travel_dude Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Ok, noted, he plays with a real center. But, while not totally accurate, we're splitting hairs a bit. No comparison between Natinan right now, and Joseph Blandsi last year. I see Jiri Hudler as his upper limit, yes. He's not as talented as Gaudreau, clearly, but he's also not nearly as small. He's just a touch below average, really. I don't see the Byron comparison. Very good chance he never has as much success as Byron even, that's true. But in terms of projection, Byron is MUCH, MUCH smaller, for starters. Mangiapane is not comparable to Byron in size. In terms of performance, Byron never, ever came anywhere close to where Mangiapane is in junior, this year or last. Byron in terms of toughness. Hudler shies away from contact while Byron looks for it. That is the real comparison I was pointing to, not production nor size. His size only matters to his ability to play in high traffic. It may limit it, like it tends to limit smaller players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Byron in terms of toughness. Hudler shies away from contact while Byron looks for it. That is the real comparison I was pointing to, not production nor size. His size only matters to his ability to play in high traffic. It may limit it, like it tends to limit smaller players. Ahh.... Yeah, that aspect of his game is a good comparison, agreed. A project. He'll need to put on weight. Two years minimum (or more) in the AHL. If they develop him well, I think he could turn our really nicely. But yeah, that's definitely how we got him in the 6th round and it won't change overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Ok, noted, he plays with a real center. But, while not totally accurate, we're splitting hairs a bit. No comparison between Natinan right now, and Joseph Blandsi last year. I see Jiri Hudler as his upper limit, yes. He's not as talented as Gaudreau, clearly, but he's also not nearly as small. He's just a touch below average, really. I don't see the Byron comparison. Very good chance he never has as much success as Byron even, that's true. But in terms of projection, Byron is MUCH, MUCH smaller, for starters. Mangiapane is not comparable to Byron in size. In terms of performance, Byron never, ever came anywhere close to where Mangiapane is in junior, this year or last. Mangiapane is more than a touch below average he is listed at 5'10" 182lbs, league average is 6'2" 210lbs. That is 4" and 28lbs under league average. Also Byron put up 99 points in 64 games in his last year of junior and he had nobody on his team to play with. Mangiapane in his last season 94 points in 54 games playing on a much better surrounded by much better players. I would say they are quite comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Byron in terms of toughness. Hudler shies away from contact while Byron looks for it. That is the real comparison I was pointing to, not production nor size. His size only matters to his ability to play in high traffic. It may limit it, like it tends to limit smaller players. That would explain why Huds was the one standing in front of the net most nights before he was traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Mangiapane is more than a touch below average he is listed at 5'10" 182lbs, league average is 6'2" 210lbs. That is 4" and 28lbs under league average. Also Byron put up 99 points in 64 games in his last year of junior and he had nobody on his team to play with. Mangiapane in his last season 94 points in 54 games playing on a much better surrounded by much better players. I would say they are quite comparable. hmmm...where is the source for that? I'm getting 6'1, 201lbs. That's including the goalies, defencemen too. https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/02/19/nhl-player-size-from-1917-18-to-2014-15-a-brief-look/ At 19, there is Nothing wrong with 182 pounds. He's doing just find there, and probably well on his way to making or being close to league average. So, he's 3 inches shorter, and has decent weight for his age. In terms of point, IMHO, Mangiapane is too far ahead to compare, looking at points per game. Now, that's debatable. But goal-wise, it's not comparable. Mangiapane's WAY further ahead. Combining higher production (especially goals), and totally different heights/weights....I just don't see it. But yes, they're both scrappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 That would explain why Huds was the one standing in front of the net most nights before he was traded. Meaning that Hudler didn't check hard on the boards and steal the puck that way; he used position or his stick to take the puck. Going to the net also isn't initiating contact, it's just not avoiding it. You expect some contact that way, but the D are limited in what they can do. Regher X-checking him in the back is not what would be seen as a legal method. The other thing to note is that Hudler's season on average was about avoiding contact, not going hard into the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 That would explain why Huds was the one standing in front of the net most nights before he was traded. I was going to say something about Hudlee shying away from contact as well. Like you, I don't agree because you see him at times messing around with other teams in corners fighting for a puck. Just because he is a lady byng winner doesn't mean he is fully soft. He just never get penalties but also shows