cross16 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I hate giving out 5 year deals to role players, I think 5 years + should be reserved for your core guys. This is my biggest worry with the Frolik deal, I think we will end regretting the deal 2-3 season from now. I don't like the 4 years either, wanted 4, but I don't think its a deal we will regret. What I like about targeting Frolik is this isn't a player that had one good season and is cashing in. 7 NHL seasons 5 of which are double digit goal season, 3 basically 20 goal seasons and 4 of 40 points are more. Shooting percentage never jumps up and he's known to be a consistent procession player as well so I like that at least they are committing to a solid NHL who has shown what he is and as the cap continues to go up in a few years 4 mill for a borderline 2/3rd line player won't be awful. I think the only season we may regret is the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Washington just got Justin Williams on a 2 year $3.25 mill contract. Great value contract for a clutch playoff performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I hate giving out 5 year deals to role players, I think 5 years + should be reserved for your core guys. This is my biggest worry with the Frolik deal, I think we will end regretting the deal 2-3 season from now. We only regret that contract if he doesn't play well. He is 27 and the cap isn't terrible. As long as he isn't bad we can move him in a couple years if we want to. The reality is you can't sign these guys to short term deals. I get why you want to, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Washington just got Justin Williams on a 2 year $3.25 mill contract. Great value contract for a clutch playoff performer. Is that a shot against the Frolik deal you hate? JW is a good player, but he is a higher risk at his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is that a shot against the Frolik deal you hate? JW is a good player, but he is a higher risk at his age. Your right, it isn't a great comparable to the Frolik signing because (as you say) the age is so different. But it's still a great deal for Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is that a shot against the Frolik deal you hate? JW is a good player, but he is a higher risk at his age. Not a shot, just really like the signing. This is more the value type signing I was expecting this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Not a shot, just really like the signing. This is more the value type signing I was expecting this off season. Just making a funny.... In his 2nd year, will JW still look as good? He is starting to get up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Justin Williams cant skate well enough for Hartleys system. He fits well in the LA grind it out style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 If we are signing guys at that low cap hit, we are basically rehashing the Raymonds of the world. Does Frolik make us better? Everyone seems to think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 If we are signing guys at that low cap hit, we are basically rehashing the Raymonds of the world. Does Frolik make us better? Everyone seems to think so... The difference between Raymond and Frolik is that Raymond used to be a good scoring winger and Frolik is a good all-around player. He never recovered well enough after the Bruins hit in the SCF. He showed up in CGY looking to play with us, but we chose not to sign him. He was able to sign a show-me deal in TO and managed to have a good season. But that is the East, and he didn't have to worry about defense, hitting, etc. The closest comparison to Frolik on our team I can think of is Backlund. Actually, a Backlund that doesn't get injured and is a little harder on the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Antione Vermette back in Arizona at $3.75-mil-per for 2-years. Great move for the Coyotes who trade rent out Vermette for a few months and gained a 1st round pick from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 So far BT has managed to address most of our weaknesses from last season, defense and RW, the next major weakness that I see that needs to be addressed in faceoffs. Monahan is improving and finished the year with 49.3%. Faceoffs have never really been a strong suit for Backlund and he finished lat year at 48.3%. Stajan is probably our best center in regards to faceoffs and he is pretty average at 50.3%. Jim Slater is one low cost solution he had 59.6 winning % last season. Even as a 4th line center Slater could help out a lot with his faceoff ability, taking faceoffs on the PK and in defensive situations late in games. Sounds like a small thing but it would go a long way in helping keeping the puck out of our net. Other options I wouldn't mind are Marcel Goc (55.1%) and Maxim Lapierre (52.4%). I dislike Lapierre as a player but the advantage with him is he is a RHS, he is well known for getting under the opponents skin and he brings size at 6'2" 215lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 No thanks to Lapierre. Not for the sole purpose of faceoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 No thanks to Lapierre. Not for the sole purpose of faceoffs. I absolutely understand where you are coming from, Lapierre is a rat and coward. He is a dirty player who turtles when it is time to pay for his actions, I can't stand him. That being said, he is solid in the circle and brings that agitating quality this team has been missing, though Ferland sure did a good of it in the playoffs. Lapierre isn't my first choice, I would much rather Slater or Goc as they better in the dot. Gaudreau/Monahan/Hudler Bennett/Backlund/Frolik Bouma/Stajan/Jones Colborne/Slater/Jooris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 You know Monahan will improve a bit, and we will see how Bennett does. Bennett plays decent enough defensively at center, it's just wait and see for face offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I absolutely understand where you are coming from, Lapierre is a rat and coward. He is a dirty player who turtles when it is time to pay for his actions, I can't stand him. That being said, he is solid in the circle and brings that agitating quality