The_People1 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 31 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Consider Mangiapane-Vesteeg-Brouwer. Stajan and Lazar sit. Glass and Freddie are waived. Play whoever is playing well. If we were able to trade Brouwer, then we could insert Lazar and actually build a functional 4th line. Mangiapane is playing well with Hathaway. I would call them both up and put them on a line together. Let Hamilton Center them. Sit the 3 old guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, cross16 said: I'm not sure I agree here. What top team do you know of that doesn't play within a structure and a pretty rigid structure? Pens just won 2 cups and are about as structured a team as you will see in the league. To me the teams that get away form the structure are the ones that wind up picking in the lottery, see 15-16 Calgary Flames. Also is that a problem with the structure or is that the players lack of intensity? I tend to link players standing alot more to motivation/execution then I do an issue with the system. For me the lack of offence comes down to 3 factors and it's not coaching. 1. Flames don't have great team speed so they don't transition through the neutral zone well and thus rely more on dump ins/methodical passes to gain the zone. When they gain the zone they have to stop up because they can't drive wide so it's challenging for them to generate odd man rushes. 2. They lack snipers or guys that can really shoot the puck. Lots of missed shots too. 3. They do a below average job of getting to high traffic scoring areas, front of the net, slot area as most of the players on the team I would say prefer to play more of a permiter game. They lack the power forward types who like to drive the net and create opportunities and instead would prefer to keep the puck and try to set up a play. I agree with what you have here so the question IMO becomes how do we make what we do have work better assuming no trades exist. The first obvious one for me is putting Tkachuk with Gaudreau and Monahan, give Monahan two feeders if he is our only sniper. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are also 2 constant threats themselves. Ferland, Backlund and Frolik suit each other IMO, they should be our primary shutdown line with secondary scoring ability, plenty of potential. The line that has to provide the boost in production is Bennett, Jankowski and Jagr. I don't necessarily agree with Peeps regarding the last line if it is Versteeg, Lazar and Brouwer, this is a secondary checking line that with Versteeg as a feeder should give us some scoring (not much) but some. This gets the personel in the right places and should tell the story the further we go along. Plus I think our defense will have more confidence to engage on offense if they know the forward lines can control more of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 14 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Mangiapane is playing well with Hathaway. I would call them both up and put them on a line together. Let Hamilton Center them. Sit the 3 old guys. LOL yeah that won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 14 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I agree with what you have here so the question IMO becomes how do we make what we do have work better assuming no trades exist. The first obvious one for me is putting Tkachuk with Gaudreau and Monahan, give Monahan two feeders if he is our only sniper. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are also 2 constant threats themselves. Ferland, Backlund and Frolik suit each other IMO, they should be our primary shutdown line with secondary scoring ability, plenty of potential. The line that has to provide the boost in production is Bennett, Jankowski and Jagr. I don't necessarily agree with Peeps regarding the last line if it is Versteeg, Lazar and Brouwer, this is a secondary checking line that with Versteeg as a feeder should give us some scoring (not much) but some. This gets the personel in the right places and should tell the story the further we go along. Plus I think our defense will have more confidence to engage on offense if they know the forward lines can control more of the game. No one is going to like this answer, but I think the best thing Gulutzan can do right now is be patient. Be patient with your lines, be Patient with a few players and tweak some of they usage in order to get some players going. I agree with Peeps that it would be great to get a youthful and fast 4th line but I think its pretty clear this organization isn't going to start burying 3 -4 million or more int he minors. So be patient, but where I have some sympathy for Gulutzan is its been tough to be patient because you've got too many nights where you have a few passengers that are dragging down your lines. Gulutzan can do a better job in certain elements but the players have to start getting some consistent efforts together too. The Flames 5 on 5 game has been very good the last 6-7 games and they have a shooting percentage below 6th percent. I think if they keep doing what they are doing it will come. Improving the special teams should be the bigger focus and from everything I've heard/seen it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, cross16 said: No one is going to like this answer, but I think the best thing Gulutzan can do right now is be patient. Be patient with your lines, be Patient with a few players and tweak some of they usage in order to get some players going. I agree with Peeps that it would be great to get a youthful and fast 4th line but I think its pretty clear this organization isn't going to start burying 3 -4 million or more int he minors. So be patient, but where I have some sympathy for Gulutzan is its been tough to be patient because you've got too many nights where you have a few passengers that are dragging down your lines. Gulutzan can do a better job in certain elements but the players have to start getting some consistent efforts together too. The Flames 5 on 5 game has been very good the last 6-7 games and they have a shooting percentage below 6th percent. I think if they keep doing what they are doing it will come. Improving the special teams should be the bigger focus and from everything I've heard/seen it is. If anyone is suggesting dumping Gully, I think it's because of the line usage, playing certain players, and concerns on the PP and PK. If anything it's Jerrard