Shaw suspended for being offensive

[conundrumed]

I can't find details on what he actually said, but calling someone a kneeing or a charging, in the heat of battle?

WTF?

Tell me it was something different and I'll yield.

I'm guessing it isn't, and this is disgraceful.

It's a 2 way street. We're guys. That's how we do it regardless of level.

What's next? OMG he called me a loser, ban him?

[Flyerfan52]

We live in a very politically correct world. Being 24 Shaw grew up with that. He should have known better.

 

I could understand an older player using certain words but  that's because mores change over generations.

 

Being guys has nothing to do with it. That's like trying to justify the N word. Times change & we need to grow with them.

[conundrumed]

We live in a very politically correct world. Being 24 Shaw grew up with that. He should have known better.

 

I could understand an older player using certain words but  that's because mores change over generations.

 

Being guys has nothing to do with it. That's like trying to justify the N word. Times change & we need to grow with them.

You mean shrink with them? Are we so innocent that everything should be dumbed down to child-like?

Being guys has everything to do with it. Not to justify anything but being competitive with each other.

Insults ensue...

Should we just suppress everything? You know, to socially acceptable levels for those not actually competing?

[The_Argus]

Not really sure how being more considerate of other people (especially marginalized groups of people) is considered "shrinking" with the times. There's plenty of insults he could have chosen that wouldn't be considered homophobic slurs. That's what people are upset about. Not the fact that he insulted another player. Players insult each other and cuss each other out all the time. You hear F-bombs, etc. accidentally caught on broadcasts all the time. No one really cares about that. No one's saying that everything should be suppressed

 

Moreover, I don't even think it's the fact he said it so much. I'd be highly surprised if stuff like that isn't said on the ice and usually let slide. It's the fact he got caught on camera.

[CheersMan]

Not really sure how being more considerate of other people (especially marginalized groups of people) is considered "shrinking" with the times. There's plenty of insults he could have chosen that wouldn't be considered homophobic slurs. That's what people are upset about. Not the fact that he insulted another player. Players insult each other and cuss each other out all the time. You hear F-bombs, etc. accidentally caught on broadcasts all the time. No one really cares about that. No one's saying that everything should be suppressed

 

Moreover, I don't even think it's the fact he said it so much. I'd be highly surprised if stuff like that isn't said on the ice and usually let slide. It's the fact he got caught on camera.

 

AND…..what about the emphatic middle finger solute, with both hands at the same time?  Sure he had gloves on but his message was clear.  Was that directed at the ref as well?  Should have given him another game for that one too.  Shaw messed up, he made a mistake, two in fact.  Having said that, I wouldn’t mind seeing the RFA RHS wearing the Flaming C next year though.

[The_Argus]

AND…..what about the emphatic middle finger solute, with both hands at the same time?  Sure he had gloves on but his message was clear.  Was that directed at the ref as well?  Should have given him another game for that one too.  Shaw messed up, he made a mistake, two in fact.  Having said that, I wouldn’t mind seeing the RFA RHS wearing the Flaming C next year though.

 

Colin Campbell did mention the "inappropriate gesture" in his statement, so I'm guessing that was taken into consideration as well. Honestly, I think the NHL would have let him get away with that (or maybe just stuck him with a fine), if it wasn't for what he said in the box after (though, of course, I don't know for sure). Which just further goes to my point that the NHL isn't trying to suppress all emotion and trash talk. They'll let players get away with a lot. But the NHL is a business that has to appeal to a wide base and uphold their reputation. There's some things they can't let their players get away with saying... especially on camera.

[conundrumed]

Mod edit: No

[conundrumed]

Mod edit: No

Alright. Understood. Didn't Curt Schilling used to be someone that won the Jays a championship?

ESPN, Wow huge controversy lol. Pearl Jam cancelled their concert there due to the bill.

Guessing Pearl Jam and their alliances is a far bigger story.

NC will relent and not be Schilling retarded about it.

Although I do understand most of the US population is armed and dying for the minimal misunderstanding to shoot someone.

I'd buy that argument lol.

[cross16]

. It's the fact he got caught on camera.

 

Exactly. It was clear as day what he said and it was clearly derogatory and for a league that needs to market itself and needs to market its players you cannot have your players "standing" for comments or opinions like that. I don't think the NHL really cares what gets said on the ice, its what gets "heard" on the ice that they care about. Shaw went over the edge and got what he deserved IMO. 

