ABC923 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 So far today we have seen Taylor Hall traded to New Jersey for Adam Larsson, PK Subban traded for Shea Webber, and now Stamkos has apparently come to terms with the lightning. What else is in store for us today?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Quick! Offer Engellend for McDavid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Love it as a hockey fan. This is better than probably the last 3/4 trade deadline combined. Man do i feel for Habs fans though, their proud franchise is being run into the ground. I'm not even a Subban fan and that is a straight up HORRIBLE deal for them. Maybe Weber of 3 years ago but the Weber now? for Subban? Geez.... On top of giving a 3rd line player a 6 year contract? I hoenslty think the Habs are about to head to the basement and stay there. They are in bad shape for years to come IMO and i'm not sure even Price can rescue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Love it as a hockey fan. This is better than probably the last 3/4 trade deadline combined. Man do i feel for Habs fans though, their proud franchise is being run into the ground. I'm not even a Subban fan and that is a straight up HORRIBLE deal for them. Maybe Weber of 3 years ago but the Weber now? for Subban? Geez.... On top of giving a 3rd line player a 6 year contract? I hoenslty think the Habs are about to head to the basement and stay there. They are in bad shape for years to come IMO and i'm not sure even Price can rescue them. Maybe he thought he needed a dman back, but now I find it hrd to believe Hall to Montreal couldnt get Subban done lol Stamkos staying in Florida makes me happy tho..good to see a player turning down money and staying loyal..good news story there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Maybe he thought he needed a dman back, but now I find it hrd to believe Hall to Montreal couldnt get Subban done lol Stamkos staying in Florida makes me happy tho..good to see a player turning down money and staying loyal..good news story there Oh I don't doubt he wanted a dman in return. Take Subban out of that D Core and its pretty horrible on paper..... But the best he can do is Shea Weber and his contract? Bergevin clearly doens't like Subban at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Oh I don't doubt he wanted a dman in return. Take Subban out of that D Core and its pretty horrible on paper..... But the best he can do is Shea Weber and his contract? Bergevin clearly doens't like Subban at all. Totally rediculous. Why didn't they just do Subban for Hall? At least they would have addressed an area of weakness instead of just getting weaker, and the oil would have gotten fair value for Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 The Fan just made a good point..for those 2 trades to happen back to back like that, likely PC was after either dman (webber, Subban) and both went south he went to plan C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Oh I don't doubt he wanted a dman in return. Take Subban out of that D Core and its pretty horrible on paper..... But the best he can do is Shea Weber and his contract? Bergevin clearly doens't like Subban at all. They both seem like pretty big rip offs to me. I like larsson but I dont think that hall for larsson trade makes sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Oh I don't doubt he wanted a dman in return. Take Subban out of that D Core and its pretty horrible on paper..... But the best he can do is Shea Weber and his contract? Bergevin clearly doens't like Subban at all. The fact that they were even taking calls on PK is an indication that the GM is out to lunch. He is loved by the fans and is in the Gio category for their team. I wonder if his donation to Montreal children's hospital care will stay there. He's a classy guy, so I doubt it changes anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I now have more confidence BT can trade Wideman AND get something in return if we act now. How Wideman and a second for Hedman, no salary retained? Maybe the oil will give us next year's first? Why not, it's Wicked Wednesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 The fact that they were even taking calls on PK is an indication that the GM is out to lunch. He is loved by the fans and is in the Gio category for their team. I wonder if his donation to Montreal children's hospital care will stay there. He's a classy guy, so I doubt it changes anything. It's no secret I think that Bergevin is not a big PK fan. Refused to give him a long term deal until he got backed into a corner and started taking trade calls rigth before his NMC/NTC kicked in. I don't think Therrien or Bergevin is a Subban fan and I think they got tired of his play in his own end. I'm actually not a Subban fan either and If I were Bergevin i'd move him too. But I woudln't trade him for a soon to be 31 year old dman with that many miles on the chasis who is under contract for the next 10 years. I'm sure Edmonton and Montreal discussed Hall for Subban but I doubt very much Montreal wanted to do that. As I said Montreal's defence isn't very good to begin with and if you take Subban out of there its downright scary and they really don't have any young players that can step in and take over for Subban. I think if you move Subban you needed a dman in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Totally rediculous. Why didn't they just do Subban for Hall? At least they would have addressed an area of weakness instead of just getting weaker, and the oil would have gotten fair value for Hall. The deal must have done south, but I fail to think how that could have been. Even if Montreal demanded much more, it would have made more sense than this. This thread is entitled appropriately because the Subban and Hall deals are completely insane. ETA: Having said all of this, I do believe that Hall is a cancer on the team, and I suspect many other GMs know as much at this point. Perhaps nobody wanted him despite his offensive prowess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I think that it's indicative of the Oilers' value around the league. Arguably, of the assets that could realistically have been traded, Hall carried the most value. He was traded on the same day as Weber and Subban, and all he fetched was Larsson. Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkRaving Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I think both trades are lop-sided, but the Subban trade is downright puzzling. Chiarelli got fleeced, but at least I can understand why he made the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I still consider Weber a top 10 Dman in the NHL despite his drop off in play but his contract is horrible because he's going to be 41 when it expires. Nashville did well to get rid of Weber for a Dman of equal value, younger, and more dynamic. Subban is a love/hate kind of player because he's obviously more offense than defense but in today's NHL, those fast D are so valuable. Subban is arguably the best D in the league at carrying the puck up the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I still consider Weber a top 10 Dman in the NHL despite his drop off in play but his contract is horrible because he's going to be 41 when it expires. Nashville did well to get rid of Weber for a Dman of equal value, younger, and more dynamic. Subban is a love/hate kind of player because he's obviously more offense than defense but in today's NHL, those fast D are so valuable. Subban is arguably the best D in the league at carrying the puck up the ice. The part that shocked me most is Nashville taking the chance on big recapture hits if Weber retires before the contract ends. I see the 2 as roughly (I give the edge to Weber for now same as TC) equal. PK has the bigger cap hit but is younger while Weber has the longer contract. Both teams still have a #1 D after the deal & both seem happy so it was a hockey trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Personally I think Montreal won this trade. I think the Subban contract was is one of the worst in the league and Montreal got out of it. Plus they got the best defense man in the league in Weber. Feel sorry for Nashville but am happy for the Canadian team. Really happy Edmonton got fleeced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Personally I think Montreal won this trade. I think the Subban contract was is one of the worst in the league and Montreal got out of it. Plus they got the best defense man in the league in Weber. Feel sorry for Nashville but am happy for the Canadian team. Really happy Edmonton got fleeced. Not anymore my friend, montreal for sure got fleeced in this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 In terms of a hockey trade, edmonton got fleeced pure and simple, but the Oilers unfortunately will be the big winners. Hall had to go for this team to ever turn the corner. He was the face of the losing culture. Not his fault, but true nonetheless. Just like how the flames had ti get rid of Iggy to turn the corner, he was the face of the country club. They certainly could have gotten more, but what PC wont say publicly is it was imperative Hall be gone by next season, they would have eventually taken picks if they had to. Montreal I dont understand, obviously a culture change as well . no other explanation I now have Uber respect for Steven Stamkos. He left literally millions on the table to stay in Tampa. Loyalty to his team outweighed money. You just dont see that anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkRaving Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 The part that shocked me most is Nashville taking the chance on big recapture hits if Weber retires before the contract ends. I see the 2 as roughly (I give the edge to Weber for now same as TC) equal. PK has the bigger cap hit but is younger while Weber has the longer contract. Both teams still have a #1 D after the deal & both seem happy so it was a hockey trade. Help me understand this. I saw something similar posted elsewhere and I thought maybe it was a typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Not anymore my friend, montreal for sure got fleeced in this trade. Flamboyancy will only last a few short years. Hard work, dedication, a person that does his job GREAT day in day out (every game) will last decades. Montreal the definite winner in this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 The points are there with Weber, but his underlying stas and his defensive game have started to erode the last couple seasons. Actually for all the flack he takes defensivley, form myself included, PK Subban actually does a better job of limiting shots against then Weber does. I think Montreal might win this trade for a season or 2 but i'm of the opinion Weber is on the downsize of his career. Given how far away I think Montreal is from being a contender I don't think trading your best player at 27 years old to maximize 1 or 2 seasons of an asset makes alot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Help me understand this. I saw something similar posted elsewhere and I thought maybe it was a typo. For the 1st 4 years of his contract Shea Weber was paid $14 million but carried a cap hit of 7.857 resulting in the Preds gaining 6.143 in available space each year. The next 2 were 12 mill with cap hit the same so 4.0143 cap space savings. That's almost 33 million in extra cap room over 6 years. In 2018-19 his salary drops to 6 million for 4 years, 3 for 1 & 1 for 4 so paying back the excess cap space begins. The cap recapture (aka the Luongo Rule) is meant to eliminate the cap advantage of outrageously front loaded contracts so if a player retires before completing the full contract the team(s) that benefited (even if the player is traded) receive a cap penalty in the years following retirement according to the amount of relief received divided by the years of savings. The penalty is applied every year divided by the years left on the contract following retirement to make sure the team(s) pay back any cap relief received. When Homer submitted that OS the Preds matched it was loaded with landmines. ***************************************************************************************************** I hope that explains it Bud. If not just ask about any points that I didn't clarify & I'll do my best to clear those up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 Team Canada still seems to have more faith in Shea Weber as he was 1 of the 1st 16 players named for the 2016 World Cup of Hockey while PK Subban didn't make the additions list. Barring injuries to the D he was passed by again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkRaving Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Thanks FF52. You've explained it well. Just so I'm absolutely clear, Weber will continue to impact the Preds cap until his contract expires 10 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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