2015 Youngstars Tournament - Penticton, BC - Van/Cgy/Edm/Wpg

[The_People1]

I recall one new rule from 2014-15 season was you can no longer dive, lay yourself on the ice to make a poke check.  It's deemed dangerous because you can have your wrist stomped on.  I thought that was the call, and that it wasn't a tripping penalty.  In any event, if that new rule exists, then that was 100% a penalty.  Since it happened on a breakaway, sure, penalty shot.

[cccsberg]

Ive noticed bennett every shift hes been on the ice, the kid is buzzing and he has been all around the puck making plays. I dont see how you cant say he did nothing outstanding.

I would agree, been pretty impressive making things happen but hasn't been rewarded with points.  While he was out there against Draisatl he dominated.  Actually I was wondering if Drai was even playing.  In any case, not too worried about him.

 

My primary impressions of the first two games was a lot of pond hockey and limited teamwork/meshing with your line mates.  I think this really hampers a team like Calgary where working together as a team is critical, i.e. multiple passes versus one outstanding individual effort.  The only negatives really is not much from the invites, except for Lomberg and to a lessor extent Baillie, and Kanzig getting passed by a few times, though I think this will be less an issue in a more structured environment.

 

Both goalies have looked good and the overall effort has been good.  

[jjgallow]

Watched the game hated the outcome. First there are some bright spots with this:

 

Postives

 

 

Mangiapane was good, he will make it one day

 

 

 

I would go as far as to say, one day soon, potentially.

 

Let's be honest.  No matter what round we got him in, he looked like a first-rounder out there.  And not a 2015 rounder.  He looked like a first rounder in his original draft year (2014).   

 

And I'm still not going far enough.  the honest truth is that, so far, he has had a greater impact than our 2013 first rounder prospects (Porier, Klimchuk).

 

Very early days, obviously.  But every year, one or two players force the Flames management to make a tough decision.

 

Early on, Mangiapane appears to want to be just that.

[kehatch]

I would go as far as to say, one day soon, potentially.

Let's be honest. No matter what round we got him in, he looked like a first-rounder out there. And not a 2015 rounder. He looked like a first rounder in his original draft year (2014).

And I'm still not going far enough. the honest truth is that, so far, he has had a greater impact than our 2013 first rounder prospects (Porier, Klimchuk).

Very early days, obviously. But every year, one or two players force the Flames management to make a tough decision.

Early on, Mangiapane appears to want to be just that.

Pre-preseason...

[cccsberg]

I would go as far as to say, one day soon, potentially.

 

Let's be honest.  No matter what round we got him in, he looked like a first-rounder out there.  And not a 2015 rounder.  He looked like a first rounder in his original draft year (2014).   

 

And I'm still not going far enough.  the honest truth is that, so far, he has had a greater impact than our 2013 first rounder prospects (Porier, Klimchuk).

 

Very early days, obviously.  But every year, one or two players force the Flames management to make a tough decision.

 

Early on, Mangiapane appears to want to be just that.

I would agree with you that Mangiapane has played great, but isn't he in that tough position of not old enough yet for the AHL?  With the current glut of players vying for the Flames I think it would require a Herculean effort to make the Flames this year.

 

Regarding the Rounds, definitely a steal for the 6th Round, but I would add he is a prototypical later Round choice, i.e. very small so normally dismissed/overlooked even if his play is First Round equivalent.  Since the league seems to be changing and guys like PKane and JGaudreau are doing so well there likely is a spot for him if he keeps it going.  

[travel_dude]

I would go as far as to say, one day soon, potentially.

 

Let's be honest.  No matter what round we got him in, he looked like a first-rounder out there.  And not a 2015 rounder.  He looked like a first rounder in his original draft year (2014).   

 

And I'm still not going far enough.  the honest truth is that, so far, he has had a greater impact than our 2013 first rounder prospects (Porier, Klimchuk).

 

Very early days, obviously.  But every year, one or two players force the Flames management to make a tough decision.

 

Early on, Mangiapane appears to want to be just that.

 

He is noticeable like Johnny was last year in the Young Stars.  If he can show the same tenacity in pre-season and TC, he will make it difficult for them to send him to junior.  That is the only other choice.  They could potentially give him 9 games, but U think there are way too many player fighting for spots, without looking at the 2015 draftees or some of the earlier ones.

