ABC923 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: That's a flawed stat. It's overall, not PP. Suggesting that 5v5 shots are the same as PP shots is flawed. Very rarely do you have time or space to set up in the O-zone the way you can on a PP. It's true this is the overall stats, but there is a likely correlation between 5v5 shooting success and PP shooting success. Given the very limited amount of PP time seen by Stone, it's the only way to really compare apples to apples. Could Stone hit the net 50% of the time on the PP? Maybe, but if he gets that kind of boost it's plausible that others would as well. So I guess I would say don't focus on the actual percentages given, but more on the order of who has the higher shot through percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 26 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I'm fine with the 3F 2D units, assuming that one of them can get a shot through. Maybe it's just Gio in the center that creates the problem. If we are running 4F 1D, then Hammy is a better choice. But that 2nd guy that fills in at the point has to be someone other than Johnny. He gets bowled over under pressure. I would rather see JH on the right half-board. He's much more deadly there because he has a bigger target to shoot to. That puts Monahan in the slot and Tkachuk in the crease, lol. The extra forward is between the half-board and the blueline. The 2nd unit could just be the traditional one with Bennett-Backlund-RW and the two best D-men at getting a shot through. I agree with keeping JH off the point. Sure, it's a great spot to distribute the puck from, but he isn't a scoring threat from there which allows the defenders to protect against the pass. And if he bobbles the puck, the defenders have too easy a time running over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, ABC923 said: It's true this is the overall stats, but there is a likely correlation between 5v5 shooting success and PP shooting success. Given the very limited amount of PP time seen by Stone, it's the only way to really compare apples to apples. Could Stone hit the net 50% of the time on the PP? Maybe, but if he gets that kind of boost it's plausible that others would as well. So I guess I would say don't focus on the actual percentages given, but more on the order of who has the higher shot through percentage. The way I look at it is that Wideman used to score a lot on the PP because he was able to drive the puck at the net. We've seen Stone score from that spot. Wideman turned into "wide-man" in his even strength shots, so he was rarely used on the PP. Does the PP coach even look at percentages, zone entry success, or anything of that sort? Doubt it. If they did, they would notice that dump ins have little success on the Flames PP. Gaudreau and Hammy have good zone entries, and Hammy has one of the best shots on the team. He should be out there for every OT and getting the most PP minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHT Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, The_People1 said: In regards to the PP, we have a big shot in Stone but for whatever reason, don't use him much. It's clear we want to create everything down low and off the side boards but in order to make room, you have to make the other team respect your shot from the point. You have to stretch out their PK box. Not only we don't have a hard shot from the point, the Flames are too slow to shoot the puck. Whatever happened to one-timer? I dread every time we have PP because I would be frustrated, and then, the momentum swing the other way. I agree with Kipper14, that the PP coach need to be fired ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHT Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ABC923 said: Here are the flames D, in order of getting shots through. Hamilton: 48.9% Bartkowski: 47.6% Brodie: 44.6% Giordano: 44.3% Kulak: 39.5% Hamonic: 39% Stone: 38.4% Stone isn't just the worst defender at getting shots through, he's the worst on the team, full stop. He has a booming shot, but I doubt he would add much to our PP, given those numbers. Hamilton, on the other hand, has the highest success rate getting shots through, leads the defense in points, is one of the top possession drivers on the team, has the second highest shooting % for flames defenders, and plays about 40 seconds less per game on the PP than Brodie or Giordano. If any defender should get more time, it's probably him. Even if Stone can not get the puck through. At least he would injure the defender who is trying to block the shot. Stone would have provided that boom shot from the point. We got nothing from the point at this moment. At desperate time, comes desperate measure. GG is trying the same old predictable PP for way too long now and because of this stubbornness/stupidity that we have no success in our PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, DHT said: Even if Stone can not get the puck through. At least he would injure the defender who is trying to block the shot. Stone would have provided that boom shot from the point. We got nothing from the point at this moment. At desperate time, comes desperate measure. GG is trying the same old predictable PP for way too long now and because of this stubbornness/stupidity that we have no success in our PP. It's unlikely guys blocking the shot get injured these days, they all wear pretty good leg protection now. I see the point about needing a hard shot on the PP, but both Gio and Hammy have pretty good shots themselves. The fact they almost never use them tells me this is a coaching decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ABC923 said: It's unlikely guys blocking the shot get injured these days, they all wear pretty good leg protection now. I see the point about needing a hard shot on the PP, but both Gio and Hammy have pretty good shots themselves. The fact they almost never use them tells me this is a coaching decision. Every couple of days a player goes down to an injury from blocking a shot. If you hit him in the front part of the shin pads, then fine. Back of the leg, in the boot, hand, whatever, you are going to feel it. That is beside the point. Gio rarely uses a one-timer now becuase he used to break his stick almost every time he teed it up. It's bad enough that his shots hit shinpads, but if he breaks his stick being the only guy on the point, then it's a breakaway the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Slap shots just aren't used all that much anymore and when they are they just aren't as effective as they used to be. The longer it takes to get your shot off the more likely it is going to get blocked. Defensemen who can get their shots away quickly are more likely to score or create rebounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Hahahaha! On the fan, they just talked about how last game was an anomaly then said