Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

We only see the surface stuff and not whether he works hard behind the scenes however he has done some good here. Outside of Bouma I think he has done a good job keeping contracts in a good place. He has put together some decent trades gathering picks and using picks to obtain players like Hamilton and Elliott. You never bat 1000 as a GM but I think he has the team in good shape and heading in a good direction. I think this franchise needs to settle in with these changes and not be making any more management changes or coaching changes for a while.

 

I only wonder, does his plan seem to be apparent? Burke wants a heavy, in your face team. I don't see that yet. 

Other posters have pointed to stats saying we are a hitting team. I don't buy that we are imposing. We aren't fully soft, but there was that talk on redemption for Geaudreau from the fans and media. I'm that sense, I almost consider us soft. Up until recently we rarely ever make the other team pay when they take extra whacks at the puck on our goalies, or even slightly bump them. So I still think we are soft in those departments. 

 

Cant say that isnt isn't allowed anymore, we are always on our back when we do it. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

 What has he done that solidifies he should be granted one?  IMHO he has done nothing to warrant a decision either way.

 

 

 

Wins a majority of his trades. Gets very good value out of pending UFAs because he learns the market. 

Hamilton trade

Almost every extension he has signed has been at market value, maybe even less 

Last two drafts have been very promising. 

Has a blueprint and is following it. 

Extremely hard worker, which is why I think he avoids getting fleeced in deals or making bad ones. 

 

Of all the things you want a GM to do well he does them and if you actually look at it there are very few negatives he's done. Good far out weighs the bad and the flames are potentially looking at 2 trips in 3 years to the playoffs during a rebuild. That's fantastic.

[MAC331]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

 

From the last paragraph, maybe that is the point. What is BT's plan? 

 

Has he worked to it, or is it visible so far? Do we know where this team is headed? 

 

From what I see, BT is a way better Feaster. We've seen a lot of skill in the moves and hardly any weight (size). We hit, but aren't really an imposing team just yet, and aren't hard to play against. 

I don't know who's decision it was but I think drafting Tkachuk will prove to be brilliant. He will eventually give us that size forward with some skill and hockey smarts to go with the other skilled players. Hamilton was another great move. The one I like a lot is Frolik, he is unheralded in bringing the best out in both Backlund and Tkachuk. The huge move was the decision to change up the coaching and the style of hockey to be played. If this doesn't show the direction he wants the team to go in I don't know what does. He has had to tread water with our goaltending but at least he tried to give the team a veteran in Hiller to have some confidence with the possibilities of Ramos and Ortio as youth to grow on. None of this worked out but it wasn't a bad way to go. Elliott and Johnson has provided us marginally better goaltending, neither was a bad decision. How he uses this offseason will be key for this franchise IMO and I can't think of anyone else I would want guiding us. I certainly don't want to see a GM change.

[DirtyDeeds]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I think the big question with GMs always is if they arent doing anything stupid what exactly does a guy like lombardi do that is such a huge upgrade? A gm isent like a coach where you are going to get some huge upgrade. A GMs job is to manage the cap, make sound trades and help the team get better players for the coach to do his job. I think the arguement would be has BT done a good job with those things. BT was an upgrade on feaster because he wasnt the greatest hockey mind, but is someone like lombardi going to be a huge upgrade, I dont see why.

 

BT has made some good trades, the hamilton one comes to mind first and foremost obviously, but even the russell trade was a good one. Has he made some mistakes ie the signing of engelland or brouwer sure, but these arent big mistakes and really they arent costing the team anything at this point. 

 

A GM is someone you can keep around for years if he has a plan and isent doing anything dumb, bowman in chicago has made some dumb choices, but he just keeps trucking along because hes winning cups. But some of his choices havent been very smart ie giving Bickell big money.

If you think that Engelland and Brouwer are his biggest mistakes then you have some huge blinders on.

 

Mason Raymond - We are still paying for this mistake and will pay next year too.

Devin Setoguchi - Dores anyone think he was a good aquisition now?

Brandon Bolig - another mistake buried in the minors.

 

these 3 come to mind right off, there are more..

[AlbertaBoy12]

Just now, DirtyDeeds said:

If you think that Engelland and Brouwer are his biggest mistakes then you have some huge blinders on.

 

Mason Raymond - We are still paying for this mistake and will pay next year too.

Devin Setoguchi - Dores anyone think he was a good aq

Brandon Bolig

why was devin setoguchi a mistake? Did I miss something on a one year tryout that didnt work out? crazy big mistake there.