[The_People1]

And I'm still not going far enough.  the honest truth is that, so far, he has had a greater impact than our 2013 first rounder prospects (Porier, Klimchuk).

Pre-preseason...

 

I would have to agree with kehatch here.  It's only pre-season.  It's only two games.  Yes, Mangiapane has looked good but if you want to be really critical of him, then i think we all have to agree he falls over too easily.  He needs a year of body building, leg strengthening, and overall improved conditioning, before we can consider him an NHL bound prospect.  He's not going to make anyone's decision difficult for this season... but next season, wow, i think could be his year.  What a great 6th round pick.

 

In comparison, Klimchuk is strong on his skates, looks lean with muscle, and seems to be NHL conditioned.  Now, he just needs to learn how to play hockey... So that said, Mangiapane is well ahead of Klimchuk in terms of getting to the NHL because building a new body is an attainable goal whereas learning how to hockey takes an entire childhood of EA NHL gaming...

[DL44]

First 2015/16 installment of Flames vs Canucks... albeit the rookies...

 

I'm reading above about Mangiapane impressing... will look out for him later.

Who else should i look out for on the Flames tonight?

 

 

For the Canucks...

Subban - has stood out in his ability to skate with and move the puck.

Stewart - he'll be hunting for hits.

Virtanen -  I think after bursting out of the blocks vs the Oil, he reeled it back in for the Jets. Who knows which version shows up. I expect quiet because i suspect he got his bell rung... his play made him a target, so I wouldn't be surprised if he keeps it toned down for one more gm prior to preseason.

 

[cross16]

I agree with kehatch and People, people need to manage expectaions here.

 

Magniapane has looked good yes, but a first rounder? not a chance. Prospects to me are a great example of how people manage their expectations. People thought Sam Bennett should dominate this trounament and becuase he hasn't he is playing "ok". People didn't know what to expet of Magniapane and as a 6th rounder figured he'd be next to nothing, be plays solid all of a sudden he is this great find and a top prospect. its all expectations IMO.

 

Sam Bennett has outplayed Magniapane hands down, but you woudlnt' think so based on the boards here. I don't hink the finish has been there for Bennett but just about everytime he is out there he creates something and the puck finds him. that's not luck, thats a skill very few people have and Bennett has it. Mangiapane has played very well don't get me wrong, but he doesn't have that same quality.

 

and again its 2 games in a pre season tournament. No one should make ANY conclusions based on it at all. I reemember watching some of these and guys like Tim Ramholt looked unstoppable.....

[travel_dude]

I agree with kehatch and People, people need to manage expectaions here.

 

Magniapane has looked good yes, but a first rounder? not a chance. Prospects to me are a great example of how people manage their expectations. People thought Sam Bennett should dominate this trounament and becuase he hasn't he is playing "ok". People didn't know what to expet of Magniapane and as a 6th rounder figured he'd be next to nothing, be plays solid all of a sudden he is this great find and a top prospect. its all expectations IMO.

 

Sam Bennett has outplayed Magniapane hands down, but you woudlnt' think so based on the boards here. I don't hink the finish has been there for Bennett but just about everytime he is out there he creates something and the puck finds him. that's not luck, thats a skill very few people have and Bennett has it. Mangiapane has played very well don't get me wrong, but he doesn't have that same quality.

 

and again its 2 games in a pre season tournament. No one should make ANY conclusions based on it at all. I reemember watching some of these and guys like Tim Ramholt looked unstoppable.....

 

Sam has been the best player on the ice in the games he played, no doubt.  Whether he gets points or not - no big deal, it's a prospect game.  I said elsewhere that this is an unstructured type of game, whereas Sam played for the Flames in a structured environment.

 

Mangiapane is a player of interest.  He is fast and has a nose for offense.  I don't know if he is 1" taller than Johnny or 2-3".  It doesn't matter.  He showed flashes of brilliance like Johnny did last year, but it doesn't mean he will become a top prospect this year. He is just trending the right way, and he has years to become a much better player and/or make the NHL.

 

The thing about Mangiapane is that he is noticeable no matter who he is paired with.  Agostino looked good playing with Bennett, but disappeared when he switched lines.  That is something that players like Sven lacked. 

