Jiri Hudler

[MAC331]

Hudler is a guy you keep if he is willing to sign the right contract. He covers a position of need, he has great chemistry with our stars, and he is good with the kids in general.

But we can't sign him to a 6+ million dollar contract. We can't keep Giordano, Hamilton, Bennett, Gaudreau, Monahan, and Hudler at 6 million plus. We simply can't afford that. At some point you have to make decisions on who to keep and who to move.

If Hudler wants a big contract we have to move him. But if he takes less get that contract signed stat.

I agree you can't go any higher than 5M and I would only do a 3 year deal.

[TrippinVdUb]

I think you hold on to Hudler until the moment he becomes redundant and somebody steps up and takes his place, as soon as you see him start taking a less prominent role and starts to move down the depth chart is when you pull the trigger and part ways. With the way his season went last year, his chemistry and leadership with the youngsters, I dont know why you would disturb that this early in the rebuild? You can hold on to Jiri for at least another season or two and let him carry some of the work load for the less experienced forwards while they mature and find there way.

[cross16]

I think you hold on to Hudler until the moment he becomes redundant and somebody steps up and takes his place, as soon as you see him start taking a less prominent role and starts to move down the depth chart is when you pull the trigger and part ways. With the way his season went last year, his chemistry and leadership with the youngsters, I dont know why you would disturb that this early in the rebuild? You can hold on to Jiri for at least another season or two and let him carry some of the work load for the less experienced forwards while they mature and find there way.

 

Problem there is he is a free agent next offseason. What if he demands 7 mill? what if its 6 mill? Do you sign him to any amount? Does he want only 1 or 2 year contracts? Probably not. It's not as easy as simply hanging onto him until you don't need him there is a large issue of the contract.

 

The plus side for the Flames right now is it appears to me the league is bracing for the reality that the cap is not going to jump up every year like it did in the last CBA. Teams seem to becoming more fiscally prudent so there is a chance that Hudler's price doesn't go crazy on them like it may have in the prior to CBA. I think if the Flames can get him for under 6 million they should consider it but if his price is going to be north of 6 mill you have to move him.

[TrippinVdUb]

Problem there is he is a free agent next offseason. What if he demands 7 mill? what if its 6 mill? Do you sign him to any amount? Does he want only 1 or 2 year contracts? Probably not. It's not as easy as simply hanging onto him until you don't need him there is a large issue of the contract.

 

The plus side for the Flames right now is it appears to me the league is bracing for the reality that the cap is not going to jump up every year like it did in the last CBA. Teams seem to becoming more fiscally prudent so there is a chance that Hudler's price doesn't go crazy on them like it may have in the prior to CBA. I think if the Flames can get him for under 6 million they should consider it but if his price is going to be north of 6 mill you have to move him.

Your 100% correct and in almost every case the player cashes in and takes the payday...

 

I know all i can do at this point is speculate, but I just don't see that happening... Huddler talks about coming to Calgary and helping build something bigger then himself, He wants to be our Datysuk or Zetterberg and looked upon as a leader. I think he takes a decent value deal to stay in Calgary for the long haul... but that's just a gut feeling and we will see when its comes time for his agent and Brad to talk #'$!

[The_People1]

Depending on where we are at TDL, i think we can use Hudler like the Coyotes used Vermette.  "Rent" him out for a 1st round pick.  Sign him back in the summer.

[FlamesLogic]

The window is closing for that type of gambit. You do it most on the downswing of a build, now its all about getting better as a team to take the jump from maybe making playoffs to maybe beating teams.

With the adds of Frolik and Hamilton the expectation is that Flames at least make the playoffs again this year and Hudler would be needed to make some noise if they do make it. So unless things go majorly off the rails early in the season where we are not able to get back in to it, the value of Hudler to stay and help the team grow in the playoffs is greater than any pick we may get back.

[travel_dude]

Depending on where we are at TDL, i think we can use Hudler like the Coyotes used Vermette.  "Rent" him out for a 1st round pick.  Sign him back in the summer.

 

I know you are suggesting this move if we are basically out of the playoffs, but look at last March where Hudler was the top scoring forward in the NHL for the month.  If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have made the playoffs.  If we are firmly in the playoffs at TDL, there is no way you trade him.  He had a less effective playoffs than you would have expected, but most of that was due to injuries felt in the last few games.