 

Mason raymond was coming off a pretty good comeback season in toronto, no one could have predicted he would have fallen off, oh well buyouts happen.

 

Brandon bollig, was the mistake trading a 3rd for him, I can forgive this it happened a month after he was the GM, not the end of the world, not a huge mistake.

[MAC331]

22 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

why was devin setoguchi a mistake? Did I miss something on a one year tryout that didnt work out? crazy big mistake there.

 

Mason raymond was coming off a pretty good comeback season in toronto, no one could have predicted he would have fallen off, oh well buyouts happen.

 

Brandon bollig, was the mistake trading a 3rd for him, I can forgive this it happened a month after he was the GM, not the end of the world, not a huge mistake.

I agree, what some people choose to go on about amazes me. When you are any team beginning a rebuild only so many UFAs even want to come so Raymond looked to be on a good road. I don't think he was ever used properly here, if there was an error on BT's part it was the 3rd year but sometimes you have to in attracting the player at all. Setogushi IMO wasn't necessary but we were thin on RW, everyone tries to catch lightning in a bottle at times. I actually thought Bollig was a reasonable signing, we needed some toughness and when he played in CHI I thought his hockey wasn't bad. I think he took his spot here a little to much for granted. As I have said I wouldn't mind Bollig coming up and Bouma going down.

[robrob74]

I predicted Raymond falling off. I hated that acquisition from the moment anyone on this message board suggested signing him. That was before BT got him. 

 

He was always a soft streaky player who overachieved in one season.

 

Engelland wasn't a mistake. He is slightly overpaid, but even this season, he was our best defender for the first 20 games and is still playing well. 

 

My ideas for his mistakes are:

Raymond

Bollig

Bouma

 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I predicted Raymond falling off. I hated that acquisition from the moment anyone on this message board suggested signing him. That was before BT got him. 

 

He was always a soft streaky player who overachieved in one season.

 

Engelland wasn't a mistake. He is slightly overpaid, but even this season, he was our best defender for the first 20 games and is still playing well. 

 

My ideas for his mistakes are:

Raymond

Bollig

Bouma

 

All minor in the big scheme of things.

[robrob74]

For me, the biggest thing would be is, from upper management, are the Flames playing a brand of hockey they want to play?

[cross16]

Treliving has his mistakes no doubt but they are all minor. 

 

Raymond 

bouma- which he quickly leaned from and didn't repeat with Colborne. 

A 2 year deal for Hiller. 

I think the Brouwer contract will be a mistake but at the end of the day I can see why he wanted to add that leadership element. I'm not in the room so I can't say this is a mistake if I don't know what Brouwer impact there has been. 

I also don't consider Bolig a mistake. A 3rd in a non deep draft for a guy who kept your young stars safe for 2 season really isn't a mistake imo. 

 

If those are your mistakes in 3 season you deserve an extension. 

 

[robrob74]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Treliving has his mistakes no doubt but they are all minor. 

 

Raymond 

bouma- which he quickly leaned from and didn't repeat with Colborne. 

A 2 year deal for Hiller. 

I think the Brouwer contract will be a mistake but at the end of the day I can see why he wanted to add that leadership element. I'm not in the room so I can't say this is a mistake if I don't know what Brouwer impact there has been. 

I also don't consider Bolig a mistake. A 3rd in a non deep draft for a guy who kept your young stars safe for 2 season really isn't a mistake imo. 

 

If those are your mistakes in 3 season you deserve an extension. 

 

 

I did see a difference in how teams treated the Flames after both Bollig and Engelland were signed. 

[tmac70]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Wins a majority of his trades. Gets very good value out of pending UFAs because he learns the market. 

Hamilton trade

Almost every extension he has signed has been at market value, maybe even less 

Last two drafts have been very promising. 

Has a blueprint and is following it. 

Extremely hard worker, which is why I think he avoids getting fleeced in deals or making bad ones. 

 

Of all the things you want a GM to do well he does them and if you actually look at it there are very few negatives he's done. Good far out weighs the bad and the flames are potentially looking at 2 trips in 3 years to the playoffs during a rebuild. That's fantastic.

 The 1st trip to the playoffs was by your words a fluke and had nothing to do with Trevling. You have also stated that this team is average at best which is on Trevling. Trevling has picked 4th and 6th, both Bennett and Chucky were no rocket science picks.