[DL44]

Canuck lineup:

 

Abols - McCann - Virtanen
LaBate - Cassels - Gardiner
Shinkaruk - Zhukenov - Fox
Stewart - Pettit - Martin

 

Brisebois - Hutton
Cederholm - Neill
Olson - McEneny

 

Witt/Whistle will split the game.

 

No Gaunce, Subban, Zalewski or Sautner.

[Khrox]

Flames Line-Up

Mangiapane - Arnold - Poirier

Marchment - Karnaukhov - Klimchuk

Van Brabant - Baillie - Carroll

Proulx - Burke - Smith

 

Kylington - Morrison

Seiloff - Bruce

Bell - Roy

 

Gillies (1st and 2nd) and Schneider (3rd)

 

 

So a good chunk of those guys get their first action tonight. Also, Andersson has played well so far, and got a contract today. 

[jjgallow]

Pre-preseason...

 

Thanks Dad....

 

 

Seriously, you're of course right, and I did point that out about three times in my post.

 

And yes, I expected the response I got from literally every veteran on these boards warning me that it's just two pre-season prospect games.

 

But.....

 

For those two pre-season prospect games, I do believe Mangiapane had a greater impact than Poirier or Klimchuk (our 2013 first rounders).   Sam Bennett is special.  We know that's not a conversation.

 

And maybe none of this will be a conversation soon.

 

But it is right now.  

 

p.s...I can promise you this, it's a conversation the Flames have had.  Not a chance did they originally schedule him to play 3 games in a row.

[Khrox]

Thoughts on the Game: (And yes I understand, still pre-preseason. It's a prospect tournament so we know that not all these guys are going to be near as good against NHL level players). Also: This game I was doing stuff as well so it didn't have my full attention, but it still had a good bit.

Gillies: Once again, the guy was amazing. Give him a couple years to adapt to the pro-life and workload and we will have a very good goalie on our hands I think.

Smith: Got into a fight pretty early, didn't notice a whole lot from him other than that though.

 

Mangiapane: A bright spot once again tonight, him and Poirier actually worked really well together. Saw a couple real good chances.involving him, but for the first time this tournament, he was help pointless.

 

Poirier: Had a few great chances, usually involving Mangiapane, hit a couple posts. Definitely saw a lot more speed from him this game.

Arnold: Centered the top line (with Mangiapane and Poirier), he was once again a staple on the PK (Vancouver went 0/3 on the PP). Definitely showing that he could very potentially be in the NHL at somepoint this season. Had a couple good chances, usually by waiting out the goaltender, had a couple turnovers from attempting cross-crease passes though.

 

Kylington: Was pretty good. Several great passes were made by him. The couple of times I saw him shoot the puck though, he was well wide of the net. You can see the skill and the skating ability he has, still needs to refine it. Looked good out there though.

As a Team: Really needs to learn to convert on the Power Play. 1 PP goal (against Edmonton) the entire tournament. Not a good job considering they were 0/5 against Winnipeg and 0/7 against Vancouver and 1/3 against Edmonton. Somehow our 6.67% PP was second in the tournament so we can reasonably assume that everyone (other than Edmonton) struggled on the PP (Edmonton had a 26.67% PP going 4/15). Penalty killing we definitely seemed pretty solid, allowing 2 goals on 14 chances, but we had the worst PK in the tournament (85.71%). As a whole, team discipline was pretty good (only Edmonton took less penalties), but it seems worse when you realize that we took 6 minors (that weren't coincidental) in each of the first two games.

All in all, I am impressed with our prospects (though I understand, they are prospects with very limited NHL experience). The overall tournament stand outs were Mangiapane, Bennett (even though he was help pointless, you noticed him out there every game making positive things happen), Arnold, Anderson and Gillies.

[420since1974]

A big thank you to all of you who posted game reviews.

 

I did not have a chance to watch any of them and reading your perspectives was entertaining and informative.

[robrob1974]

Losing 2/3, does that mean the other teams have better prospects than us?

[jjgallow]

Losing 2/3, does that mean the other teams have better prospects than us?

 

not necessarily, but our prospect pool isn't what it was the last two years.

