What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

[cccsberg]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The QO is meaningless if the player re-signs before the end of the season.

The structire of his next deal will depend on the new CBA, SJS's future, and Meier's stats line.

 

The salary cap system was put in place to help out the GM's but they ruined the system.  Again.

Some know how to play, some don't.

If he re-signs early, sure you are correct.  But it effectively moves him to UFA status a year early, because if he waits the team has to qualify at over $10mm per season. 

[phoenix66]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The salary cap system was put in place to help out the GM's but they ruined the system.  Again.

Some know how to play, some don't.

I put the biggest blame on Buffalo..  Eichel got his $10M. Way too soon..   I at least get McDavid , but even he is overpaid in my opinion 

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

If he re-signs early, sure you are correct.  But it effectively moves him to UFA status a year early, because if he waits the team has to qualify at over $10mm per season. 

 

A QO without term?

The team won;t want to get to that point.

 

If he isn;t that good of a player then, they won't qualify him and he becomes a UFA.

Good luck getting 10m in that case.

 

If he's that good, he will sign a year early or get traded.

 

Back to Tkachuk.

Any deal less than 3 years is a risk to overpay later.

4 years takes him to UFA status.

Cap gurus like BT don;t want to have big deals expirinf at the same time.

He wants to spread out the pain.

3 years bumps into Gaudreau's next deal.

5 years bumps into Lindholm and possibly others yet to re-sign.

 

New deals aren't just about the player in question.  They have to take into account the market, the team's growth and projected cap in the future.

 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I put the biggest blame on Buffalo..  Eichel got his $10M. Way too soon..   I at least get McDavid , but even he is overpaid in my opinion 

 

McDavid set the market.

Tavares and Matthews were a result of it.

High signing bonus structured deals.

McD is being paid 86m in signing bonus, to Eichel's 14m.

Tavares is 70m in bonuses.

[The_People1]

Stars will get paid no matter what salary system is in place.  With a cap, it's the mid-tier players who will always get squeezed.  The guys in the $3.5 to $5.5 become a luxury that capped teams cannot enjoy.  Instead, teams will challenge the $1 or $2-mil guys to play at a $3.5 to $5.5-mil level... which, is doable.  What's not doable is asking the $3.5 to $5.5 mil guys to play like a $8-mil+ player.

[cccsberg]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

A QO without term?

The team won;t want to get to that point.

 

If he isn;t that good of a player then, they won't qualify him and he becomes a UFA.

Good luck getting 10m in that case.

 

If he's that good, he will sign a year early or get traded.

 

Back to Tkachuk.

Any deal less than 3 years is a risk to overpay later.

4 years takes him to UFA status.

Cap gurus like BT don;t want to have big deals expirinf at the same time.

He wants to spread out the pain.

3 years bumps into Gaudreau's next deal.

5 years bumps into Lindholm and possibly others yet to re-sign.

 

New deals aren't just about the player in question.  They have to take into account the market, the team's growth and projected cap in the future.

 

Meier gets to UFA a year early if they do not QO him, or gets a QO of $10mm&10%.  Great way to manipulate the contract to get to UFA early, and in return he signs for less.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Meier gets to UFA a year early if they do not QO him, or gets a QO of $10mm&10%.  Great way to manipulate the contract to get to UFA early, and in return he signs for less.

 

Or he signs early for a nice average salary.

If he doesn;t want to, they trade him.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

It seems that Toronto sports media (sportsnet at least) seem to be turning on Marner.  "Marner camp overestimating his value?",  "Meier significantly more productive than Marner",  "Why Marner isn't quite at the same level as Matthews or Tavares."

 

Is the media trying to justify the length of time it's taking to get it done, or trying to downplay Marner in case he holds out the start of the season? I would love to see all the other RFAs sign while leaving Marner and the Leafs twisting in the wind. I'm sure it's a waiting game to see who folds first but I don't believe that 6+ high level RFAs are ALL going to sit out the start of the season.

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

It seems that Toronto sports media (sportsnet at least) seem to be turning on Marner.  "Marner camp overestimating his value?",  "Meier significantly more productive than Marner",  "Why Marner isn't quite at the same level as Matthews or Tavares."

 

Is the media trying to justify the length of time it's taking to get it done, or trying to downplay Marner in case he holds out the start of the season? I would love to see all the other RFAs sign while leaving Marner and the Leafs twisting in the wind. I'm sure it's a waiting game to see who folds first but I don't believe that 6+ high level RFAs are ALL going to sit out the start of the season.

 

What we needed to see was Nylander sit all season.  But worse, he didn't just sit but he didn't even lose a penny from sitting.  They didn't even make him lose half a season's salary.  Complete loss for Dubas.  Why?  Because the Leafs were "close" and Dubas felt if he could bring in Nylander then that's their TDL move.