it reminded them of game 3 vs Anaheim in the playoffs. Ive seen these guys do this before. It’s not an anomaly. We have a history, so gg should know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Gully's post game presser... https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/post-game-gulutzan-010218/t-277437092/c-57279303 Essentially what was said (@1:44) In response to whether any changes were going to be made for the upcoming game against the Hawks... "Nope, um, nope, um, I thought we, we have to stick to, t, t, t, to the program, we have to ssssstay the course, we have to dig a little deeper, n an get it the, dirty areas a little bit more but, you know there's, you go through these things I mean two weeks ago we're talking about a seven game winning streak, the t. top two teams in the National Hockey League just walked in here, (shrug), I thought we could have won both games but we didn't, and then we have to take th, tho, that's, the stuff outta that game, eliminate some of the stuff, and add, some of the harder stuff" For a coach responding to the press and trying to give answers that instill confidence in the fan base, the team, the teams upper management and ownership, it was lacking substance and veracity to say the least... Gully is starting to come apart at the seams... and that can only have a negative effect on the team, both in the dressing room and out on the ice... So there's that, and the fact that he doesn't seem to have any kind of solid plan on how to deal constructively with the problems and is likely too stubborn to make the necessary changes to "the program" because the team has to "stay the course"... I am disappointed, but not surprised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 At some point, you have to start Rittich. He's going to have a stinker every once in awhile. He owned up to letting in some squeakers last night, but he was creating some of the bad play on his passing. I'm really just questioning two things about the coaching, and it's not necessarily Gully. 1) You have two goalies that play well. What is the criteria for playing a game? Practice looks good? 9/10 go to starter? Ask the starter? 2) At what point do you call a time out, change the goalie out for a breather, or give him the hook? The last games called for one or all of those things to occur. Timeout are like cap space. They are only useful if you use them during the game (or season). Holding them with less than 2 minutes makes no sense since goals are reviewed anyway. An off-side challenge is so infrequently used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 26 minutes ago, Carty said: Gully's post game presser... https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/post-game-gulutzan-010218/t-277437092/c-57279303 Essentially what was said (@1:44) In response to whether any changes were going to be made for the upcoming game against the Hawks... "Nope, um, nope, um, I thought we, we have to stick to, t, t, t, to the program, we have to ssssstay the course, we have to dig a little deeper, n an get it the, dirty areas a little bit more but, you know there's, you go through these things I mean two weeks ago we're talking about a seven game winning streak, the t. top two teams in the National Hockey League just walked in here, (shrug), I thought we could have won both games but we didn't, and then we have to take th, tho, that's, the stuff outta that game, eliminate some of the stuff, and add, some of the harder stuff" For a coach responding to the press and trying to give answers that instill confidence in the fan base, the team, the teams upper management and ownership, it was lacking substance and veracity to say the least... Gully is starting to come apart at the seams... and that can only have a negative effect on the team, both in the dressing room and out on the ice... So there's that, and the fact that he doesn't seem to have any kind of solid plan on how to deal constructively with the problems and is likely too stubborn to make the necessary changes to "the program" because the team has to "stay the course"... I am disappointed, but not surprised... I thought Smith looked tired and sloppy last game and would have given Rittich the start against TB. I can understand as a coach wanting to play your best goalie against the best teams but as we just witnessed when tired your best goalie isn't at his best. Rittich should get more starts at this time of the season IMO he has been solid and if we need Smith at his best leading into the final stretch. These last 5 games hurt because they were all very winnable games. They need to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and get back at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I thought Smith looked tired and sloppy last game and would have given Rittich the start against TB. Hard to say what happened with Smith last night, but he was not his usual self, maybe he wasn't feeling good, but for whatever the reason was, he was off his game... Smith should have been pulled after the Bolts 4th goal... Rittich made 3 saves on 4 shots... But he got thrown into what was a 3 ring circus in the D zone by then, hard to say what might have happened if he got the start, but I would have to guess the the breakdowns that happened in the D zone would not have been prevented by it, as it also happens when he is in the net,,, and the finger points at 2 things for that happening... Coaching and team leadership... 25 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Rittich should get more starts at this time of the season IMO he has been solid and if we need Smith at his best leading into the final stretch Agreed...and it should be obvious to Gully as well... 27 minutes ago, MAC331 said: These last 5 games hurt because they were all very winnable games Not trying to be picky, but it's 6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 37 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I thought Smith looked tired and sloppy last game and would have given Rittich the start against TB. I can understand as a coach wanting to play your best goalie against the best teams but as we just witnessed when tired your best goalie isn't at his best. Rittich should get more starts at this time of the season IMO he has been solid and if we need Smith at his best leading into the final stretch. These last 5 games hurt because they were all very winnable games. They need to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and get back at it. In the VGK game, the coach said he was in shock in the last minutes of play. In the Tampa game, he left Smith in well past his expiry date. At what point does the coach have to make a decision to impact the game? A game-tying goal with 1:46 to play? Ten seconds of play later when they go up a goal? In a game where they give up the tying goal in 12 seconds of the 3rd? In two games the Flames have fallen apart