 

Hamilton and contracts of our key guys are good, Bouma, Stajan, Brower, Engeland were bad. The blue print yeah what is that? I thought he wanted bigger, harder to play against, not even close. I agree on 2 points, he has not been bad but he also has done nothing that has solidified him as GM of the year either.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 The 1st trip to the playoffs was by your words a fluke and had nothing to do with Trevling. You have also stated that this team is average at best which is on Trevling. Trevling has picked 4th and 6th, both Bennett and Chucky were no rocket science picks.

 

Hamilton and contracts of our key guys are good, Bouma, Stajan, Brower, Engeland were bad. The blue print yeah what is that? I thought he wanted bigger, harder to play against, not even close. I agree on 2 points, he has not been bad but he also has done nothing that has solidified him as GM of the year either.

 

He also traded a first to get Hamilton and then maybe nailed the later round picks, yet to see. 

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 The 1st trip to the playoffs was by your words a fluke and had nothing to do with Trevling. You have also stated that this team is average at best which is on Trevling. Trevling has picked 4th and 6th, both Bennett and Chucky were no rocket science picks.

 

Hamilton and contracts of our key guys are good, Bouma, Stajan, Brower, Engeland were bad. The blue print yeah what is that? I thought he wanted bigger, harder to play against, not even close. I agree on 2 points, he has not been bad but he also has done nothing that has solidified him as GM of the year either.

 

If your benchmark is he need to be GM of the year sure but good luck continuing to search for that. Point is he's been very good so why let someone go who has been very good? Very easy for flames to hire someone worse. 

1- no ive never called it a fluke. It was an unsustainable year and not repeatable. Fluke is not my word. If Treliving doesn't sign Engelland and Hiller they don't make the playoffs so yes he had Something to do with it. 

2- because I don't think they are a playoff team on paper I say they are average? I didn't think they were a playoff team in paper because of depth on D (something Treliving has already addressed BTW) and they are a young team that I thought would go throw too many growing pains. Also didn't think young players like Tkachuk, Ferland, Bennett were going to give them enough. They have more than average talent but I didn't think it would come together but thst does bit mean I think Treliving has done av average job. 

3- stajan was signed by Burke not treiving. Engelland was not a bad signing. 

4- he signed Brouwer, Chiasson,and traded for Stone all of which have made them harder to play against. Teams are not built overnight, especially when you still need to be skilled. I think there is no question the flames are harder to play against this year than last. 

 

In terms of the draft keep in mind that flames just sent 3 players to the world juniors that were picked in the last draft. That's very uncommon and a sign the flames have injected more skill into their system which is the change I have noticed under Treliving. Bennett and Tkachuk were smal dunk picks, but it's the later rounds that I'm referring too. 

[rickross]

There were a lot of pieces that fell into place during that playoff run. They worked hard but had a lot of luck to get them there. The ridiculous amount of comebacks that year, solid goaltending from both Hiller and Ramo, teams like the Kings having off years....it was just the perfect opportunity for a rebuilding franchise. It earned Hartley an award, and made BT look like a genius early on in his tenure. 

 

BT has been smart in terms of balancing now and the future, Raymond and Bollig weren't great signings but the market set Raymond's price and the team was desperate for toughness/experience when they inked Bollig. It's not Trelivings fault they didn't pan out but the contracts are bad no matter how u look at them. Overall his moves have been positive for the franchise...Flames fans have really enjoyed a shorter and more successful rebuild then many other teams

[DirtyDeeds]

55 minutes ago, rickross said:

There were a lot of pieces that fell into place during that playoff run. They worked hard but had a lot of luck to get them there. The ridiculous amount of comebacks that year, solid goaltending from both Hiller and Ramo, teams like the Kings having off years....it was just the perfect opportunity for a rebuilding franchise. It earned Hartley an award, and made BT look like a genius early on in his tenure. 

 

BT has been smart in terms of balancing now and the future, Raymond and Bollig weren't great signings but the market set Raymond's price and the team was desperate for toughness/experience when they inked Bollig. It's not Trelivings fault they didn't pan out but the contracts are bad no matter how u look at them. Overall his moves have been positive for the franchise...Flames fans have really enjoyed a shorter and more successful rebuild then many other teams

We all know that the Owners have put one caveat on the Flames each year. That we ice a playoff capable team. 

 

If this is the case then how can you say BT has been successful when he really had little to do with the 1 flames playoff run we have had under his supervision?