 

No reason to believe different with Marner.  He will sit until December and then Dubas gets too excited thinking he's one piece away from the Cup.  Then Dubas caves and gives Marner the same money and term as Matthews.

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What we needed to see was Nylander sit all season.  But worse, he didn't just sit but he didn't even lose a penny from sitting.  They didn't even make him lose half a season's salary.  Complete loss for Dubas.  Why?  Because the Leafs were "close" and Dubas felt if he could bring in Nylander then that's their TDL move.

 

No reason to believe different with Marner.  He will sit until December and then Dubas gets too excited thinking he's one piece away from the Cup.  Then Dubas caves and gives Marner the same money and term as Matthews.

 

That being said, is that going to drag out the other RFA signings?  It's been pretty quiet over here on the  Laine/Connor front.  Again I can't see the entire crop of RFAs waiting out until December.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

That being said, is that going to drag out the other RFA signings?  It's been pretty quiet over here on the  Laine/Connor front.  Again I can't see the entire crop of RFAs waiting out until December.

 

Not sure how it will play out but since Nylander didn't lose a penny for sitting until December, that's incentive for sitting until December.

 

In terms of the Jets, that's two RFAs that if they don't sign will hamper team results and could cause them to miss the playoffs.  So, i think the Jets have urgency to get something done.  Marner can sit while Nylander plays in his spot with Tavares.  And Tkachuk... well, we have too many LWs that we could audition some of them with more minutes like Mangiapane and Jankowski on LW.

[cross16]

Tkachuk's agent:

 

Quote

 

“We took an approach where we would be really proactive and progressive with Calgary,” Meehan told TVA Sports. “We started early and we set a position, we really didn’t have to wait. We formulated a position that we thought would be fair and we gave that to Calgary probably [in] the early part of June.

“We’re involved in negotiations right now but as far as I’m concerned, it’s not a waiting game. We’ve made a decision in terms of what we think is fair and relevant for the player and we’re working with Calgary now.”

 

Quote

One thing Meehan does not anticipate is a standoff similar to one the Leafs had with William Nylander where he ended up signing before the 5 p.m. ET RFA deadline on Dec. 1. “The worst thing you want is a Nylander kind of scenario where the player is out until December, that’s not beneficial for the player or the club.”

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/matthew-tkachuks-agent-gave-fair-offer-flames-june/

[travel_dude]

The way I interpret the situation is that the deal is waiting for the cap clearing.

The Flames know what they have to get to or at least what they have to get to cap wise.

You sign him today, and every GM will offer you crap (or hang up the phone) when you are talking about Frolik or Janko or Brodie or whatever.

 

[cross16]

For me there wasn't much to see here. Pretty standard media posturing from the Agent and what you would expect him to say at this point if the sides are understanding it's a process.

 

Only thing I take away from it is there was really no negative remarks or connotation to it which tells me the negotiations are proceeding without angst or frustration. 

[GM_3300]

I would prefer to see a  5 year deal at 7.50 AAV. The next 3 seasons are crucial if the Flames see themselves in a position to win a SC somewhere in this timeframe. If the team and situation after 3 season remains strong competitively we still have Tkachuk for a few more seasons.

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

The way I interpret the situation is that the deal is waiting for the cap clearing.

The Flames know what they have to get to or at least what they have to get to cap wise.

You sign him today, and every GM will offer you crap (or hang up the phone) when you are talking about Frolik or Janko or Brodie or whatever.

 

 

I know but at the same time, it doesn't take a genius to see the Flames need to clear cap.  We may already be in that situation and that's why we are unable to move Frolik.  Maybe teams are asking us to give them a 3rd rounder to eat Frolik.

[cross16]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know but at the same time, it doesn't take a genius to see the Flames need to clear cap.  We may already be in that situation and that's why we are unable to move Frolik.  Maybe teams are asking us to give them a 3rd rounder to eat Frolik.

 

Agreed. I don't really agree with the notion that this deal is being held up due to cap or trades for the reasons you stated. If fans on message borad can see the cap and do the math why don't other GMs? I have no doubt Treliving is working deals to both improve the team and clear cap but I don't think that is why Tkachuk is unsigned. He signed Hanifin on Aug 30th, Monahan on Aug 19th and he let Gaudreau to till October. This is how he works, and how most GMs are working now. Time can be an asset in negotiations so why not use it?

 

The cap issue is also being a little overblown. Another comment that stuck out in that article is how Meehan mentioned that the Aho offer sheet "confirmed" the market. The Flames could sign Tkachuk today with the cap space they have and still woudln't be even using the 10% overage. Clearing cap is more about adding some depth and breathing room for the season, not about getting Tkachuk signed. 