because of a single goal scored. In the first game, a time out would have settled the team down. In the second game, recognizing that your All Start goalie is struggling when he lets in 4 for the first time in months. Not rocket science. EDIT: Sorry but I forgot to mention this. Every line but the 3rd line played well. All were rewarded with goals. The 4th line played such a dominant 1st period, they could have scored at least one more with a few extra minutes. Janko's line was buried all night. Fix this line please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 20 minutes ago, travel_dude said: At what point does the coach have to make a decision to impact the game? That process should start before the game and continue until the final horn... But a coach also has to be both capable and willing to to that... I'm really starting to think that if Gully wants to continue to be a coach in the NHL, he could use another couple of seasons as an assistant under a coach that understands how to adapt "the program" and communicate with the players to try and get the team to play to win consistently... Not "stay the course" when it is failing miserably... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 This tweet from a hockey blogger (a bit harsh but somewhat true) that follows fancy stats a lot: Kent WilsonVerified account @Kent_Wilson As for coaching tonight. GG should have pullied his goalie earlier, called a TO when his team started to collapse and not start each period with a line that features two of the worst ES players on the roster. You have a 4-2 lead. Your 4th line has just scored after the most dominant shift I have seen the Flames play in some time. Next shift the Janko line that gets scored upon within 22 seconds. Score 4-3. Third period, start with that same line and 12 seconds later it 4-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: This tweet from a hockey blogger (a bit harsh but somewhat true) Harsh?... I'm starting to think that Gully couldn't match lines even if it was laid out for him like they used to do on Sesame Street... Gully needs to take a look at who should be on the ice, and of equal importance, who shouldn't be in some situations... Maybe Gully needs keep it simple and start saying to himself "one of these things just doesn't belong here"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 At the very least, can GG inform the team that passing to the goaltender, except when it is absolutely necessary, should not happen? At some point, you know it is going to burn you. I thought Frolik was trying to pass that one to Smith. Of course, Smith thought that Brodie would take it, and that makes sense, because SMITH IS A FRICKEN GOALIE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: At the very least, can GG inform the team that passing to the goaltender, except when it is absolutely necessary, should not happen? At some point, you know it is going to burn you. I thought Frolik was trying to pass that one to Smith. Of course, Smith thought that Brodie would take it, and that makes sense, because SMITH IS A FRICKEN GOALIE! Frolik said after that game that he was trying to pass to Brodie on that play, and that's what it looked like to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Frolik said after that game that he was trying to pass to Brodie on that play, and that's what it looked like to me. Perhaps, but I wouldn't admit trying to pass the puck to the goaltender in the defensive zone if we got scored upon. If he was trying to pass it to Brodie, then why was he so angry with himself afterwards? The blame should have been placed on Brodie. Nevertheless, I think that the point still holds. Don't pass it to Smith and try to keep the puck away from your net. It is not uncommon for them to pass it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said: Perhaps, but I wouldn't admit trying to pass the puck to the goaltender in the defensive zone if we got scored upon. If he was trying to pass it to Brodie, then why was he so angry with himself afterwards? The blame should have been placed on Brodie. Nevertheless, I think that the point still holds. Don't pass it to Smith and try to keep the puck away from your net. It is not uncommon for them to pass it to him. Passing it back to the D when up the boards is not looking like a good option is a part of the possession game that BT and GG want us to play. He could have just chipped/shot it up the boards but you lose possession that way. So he passed it back to the D like they have done a hundred times before this season. All a part of our possession game/ system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 10 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: Passing it back to the D when up the boards is not looking like a good option is a part of the possession game that BT and GG want us to play. He could have just chipped/shot it up the boards but you lose possession that way. So he passed it back to the D like they have done a hundred times before this season. All a part of our possession game/ system. IF that's the system (yes, it is), then why was Brodie doing a flyby? For that matter, why was Brodie ahead of the play and had to skate back. If we are a possession team, then why do the D-men constantly throw passes at players on the boards 30 feet away for a tip-in? It's their only outlet many times, but I don't get it. Possession play only seems to happen when we enter the zone on a PP. Maybe that's because we can;t manage more than three passes on a play without losing the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 Hate to ever wander down this road but here we go... I wonder about Dan Bylsma, not necessarily as a head coach here but as a member of the staff. Buffalo was dreadful last year, yet had the top PP under him. He's also won a Stanley Cup, something nobody on the staff has done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 53 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: Hate to ever wander down this road but here we go... I wonder about Dan Bylsma, not necessarily as a head coach here but as a member of the staff. Buffalo was dreadful last year, yet had the top PP under him. He's also won a Stanley Cup, something nobody on the staff has done If he had anything to do with that PP, I'd go for it. Would he accept an assistant position though? He probably gets paid more by Buffalo not to work than he would as an assistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said: Hate to ever wander down this road but here we go... I wonder about Dan Bylsma, not necessarily as a head coach here but as a member of the staff. Buffalo was dreadful last year, yet had the top PP under him. He's also won a Stanley Cup, something nobody on the staff has done Martin Gélinas - 1989-90 has a SC Ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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