 

NHL doesn't get it right often but here I think they did. The only thing I wish they would have done different is instead of the fine going to the players associate it should have been redirected to You Can Play or something. 

[Flyerfan52]

Exactly. It was clear as day what he said and it was clearly derogatory and for a league that needs to market itself and needs to market its players you cannot have your players "standing" for comments or opinions like that. I don't think the NHL really cares what gets said on the ice, its what gets "heard" on the ice that they care about. Shaw went over the edge and got what he deserved IMO. 

 

NHL doesn't get it right often but here I think they did. The only thing I wish they would have done different is instead of the fine going to the players associate it should have been redirected to You Can Play or something. 

As Burke said there are members of the GLBT (there might be more letters but those are the only 1s I can think of now) community that are fans, employees, etc. of the game. After over 100 years of existance I'd be surprised if @ least some of the players hadn't been slashing even if none admitted it.

Look @ the women on TC. More than 1 is an admitted lesbian.

 

It's hockey. Judge on the skills rather than color, nationality or sexual preference.

***********************************************************************************

I agree the fine should go to something like You Can Play. Maybe for PR reasons Shaw &/or the Blackhawks will send them a donation.

[Flyerfan52]

You mean shrink with them? Are we so innocent that everything should be dumbed down to child-like?

Being guys has everything to do with it. Not to justify anything but being competitive with each other.

Insults ensue...

Should we just suppress everything? You know, to socially acceptable levels for those not actually competing?

You wouldn't believe how many people are still in the closet because of attitudes like yours. Your drinking buddy might be queer as a $3 bill but acts macho.

Here's a ? for you. If you found out your brother/sister/daughter/son or anyone close to you turned out to be slashing would you think differently? Would you think less of someone close to you just because of their sexual orientation?

[conundrumed]

You wouldn't believe how many people are still in the closet because of attitudes like yours. Your drinking buddy might be queer as a $3 bill but acts macho.

Here's a ? for you. If you found out your brother/sister/daughter/son or anyone close to you turned out to be slashing would you think differently? Would you think less of someone close to you just because of their sexual orientation?

Not in the slightest. I could care less quite honestly.

But when you're hurling insults in a red rage at someone in particular, why is everyone else offended? It wasn't directed at anyone else. Isn't that just right over the top?

Do the idiots of the world unite when you call someone an idiot?

[The_Argus]

Not in the slightest. I could care less quite honestly.

But when you're hurling insults in a red rage at someone in particular, why is everyone else offended? It wasn't directed at anyone else. Isn't that just right over the top?

Do the idiots of the world unite when you call someone an idiot?

 

I think it's just the way language evolves over time. "Idiot" isn't really viewed as demeaning to a whole group of people. (I know some people object to the term, but they're really in the minority, and I think that actually is a case of being overly-PC).

 

I don't think Shaw actually intended to offend anyone, and honestly, I would agree that if anyone is really horribly offended by what he said, they probably should grow a bit of a thicker skin. But that still doesn't make it okay, and it's a still a case where the NHL needs to send a message saying they're not going to tolerate it. I don't really see it as being much of a debate. Most of the hockey community seems to be on-side with the punishment, and Shaw himself has accepted it, apologized, and he'll move on.

[Carty]

Do the idiots of the world unite when you call someone an idiot?

 

They tried uniting for a protest march, but it didn't work out very well...

 

      

[Heartbreaker]

As Burke said there are members of the GLBT (there might be more letters but those are the only 1s I can think of now) community that are fans, employees, etc. of the game. After over 100 years of existance I'd be surprised if @ least some of the players hadn't been slashing even if none admitted it.

Look @ the women on TC. More than 1 is an admitted lesbian.

 

It's hockey. Judge on the skills rather than color, nationality or sexual preference.

***********************************************************************************

I agree the fine should go to something like You Can Play. Maybe for PR reasons Shaw &/or the Blackhawks will send them a donation.

 

I know what the rules are on the board regarding comments without credible sources. So, no specifics, but a friend of mine in Toronto is employed by the NHL (or at least, was as of a few years ago), and is responsible for collecting samples for drug tests. He's as slashing as you get, and he has specifically mentioned that an extremely prominent star in the eastern conference is slashing as well. He says that it'll be reported sometime after his career is finished. Personally, I hope that he comes out long before that. It'd set a great example, and be a major precedent. 

