Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[conundrumed]

I think something else we have to consider is the farm. We now have some guys there we can see in our future. Outside of goal last year, I did not like our bottom 6 much.

It looks better to me, but my one complaint is that some teams can put together a solid bottom 3 forwards together for not much more than Stajan's salary alone.

In a cap world, I think that's huge.

[JTech780]

So watching the WJC two players have really stood out to me for Team Canada, Matt Barzal and Tyson Jost. The reason I mention this is because they are both players we could have had in our system. Before I go any further I want to say that I am extremely happy to have Hamilton and Tkachuk on this team and wouldn't do anything differently.

 

That being said if we didn't trade for Hamilton we could have drafted Barzal and if we didn't draft Tkachuk, Jost would have been my next pick.

 

I just like thinking about the idea of having those two dynamic skill players with speed. Tkachuk does so many good things, fills so many needs on this team, but he does lack a bit of that dynamic quality that I see in a guy like Tyson Jost. Barzal is dominating the tournament so far and is looking like an absolute steal at 16th overall.

 

Again I wouldn't do anything different and happy to have the players we have, just dreaming about that skill that could have been.

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

So watching the WJC two players have really stood out to me for Team Canada, Matt Barzal and Tyson Jost. The reason I mention this is because they are both players we could have had in our system. Before I go any further I want to say that I am extremely happy to have Hamilton and Tkachuk on this team and wouldn't do anything differently.

 

That being said if we didn't trade for Hamilton we could have drafted Barzal and if we didn't draft Tkachuk, Jost would have been my next pick.

 

I just like thinking about the idea of having those two dynamic skill players with speed. Tkachuk does so many good things, fills so many needs on this team, but he does lack a bit of that dynamic quality that I see in a guy like Tyson Jost. Barzal is dominating the tournament so far and is looking like an absolute steal at 16th overall.

 

Again I wouldn't do anything different and happy to have the players we have, just dreaming about that skill that could have been.

 

I was and have been worried about the player(s) we possibly gave up by trading our 1st for Hamilton in a deep draft. If we could shore up another top4 D for next season, I think I will be happy with what we have. 

Not having Hamilton makes me wonder where we'd be on D. 

I guess I am coming around in this one. 

 

How many dynamic players do we need? We have Johnny. Hopefully Mangiapane can develop into a complimentary dynamic player for lower lines. 

 

Right now i like how our Top6 forward pairs are shaping up.

 

Gaudreau

Monahan

Bennett

Tkackuk

 

Pair the wings with a center. 

It is a matter of getting some speedy skilled enough wingers to compliment those lines. 

 

But I, like you , want another threat. 

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

So watching the WJC two players have really stood out to me for Team Canada, Matt Barzal and Tyson Jost. The reason I mention this is because they are both players we could have had in our system. Before I go any further I want to say that I am extremely happy to have Hamilton and Tkachuk on this team and wouldn't do anything differently.

 

That being said if we didn't trade for Hamilton we could have drafted Barzal and if we didn't draft Tkachuk, Jost would have been my next pick.

 

I just like thinking about the idea of having those two dynamic skill players with speed. Tkachuk does so many good things, fills so many needs on this team, but he does lack a bit of that dynamic quality that I see in a guy like Tyson Jost. Barzal is dominating the tournament so far and is looking like an absolute steal at 16th overall.

 

Again I wouldn't do anything different and happy to have the players we have, just dreaming about that skill that could have been.

 

Not to diss the players at all, but it is WJC.  Strome had trouble making a Arizona team.  For all the skill and swagger they guys show at the junior level, they will be hard pressed to make it at the NHL level.  At this point, I would take Dougie every day.  He is NHL level, not possibly.  If the choice was Laine or Matthews, that might be a different story.

[cross16]

I get what you are saying JTech and i agree that Brazal and Jost are 2 solid players. Barzal did make the Hamilton trade sting a bit for me too. I had Barzal in my top 5 that year and was a huge fan and thougth the injury should not not have dropped him like he did and was quite shocked it did. I take Hamilton everyday of the week but missing on Barzal is something that may sting, but again using hindsight isn't fair. Treliving made the rigtht call.  

