need to lock him up for as long as you can and if it costs you an additional 750-1mill more do it. How much better would the Flames look now if Gaudrau had an extra year or 2 on his deal even if it mean paying him $7.25 AAV? why I also don't think the Leafs are as screwed as people think. 

 

The Leafs will have issues with Matthews and Marner's extensions.

That's the biggest issue for me, the same way it's going to be with Gaudreau.

 

BT was short-sighted with Gaudreau.

The idea that the captain should be the highest paid was nonsense.

Short term, yes, he was the most valuable defenseman and captain.

Long term, he was going to struggle, while Gaudreau will still be in his prime.

 

We joke about the Oilers and their contracts, but they have ended up being good for the value of the player they signed.

Nuge is a bit of an exception (don't think he's worth more than Backlund), but Hall and McD and Drai have reached the value within two years of signing.

[Irocke99]

BT must be set dead against signing bonuses like the type that Marner recieved? Is that the potential hold up.

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Leafs will have issues with Matthews and Marner's extensions.

That's the biggest issue for me, the same way it's going to be with Gaudreau.

 

BT was short-sighted with Gaudreau.

The idea that the captain should be the highest paid was nonsense.

Short term, yes, he was the most valuable defenseman and captain.

Long term, he was going to struggle, while Gaudreau will still be in his prime.

 

We joke about the Oilers and their contracts, but they have ended up being good for the value of the player they signed.

Nuge is a bit of an exception (don't think he's worth more than Backlund), but Hall and McD and Drai have reached the value within two years of signing.

 

Pretty difficult to state this without knowing each sides position in talks.

 

I've heard no one credible state that the Flames mandated they stay under the Gio cap, it's just pure speculation IMO.