and Cameron that should be looking over their shoulders. The numbers were better earlier when there were more penalties taken and drawn per game. Now we have fewer and success/failure shows through more. Whether the execution of the PP/PK is the issue or the design of it is would be anyone's guess. Regardless, it needs to be fixed. As you mentioned 5v5 play is improving, but we are still losing games because of the special teams. Since the coaching staff usually get fired as a unit, I don't think you see that happen any time soon. Nor should it. Maybe mid-season if we are trending towards a lotto spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: If anyone is suggesting dumping Gully, I think it's because of the line usage, playing certain players, and concerns on the PP and PK. If anything it's Jerrard and Cameron that should be looking over their shoulders. I proposed this earlier and the more I think of it the more traction it gets " I wonder what it would take to pry Kevin Dineen out of Chicago to replace one of our assistant coaches. It would be interesting what changes he could bring to our PP. Also the Flame franchise grooming and adding a little honest pressure to GG. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 On 2017-10-31 at 5:39 PM, travel_dude said: If anyone is suggesting dumping Gully, I think it's because of the line usage, playing certain players, and concerns on the PP and PK. If anything it's Jerrard and Cameron that should be looking over their shoulders. The numbers were better earlier when there were more penalties taken and drawn per game. Now we have fewer and success/failure shows through more. Whether the execution of the PP/PK is the issue or the design of it is would be anyone's guess. Regardless, it needs to be fixed. As you mentioned 5v5 play is improving, but we are still losing games because of the special teams. Since the coaching staff usually get fired as a unit, I don't think you see that happen any time soon. Nor should it. Maybe mid-season if we are trending towards a lotto spot. I think we were hearing the same stuff last season about certain parts of our game not working and we should get rid of certain assistant coaches. These situations with PP and PK work themselves out, players get more used to each other on reads which results in better execution. Constant changes can sometimes be the worse thing coaches can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Well, if Mike Babcock can put his lines in a blender... lol Yikes! It almost sounds like I'm supporting double G... Look, I don't agree with some of his in-game coaching decisions, I don't like his favouritism to vets, and I think his body language and answers in media scrums don't breathe a lot of confidence in me of him as our coach... But, all is forgiven if he helps win us a cup! I will say I like redfire's idea of employing assistant coaches that have the potential to take over as a head coach - it keeps everyone accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrical_ace Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Why is Brouwer still on the first PP??? Idiocy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, electrical_ace said: Why is Brouwer still on the first PP??? Idiocy Same reason Versteeg is still on the PP !!! Pounding a square peg into a round hole. and GG's line matching What's with it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 On 11/2/2017 at 8:52 PM, redfire11 said: Same reason Versteeg is still on the PP !!! Pounding a square peg into a round hole. and GG's line matching What's with it??? On 11/2/2017 at 8:39 PM, electrical_ace said: Why is Brouwer still on the first PP??? Idiocy I mean versteeg has more powerplay points then mony, hamilton, are they going to be taken off the pp next? id love to hear your guys suggestions to "fix" the pp considering it was one of the best in the league last year, and a slow start isent the end of the world. The only real change the team should make is maybe putting ferland in front of the net instead of brouwer, but I think they like having the right shot option below the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHT Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 Brouwer should not be on PP, period! The opposition goalies should thank him because he keep blocking the puck from the point. Ferland, Tkachuk, or Monahan, should be in front of the net on PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 37 minutes ago, DHT said: Brouwer should not be on PP, period! The opposition goalies should thank him because he keep blocking the puck from the point. Ferland, Tkachuk, or Monahan, should be in front of the net on PP. LOL give me a break man, our players hitting brouwer with puck isent on brouwer. Mony is much more useful in the high slot, and tkachuk is on the 2nd unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: I mean versteeg has more powerplay points then mony, hamilton, are they going to be taken off the pp next? id love to hear your guys suggestions to "fix" the pp considering it was one of the best in the league last year, and a slow start isent the end of the world. The only real change the team should make is maybe putting ferland in front of the net instead of brouwer, but I think they like having the right shot option below the goal line. It is a concern that Versteeg has more points than Monahan on the PP. But he should have over Hamilton considering how much more time he gets. My biggest concern is the give aways on the PP from Versteeg. I will make a count tonight (hopefully won't have to dig out my abacus) suggestions: PP1: 1st line with Geo Brodie PP2: 2nd line with Kulak Hamilton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 https://www.nhl.com/video/stamkos-roofs-it-for-a-ppg/t-290940382/c-54235403 Watched a fair bit of the TB/CBJ game last night. Was very impressed with TB's first unit PP. They've got 3 one-time options that the opponent has to respect (Kucherov, Hedman, Stamkos) which allows the middle of the ice to open up, resulting in the Stamkos goal. Not sure the Flames have the personnel that can wire it like the 3 on TB, but it goes to show what the presence of a big shot (or 3) can do for a PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrical_ace Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 2 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: I mean versteeg has more powerplay points then mony, hamilton, are they going to