 

I think Hudler enjoys it here and will re-sign this year to a reasonable contract.  He wants to continue to play with the likes of Johnny and Mony and Benny, so his demands will not jeopardize losing any of those.  He is smart enough to realize that his points came from playing with Johnny, and later Mony.

[The_People1]

Depending on where we are at TDL, i think we can use Hudler like the Coyotes used Vermette.  "Rent" him out for a 1st round pick.  Sign him back in the summer.

 

Yes, thus, if we're out of a playoff spot at the TDL, then we can be sellers and Hudler should get us a 1st, if not more.  There's also Russell and Jones who can be trade assets at the same time.

 

I know expectations are sky high and i expect the Flames to make the playoffs next season personally.  The Canucks "should" fall a bit and i think the Kings are back in the playoffs.  So, the 3 seeds from the Pacific Division should be the Ducks, Flames, and Kings.  The Canucks and Sharks will fight it out for the wildcard against the Central Division teams.

 

But you never know.  The Canucks were suppose to miss the playoffs last year but didn't.  The Sharks still have a good enough team to make the playoffs.  The Oilers will improve on their 62-point season, maybe up to 92-points and miss the playoffs but cause enough distrubance to pull everybody else within range.

[travel_dude]

Yes, thus, if we're out of a playoff spot at the TDL, then we can be sellers and Hudler should get us a 1st, if not more.  There's also Russell and Jones who can be trade assets at the same time.

 

I know expectations are sky high and i expect the Flames to make the playoffs next season personally.  The Canucks "should" fall a bit and i think the Kings are back in the playoffs.  So, the 3 seeds from the Pacific Division should be the Ducks, Flames, and Kings.  The Canucks and Sharks will fight it out for the wildcard against the Central Division teams.

 

But you never know.  The Canucks were suppose to miss the playoffs last year but didn't.  The Sharks still have a good enough team to make the playoffs.  The Oilers will improve on their 62-point season, maybe up to 92-points and miss the playoffs but cause enough distrubance to pull everybody else within range.

 

My expectations are the same.  If we are out of the playoffs, there will be a group of players going.  If we are still in, I think Engelland and Raymond are all in play.  If Jones is passed by Poirier, then we may see Jones on the block regardless.  I am actually surprised Jones had as good a year as he did.  If he is still in the mix come TDL, it may make sense to extend him for a reasonable amount.

 

My feeling about vets is that you keep them around to insulate the kids.  If they outperform the kids, then you extend them.  Does it make sense to sign someone else for the same money as extending Jones (at a reduced amount)?  Same for Hudler.  Do you try to find someone to make up for his 50+ points for $5m+ or extend a guy that fits the culture.

 

Hudler has found a niche here.  He puts up good points.  He earns a Lady Byng trophy.  He gets along with his team-mates.  The money is good considering his age, not great.  Does he want to get traded to a lesser team?  Or would he prefer the security of a stable homelife (now that he has another baby).  If I had to guess, the Flames will lock him up for $5.75m. 

[MAC331]

My expectations are the same.  If we are out of the playoffs, there will be a group of players going.  If we are still in, I think Engelland and Raymond are all in play.  If Jones is passed by Poirier, then we may see Jones on the block regardless.  I am actually surprised Jones had as good a year as he did.  If he is still in the mix come TDL, it may make sense to extend him for a reasonable amount.

 

My feeling about vets is that you keep them around to insulate the kids.  If they outperform the kids, then you extend them.  Does it make sense to sign someone else for the same money as extending Jones (at a reduced amount)?  Same for Hudler.  Do you try to find someone to make up for his 50+ points for $5m+ or extend a guy that fits the culture.

 

Hudler has found a niche here.  He puts up good points.  He earns a Lady Byng trophy.  He gets along with his team-mates.  The money is good considering his age, not great.  Does he want to get traded to a lesser team?  Or would he prefer the security of a stable homelife (now that he has another baby).  If I had to guess, the Flames will lock him up for $5.75m. 

That is a good number for him.

