Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Unforunatly we arent going to trade for one, unless we make a big move. I shouldnt make it out to be a gurantee we wont trade for one, but theres very few players of the list below we could acquire or would want to acquire given the cost.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active/2017/caphit/all/rightwing

I think people get way to caught up with idealism when roster building because you just never know who will gell with other players. Ferland works well with Gaudreau and Monahan because he is enough of a distraction for the opposition due to what he does physically. We tend to forget that he has a very good shot and good hands around the net, He also frees up space for JG and SM to allow them to do their thing. I would be surprised if this isn't the thinking of Flames management heading into this season and adjust if necessary.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Just now, MAC331 said:

I think people get way to caught up with idealism when roster building because you just never know who will gell with other players. Ferland works well with Gaudreau and Monahan because he is enough of a distraction for the opposition due to what he does physically. We tend to forget that he has a very good shot and good hands around the net, He also frees up space for JG and SM to allow them to do their thing. I would be surprised if this isn't the thinking of Flames management heading into this season and adjust if necessary.

Thats been my thoughts all along, especially with how the flames have talked about ferland.

[MAC331]

Just now, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Thats been my thoughts all along, especially with how the flames have talked about ferland.

I would rather see Ferland be given the chance than bring in Marleau or someone else and have Ferland knocked down again. Show some faith and see if he rewards you.

If I am BT my moves are done for now,

[AlbertaBoy12]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I would rather see Ferland be given the chance than bring in Marleau or someone else and have Ferland knocked down again. Show some faith and see if he rewards you.

If I am BT my moves are done for now,

I dont see the harm bringing in marleau, but im not quite sure where he fits. The only spot I see right now is on backlunds line in the top 9 and im not sure marleau fits there. If they dont want to break up the 3 m line though a line of marleau bennett versteeg might be good.

[MAC331]

51 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I dont see the harm bringing in marleau, but im not quite sure where he fits. The only spot I see right now is on backlunds line in the top 9 and im not sure marleau fits there. If they dont want to break up the 3 m line though a line of marleau bennett versteeg might be good.

Every time you make a move such as this some gets pushed back in the depth chart and I would rather advance our future by having Ferland get better. Adding a Marleau or a Williams is trying to say they give us a better chance at winning a SC this season and I don't want to buy into that for us.

[travel_dude]

I don't have a big issue with bringing in players that give you top 9 depth.  If you are going to do that, then you better be ready to move out at least a 4th liner.  Ferland played well enough to finish the season to be looked upon as a good top 3 option.

But, you need depth to be able to replace him if he doesn't work out.

 

Bring in Marleau and Janko, move out Bouma and Stajan.

Bring in Hamonic, Murphy/Andersson and Kulak, move out Bart.

 

I'm thinking in terms of player development and competition.  Don't waste away a prospect because you have a vet that plays just well enough to be in the lineup.

[rickross]

If I had to pick my top 5 Flames prospects based on hype I'd go....

 

1.Janko

2.Parsons 

3.Foo

4.Anderson

5.Fox

 

My top 5 prospects with the most realistic chance to make it to the NHL soon

 

1.Janko

2.Anderson

3.Kulak

4.Lomberg

5.Gillies/Rittich

 

Of course I'm not using science to determine all this, just having fun with our prospects' prospects..ha. 

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, rickross said:

If I had to pick my top 5 Flames prospects based on hype I'd go....

 

1.Janko

2.Parsons 

3.Foo

4.Anderson

5.Fox

 

 

Valimaki maybe?

 

Janko is pretty ripe, but I'd not rank him so high in terms of potential.   Mangiapane's worth mention too.

 

 

[jjgallow]

On 30/06/2017 at 10:35 AM, travel_dude said:

I don't have a big issue with bringing in players that give you top 9 depth.  If you are going to do that, then you better be ready to move out at least a 4th liner.  Ferland played well enough to finish the season to be looked upon as a good top 3 option.

But, you need depth to be able to replace him if he doesn't work out.

 

Bring in Marleau and Janko, move out Bouma and Stajan.

Bring in Hamonic, Murphy/Andersson and Kulak, move out Bart.

 

I'm thinking in terms of player development and competition.  Don't waste away a prospect because you have a vet that plays just well enough to be in the lineup.

