Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

He is having a career year in Washington. Not sure we can afford what he would be asking(buying high). He is listed at RW but my memory says he was LW when he visted our barn while with the Blues.

I don't recall that at all him playing LW. He is a RHS that has played mostly RW even in STL.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I really dont see a fit long term for oshie here, id rather see us get a d man then sign oshie long term. Our pairings at forward need to be solidified with tkachuk moving alongside bennett then finding the right complimentary players to play alongside our top 9 players. Parenteau is a guy id target for next year on a short term deal to ride shotgun with JH and mony.

 

PAP is getting up there (34 this March).  I would make a trade for him now and go from there.  He works out, you re-sign him, or try.  He works out, he helps you in the playoff push.  Shouldn't cost that much.

 

A top 4 D is absolutely needed for next season.  It's harming up this year, but we aren't going to the cup finals anyway.  If there was no expansion draft, I would try to fix now.

Oshie is a good player to target in the off-season, but the cost will drive us close to the ceiling.

[AlbertaBoy12]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

PAP is getting up there (34 this March).  I would make a trade for him now and go from there.  He works out, you re-sign him, or try.  He works out, he helps you in the playoff push.  Shouldn't cost that much.

 

A top 4 D is absolutely needed for next season.  It's harming up this year, but we aren't going to the cup finals anyway.  If there was no expansion draft, I would try to fix now.

Oshie is a good player to target in the off-season, but the cost will drive us close to the ceiling.

I agree PAP is getting up there but it wouldnt be a long term thing, I would agree trade for him and if it works you sign him for one more year nothing wrong with that. I think oshie at 6 million per would cost us someone and hes not exaclty young anymore, id rather have a complimentary player or a top 4 D man this offseason, as you said that top 4 D man is a greater need.

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

PAP is getting up there (34 this March).  I would make a trade for him now and go from there.  He works out, you re-sign him, or try.  He works out, he helps you in the playoff push.  Shouldn't cost that much.

 

A top 4 D is absolutely needed for next season.  It's harming up this year, but we aren't going to the cup finals anyway.  If there was no expansion draft, I would try to fix now.

Oshie is a good player to target in the off-season, but the cost will drive us close to the ceiling.

I think everyone has to resist becoming to idealistic, this is why I would like to see GG further experiment with our core down the stretch. We will have a better picture of our cap situation once the expansion draft is over and real trading and signings can take place.

What if Brouwer gets taken in the expansion draft and BT uses Backlund in a trade to land either a goalie or top 4 defenseman  What if he can unload Stajan and Bouma ? Lots could and should happen between now and the start of next season.

[MAC331]

Just now, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree PAP is getting up there but it wouldnt be a long term thing, I would agree trade for him and if it works you sign him for one more year nothing wrong with that. I think oshie at 6 million per would cost us someone and hes not exaclty young anymore, id rather have a complimentary player or a top 4 D man this offseason, as you said that top 4 D man is a greater need.

Oshie is 30 not old by any means and has the experience this team needs to maintain. You can keep going short term however we don't have a player in the pipe for our top RW position for the foreseeable future. I could be wrong but I don't see Oshie costing the 6M everyone is tossing around and if he is BT can pass if he isn't a budget fit within the planning.

Question for you, how much do you see us spending on a top 4 partner for Brodie ?

[travel_dude]

35 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think everyone has to resist becoming to idealistic, this is why I would like to see GG further experiment with our core down the stretch. We will have a better picture of our cap situation once the expansion draft is over and real trading and signings can take place.

What if Brouwer gets taken in the expansion draft and BT uses Backlund in a trade to land either a goalie or top 4 defenseman  What if he can unload Stajan and Bouma ? Lots could and should happen between now and the start of next season.

 

The only way Brouwer gets claimed is if the Flames exposed him.  Even if exposed, there is not a certainty he gets claimed, with other players available that are more beneficial to a building club.  Kulak, Bart-man, even Bouma/Stajan or Shinkaruk, etc.  As much as we moan about him here, the Flames signed him for more than just his regular season stats.  

 

Unloading Stajan or Bouma is fine, but I can't see any reason to trade Backlund this summer.  He's finally reaching the heights the Flames hoped for when they drafted him. Not quite a Bergeron or Kesler, but the kind of center every team needs.  Untradeable?  Of course not.  As important to the Flames as a #1G or top 4D?  Not really, but the hole he leaves creates a big problem.  Immediate replacement is Stajan.  Nobody else is ready as far as we can tell.  Maybe Janko is that guy, but we won't know that unless we are forced o bring him up next season.

 

I think that BT can do some good things to help the club between now and next season.  Realistically, there is only so many things he can do with the assets and available cap.  Finding a top goalie.  Getting a top 4 capable defender.  Getting a top 6 RW.  Miracles happen, but most of that is going to come from dollar-for-dollar trades or UFA signings.         