this team has been missing, though Ferland sure did a good of it in the playoffs. Lapierre isn't my first choice, I would much rather Slater or Goc as they better in the dot. Gaudreau/Monahan/Hudler Bennett/Backlund/Frolik Bouma/Stajan/Jones Colborne/Slater/Jooris I understand the need, but the aging players with good faceoff numbers aren't exactly what's going to win us games. I like to see the 4th line center position utilized for up and comers in our system. So far last year it was a great way to showcase the prospects and what they can do at the highest level. We still have yet to see Arnold, or a sizable sample in Shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 As a team last year we lost 261 more faceoffs than we won, that means we started with out the puck 261 times. Another option that I believe Kehatch brought up in a different thread would be trading for Tyler Bozak. Bozak won 53.2% of his faceoffs last year. He would fit nicely on the 2nd line as I see him as having a slightly better offensive game than Backlund. We would have to get Toronto to take a contract back though, let them choose between Stajan, Raymond or Engelland, preferably Raymond though. Gaudreau/Monahan/Hudler Bennett/Bozak/Frolik Bouma/Backlund/Jones Colborne/Stajan/Jooris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyMacAwesome Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 As a team last year we lost 261 more faceoffs than we won, that means we started with out the puck 261 times. Another option that I believe Kehatch brought up in a different thread would be trading for Tyler Bozak. Bozak won 53.2% of his faceoffs last year. He would fit nicely on the 2nd line as I see him as having a slightly better offensive game than Backlund. We would have to get Toronto to take a contract back though, let them choose between Stajan, Raymond or Engelland, preferably Raymond though. Gaudreau/Monahan/Hudler Bennett/Bozak/Frolik Bouma/Backlund/Jones Colborne/Stajan/Jooris If I was the Leafs I would jump on that. For a few reasons...we are trying to get rid of some our longer more expensive contracts for our rebuild, and Bozak is one of them. I've always liked Bozie and he has great skill in the circle. I also liked MayRay when he was a Leaf. He worked hard, and used his speed to his advantage. He was a 3rd liner for us and got 19G and 26A for 45 points. That's not a bad total, considering the team he was playing with. Now if we could re-sign Santorelli and have a line of MayRay-Santo-Winnik, I'd be happy with that, especially in Year 1 of a real rebuild. I also don't mind MayRay's contract $/term, and we still need to ice a team. I think Raymond would do well under Babs. ...Shame I'm not the GM for this trade. EDIT: I also really enjoyed Stajan's game when he started with us... so I wouldn't mind bringing him back either...Engelland can hug his own nuts though...not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 As a team last year we lost 261 more faceoffs than we won, that means we started with out the puck 261 times. Another option that I believe Kehatch brought up in a different thread would be trading for Tyler Bozak. Bozak won 53.2% of his faceoffs last year. He would fit nicely on the 2nd line as I see him as having a slightly better offensive game than Backlund. We would have to get Toronto to take a contract back though, let them choose between Stajan, Raymond or Engelland, preferably Raymond though. Gaudreau/Monahan/Hudler Bennett/Bozak/Frolik Bouma/Backlund/Jones Colborne/Stajan/Jooris I would sooner give Arnold a test drive as a centre if Bennett is not able to go into that role full-time right away. That would give you two different looks (RHS, LHS) to choose from. Aside from that, we have Jooris and Shore and Colborne to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I would sooner give Arnold a test drive as a centre if Bennett is not able to go into that role full-time right away. That would give you two different looks (RHS, LHS) to choose from. Aside from that, we have Jooris and Shore and Colborne to choose from. Generally younger players and rookies don't fare well at faceoffs, it usually takes a few seasons to get up to speed. Arnold only has half a season of pro hockey under his belt, if he comes into camp and wins a job, fantastic, but I am not counting on it. Colborne was one of our better guys in the dot but Hartley seems reluctant to play him at center. Jooris did not do well in the circle last year. Shore didn't get much of a chance and unless we start moving some forwards out I can see him being put on waivers to start the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Generally younger players and rookies don't fare well at faceoffs, it usually takes a few seasons to get up to speed. Arnold only has half a season of pro hockey under his belt, if he comes into camp and wins a job, fantastic, but I am not counting on it. Colborne was one of our better guys in the dot but Hartley seems reluctant to play him at center. Jooris did not do well in the circle last year. Shore didn't get much of a chance and unless we start moving some forwards out I can see him being put on waivers to start the season. I mentioned Arnold because he was the best face-off guy on the baby Flames last year. He has 4 years of experience in college. It's not like it is a new thing to him, but it remains to be seen how well he can do in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayen Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 In reference to JTech780 comment point on face offs - I thought Jooris had a 49% success rate. As a rookie. Seems pretty strong to me, as a rookie, if I'm accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Reg Season FO% from Flames: I don't put much stock in how they do on faceoffs in AHL or other leagues. It often does not translate the same to the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkRaving Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 I was at a luncheon a couple weeks ago where Brian Burke said that Sean Monahan had taken the second most faceoffs in the NHL last season. That says volumes about how they feel about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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