 

Most of our recent top prospects have now moved on to become NHL players.  Monahan, Gaudreau, etc.....even Ortio.

 

Trading picks for Hamilton, as well, while a fantastic trade, leaves us a bit wanting in the prospect department.

 

Obviously the focus is on our young, skilled, highly enviable NHL core.

 

But at the same time, we could stand to bolster our prospect pool now.  

 

p.s...I think we have better prospects than Vancouver and Winnipeg, but not by much.   And Edmonton, as every year, has the most promising prospects.  What they do with them remains to be seen.

[JTech780]

I only caught parts of the Calgary vs Vancouver game, but here is what I noticed.

Kylington's skating is fantastic, which is so important to have on the back end. I also thought his passing was very good, he passes with purpose. He looked tiny though, he has to add some muscle to be able to compete.

Klimchuk looks ready to go pro he is also a great skater and he plays a pro style game at both ends.

Morrison looked ok, made some good break out passes, but also skated himslef into turnovers. He needs to work on his decision making before jumping to the NHL.

Baillie has some skill, but his skating looks awkward and at his size, I want to see a bit better stride.

I am really curious about Mason Marchment, I think there is some untapped potential there. He grew a full foot after his OHL draft year and is still adjusting to his size. I think he will have a good year in Erie this year.

Hunter Smith plays a solid game every time I watch him. He doesn't do anything to wow you, except for the big hits, but he always seems to be doing something to help the team win.

[StarkRaving]

I was especially pleased with this year's crop of draftees.  I expect Mangiapane, Kylington and Andersson to excel in junior this year.  Mangiapane will be AHL-eligible next season and I expect he'll fit in just fine.

 

I felt like Kylington was trying to do too much.  Almost like it was an audition rather than a pre-season tournament.  I know he's AHL-eligible, but I think he could beneift from a year playing with and against his peers in Brandon.

 

Andersson comes off as a very solid defender with good offensive instincts.  It'll be interesting to see if he progresses this year in Barrie.

[travel_dude]

I was especially pleased with this year's crop of draftees.  I expect Mangiapane, Kylington and Andersson to excel in junior this year.  Mangiapane will be AHL-eligible next season and I expect he'll fit in just fine.

 

I felt like Kylington was trying to do too much.  Almost like it was an audition rather than a pre-season tournament.  I know he's AHL-eligible, but I think he could beneift from a year playing with and against his peers in Brandon.

 

Andersson comes off as a very solid defender with good offensive instincts.  It'll be interesting to see if he progresses this year in Barrie.

 

I think Andersson is the real deal.  He looks like a man against boys out there.  He already has two years playing against men in Swede, and his time in Barrie showed that experience.  I believe he actually outscored Ekblad in their respective draft years.

 

Kylington will benefit from a coach that teaches proper defensive work.  He already has skating and offensive skills that can't be taught.  Interesting to see where the Flames thinks he best belongs.

 

To me these are two steals we got in this year's draft.  Add this with Hamilton and Mangiapane, and you have one of the best drafts we have had in some time.  I had actually be liking Kylington with our 2nd rounder, but instead we get Andersson and Kylington for a 2nd and a couple of 3rds.  Bruce and Karnaukov are too green to evaluate yet.

[cross16]

The one thing i will note about Andersson is I didn't see the skating struggles I thought i would. alot of the talk i've heard about him was that he wasn't a very good skater and I don't think I would agree with that. he's not a great skater sure, but i woudln't call him a bad one so i was pleasantly surprised about that. he has great natural offensive instincts once in the offensive zone althought getting there is not the easiest thing right now but that can be ironed out.

 

Kylington is a guy I am trying to like but he is making it very tough. I fully admit I was not high on him going into the draft, hated him at the Under 18s, and so far he hasn't won me over. Fantastic skater sure, but the second he feels pressure I think he folds and turns the puck over. I'm not so sure the Flames got this big steal people think becuase I think Kylington is a project and thats why he fell to the 2nd round. If he can work on that and improve then yes he can still make a career but IMO thats what you expect when you take someone in the 2nd round, a project.