 

[MAC331]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The only way Brouwer gets claimed is if the Flames exposed him.  Even if exposed, there is not a certainty he gets claimed, with other players available that are more beneficial to a building club.  Kulak, Bart-man, even Bouma/Stajan or Shinkaruk, etc.  As much as we moan about him here, the Flames signed him for more than just his regular season stats.  

 

Unloading Stajan or Bouma is fine, but I can't see any reason to trade Backlund this summer.  He's finally reaching the heights the Flames hoped for when they drafted him. Not quite a Bergeron or Kesler, but the kind of center every team needs.  Untradeable?  Of course not.  As important to the Flames as a #1G or top 4D?  Not really, but the hole he leaves creates a big problem.  Immediate replacement is Stajan.  Nobody else is ready as far as we can tell.  Maybe Janko is that guy, but we won't know that unless we are forced o bring him up next season.

 

I think that BT can do some good things to help the club between now and next season.  Realistically, there is only so many things he can do with the assets and available cap.  Finding a top goalie.  Getting a top 4 capable defender.  Getting a top 6 RW.  Miracles happen, but most of that is going to come from dollar-for-dollar trades or UFA signings.         

 

You don't think they will expose him ? I can see LV wanting him for the same reasons you are suggesting. You think the players you mention here would be more inviting to LV really, why would that be ? I don't bemoan having Brouwer at all but to have Frolik and want someone better for our top RW we would be best losing him.

What if the asking price for the RHSD or Goalie we seek involves Backlund ? Our reality if he does go is use Stajan as the 3rd line C and hope that Bennett take a giant step forward to C the other top line. I wouldn't be looking to Jankowski to step in and fill those skates alone.

I don't think any of this requires "miracles" just good planning and the right moves for trades or UFA signings. I agree with the dollar for dollar within the budget hasto play a part and so will quality in any deal which is why Backlund becomes the player to move. If you are looking at him asking for close to 5M or even 6M as some suggest you can maybe use him now to get a goalie such as Mrazek who has another year at 3M or a young defenseman like Pesce from CAR that strengthen us defensively.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You don't think they will expose him ? I can see LV wanting him for the same reasons you are suggesting. You think the players you mention here would be more inviting to LV really, why would that be ? I don't bemoan having Brouwer at all but to have Frolik and want someone better for our top RW we would be best losing him.

What if the asking price for the RHSD or Goalie we seek involves Backlund ? Our reality if he does go is use Stajan as the 3rd line C and hope that Bennett take a giant step forward to C the other top line. I wouldn't be looking to Jankowski to step in and fill those skates alone.

I don't think any of this requires "miracles" just good planning and the right moves for trades or UFA signings. I agree with the dollar for dollar within the budget hasto play a part and so will quality in any deal which is why Backlund becomes the player to move. If you are looking at him asking for close to 5M or even 6M as some suggest you can maybe use him now to get a goalie such as Mrazek who has another year at 3M or a young defenseman like Pesce from CAR that strengthen us defensively.

 

A couple of things.  First, I don't things the Flames wish to admit they made a mistake with Brouwer.  Second, I don't think it's a wise move if you plan on trying to get a player like Oshie; it sends the wrong message.  That's just an opinion, since a lot of teams will expose players you don't expect.  I just think they signed him for a reason nad those reasons are beyond what we have seen so far.

 

The reason I suggest that LV would not consider him is that he's a player a playoff bound team wants.  Stajan would be a better option than Brouwer anyway if they wanted leadership in their CGY selection.  LV also needs youth to build a team.  Depends who is available, but Kulak or Shinkaruk would be good choices.  Young enough to grow. Potential to be solid players in the future. 

[MAC331]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

A couple of things.  First, I don't things the Flames wish to admit they made a mistake with Brouwer.  Second, I don't think it's a wise move if you plan on trying to get a player like Oshie; it sends the wrong message.  That's just an opinion, since a lot of teams will expose players you don't expect.  I just think they signed him for a reason nad those reasons are beyond what we have seen so far.

 

The reason I suggest that LV would not consider him is that he's a player a playoff bound team wants.  Stajan would be a better option than Brouwer anyway if they wanted leadership in their CGY selection.  LV also needs youth to build a team.  Depends who is available, but Kulak or Shinkaruk would be good choices.  Young enough to grow. Potential to be solid players in the future. 

I couldn't disagree more with how you are viewing this with Brouwer. Opportunity doesn't come around at your convenience. Firstly Brouwer came available and we needed to shore up our RW side and got him to sign. If he has been a help this year say thx and let LV take him off our hands if they will. This is the nature of the business. I don't think Brouwer is going to be upset still making 4.5M playing for a GM he is familiar with again. Why would they want Stajan over Brouwer ? You wouldn't and I wouldn't select him if Brouwer was sitting there. We need way better for our top line than either Brouwer or Frolik if we want to get better as a team.