 

True.    We're also just getting to that stage of the rebuild.    Everyone sees the first round picks, but the supporting players are starting to come into their own now.

 

I'd actually hoped we'd have a few more, to be honest, but I'm hopeful with some of the more recent drafts.

[rickross]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Valimaki maybe?

 

Janko is pretty ripe, but I'd not rank him so high in terms of potential.   Mangiapane's worth mention too.

 

 

Definitely considered Valimaki just thought he was a bit too fresh but he's one to keep an eye on. I'm a fan of Mangiapane, still think he's about 2-3 years away but he's got potential as a solid 3/4th liner. As far as Janko goes he's been such a long term project that we deserve to see his development through, he's close as ever right now. 

 

A bit surprising Kylington hasn't broke through just yet. Such great mobility but struggles with decision making..I'm hoping he sticks around but he could become a trade chip in the future to reacquire picks or a top asset. 

 

[Cowtownguy]

2 hours ago, rickross said:

Definitely considered Valimaki just thought he was a bit too fresh but he's one to keep an eye on. I'm a fan of Mangiapane, still think he's about 2-3 years away but he's got potential as a solid 3/4th liner. As far as Janko goes he's been such a long term project that we deserve to see his development through, he's close as ever right now. 

 

A bit surprising Kylington hasn't broke through just yet. Such great mobility but struggles with decision making..I'm hoping he sticks around but he could become a trade chip in the future to reacquire picks or a top asset. 

 

I don't get that. Brodie had the same issue. When you are on the blue line in the offensive zone, you have to be careful with shots/passes into the zone. It was not uncommon for Brodie to try and pass it between the legs of an opposition player, and voila, a potential breakaway. Maybe they do so assuming that they can skate fast enough to defend, but it sure makes for anxious hockey. Try that with McJesus and it will go in more times than not. How hard is it to teach the safe play when in these situations?

[conundrumed]

51 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Try that with McJesus and it will go in more times than not.

Isn't not putting the puck near him our top priority?

Let's not him adjust to it the 3rd time and run up ice.

Because he will.

[rickross]

6 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I don't get that. Brodie had the same issue. When you are on the blue line in the offensive zone, you have to be careful with shots/passes into the zone. It was not uncommon for Brodie to try and pass it between the legs of an opposition player, and voila, a potential breakaway. Maybe they do so assuming that they can skate fast enough to defend, but it sure makes for anxious hockey. Try that with McJesus and it will go in more times than not. How hard is it to teach the safe play when in these situations?

I watched enough Stockton games to just accept that the kid is an elite skater who rather go for the highlight play than the safe one more often than not. He's got a decent shot and his overall D game has improved but you just can't trust him yet to make the simple play. Like you said, I think they do take more chances because they're so confident in their skating ability. 

 

This new D core will be judged on their ability to stop McMoney. We have great D men prospects and goalies on the come up so it'll be interesting to see how they step into future BoA's. 

[cross16]

17 hours ago, rickross said:

I watched enough Stockton games to just accept that the kid is an elite skater who rather go for the highlight play than the safe one more often than not. He's got a decent shot and his overall D game has improved but you just can't trust him yet to make the simple play. Like you said, I think they do take more chances because they're so confident in their skating ability. 

 

This new D core will be judged on their ability to stop McMoney. We have great D men prospects and goalies on the come up so it'll be interesting to see how they step into future BoA's. 

 

I agree. I'm not optimistic that this part of his game will ever go away as I just don't think he has very good hockey sense, i'd say its average. Brodie has very good hockey sense, Yes will make the odd brain cramp usually on an outlet pass, but 90% of the time Brodie makes the right read. I don't think the issue with Brodie is poor decision making, its that he struggles with outlet passes as in all over aspects of the game Brodie almost always makes the right read. 

[rickross]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree. I'm not optimistic that this part of his game will ever go away as I just don't think he has very good hockey sense, i'd say its average. Brodie has very good hockey sense, Yes will make the odd brain cramp usually on an outlet pass, but 90% of the time Brodie makes the right read. I don't think the issue with Brodie is poor decision making, its that he struggles with outlet passes as in all over aspects of the game Brodie almost always makes the right read. 