be taken off the pp next? id love to hear your guys suggestions to "fix" the pp considering it was one of the best in the league last year, and a slow start isent the end of the world. The only real change the team should make is maybe putting ferland in front of the net instead of brouwer, but I think they like having the right shot option below the goal line. If you think that Troy Brouwer deserves to be on first power play? Then we will never agree on the recipe for success on this team’s specialty teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, electrical_ace said: If you think that Troy Brouwer deserves to be on first power play? Then we will never agree on the recipe for success on this team’s specialty teams. The coach feels he needs a RHS RW on the pp. There seems to be little room to maneuver from that thinking. This is not unlike his insistence to make sure his D pairings all play on their proper shooting side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: The coach feels he needs a RHS RW on the pp. There seems to be little room to maneuver from that thinking. This is not unlike his insistence to make sure his D pairings all play on their proper shooting side. I'm not sure that is the only reason as I heard him explain he like to give the opposition different looks from the PP. Brouwer is the lower down big body look and has done well in that area for his goals. Personally I would like to see more shots actually on the net from our PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said: The coach feels he needs a RHS RW on the pp. There seems to be little room to maneuver from that thinking. This is not unlike his insistence to make sure his D pairings all play on their proper shooting side. 1 hour ago, electrical_ace said: If you think that Troy Brouwer deserves to be on first power play? Then we will never agree on the recipe for success on this team’s specialty teams. Where did I say he deserves it? I said this was top pp time last year and obviously as deeds said they feel the need is there, so im not sure what you are critiquing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: The coach feels he needs a RHS RW on the pp. There seems to be little room to maneuver from that thinking. This is not unlike his insistence to make sure his D pairings all play on their proper shooting side. I think that Versteeg satisfies that requirement. He's playing that on the PP, except they deploy him on the point. I would rather they put a righty D-man on the first unit. I wouldn't even mind Stone there, because he can at least get a one-timer on net. Aside from that, I wish he would admit that Bart is not a capable NHL D-man. Seems to be expecting a stable #6 guy. He isn't. Hope Steinberg is wrong about Bart startng tonight, seeing that Hamonic is on IR until the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 Troy Brouwer didn't have 1 second of pp time tonight and was not on either PP unit. For what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 38 minutes ago, cross16 said: Troy Brouwer didn't have 1 second of pp time tonight and was not on either PP unit. For what it is worth. Yes good on GG hopefully his better decisions continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 8 hours ago, redfire11 said: Yes good on GG hopefully his better decisions continue. We have to remember it is also GG's job to get the most out of his players. I like that he recognizes when something isn't working and seeks other resolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YounGuns Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 I have to say that my patience with GG is really running thin. We've got too much talent on this team to be so poorly coached, we could potentially throw away the season, and I have little faith that Gully can coach us through a long playoff run. He just doesn't seem to have a grasp on who to play in which situations. Gully complains about special teams and the bottom six not being good enough, but he doesn't put guys in positions to succeed. It's not Brouwer's or Stajan's fault - they are too old and slow now, they'll never meet his expectations. That's why nobody else in the NHL counts on their 4th line to score PP goals, or expects their 6th defensemen to kill important penalties. Or expects a struggling 20 year old to switch between C and wing and have new line mates each week. Last year he had Hamilton on the 3rd D pairing for the first few months. And Chaisson was on the first line for months, despite doing nothing on it. He's just terrible at utilizing players - it's his biggest fault as a coach. Brouwer was practicing on the PP again today...why? That's absurd. We have far more skilled guys to deploy in that situation. Brouwer is a fine 4th liner, nothing else at this point though makes sense, and yet we have a lot of young skilled guys that are being forced to watch Stajan and Brouwer flounder, all the while at the expense of their development and confidence. Look at last game. Sure Brouwer only played 11 minutes, but when he was out there he was an absolute liability. First Gully puts Brouwer on the PK, then he came back with Brouwer's line right after the goal against us. Why? And has anyone else noticed how often Gully throws out our 4th liners WITH our 5th and 6th D men? And that's when we're at home and have last change. And the opposition is left licking their chops while they dance around our slow vets that for some reason GG wants to deploy at the expense of young talent. I think with Gully we'd still be able to make playoffs, I just think we have enough talent to make it despite him, but I don't have much faith in him to win any series. He just doesn't seem to be able to manage his roster like an NHL coach should be able to. It's infuriating to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 On 11/5/2017 at 10:09 AM, DirtyDeeds said: The coach feels he needs a RHS RW on the pp. There seems to be little room to maneuver from that thinking. This is not unlike his insistence to make sure his D pairings all play on their proper shooting side. One cannot give enough likes It is an insistence, it seems. I'm a bit bewildered, so reserve my opinion for when this gets deeper, imho. It's a 5 goal league. Taking away the slashes has been a boost in 8 goal games. Ironically, we can't score more than 2 too often regardless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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