 

In the end our opinion of how well BT has done his job is moot. What matters is how well the Owners think he has done his job. Because of this goal set by Owners this season may be the deciding factor on his contract extension.

[rickross]

5 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

We all know that the Owners have put one caveat on the Flames each year. That we ice a playoff capable team. 

 

If this is the case then how can you say BT has been successful when he really had little to do with the 1 flames playoff run we have had under his supervision?

 

In the end our opinion of how well BT has done his job is moot. What matters is how well the Owners think he has done his job. Because of this goal set by Owners this season may be the deciding factor on his contract extension.

I never said BT was the reason for the successful playoff run, he benefited from adopting a trending team that year...all I said is it made him look like a genius during his rookie year. Management has mandated an annual playoff berth as they should...why aim for anything less. Management aren't stupid I'm sure they can be realistic with their expectations, Burke and BT were hired to see thru a rebuild not take over an existing Stanley Cup contending team. If they were that short sighted and rigid why didn't they fire BH AND BT last year when they failed to make the playoffs? Even with him hiring a new coach you'd expect management would have an understanding that it would take time to for things to gel with the team, and as it stands the Flames are right in the playoff hunt just as management mandated. He's not necessarily a guarantee to be resigned but he hasn't given them many reasons to not extend him

[MAC331]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

If your benchmark is he need to be GM of the year sure but good luck continuing to search for that. Point is he's been very good so why let someone go who has been very good? Very easy for flames to hire someone worse. 

1- no ive never called it a fluke. It was an unsustainable year and not repeatable. Fluke is not my word. If Treliving doesn't sign Engelland and Hiller they don't make the playoffs so yes he had Something to do with it. 

2- because I don't think they are a playoff team on paper I say they are average? I didn't think they were a playoff team in paper because of depth on D (something Treliving has already addressed BTW) and they are a young team that I thought would go throw too many growing pains. Also didn't think young players like Tkachuk, Ferland, Bennett were going to give them enough. They have more than average talent but I didn't think it would come together but thst does bit mean I think Treliving has done av average job. 

3- stajan was signed by Burke not treiving. Engelland was not a bad signing. 

4- he signed Brouwer, Chiasson,and traded for Stone all of which have made them harder to play against. Teams are not built overnight, especially when you still need to be skilled. I think there is no question the flames are harder to play against this year than last. 

 

In terms of the draft keep in mind that flames just sent 3 players to the world juniors that were picked in the last draft. That's very uncommon and a sign the flames have injected more skill into their system which is the change I have noticed under Treliving. Bennett and Tkachuk were smal dunk picks, but it's the later rounds that I'm referring too. 

TMAC wants to drink from the Stanley Cup nothing else matters.

[DirtyDeeds]

28 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

TMAC wants to drink from the Stanley Cup nothing else matters.

Me too..... Make it so...

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Me too..... Make it so...

I predict the 2019/2020 season, there ya go.

[Khrox]

I'm really hoping we extend Tre sooner rather than later. I assume they are waiting until playoffs for now, but I really doubt that we are getting a GM better than him coming along. 

He has made some mistakes (Raymond was definitely a year too long), but at the same time, any first time GM is going to make mistakes. Any GM, regardless of experience, makes mistakes (anyone remember the Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg trade?). But overall, Tre has been pretty good. The Engelland signing was little expensive, but he has worked out pretty darn well for us (and the expense was probably necessary to get a few more free agents to come to Calgary at the time. We weren't exactly expecting to make the playoffs that year, or projected to be anywhere close to it). Bollig was a sideways move. The Bouma signing wasn't great, but the Monahan and Gaudreau signings were far better than expected. The Dougie trade and signing was grade A. Frolik was a solid pickup. Elliot and Johnson, were good moves. Even bringing in Hiller was good at the time (sure his second year was crap, but I don't think anyone saw him being anywhere near as bad as he was that year). The Gio signing is yet to be really seen. It looked good at the time, still looks alright, but the last half we will see. GG has been a pretty good pickup as coach. The first 15-20 are rough, but anytime there is a coaching change (and especially with a completely different style) is going to take a bit of getting used to. But, overall, he has been far more beneficial to our rebuild than not. Including the draft. Sure Tkachuk and Bennett were sort of "no-brainers" at that point, but look at the depth moves. Kylington, Andersson, Mangiapane and Parsons? Those were good second+ round picks that could have gone a different way. I'd say he has earned it.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Khrox said:

I'm really hoping we extend Tre sooner rather than later. I assume they are waiting until playoffs for now, but I really doubt that we are getting a GM better than him coming along. 