 

Love. 

[DirtyDeeds]

Not in the slightest. I could care less quite honestly.

But when you're hurling insults in a red rage at someone in particular, why is everyone else offended? It wasn't directed at anyone else. Isn't that just right over the top?

Do the idiots of the world unite when you call someone an idiot?

The someone in particular was an official, at least that was what was reported on Fan960. Add to that it was all caught on film, case closed.

 

Heat of the moment? pfft this is redneck thinking and just excuses.

[conundrumed]

The someone in particular was an official, at least that was what was reported on Fan960. Add to that it was all caught on film, case closed.

 

Heat of the moment? pfft this is redneck thinking and just excuses.

Redneck thinking, now that IS funny. I'm fine he sits a game, but is everyone here telling me they've never had a screaming match where your hurling insults at that person and only trying to offend that person? Wish I had your lives.

But in having a discussion about it, let's count, I'm now a redneck, a bigot, racist, homophobic, did I miss anything?

Kind of childish, don't you think? You folks should tell all of my friends and family about it, they'd be astonished lol.

[conundrumed]

Last winter, like 3 days from Christmas, a car rolled by me with a half flat back passenger tire. I caught up and had them follow me to an empty church parking lot.

It was two black ladies, am I allowed to say that? 60 to 70. I changed the tire. No big right? As I got to work the driver broke into tears that her husband sent me. The passenger informed me that the driver's husband had passed away two weeks prior.

I was in the US. When I told her I'm Canadian, she pulled out a freezer bag of CDN cash and tried to force me to take it. "My husband loved going to Canada and always kept this. He sent you, take it.

There were a lot of hugs and compassion.

 

I had the same situation a month earlier, a single mom thought I was weird and stalking her or something. Finally got her to follow me to a pump. As I filled the tire I could hear it pissing out.

She had a melt down that she can't go to a tire shop because of work, and she definitely can't afford $120 for a new tire.

I followed her to work and we traded keys. Can you imagine? A total stranger.

I took it to a shop and it REALLY got interesting.

The clerk ( obviously slashing JUST KIDDING) asked me details, I told him I'm just trying to help a stranger out and was really taken aback.

Tire has to be replaced. Okay, I'll get it. All 4 actually, now I'm like uggghhh what am I doing. He talked me into it, "I'll give you a great deal". "It really needs a tuneup". OMG, this is the price of being nice????

Finally, 4 new skins, tuneup, maintenance report...

Sooooo, I am now just thinking "what the frick am I doing"?

So the clerk, the smartass, I'm sweating, gives me the, "so the real total is $714.76, but it's pro bono".

True story.

 

I'm not defending myself, they're just good stories lol. That happen to be true.

So while everyone gets to feeling all proud of themselves on a message board passing judgement, try not to.

[The_People1]

^ if we were over at my house enjoying a brew together and joke about homosexuals, then sure, and who knows, we may even enjoy a laugh about it together. That said, Andrew Shaw was at "work". He was representing his team, teammates, the NHL, etc. He made the entire product look bad and should be suspended for sure. Rules are rules and you can't act like that at a workplace environment. Not saying you cant agitate and intimidate in hockey but you can't slur to that degree.

The grey area would be, what if he Facebooked those comments after hours from home... ><

[Flyerfan52]

Last winter, like 3 days from Christmas, a car rolled by me with a half flat back passenger tire. I caught up and had them follow me to an empty church parking lot.

It was two black ladies, am I allowed to say that? 60 to 70. I changed the tire. No big right? As I got to work the driver broke into tears that her husband sent me. The passenger informed me that the driver's husband had passed away two weeks prior.

I was in the US. When I told her I'm Canadian, she pulled out a freezer bag of CDN cash and tried to force me to take it. "My husband loved going to Canada and always kept this. He sent you, take it.

There were a lot of hugs and compassion.

 

I had the same situation a month earlier, a single mom thought I was weird and stalking her or something. Finally got her to follow me to a pump. As I filled the tire I could hear it pissing out.

She had a melt down that she can't go to a tire shop because of work, and she definitely can't afford $120 for a new tire.

I followed her to work and we traded keys. Can you imagine? A total stranger.

I took it to a shop and it REALLY got interesting.

The clerk ( obviously slashing JUST KIDDING) asked me details, I told him I'm just trying to help a stranger out and was really taken aback.