good sportsmanship. Personally I think other players have to respect his skill so he doesn't have to shy away from contact. That's the reason they resort to the hack and slash. Mangiapane was one of the best prospects at camp skill-wise. Albeit, a lot of our high end youth are in the NHL now, so we didn't send the deepest team to the Young Stars Tournament. Mangiapane has Byron's tenacity and Hudler's stick ability. If he can translate that to the NHL that would be a great chip for us in our toolbox. Tradeable maybe, or a 2nd or 3rd liner who can play well with other skilled players. Look at Crosby. For some reason he doesn't work with other elite players and he makes the Kunitz's of the world better. Maybe if Mangiapane can play with a Bennett, Monahan or God-willing a Matthews, he can be a good complimentary player. We don't always need an elite player to play Top6, it's what the player is able to do with the puck when they get it that matters the most. Our topC's will eventually, hopefully make lower tiered players better. Mange can hopefully be that guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Look at Crosby. For some reason he doesn't work with other elite players and he makes the Kunitz's of the world better. Maybe if Mangiapane can play with a Bennett, Monahan or God-willing a Matthews, he can be a good complimentary player. Elite players want the puck and their games are more successful when they have the puck. When you starting putting elite players with elite players there still is only 1 puck so you not are asking them to play a style of game that doesn't work for them because for their whole career they've been the guy who gets the puck. Its not an easy transition to make and why elite players are not always easy to play with. "Shying away from contact" to me doesn't mean you are soft. I dont' think Hudler is soft but I do think he shies away from contact mor eoften that not. Hudler doesn't seek out contact, he tends to avoid it and look for open space but if someone wants to contact him he won't back down. So I agree Hudler isn't soft, but I do think he generally avoids contact but not becuase he is soft its because he knows he can do more danger in open space. Mangiapane is a bit different in that he will seek out contact and initiate it so thats where I do get the Byron comparison. I do agree with JJ that people make way too much about his size. he is smaller, but to call him small I think is misleading. He is on the smaller side, but I don't think he is small because he is built fairly solid for his frame. What he is going to have to develop as he moves up though is creating chances and opportunity through seeking out contact are going to become more difficult when players get bigger. Does he have the pure skill level to go start going around guys? So far I havn't seen it, but that doesnt mean he can't adapt that as part of his game. A plus for him, is while he doens't have Byron's wheels he isn't far behind in that deparment and he kills penalties in Barrie as well. he doens't necessarily have to be a Hudler type where you are top 6 or bust, he has other skills he could develop to. Going to be a fun guy to watch and see how he develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Not taking away from Magniapane, who I agree is one of the Flames top 10 prospects, So if we take a quick break from our usual minor debates about prospect projections, I just realized, on both sides of this discussion, we see Mangiapane as a top 10 prospect on this team. That says a Lot for a 2015 6th Round draft pick. No matter what happens. Give credit where credit is due, nice work the Flames scouting staff. Early on, their 2015 draft appears to be well-played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 So if we take a quick break from our usual minor debates about prospect projections, I just realized, on both sides of this discussion, we see Mangiapane as a top 10 prospect on this team. That says a Lot for a 2015 6th Round draft pick. No matter what happens. Give credit where credit is due, nice work the Flames scouting staff. Early on, their 2015 draft appears to be well-played. Agreed, but I personally think the Flames have a good scouting staff so i'm not overly surprised. Since Sutter left and they beefed up/changed their drafting they've been doing quite well at the draft table so I view Magniapane as just another part of that as opposed to an exception. Of course you can still debate the individuals picks and I'm not going to go through that, i'm just saying if you look at their body of work its good, especially since 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Agreed, but I personally think the Flames have a good scouting staff so i'm not overly surprised. Since Sutter left and they beefed up/changed their drafting they've been doing quite well at the draft table so I view Magniapane as just another part of that as opposed to an exception. Of course you can still debate the individuals picks and I'm not going to go through that, i'm just saying if you look at their body of work its good, especially since 2010. So I throw out a rare complement to the scouting staff, and now I feel baited to say how I Really feel, lol... I agree with you on 2015, and 2011 And, I give them credit for not messing up our last few first round picks (although they've hardly been challenging decisions). So, moving forward.