[AlbertaBoy12]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Oshie is 30 not old by any means and has the experience this team needs to maintain. You can keep going short term however we don't have a player in the pipe for our top RW position for the foreseeable future. I could be wrong but I don't see Oshie costing the 6M everyone is tossing around and if he is BT can pass if he isn't a budget fit within the planning.

Question for you, how much do you see us spending on a top 4 partner for Brodie ?

It really depends on how you look at it, I dont want a 30 year old oshie signed long term even at 5 million a year, thats just my point of view, unless you think hes going to be hossa and defy age, I just dont want it on this team for a ridiculous contract. 

 

It really depends ive suggested trading backlund to carolina for help on D, if the return was a guy like Pesce and something else for backlund id be all over that, id follow up that trade with an extension asap at a cap hit between 4 and 5 if possible, best part is the kid is exampt from the expansion draft.  I see backlund as very important to this team, but if that trade is available with a guy at forward coming the other way or a draft pick id definatly consider it. Id say that kind of trade would probably let us go out and sign someone like oshie, at which time id probably expose brouwer in the expansion draft, or maybe you expose stajan, sign a guy in free agency for a million bucks, see how janko does next year.

[MAC331]

18 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

It really depends on how you look at it, I dont want a 30 year old oshie signed long term even at 5 million a year, thats just my point of view, unless you think hes going to be hossa and defy age, I just dont want it on this team for a ridiculous contract. 

 

It really depends ive suggested trading backlund to carolina for help on D, if the return was a guy like Pesce and something else for backlund id be all over that, id follow up that trade with an extension asap at a cap hit between 4 and 5 if possible, best part is the kid is exampt from the expansion draft.  I see backlund as very important to this team, but if that trade is available with a guy at forward coming the other way or a draft pick id definatly consider it. Id say that kind of trade would probably let us go out and sign someone like oshie, at which time id probably expose brouwer in the expansion draft, or maybe you expose stajan, sign a guy in free agency for a million bucks, see how janko does next year.

Let me say this again, if you can get TJ Oshie for 5M x 5 sign him, if not walk away, 5 years goes by fast. Lose Brouwer and replace him with Pribyl on the 3rd line at 800K

Backlund for Pesce who is making 800k and a RFA 2018/19 season, maybe BT ask for some picks that helps with getting a goalie in trade.

Mrazek DET is 4M next year and a RFA the season after that, this would be a good situation for the Flames.

[AlbertaBoy12]

27 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Let me say this again, if you can get TJ Oshie for 5M x 5 sign him, if not walk away, 5 years goes by fast. Lose Brouwer and replace him with Pribyl on the 3rd line at 800K

Backlund for Pesce who is making 800k and a RFA 2018/19 season, maybe BT ask for some picks that helps with getting a goalie in trade.

Mrazek DET is 4M next year and a RFA the season after that, this would be a good situation for the Flames.

I wouldnt sign oshie for 5m x 5 thats way too much, 5 years does go by fast, but I dont really think hes what this team needs.

 

The question about a defenceman has probably been answered with the stone trade I wouldnt be suprised to see him locked up for a few years if he plays well here for the rest of the season.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Let me say this again, if you can get TJ Oshie for 5M x 5 sign him, if not walk away, 5 years goes by fast. Lose Brouwer and replace him with Pribyl on the 3rd line at 800K

Backlund for Pesce who is making 800k and a RFA 2018/19 season, maybe BT ask for some picks that helps with getting a goalie in trade.

Mrazek DET is 4M next year and a RFA the season after that, this would be a good situation for the Flames.

 

Oshie at $5m is worth considering.  If you can get him for that in free agency.  

Backlund for Peche doesn't work since it leaves us a top 6 center short.  Backlund for Rask gives us a longer term for a similar results player.

We have to solve the goalie situation prior to the draft, as we have one to expose, but none to protect. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oshie at $5m is worth considering.  If you can get him for that in free agency.  

The dollar amount isent the problem, it would be the term that I think would kill us. If we are going to sign oshie we might as well trade backlund this summer right after signing oshie, because theres no way we can keep all these players.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oshie at $5m is worth considering.  If you can get him for that in free agency.  

Backlund for Peche doesn't work since it leaves us a top 6 center short.  Backlund for Rask gives us a longer term for a similar results player.

We have to solve the goalie situation prior to the draft, as we have one to expose, but none to protect. 

I don't think Oshie is quite a 6M dollar player and I would go as high as 5.5M

We have Cs to replace Backlund in Bennett, Monahan, Stajan and Jankowski, use him for a defenseman or a goaltender, I said as much. If a goaltender I would go for Mrazek if he is available. I don't think you get Rask out of BOS.