 

Hey at least we didn't trade the chance to draft Barzal for Griffen Reinhart  

 

 

[JTech780]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not to diss the players at all, but it is WJC.  Strome had trouble making a Arizona team.  For all the skill and swagger they guys show at the junior level, they will be hard pressed to make it at the NHL level.  At this point, I would take Dougie every day.  He is NHL level, not possibly.  If the choice was Laine or Matthews, that might be a different story.

Strome has been sort of underwhelming IMO, I would rather either of Barzal or Jost to Strome, as I think both those players drive the play more than Strome does.

 

I agree that I would take Dougie every day as well.

 

I was a huge fan of both Barzal and Jost in their draft years and I would love to have either on this team. That is more of what I was getting at.

 

I do think this team needs another skill player to drive offense. Gaudreau is elite at what he does, but after that we lack a bit at the ability to take over a play. Bennett has that ability but he hasn't shown it on a consistent basis as of yet. Monahan and Tkachuk are skilled players that can finish a play or make a nice pass, but they don't have that dynamic ability to possess the puck and make things happen out of nothing.

[JTech780]

Friedman was on the Fan this morning and he mentioned that Treliving doesn't have a contract past this season. Friedman thought it was strange to let Treliving go this long without an extension.

 

I think Treliving's job depends on this team making the playoffs. If that is the case, I don't necessarily agree. 

 

I think Treliving has done a good job, not a great job, not a bad job. Maybe you move on and look for great, but if you miss and end up with bad you could end up going backwards quickly.

 

Treliving has drafted well, made some good trades, did a good job re-signing his own guys. I will say he has over paid for bottom 6 and bottom pairing guys.

 

It will be interesting to see where this goes.

 

If Burke moves on from Treliving to bring in Nonis, I will be pissed.

[cross16]

I was a little surprised too although personally I think the media overrates the whole "lame duck" think. I really don't think it matters to the degree they make you seem like it does. I don't think Treliving would do more or less knowing he wasn't under contract the following season. 

 

I think he's done a very good job,. Not great sure but definetly good enough that It would make me very fearful of firing him to try and get someone else. The only negative I have on Treliving is his July 1 signings. I never understood the Raymond or Brouwer deals and iMO both were poor deals that are going to impact (and already are) his cap management. That being said I think he did well on Engelland and Chad Johnson is proving to be a steal so far (rare for July 1 deals), so at worst he is still batting around .500.  Problem though is batting .500 on July 1 can compound really quick if you get into cap problems. i'd like to see him less active on July 1 but part of that is a depth issue of the club he inherited. I also have a hard time completely blaming Raymond on him. He had been the Gm for what 2 months when that deal was signed? Raymond was very likely already on their radar at that point. 

 

I can't see Burke firing him at this point there is just too many things he's done well and he operates like I think Burke envisioned he would so it would be a huge surprise to me to see him let go. I don't see Burke being the type of guy who would only give a GM 3 years and then tie his job security to the playoffs in year 3. Yes I know he isn't "patient" but he also isn't irrational and generally if he has guys he likes, he is very loyal to them. Wouldn't surprise me if there already is a deal done and the Flames just havn't announced it. They will keep their business on that side quiet if they can.

[robrob74]

This year the team has gotten a bit tougher. So the only thing I question is, are the Flames the type of team Burke envisions? Maybe not yet. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

I can't see Burke firing him at this point there is just too many things he's done well and he operates like I think Burke envisioned he would so it would be a huge surprise to me to see him let go. I don't see Burke being the type of guy who would only give a GM 3 years and then tie his job security to the playoffs in year 3. Yes I know he isn't "patient" but he also isn't irrational and generally if he has guys he likes, he is very loyal to them. Wouldn't surprise me if there already is a deal done and the Flames just havn't announced it. They will keep their business on that side quiet if they can.

I would agree with this, the flames and BT dont seem like the types to announce GM contracts mid season. I dont see the need to announce that midseason, what difference does it make.