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 So I throw out a rare complement to the scouting staff, and now I feel baited to say how I Really feel, lol... I agree with you on 2015, and 2011 And, I give them credit for not messing up our last few first round picks (although they've hardly been challenging decisions). So, moving forward.... Whats your problem with the 2014 draft or 2013 draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Whats your problem with the 2014 draft or 2013 draft? oh boy..... took the bait eh...... kidding JJ, kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 oh boy..... took the bait eh...... kidding JJ, kidding hahaha im sure theres a reason other then that he worded it the way he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 hahaha im sure theres a reason other then that he worded it the way he did. For a different thread....don't worry, there's plenty of me on the appropriate threads And cross, too lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Guess who had a goal and 3 assists for the 2nd game in a row? http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/schedule/show/game/70411 First star of the game. I was thinking Mangiapane wouldn't catch many others in the points race, but he has 14 points in his last 5 games now, and definitely within reach of 4th overall at this point. Just two goals away from the scoring lead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Another 3 point night with two goals... 17 points in his last 6 games, first star again, And...One ... Measly goal away from the scoring lead now... At this pace, surely won't be long.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 OHL does its yearly coaches poll and gives out "awards" based on coaches. I always think these are neat becuase I value what a coach has to say more than a publication/media. Mangiapane showed up a few times. There are all based on conference so Mangiapane won for the Eastern Conference in these cateogries: Most Underrated Best Skater Best shootout shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 OHL does its yearly coaches poll and gives out "awards" based on coaches. I always think these are neat becuase I value what a coach has to say more than a publication/media. Mangiapane showed up a few times. There are all based on conference so Mangiapane won for the Eastern Conference in these cateogries: Most Underrated Best Skater Best shootout shooter I am surprised and thrilled to see that he was voted as the best skater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 I am surprised and thrilled to see that he was voted as the best skater. It'll be exciting to see him in the playoffs this year and pushing for a Flames spot next summer. Going to be very competitive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 OHL does its yearly coaches poll and gives out "awards" based on coaches. I always think these are neat becuase I value what a coach has to say more than a publication/media. Mangiapane showed up a few times. There are all based on conference so Mangiapane won for the Eastern Conference in these cateogries: Most Underrated Best Skater Best shootout shooter Hey may not be under-rated for long.... If he can transcend his success to the AHL next year....he'll be taken seriously. Still a big step from the AHL to the NHL, but IMHO the bulk of prospects are lost in the junior-AHL transition (or lack thereof) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 NIck cousins is probablly a pretty good comparable. I think from the sounds of it they play similar games, and he had a few years of seasoning in the AHL before he finally stuck with the flyers this season. But it could just be an injury call up, im not a 100% up to date on the flyers complete roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 NIck cousins is probablly a pretty good comparable. I think from the sounds of it they play similar games, and he had a few years of seasoning in the AHL before he finally stuck with the flyers this season. But it could just be an injury call up, im not a 100% up to date on the flyers complete roster. Agreed. Definitely in that range. Mangiapane had another great game, btw. 1 goal, 4 point night. Pushing himself up the leader board. Still just the One measly goal away from the scoring lead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 It's a breath of fresh air to see you on the bandwagon of a propsect JJ. I haven't seen this in a while! I like mange. I'm hoping he can transition his game into the pros. That tends to be the real question. I believe he has the tools to succeed, moreso than Baertschi did...and if Baert can make it work to be a .5 ppg player in the NHL on a team like the Nucks, I'm sure Mange can...uh...manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 It's a breath of fresh air to see you on the bandwagon of a propsect JJ. I haven't seen this in a while! I like mange. I'm hoping he can transition his game into the pros. That tends to be the real question. I believe he has the tools to succeed, moreso than Baertschi did...and if Baert can make it work to be a .5 ppg player in the NHL on a team like the Nucks, I'm sure Mange can...uh...manage. Mangiapane has one thing that Sven never had; 100% compete level. Mangiapane is a constant threat on the forecheck, is more of a sniper than a passer, and plays with an edge. If Byron can transition to the NHL, I see no reason why Mangipane can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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