Tire has to be replaced. Okay, I'll get it. All 4 actually, now I'm like uggghhh what am I doing. He talked me into it, "I'll give you a great deal". "It really needs a tuneup". OMG, this is the price of being nice????

Finally, 4 new skins, tuneup, maintenance report...

Sooooo, I am now just thinking "what the frick am I doing"?

So the clerk, the smartass, I'm sweating, gives me the, "so the real total is $714.76, but it's pro bono".

True story.

 

I'm not defending myself, they're just good stories lol. That happen to be true.

So while everyone gets to feeling all proud of themselves on a message board passing judgement, try not to.

Paying it forward Bud. Good on you.

Karma does happen.

[conundrumed]

Can't +1, but yeah.

But are we not being cornered into being hyper sensitive?

You english cigarette at your house lol

Paying it forward Bud. Good on you.

Karma does happen.

Cheers boss, regardless of anything else, we do right by one another in real life.

[conundrumed]

Oops sorry, Peeps in his house of ill repute is an English cigarette lol.

Just because, really. But I don't mean he's an England cigarette, but Peeps you're trending Benson & Hedges, you naughty boy.

The amount of punishment is far greater than the intent.

[DirtyDeeds]

Redneck thinking, now that IS funny. I'm fine he sits a game, but is everyone here telling me they've never had a screaming match where your hurling insults at that person and only trying to offend that person? Wish I had your lives.

But in having a discussion about it, let's count, I'm now a redneck, a bigot, racist, homophobic, did I miss anything?

Kind of childish, don't you think? You folks should tell all of my friends and family about it, they'd be astonished lol.

I did not call you a redneck. I said it was redneck thinking.

 

You are welcome to shout at your friends and family all you want..... in the privacy of your home... It is also up to them how they want react to you over it. Silent treatment, leave you, shout back, get physical whatever....

 

but if you do this in front of everyone to see, when you are representing your company. What do you expect, you will hear from your employer, over it?

[conundrumed]

I did not call you a redneck. I said it was redneck thinking.

 

You are welcome to shout at your friends and family all you want..... in the privacy of your home... It is also up to them how they want react to you over it. Silent treatment, leave you, shout back, get physical whatever....

 

but if you do this in front of everyone to see, when you are representing your company. What do you expect, you will hear from your employer, over it?

Not much actually DD, you should see my trade lol. It's typically family-like, but there is always those "people" so to speak, that think everyone is under their thumb. At which point, I typically humiliate them and leave. Lack of respect deserves the same back.

It's a whole other thing though. He was wild in red rage, as I stated, he was punished for it, I understand. But to say he's discriminating against an entire group was never his intention, it gets twisted out of proportion.

I am quite sensitive to people, I mean, if your going off on a minimum wager trying to help you and I'm watching it, I won't sit quietly and let you. I have a history with that and some more good long-winded stories lol. From Granma's to gangsters lol. It's out there.

That's bullying, and if no one calls you on it, you're unlikely to think twice about it next time. Some of it stems from racism, maybe even most.

But again, that's a different thing.

I'm sure the ref didn't give a flying rat (a bat?lol) about what Shaw had to say.

[Cowtownguy]

Can't +1, but yeah.

But are we not being cornered into being hyper sensitive?

You english cigarette at your house lol

Cheers boss, regardless of anything else, we do right by one another in real life.

I hear what you are saying. However, Shaw's mistake was that he knowingly used a term, albeit in the heat of the moment, that is offensive to a group of people who face hostility for doing something that does not affect others. The LGBT community has endured serious shame and humiliation for a long time. As well, suicide rates are particularly high among these folks. And let's face it, too many people today take their moral cures from celebrities like hockey players. If the League ignored it, some people would think that their heroes endorse that sort of thing.

 

It was a dumb move on his part, but his apology was just excellent. He admitted his error, apologized, and said he would change his behaviour. You cannot ask for much more than that. One game and a fine for that and the gesture is appropriate IMO. 

 

Are people too sensitive? Absolutely. Do some people get over-the-top self-righteous just to hear their own voices? Happens all of the time and it is very irritating. I think that there is room to grow though. If I may ask you a question conundrumed, do you think that the NHL should have ignored Shaw's behaviour? What do you think they should do about it given it was rather public?

 

ETA: I believe that someone above made a good point of noting that Shaw has grown up at a time when this language is unacceptable. That makes a difference I think.