Enter Mike Smith! With his puck handling/passing skills he should take some of pressure of outlet passing off our D. That or he overplays the puck and causes a turnover. I'm sure we'll see a bit if both with Mike Smith. I agree, Brodie has good hockey sense, I felt pairing him with Gio just made him a more responsible player. Well see if Hamonic as a potential partner can do the same. 

 

Jury is still out on Kylington, with Valamaki and Fox in tow he's got to be feeling some pressure to improve his decision making or risk falling down the depth chart. 

[kehatch]

People need to keep in mind that Kylington is at an age where most of his peers are in junior. 

 

That said, I am confident the Flames will get a D or two out of the system. Between Valimaki, Fox, Anderson, Kylington, etc we have a lot of bullets in thst gun. 

 

We also can't forget Kulak. He has quietly turned into a decent possession Dman. He will never be flashy, but he could be a reliable bottom pairing guy. 

[rickross]

17 minutes ago, kehatch said:

People need to keep in mind that Kylington is at an age where most of his peers are in junior. 

 

That said, I am confident the Flames will get a D or two out of the system. Between Valimaki, Fox, Anderson, Kylington, etc we have a lot of bullets in thst gun. 

 

We also can't forget Kulak. He has quietly turned into a decent possession Dman. He will never be flashy, but he could be a reliable bottom pairing guy. 

Poor Kulak...he's actually one of our best D prospects right now but he rarely gets much love. I don't mind Kulak, he's a capable D man and a bit more confidence could unlock more potential. Regarding Kylington it's easy to forget his age but ppl jump started his potential based off the fact he's been playing pro for as long as he has. Flames are good to go in terms of D depth...atleast 3 more years for these guys to develop before potentially jumping to the NHL is smart management. 

[cross16]

I don't forget Kylingtons age, but when you see him make the same plays at all different levels of hockey it's a valid concern. Not saying he has no future but I do think it's more limited than most people think and you will always have to live with the ups and downs and the risk/reward that's all. 

[Khrox]

4 hours ago, kehatch said:

People need to keep in mind that Kylington is at an age where most of his peers are in junior. 

 

That said, I am confident the Flames will get a D or two out of the system. Between Valimaki, Fox, Anderson, Kylington, etc we have a lot of bullets in thst gun. 

 

We also can't forget Kulak. He has quietly turned into a decent possession Dman. He will never be flashy, but he could be a reliable bottom pairing guy. 

And something people seem to forget is that bottom pairing guys, while not necessarily a minute muncher, are still important. It's rare when you have a team like Nashville for their top 4 (or potentially us this year) where your top 4 guys can eat 50+ minutes a game. If you aren't there, your bottom pairing needs to be able to reliably handle 15 minutes or so, and Kulak is a guy who could definitely be that (15 or so minutes a night, potentially can step into top 4 if injuries occur).

For NHL readiness of our D, Kulak is top of my list (with Anderson being second).

But I also agree that our D pipeline is definitely loaded with shots. Vali, Fox, Kylington, Anderson, Kulak and even Wotherspoon (who I'd say we could probably have replace Bart as the 7th. I don't see Spoon getting much better even with more playing time. A 6th/7th is where I see him at now, and doubt he ever really exceeds that)

[kehatch]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

I don't forget Kylingtons age, but when you see him make the same plays at all different levels of hockey it's a valid concern. Not saying he has no future but I do think it's more limited than most people think and you will always have to live with the ups and downs and the risk/reward that's all. 

 

It's a concern for sure. But the positive is the guy has so many other tools working. If he can figure out his decision making and improve his defensive play he could be a high end D man. I personally have him behind Anderson, Valimaki, and Fox in terms of best prospects though, and I get the concerns. 

[MAC331]

16 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

It's a concern for sure. But the positive is the guy has so many other tools working. If he can figure out his decision making and improve his defensive play he could be a high end D man. I personally have him behind Anderson, Valimaki, and Fox in terms of best prospects though, and I get the concerns. 

I have no doubt our depth chart will change between now and 2 years from now. Just with the adding of Valimaki and having Fox join eventually. We are heavy with LHSD and a few of our D prospects will find themselves playing the RS this upcoming season, maybe they should try Kylington there.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

It's a concern for sure. But the positive is the guy has so many other tools working. If he can figure out his decision making and improve his defensive play he could be a high end D man. I personally have him behind Anderson, Valimaki, and Fox in terms of best prospects though, and I get the concerns. 