[MAC331]

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

This year the team has gotten a bit tougher. So the only thing I question is, are the Flames the type of team Burke envisions? Maybe not yet. 

We have to be getting close, we have some big bodies that have some talent as well in Chiasson, Brouwer, Ferland and Tkachuk. Both Monahan and Bennett have good size as well. More size is on it way from the pipeline.

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I would agree with this, the flames and BT dont seem like the types to announce GM contracts mid season. I dont see the need to announce that midseason, what difference does it make.

I think BT has done a very good job since his arrival and would expect he gets a new contract.

[AlbertaBoy12]

23 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think BT has done a very good job since his arrival and would expect he gets a new contract.

I agree completely he has. I just dont think it would be like the flames or BT to announce his contract mid season.

[conundrumed]

I hadn't heard about Colborne in quite some time, wow am I glad we didn't re-sign him. 2 goals his very first game, 1g/1a since. Healthy scratch candidate most nights...

I liked that BT let him walk, he learned his lesson with Bouma methinks!!

[travel_dude]

I think where BT needs to prove his worth is trades from this point forward.  We have needs.  We have players that need to move on.  We have prospects that will never get a chance on this team.  

[DirtyDeeds]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I think where BT needs to prove his worth is trades from this point forward.  We have needs.  We have players that need to move on.  We have prospects that will never get a chance on this team.  

maybe this is why they have not re-newed his contract yet. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I think where BT needs to prove his worth is trades from this point forward.  We have needs.  We have players that need to move on.  We have prospects that will never get a chance on this team.  

 

There are vets, yes, but if we don't want them, who will? It's not like the NHL is bustling with trades right now. It's a cap world and all GMs are handcuffed until the trade deadline. 

 

Yes we have needs. Our biggest need is a top6 forward. This is another reason why I think we need to play Bennett at wing right now. It would (hopefully) stabilize the top6 for now. 

[Jarome_Iginla12]

After that embarrassing loss it is time to fire the coach because it is clearly not working.  It is Guletzen's job to have the team ready to play and the last two games they came out flatter than a pancake 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, Jarome_Iginla12 said:

After that embarrassing loss it is time to fire the coach because it is clearly not working.  It is Guletzen's job to have the team ready to play and the last two games they came out flatter than a pancake 

I wouldn't go that far but failing to recognize Johnson's last 3 performances have been less than stellar was a fail. I think Johnson is one of the best platoon goalies in the NHL however there is a reason for this, they don't stay stellar for long runs for whatever reason. Elliott is much the same but is more the veteran and should start to see more of the action. I think the system is fine and has been working but as we witnessed last night from the opposition goaltending is very important.

[MAC331]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

There are vets, yes, but if we don't want them, who will? It's not like the NHL is bustling with trades right now. It's a cap world and all GMs are handcuffed until the trade deadline. 

 

Yes we have needs. Our biggest need is a top6 forward. This is another reason why I think we need to play Bennett at wing right now. It would (hopefully) stabilize the top6 for now. 

I think we have the players GG just has them in the wrong places IMO and this isn't up to BT. The one players that could or should be replaced on this roster is Wideman because Brodie needs someone who stabilizes him defensively.

[tmac70]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I wouldn't go that far but failing to recognize Johnson's last 3 performances have been less than stellar was a fail. I think Johnson is one of the best platoon goalies in the NHL however there is a reason for this, they don't stay stellar for long runs for whatever reason. Elliott is much the same but is more the veteran and should start to see more of the action. I think the system is fine and has been working but as we witnessed last night from the opposition goaltending is very important.

Many believed that at the start of the season average goal tending would make us a playoff contender.  There have been more games than not this club has been held in by goal tending. How may times have our dman or forwards made huge mistakes in coverage? Our d are all guilty of this, either or dman make the decision to pinch, force the play and get caught, or the forwards go 3 0n 2 and miss the net only to allow odd man rush the other way.  The issue is just not goal tending as presumed it is, players, systems and execution.