He has made some mistakes (Raymond was definitely a year too long), but at the same time, any first time GM is going to make mistakes. Any GM, regardless of experience, makes mistakes (anyone remember the Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg trade?). But overall, Tre has been pretty good. The Engelland signing was little expensive, but he has worked out pretty darn well for us (and the expense was probably necessary to get a few more free agents to come to Calgary at the time. We weren't exactly expecting to make the playoffs that year, or projected to be anywhere close to it). Bollig was a sideways move. The Bouma signing wasn't great, but the Monahan and Gaudreau signings were far better than expected. The Dougie trade and signing was grade A. Frolik was a solid pickup. Elliot and Johnson, were good moves. Even bringing in Hiller was good at the time (sure his second year was crap, but I don't think anyone saw him being anywhere near as bad as he was that year). The Gio signing is yet to be really seen. It looked good at the time, still looks alright, but the last half we will see. GG has been a pretty good pickup as coach. The first 15-20 are rough, but anytime there is a coaching change (and especially with a completely different style) is going to take a bit of getting used to. But, overall, he has been far more beneficial to our rebuild than not. Including the draft. Sure Tkachuk and Bennett were sort of "no-brainers" at that point, but look at the depth moves. Kylington, Andersson, Mangiapane and Parsons? Those were good second+ round picks that could have gone a different way. I'd say he has earned it.

 

I wish we traded Glencross for Forsberg instead of them going for Erat. I always wonder if that could have been done. Imagine what Washington would look like now with Forsberg on their team. 

[tmac70]

5 hours ago, Khrox said:

I'm really hoping we extend Tre sooner rather than later. I assume they are waiting until playoffs for now, but I really doubt that we are getting a GM better than him coming along. 

He has made some mistakes (Raymond was definitely a year too long), but at the same time, any first time GM is going to make mistakes. Any GM, regardless of experience, makes mistakes (anyone remember the Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg trade?). But overall, Tre has been pretty good. The Engelland signing was little expensive, but he has worked out pretty darn well for us (and the expense was probably necessary to get a few more free agents to come to Calgary at the time. We weren't exactly expecting to make the playoffs that year, or projected to be anywhere close to it). Bollig was a sideways move. The Bouma signing wasn't great, but the Monahan and Gaudreau signings were far better than expected. The Dougie trade and signing was grade A. Frolik was a solid pickup. Elliot and Johnson, were good moves. Even bringing in Hiller was good at the time (sure his second year was crap, but I don't think anyone saw him being anywhere near as bad as he was that year). The Gio signing is yet to be really seen. It looked good at the time, still looks alright, but the last half we will see. GG has been a pretty good pickup as coach. The first 15-20 are rough, but anytime there is a coaching change (and especially with a completely different style) is going to take a bit of getting used to. But, overall, he has been far more beneficial to our rebuild than not. Including the draft. Sure Tkachuk and Bennett were sort of "no-brainers" at that point, but look at the depth moves. Kylington, Andersson, Mangiapane and Parsons? Those were good second+ round picks that could have gone a different way. I'd say he has earned it.

Trevling has a staff of scouts that provide him with a selection process of who they prefer, so it wasn't Trevling per say did not personally select the prospects it was his staff. Look I have no issue with Trevling but really he hasn't been good and he hasn't been bad. The issue I have is that when hired Burke and he wanted a larger more physical team and hard to play against but the prospect selection is contradictory to that plan, not sure what the plan is now

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Trevling has a staff of scouts that provide him with a selection process of who they prefer, so it wasn't Trevling per say did not personally select the prospects it was his staff. Look I have no issue with Trevling but really he hasn't been good and he hasn't been bad. The issue I have is that when hired Burke and he wanted a larger more physical team and hard to play against but the prospect selection is contradictory to that plan, not sure what the plan is now

This team first needed some skill added and the draft allowed BT and scouting staff (yes) to make those selections. Becoming big and truculent is and should be secondary to having the necessary skill for scoring. We have gradually gotten bigger although we have not gotten tougher with the adding of Hamilton, Brouwer and Chiasson. This team as a ways to go to have an ideal mix but I don't believe the truculent thought as been abandoned.

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

Big and tough is necessary but so is speed and skill. We need all of it. If BT doesn't come back next year on a new contract then we do have very medalsom owners that have no patience and we are all doomed.