I would probably take it a step further to split them by handedness:

 

LD

Valimaki

Kylington

Kulak

Olas-Mattsson

Healey

Spoon

 

RD

Andersson

Fox

 

The disparity between LD and RD is fine, since we have 3 RD that have long careers (if they stay) ahead of them.  The LD spots have Gio tailing off in a few years (3+) and only Brodie being a long term fixture.  Call me old school, but I would like to see Healey get a game or two in, just to see his open ice hits.  Maybe even Olas-Mattsson for his solidness.  DOn't know if he has NHL capability, though.

[MAC331]

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I would probably take it a step further to split them by handedness:

 

LD

Valimaki

Kylington

Kulak

Olas-Mattsson

Healey

Spoon

 

RD

Andersson

Fox

 

The disparity between LD and RD is fine, since we have 3 RD that have long careers (if they stay) ahead of them.  The LD spots have Gio tailing off in a few years (3+) and only Brodie being a long term fixture.  Call me old school, but I would like to see Healey get a game or two in, just to see his open ice hits.  Maybe even Olas-Mattsson for his solidness.  DOn't know if he has NHL capability, though.

Wotherspoon has to be the Rodney Dangerfield of our organization, the guy gets no respect. LOL

I think we should treat our prospects like baseball, once they have seen NHL action they are no longer considered prospects but roster options. I would remove both Kulak and Wotherspoon from the list.

It is always hard to predict the future but with our LHSD prospects I see both Giordano and Brodie's replacements eventually. Long term fixtures or prime trade pieces our GM will have to decide. If heading into 2018/19 we are still trying figure out top line RW and Brodie would get us that player I think BT has to consider such a move.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Wotherspoon has to be the Rodney Dangerfield of our organization, the guy gets not respect. LOL

I think we should treat our prospects like baseball, once they have seen NHL action they are no longer considered prospects but roster options. I would remove both Kulak and Wotherspoon from the list.

It is always hard to predict the future but with our LHSD prospects I see both Giordano and Brodie's replacements eventually. Long term fixtures or prime trade pieces our GM will have to decide. If heading into 2018/19 we are still trying figure out top line RW and Brodie would get us that player I think BT has to consider such a move.

 

My opinion of Spoon is based on his career to date and his lower ceiling.  THose with lesser offense at the jinior and AHL level tend to not get above the 3rd pair.  I know he played with Jones his last season in Portland, so his numbers were inflated that year.  Had one ok year in the AHL and never really got back there.  

 

Saying that, it's more how I view the prospects above him.  They have unique skill sets or elite skating/scoring.  By this time next year, Spoon could be past Kulak.  Just don't know right now.

[jjgallow]

On 7/12/2017 at 10:49 PM, kehatch said:

People need to keep in mind that Kylington is at an age where most of his peers are in junior. 

 

That said, I am confident the Flames will get a D or two out of the system. Between Valimaki, Fox, Anderson, Kylington, etc we have a lot of bullets in thst gun. 

 

Exactly.  The reallity of the situation is that Kylington is literally a kid, in the most biological sense.  Just like his body is not fully physically developed as it will be in his 20's, his brain isn't either.   Our ability to make split second risk evaluations is very much tied to brain development that persists into our early 20's.   As this is a key component of being a defenceman, it is one of the reasons why they develop later.   Just as it impact some young forwards...less so in terms of ability, and moreso in terms of being prone to injury (such as open ice hits).

 

It will come.

 

What I'm also interested in Kylington, is if he's able to step up the offensive part of his game.   For the past 3-4 years, he has consistently been in leagues slightly too advanced for him (the curse of excellence), which has impeded development of this part of his game.   His offensive game clearly shows in SupereElit, unfortunately all that did was land him too early into the SHL, and then the AHL.   Hoping he can soon make the translation.......very similar to what Backlund had to go through in his development.

 

Quote

We also can't forget Kulak. He has quietly turned into a decent possession Dman. He will never be flashy, but he could be a reliable bottom pairing guy. 

 

Who's Kulak?