[travel_dude]

That is a good number for him.

Can you pass that opinion on to Hudler's agent?

 

[The_People1]

Hudler has found a niche here.  He puts up good points.  He earns a Lady Byng trophy.  He gets along with his team-mates.  The money is good considering his age, not great.  Does he want to get traded to a lesser team?  Or would he prefer the security of a stable homelife (now that he has another baby).  If I had to guess, the Flames will lock him up for $5.75m. 

 

It depends what his asking price is.  He was Top 10 in scoring this past season and if he's up there again, then $7-mil-per seems like a reasonable asking price and it's something the Flames should shy away from.

 

I always go back to Martin Havlat the year he won the Blackhawk's Player of The Year Award as voted by his teammates.  That summer, it was goodbye Havlat, Hello Hossa, and Hello Stanley Cups...  The rest was history.  So anyways, don't be afraid of change.

[Flame111]

Hudler will be a Domino here / it depends on what happens with Gio. A big contract from Gio will likely push Hudler out but if Gio can not be signed, room for Hudler will be created. 

Hudler has a place on the Flames and in the top 6 if Gio is not signed the Flames will be able to fit Hudler in. Conversely if huge dollars go to Gio, can't see how a 60 pt Hudler takes the discount that will be needed by the Cap to fit in. 

 

Interesting summer ahead... 

[travel_dude]

It depends what his asking price is.  He was Top 10 in scoring this past season and if he's up there again, then $7-mil-per seems like a reasonable asking price and it's something the Flames should shy away from.

 

I always go back to Martin Havlat the year he won the Blackhawk's Player of The Year Award as voted by his teammates.  That summer, it was goodbye Havlat, Hello Hossa, and Hello Stanley Cups...  The rest was history.  So anyways, don't be afraid of change.

 

If the team has only enough to fit him in at $5.75 over a 5-year term, he will need to chose between perpetual moving or a stable $5.75m retirement contract.  He will get traded to the highest bidder otherwise, and have to hope the FA signings are superior to the offer he turned down.

[kehatch]

If you sign Hudler and Giordano to big contracts your putting us in a horrible situation. Chicago just lost Saad and Boston just lost Hamilton because they did that to themselves. Are people not paying attention to the cobtracts Saad, Hamilton, Tarasenko, O'Reilly, etc are all getting? Did we not just see that the cap isn't going to sky rocket every season?

You can't afford to pay Giordano and Hudler and Monahan and Bennett and Gaudreau and Hamilton 5 million plus contracts. One of those guys has to go. You can't keep them all.

[travel_dude]

If you sign Hudler and Giordano to big contracts your putting us in a horrible situation. Chicago just lost Saad and Boston just lost Hamilton because they did that to themselves. Are people not paying attention to the cobtracts Saad, Hamilton, Tarasenko, O'Reilly, etc are all getting? Did we not just see that the cap isn't going to sky rocket every season?

You can't afford to pay Giordano and Hudler and Monahan and Bennett and Gaudreau and Hamilton 5 million plus contracts. One of those guys has to go. You can't keep them all.

 

You can choose to pay for a top 6 like Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang/Hornquist/Fleury or Toews/Kane/Hoss/Keith/Seabrook/Crawford and try to fit the rest of the team in under the cap.  You can choose to trade away player that are getting expensive before you have done any real damage in the playoffs.  Chicago has been able to do it without losing core guys.  Pittsburg has good scoring, but Fleury (in my mind) has held them back.

 

Losing any one of Hudler, Frolik, Gio, Wideman, Brodie, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett makes you a lesser team.  We defied the odds to make it in the playoffs this year, so Bringing in Frolik and Hamilton puts up in better contention to make the playoffs this year.

 

I'm not saying it will be easy, but inking these guys to the right contract is imperative to moving up in the league.  We have enough periphery guys that don't need to be kept, or could be replaced by prospects without major impact to the team's success.  Subtract Engelland, Bollig, Raymond, Jones, and Smid and we still have the majority of our impact players.  Replace Stajan and Russell internally (in time) and you are nowhere near the cap.  That is to say assuming you don't sign Gio to $8.5m AAV, Bouma to $3m AAV, and Hudler to $7m AAV. 