 

The Stone buyout now means that neither Frolik nor Brodie HAVE to go for cap reasons. I think the Flames only need to clear about around 2 mill and more depending on their target for depth on D. They have the option of moving people like Czarnik or Jankowski in order to free up room as well so there are options out there. Retaining salary on Frolik is an option too and all those discussion take time. 

 

[Horsman1]

On 8/13/2019 at 9:36 AM, travel_dude said:

 

A QO without term?

The team won;t want to get to that point.

 

If he isn;t that good of a player then, they won't qualify him and he becomes a UFA.

Good luck getting 10m in that case.

 

If he's that good, he will sign a year early or get traded.

 

Back to Tkachuk.

Any deal less than 3 years is a risk to overpay later.

4 years takes him to UFA status.

Cap gurus like BT don;t want to have big deals expirinf at the same time.

He wants to spread out the pain.

3 years bumps into Gaudreau's next deal.

5 years bumps into Lindholm and possibly others yet to re-sign.

 

New deals aren't just about the player in question.  They have to take into account the market, the team's growth and projected cap in the future.

 

cap gurus like treliving?? seriously?? he's got one hell of a mess of players that don't fit together /aren't properly structured for position and a roster that is immovable/tradable/ waiverable and are capped out.. Treliving has royally screwed this team for years to come.. yes.. there are pieces.. but far from being a team.. not to mention we have a 6 million dollar part time 4th line left winger

 

[cross16]

Good perspective from agent Allan Walsh and an article about why the landscaping is changing for RFAs and why it's them pushing for shorter deals.

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Agreed. I don't really agree with the notion that this deal is being held up due to cap or trades for the reasons you stated. If fans on message borad can see the cap and do the math why don't other GMs? I have no doubt Treliving is working deals to both improve the team and clear cap but I don't think that is why Tkachuk is unsigned. He signed Hanifin on Aug 30th, Monahan on Aug 19th and he let Gaudreau to till October. This is how he works, and how most GMs are working now. Time can be an asset in negotiations so why not use it?

 

The cap issue is also being a little overblown. Another comment that stuck out in that article is how Meehan mentioned that the Aho offer sheet "confirmed" the market. The Flames could sign Tkachuk today with the cap space they have and still woudln't be even using the 10% overage. Clearing cap is more about adding some depth and breathing room for the season, not about getting Tkachuk signed. 

 

The Stone buyout now means that neither Frolik nor Brodie HAVE to go for cap reasons. I think the Flames only need to clear about around 2 mill and more depending on their target for depth on D. They have the option of moving people like Czarnik or Jankowski in order to free up room as well so there are options out there. Retaining salary on Frolik is an option too and all those discussion take time. 

 

 

Gaudreau was a weird signing.

The Gio cap existed.

It took so long because BT was emphatic about keeping Gio as the top paid player, or at the most tied for the highest.

I heard that Gaudreau actually stepped into the middle because he didn't want to miss any games.

 

Whether or not BT has to get rid of cap remains to be seen.

Sure every GM knows the situation.

They do not know the exact amount he needs to shed, if any.

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

Official Flames Will Support as New logo Representing there 40 yrs in the league that ice was officially layed as there is a video of it on the main page

[redfire11]

I think the best scenario for signing Tkachuk would be matching an offer sheet of 7.5 to 7.75 mil. This would allow us to spend to our max of what we expect Tkachuk would get and also would pacify fans and current Flame players. This also would show going forward in negotiations with future RFA's that BT is not a TML Dubass.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I think the best scenario for signing Tkachuk would be matching an offer sheet of 7.5 to 7.75 mil. This would allow us to spend to our max of what we expect Tkachuk would get and also would pacify fans and current Flame players. This also would show going forward in negotiations with future RFA's that BT is not a TML Dubass.

 

Why would any team do that lowball offer?

Aho got one that had attractive terms and it was closer to 9m.

BT would love it.

Tkachuk would never sign for that little.

 

[redfire11]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Why would any team do that lowball offer?

Tkachuk would never sign for that little.

BT could be firm on 7 and Tkachuk  8m  a season. Other teams would know this hence enticing Tkachuk to an Aho type offer.

 

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Aho got one that had attractive terms and it was closer to 9m.

BT would love it.

Aho got 8.4 with a huge chunk of it up front. Teams could see Calgary as vulnerable with cash up front with the Flame Org. putting out big $'s for the new arena. Show a kid 20m up front and they will be scrambling for a pen. 

I would take Aho at 8.4 all day long over Tkachuk at 7.5.

[cross16]

There has to be motivation by both the player and the other team to pursue an offer sheet, and that team has to reasonably believe they've got a shot at the player. Calgary has room to mach that offer and Tkachuk has made all indications that he wants to stay in Calgary at least for this deal. 

 

I don't see a team pursuing an offer sheet with him. It doesn't really make sense.