Do you have to protect one ?

[MAC331]

37 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

The dollar amount isent the problem, it would be the term that I think would kill us. If we are going to sign oshie we might as well trade backlund this summer right after signing oshie, because theres no way we can keep all these players.

Trading Backlund has been part of the discussion. I don't think 5 years is long when we have nobody in site within our prospect pool to play that top RW position. Even if you drafted a top talent he may take 3 years to give you the production Oshie could on our top line. Plus Oshie will demand some of the attention away from Gaudreau.

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think everyone has to resist becoming to idealistic, this is why I would like to see GG further experiment with our core down the stretch. We will have a better picture of our cap situation once the expansion draft is over and real trading and signings can take place.

What if Brouwer gets taken in the expansion draft and BT uses Backlund in a trade to land either a goalie or top 4 defenseman  What if he can unload Stajan and Bouma ? Lots could and should happen between now and the start of next season.

 

Then our team is significantly worse. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Then our team is significantly worse. 

Which part ? if we were to lose Brouwer and add someone like Oshie, we are better for it. If we trade Backlund and add let's say Mrazek, we are better for it. Backlund is one of the only quality trade chip we have and we have Stajan, Bennett and Jankowski to compensate for him at the position.

[DirtyDeeds]

not sure what all this trade Backs talk has to do with GG coach topic.

 

For the record Backs's play this year has pretty much made him untradeable in my eyes.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Which part ? if we were to lose Brouwer and add someone like Oshie, we are better for it. If we trade Backlund and add let's say Mrazek, we are better for it. backlund is one of the only quality trade chip we have and we have Stajan, Bennett and Jankowski to compensate for him at the position.

 

We are trading our best defensive center and someone who gets all defensive zone time. I don't buy that part. But yes, Brouwer for Oshie would be better. 

 

If we cant defend then what? We hope the goalie saves it for us like we've done the last few years?

 

we still have some poor team D from time to time. 

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

not sure what all this trade Backs talk has to do with GG coach topic.

 

For the record Backs's play this year has pretty much made him untradeable in my eyes.

Kind of drifted that way. I don't think you trade any player unless it improves your team.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

We are trading our best defensive center and someone who gets all defensive zone time. I don't buy that part. But yes, Brouwer for Oshie would be better. 

 

If we cant defend then what? We hope the goalie saves it for us like we've done the last few years?

 

we still have some poor team D from time to time. 

I think keeping Stajan to bridge to Jankowski helps you cover off some of the effects of trading Backlund. Also I have to think Bennett after this season with another year's experience is a better C for us. We have a chance this off season to better our goaltending, better our defense and have a better group of forwards, I think this more than compensates for a loss of Backlund.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

The dollar amount isent the problem, it would be the term that I think would kill us. If we are going to sign oshie we might as well trade backlund this summer right after signing oshie, because theres no way we can keep all these players.

It would be a tough year, unless we unloaded Stajan and Bouma, then that would cover Oshie.

Shows how much overpaying 4th liners really hurts improving our top 6.

Chicago can handle

Toews

Kane

Hossa

Panarin

Keith

Seabrook

Hjalmerson

And still fit Anisimov-types and quality goaltending.

We've been needing to adjust our bottom payrolls for quite some time now. Don't know about you, but I's hads about all I can take.

How little we've spent at G this yr and are still against the cap further highlights the problem.

[AlbertaBoy12]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It would be a tough year, unless we unloaded Stajan and Bouma, then that would cover Oshie.

Shows how much overpaying 4th liners really hurts improving our top 6.

Chicago can handle

Toews

Kane

Hossa

Panarin

Keith

Seabrook

Hjalmerson

And still fit Anisimov-types and quality goaltending.

We've been needing to adjust our bottom payrolls for quite some time now. Don't know about you, but I's hads about all I can take.

How little we've spent at G this yr and are still against the cap further highlights the problem.

I agree completely.  I just dont think long term oshie is the guy we invest in, not that I dont like his game or anything, I just dont know if he will be one of those guys that continues his production well into his 30s, thats what worries me. I dont wanna be paying a 33 old year 5 million dollars a year to fly by. For all the people about to argue about brouwer, yes he hasent done a ton offensively, but his abilities on the pk have been a good addition and the intangibles are nice. I dont think brouwer is a big issue, but having brouwer, frolik and oshie down our right side would be an issue.

[travel_dude]

I can't remember how we got onto trades, but maybe we can get back to discussing GG here and trades in the Realistic Trades thread.

 

GG sucks.  There that should get it going again.  

 

Just kidding.  My beef is line juggling without giving a line any chance and usage of players that aren't working.

For example:

Bouma in the lineup after Hamilton played a decent game.

Brodie's inability to get shots on the PP.

Chaisson on the 3rd line with Bennett.

Wideman.