[kehatch]

You can choose to pay for a top 6 like Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang/Hornquist/Fleury or Toews/Kane/Hoss/Keith/Seabrook/Crawford and try to fit the rest of the team in under the cap.  You can choose to trade away player that are getting expensive before you have done any real damage in the playoffs.  Chicago has been able to do it without losing core guys.  Pittsburg has good scoring, but Fleury (in my mind) has held them back.

 

Losing any one of Hudler, Frolik, Gio, Wideman, Brodie, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett makes you a lesser team.  We defied the odds to make it in the playoffs this year, so Bringing in Frolik and Hamilton puts up in better contention to make the playoffs this year.

 

I'm not saying it will be easy, but inking these guys to the right contract is imperative to moving up in the league.  We have enough periphery guys that don't need to be kept, or could be replaced by prospects without major impact to the team's success.  Subtract Engelland, Bollig, Raymond, Jones, and Smid and we still have the majority of our impact players.  Replace Stajan and Russell internally (in time) and you are nowhere near the cap.  That is to say assuming you don't sign Gio to $8.5m AAV, Bouma to $3m AAV, and Hudler to $7m AAV. 

 

If one day we have players like Crosby, Toews, Kane, etc then we can talk about committing long term expensive contracts to add on players.  But we don't.  Signing a bunch of 30+ veterans to expensive high end contracts before you even have your young core developed let alone locked in isn't a recipe for long term success.  

[MAC331]

If one day we have players like Crosby, Toews, Kane, etc then we can talk about committing long term expensive contracts to add on players.  But we don't.  Signing a bunch of 30+ veterans to expensive high end contracts before you even have your young core developed let alone locked in isn't a recipe for long term success.  

There is no doubt BT has to be smart about any of these signings, hopefully he is smart enough to say no. I like Hudler but if you extend him you block a kid like Poirier from hitting the roster. I'm not against this if he is the best man for the position and the price is right.

[jjgallow]

Between Hudler, Wideman, and Gio I think you need to trade one of them to sustain the rebuild to completion.

 

Hudler has a high probability, simply because he has high value (not because we don't like him).

 

Also, we have some strength on left wing that we don't have on defense.

 

But if it works with the cap, I would of course love to have him on the team and believe he's incredibly valuable.

[travel_dude]

If one day we have players like Crosby, Toews, Kane, etc then we can talk about committing long term expensive contracts to add on players.  But we don't.  Signing a bunch of 30+ veterans to expensive high end contracts before you even have your young core developed let alone locked in isn't a recipe for long term success.  

 

Hudler and Gio are every bit as important to the winning environment and this team's success as anyone else.  If you prefer to let them go while the kids are developing and pay them like stars, then we will have a team built like the Oilers; expensive kids and no leadership.

 

The Hawks signed Hossa to along-term back-diving contract that averages $5.275 until he is 42.  Add that to the Kane and Toews hits of $10.5m AAV, and you have trouble signing a Saad.  That's $26m+ for 3 players.  I don't think you hit those kind of numbers for any 3 of our players.  That money gets you Gio, Hudler, Mony, and Johnny long term.

[mike_jones]

Between Hudler, Wideman, and Gio I think you need to trade one of them to sustain the rebuild to completion.

 

Hudler has a high probability, simply because he has high value (not because we don't like him).

 

Also, we have some strength on left wing that we don't have on defense.

 

But if it works with the cap, I would of course love to have him on the team and believe he's incredibly valuable.

Jiri Hudler primarily plays the right wing, which is a position of weakness.  Wideman is the 4th best defenseman.

 

You don't trade the teams leading scorer and a huge leader in the locker room over an aging 4/5 dman.

 

Wideman is much more expendable imo

[OilersAreHighlyFlammable]

Hudler and Gio are every bit as important to the winning environment and this team's success as anyone else.  If you prefer to let them go while the kids are developing and pay them like stars, then we will have a team built like the Oilers; expensive kids and no leadership.

 

The Hawks signed Hossa to along-term back-diving contract that averages $5.275 until he is 42.  Add that to the Kane and Toews hits of $10.5m AAV, and you have trouble signing a Saad.  That's $26m+ for 3 players.  I don't think you hit those kind of numbers for any 3 of our players.  That money gets you Gio, Hudler, Mony, and Johnny long term.