[travel_dude]

The one thing i will note about Andersson is I didn't see the skating struggles I thought i would. alot of the talk i've heard about him was that he wasn't a very good skater and I don't think I would agree with that. he's not a great skater sure, but i woudln't call him a bad one so i was pleasantly surprised about that. he has great natural offensive instincts once in the offensive zone althought getting there is not the easiest thing right now but that can be ironed out.

 

Kylington is a guy I am trying to like but he is making it very tough. I fully admit I was not high on him going into the draft, hated him at the Under 18s, and so far he hasn't won me over. Fantastic skater sure, but the second he feels pressure I think he folds and turns the puck over. I'm not so sure the Flames got this big steal people think becuase I think Kylington is a project and thats why he fell to the 2nd round. If he can work on that and improve then yes he can still make a career but IMO thats what you expect when you take someone in the 2nd round, a project.

 

I think you are little unfair.  He played in a prospects game on North American ice, in a system he has no experience with.  I would expect him to be a bit shaky.  He has to adjust to the ice.  He has some skills to learn that are easy to learn.  It's not like teaching Kanzig to skate.

 

Phat Ras (nickname used elsewhere) had an issue with being in shape.  He knows it and so do the Flames.  I don't think that will be an issue for much longer.  He has a level head and a new NHL contract waiting for him.

[cross16]

I think you are little unfair.  He played in a prospects game on North American ice, in a system he has no experience with.  I would expect him to be a bit shaky.  He has to adjust to the ice.  He has some skills to learn that are easy to learn.  It's not like teaching Kanzig to skate.

 

 

If I was only juding him based on the trounament then yes I would agree. But My problem is that's how he looked at the Under 18s (which was on international ice BTW) so this isn't "new" to me.

 

Again, i'm not saying he is a bust or won't make it i'm jsut saying he is a project IMo and thats why he fell in the draft so i don't agree the Flames got this great steal becuase IMO you get a steal when you get a player that should have gone way earlier, like Brodie. I think there is a valid reason Kyllington fell. I'm not writing him off and you are right the natural skills are there which is why I said he could still be something, but so far i'm seeing alarming trends in his game.

[travel_dude]

If I was only juding him based on the trounament then yes I would agree. But My problem is that's how he looked at the Under 18s (which was on international ice BTW) so this isn't "new" to me.

 

Again, i'm not saying he is a bust or won't make it i'm jsut saying he is a project IMo and thats why he fell in the draft so i don't agree the Flames got this great steal becuase IMO you get a steal when you get a player that should have gone way earlier, like Brodie. I think there is a valid reason Kyllington fell. I'm not writing him off and you are right the natural skills are there which is why I said he could still be something, but so far i'm seeing alarming trends in his game.

 

Fair statement.

 

The draft +1 year is going to shed some light on the "Real" Kylington.  I think the reason he fell was a direct result of his playing in three leagues on multiple teams, so his adjustment didn't show the best.  He started out rated highly, then fell as he was moved around.  

 

I don't know if the WJC is a great predictor of future success.  Some have shown as being stars and fail to live up to it, while others look like crap and become way better.  I'll hold off judgement a bit until he plays in North America full time.

[cross16]

Fair statement.

 

The draft +1 year is going to shed some light on the "Real" Kylington.  I think the reason he fell was a direct result of his playing in three leagues on multiple teams, so his adjustment didn't show the best.  He started out rated highly, then fell as he was moved around.  

 

I don't know if the WJC is a great predictor of future success.  Some have shown as being stars and fail to live up to it, while others look like crap and become way better.  I'll hold off judgement a bit until he plays in North America full time.

 

Just to clarify it was the Under 18s not the world Juniors. i don't beleive Kyllington played for Team Sweden at the WJC last year but I could be wrong about that.

 

Absolutley he has time to shape his career. all i'm saying is that i think there is a trend here that doens't have to do with him being on diferent teams and shuffled around through different leagues. I think thats the "excuse" (for lack of a better work) that was thrown around when people coudln't understand why he would drop. i don't agree with it and think there are holes i his game that warrant his drop and why i'm not super high on him.

 

correctable mistakes yes and I still agree that if they get correct and he developes well you will have a solid player on your hands. Lots of time to go but I guess he point of what i have been saying was i had hoped the Kyllington i saw at the Under 18s was a one off and tat he could come her more confident and when you see the same trend you start to question thing more. let's see how camp goes.