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Many believed that at the start of the season average goal tending would make us a playoff contender.  There have been more games than not this club has been held in by goal tending. How may times have our dman or forwards made huge mistakes in coverage? Our d are all guilty of this, either or dman make the decision to pinch, force the play and get caught, or the forwards go 3 0n 2 and miss the net only to allow odd man rush the other way.  The issue is just not goal tending as presumed it is, players, systems and execution.

I agree with what you are saying however it has been these lapses at different times not all the time. It all starts with solid goaltending and then the players out front executing the system they are being asked to play. Every team makes mistakes and most mistakes at the NHL level end up in the net unless the goaltender comes up huge. When you get down 3-0 in first 5 minutes of a game the chances are your mates out front are going to take some chances offensively they wouldn't normally.

[tmac70]

58 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I agree with what you are saying however it has been these lapses at different times not all the time. It all starts with solid goaltending and then the players out front executing the system they are being asked to play. Every team makes mistakes and most mistakes at the NHL level end up in the net unless the goaltender comes up huge. When you get down 3-0 in first 5 minutes of a game the chances are your mates out front are going to take some chances offensively they wouldn't normally.

Granted Johnson was not his best but, really even GG agreed only 1 of those was on Johnson. As for mistakes it happens but it is the poor decisions of the players that is more glaring which is concerning. NJ, NSH, last night or dman make several rookies decisions which create good scoring chances. Forwards passing when they should shoot shooting when they should pass, missing the net. Last night how many times did JG enters the zone with ZERO support. Really take time and space from anyone and they can't preform.

 

This has been a common trend in past few weeks, you could see it coming, When this was winning they played a simple game. I have stated multiple times the players excelling this year play a simple game.

[AlbertaBoy12]

9 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Granted Johnson was not his best but, really even GG agreed only 1 of those was on Johnson. As for mistakes it happens but it is the poor decisions of the players that is more glaring which is concerning. NJ, NSH, last night or dman make several rookies decisions which create good scoring chances. Forwards passing when they should shoot shooting when they should pass, missing the net. Last night how many times did JG enters the zone with ZERO support. Really take time and space from anyone and they can't preform.

 

This has been a common trend in past few weeks, you could see it coming, When this was winning they played a simple game. I have stated multiple times the players excelling this year play a simple game.

I agree with you completely. Dont take what I said in the GDT last night the wrong way, im just frustrated as well.

 

Moving on though the teams plays well for the most part, but they just make these huge mistakes that are costing them goals. How many times last night did did we see JG turn it over at the opponents blue line, I know hes trying to create but this is killing us. The list goes on and on of personal mistakes, as in ferland losing his coverage last night on 2? or was it 3 goals? I dont remember. Anyways my point is you can see what GG wants them to do, we have seen what GG wants from the team, but its frustrating when these guys like kevin last night have these weird mental lapses that lead to goals.

 

Its totally on the players at this point, I dont get their issues.

[MAC331]

46 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Granted Johnson was not his best but, really even GG agreed only 1 of those was on Johnson. As for mistakes it happens but it is the poor decisions of the players that is more glaring which is concerning. NJ, NSH, last night or dman make several rookies decisions which create good scoring chances. Forwards passing when they should shoot shooting when they should pass, missing the net. Last night how many times did JG enters the zone with ZERO support. Really take time and space from anyone and they can't preform.

 

This has been a common trend in past few weeks, you could see it coming, When this was winning they played a simple game. I have stated multiple times the players excelling this year play a simple game.

tmac you could sit back and pick apart every team if you really wanted to, the mistakes that are made lead to more of the goals than actual pretty planned ones. One of the greatest assets you can have as a hockey player is the anticipation of where the puck is going or where it is going to be. Great goalies have great anticipation even as their own players make mistakes. Passers need to know where their team mates are going to be or heading to in order to be effective. Gaudreau is not using his line mates and therefore is drawing all the attention onto himself. No it doesn't help when others wait around at the blue line to see if he is entering or making a circle back to try again. I agree we were doing well when everyone was keeping it simple and it is the coaches not just GG to recognize when the players are getting away from the system but also when a goalie is losing focus.