Agreed, if not moreso. The Oilers are a solid comparison. All talent and no leadership (and no D ). The Flames have many guys that are willing to go out and lead by example and I think that's part of the reason for our surprise success last-season. Even outside of the veteran leadership group of Russell, Hudler, and Gio, we have some young guys with great character and leadership potential like Monahan, Backlund (Though more of a veteran), and Bouma.

[kehatch]

Hudler and Gio are every bit as important to the winning environment and this team's success as anyone else. If you prefer to let them go while the kids are developing and pay them like stars, then we will have a team built like the Oilers; expensive kids and no leadership.

The Hawks signed Hossa to along-term back-diving contract that averages $5.275 until he is 42. Add that to the Kane and Toews hits of $10.5m AAV, and you have trouble signing a Saad. That's $26m+ for 3 players. I don't think you hit those kind of numbers for any 3 of our players. That money gets you Gio, Hudler, Mony, and Johnny long term.

Nobody disputes their value. It isn't about their value. This is a cap league and there is a limit to who you can afford.

First it was "it will be fine, we will sign the kids to bridge deals and we won't have to pay them for years." Except the Hamilton, Saad, O'Reilly, and Tarasenko deals are proving the bridge deal for star players is dead.

Then it was "once the contracts for some of our vets expire we will have plenty of cap." Except contracts for quality depth players like Frolik and Backlund show that you are simply going to replace departing vets with new players on similar or larger contracts.

Now it's "Chicago manages to award that many players with large contracts and they are successful." But that ignores the simple fact that they have some of the most talented players in the world on their roster and can afford to be top heavy.

We aren't far enough along yet to know what our roster is going to be. But we want to invest massive contracts with term to players in their 30s. If we do that Monahan and Gaudreau better turn into the next Toews and Kane because you are cap strapped with top heavy contract and can't supplement them with depth.

Worse, as much as I love these veteran players your taking a huge leap to think they can sustain this level long term. These are guys having career seasons in their 30s. Even if they don't regress naturally age will probably catch up to them before we are chasing the cup.

Two years down the road do we want to be trading away kids that could take their spot because we blew our wad (aka cap space) in 2015? Do we want to miss out on the star UFA or trade bate available? Wouldn't you like to have the space to go after the O'Reilly, Saad, Hamilton, Kessel etc that is available.

These players will require long term contracts with star cap hits. Signing all of them is incredibly short sighted. It's a very kid in the candy shop short sighted approach. We can't afford to keep everyone.

[CheersMan]

Hudler is a highly skilled player.  He’s a team player.  He is a great mentor.  He has great puck handling skills.  He sees and creates plays very well but he lacks speed and toughness.  Today’s game is all about skating and speed.  Jiri performs well in the regular season but I wasn’t particularly impressed with his playoff performance.  When the game got physical Jiri disappeared, in fact, he disappeared in 8 of 11 games.  I’m not certain Jiri can take us to the next level in the Western Conference.  I don’t think I’m resigning a 32 yr old Hudler at 5+, I’m looking to shop Hudler at the 2016 TDL, if the right deal comes, then it pains me to say, he gone!

[kehatch]

Hudler is a highly skilled player. He’s a team player. He is a great mentor. He has great puck handling skills. He sees and creates plays very well but he lacks speed and toughness. Today’s game is all about skating and speed. Jiri performs well in the regular season but I wasn’t particularly impressed with his playoff performance. When the game got physical Jiri disappeared, in fact, he disappeared in 8 of 11 games. I’m not certain Jiri can take us to the next level in the Western Conference. I don’t think I’m resigning a 32 yr old Hudler at 5+, I’m looking to shop Hudler at the 2016 TDL, if the right deal comes, then it pains me to say, he gone!

I anticipate we are going to be in the playoff race. We aren't talking about Glencross. We are talking about the scoring leader for the Flames last season. It's a tough sell to trade a player of that value at the deadline when your in a tight playoff race. That isn't fair to fans or the players.

It's better to trade him this off season. You will get a better return and avoid that issue at the deadline.