The_People1 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Sarasti said: If Huberdeau and Weegar aren't going to resign and BT knows this for sure he will deal them by the deadline. I sincerely doubt he would make the same mistake two seasons in a row. There's two ways to look at it. Either we didn't sell Gaudreau at the TDL or we didn't pay the price for Chychrun to make a serious run at the Cup... We now have one more chance. So either we sell all at the TDL or trade everything to land our missing pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 17 hours ago, cross16 said: Klingberg really isn't a fit or need anymore and they don't really have the cap space to sign him anyway. I am completely with you on this. I don't bring him up because I don't want nor do we need a flashier, more expensive version of Kylington. I have hopes that Meloche can be a Gudbranson replacement. I firmly believe that we targeted him. You don't sign guys just because. He's just turned 25, 6'3"/205lbs. He's had 57 NHL games and 59PIMS, 10 of which are from fighting, so he doesn't penalty much. Very much a stay-at-home D. He's the perfect age for a Dman to break out. We always say Dmen take longer to develop, but then we forget we said that and say a 24yo in his first pro action is, "just a tweener".lol Sutter turned Gudbranson into decent, I'm sure they put their sights on Meloche. Much cheaper, likely can match Gudbranson, still some upside there as he gets one of the best teachers in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 For the record, I have zero interest in Kadri. We have a great opportunity to negotiate our cap space and he would ruin that. We have 11mil opening up next year. $4 more for Huberdeau, 3-4 more for Weegar, so call it $4 maybe. Now you HAVE to move a contract out. Are you moving Hanifin's $5? That's a pretty good contract. Also, where is the $$ for Kadri this year? Mangia and Kyl are eating up most of our remaining balance. We all want all of the best players, but the suggestions need to address how you're doing your cap gymnastics. Everybody now despises Vegas for throwing players away. We all get that there is very little loyalty, but you still don't trample dignity like only Vegas does. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 9 hours ago, phoenix66 said: I think you might be underating Weegar a bit .. he's a def #1 Maybe on our team, and he did get a lot of ice time with Ekblad. But in Florida he was #4 D in ppg and goals behind Ekblad, Forsling, Montour. They won't be worried about their top line in losing him. Sorry, I am super happy to have him and he's definitely a core player. But people who think we have solved D are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Sarasti said: If Huberdeau and Weegar aren't going to resign and BT knows this for sure he will deal them by the deadline. I sincerely doubt he would make the same mistake two seasons in a row. The thing is, if he had really learned from his mistakes would he have acquired two more guys with no term, when there were incredible prospect offers available from New Jersey and elsewhere? Fox, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Erixon, Each time we support him and say there was nothing he could have done. Now we have two more. I'm not saying he won't get it right, even I always have some hope. But it's far from a "for sure" thing, his track record is pretty clear about that. It's hard to envision him making a decision that has consideration beyond this upcoming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Maybe on our team, and he did get a lot of ice time with Ekblad. But in Florida he was #4 D in ppg and goals behind Ekblad, Forsling, Montour. They won't be worried about their top line in losing him. Sorry, I am super happy to have him and he's definitely a core player. But people who think we have solved D are mistaken. If we were talking about offense then yes , but in terms of shutdown d this guy was one of the best in the league last year, especially against zone entries .which the Oilers burned us on .. This is actually a great analysis they put together .. you'll find Weagar in the top right 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Maybe on our team, and he did get a lot of ice time with Ekblad. But in Florida he was #4 D in ppg and goals behind Ekblad, Forsling, Montour. They won't be worried about their top line in losing him. Sorry, I am super happy to have him and he's definitely a core player. But people who think we have solved D are mistaken. To maybe lend a bit of perspective, 1 of those 4 guys is still with Huberdeau, who was, without a doubt, FLA'a principal O-driver. Look at FLA's roster now. Not looking great for a fast north team. Huberdeau and Weegar were 2 of their best let's push north guys. As for our team, that's Richter Scale change of dynamics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketdoctor Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, jjgallow said: The thing is, if he had really learned from his mistakes would he have acquired two more guys with no term, when there were incredible prospect offers available from New Jersey and elsewhere? What were these incredible prospect offers? Please share your insdier knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, jjgallow said: The thing is, if he had really learned from his mistakes would he have acquired two more guys with no term, when there were incredible prospect offers available from New Jersey and elsewhere? Fox, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Erixon, Each time we support him and say there was nothing he could have done. Now we have two more. I'm not saying he won't get it right, even I always have some hope. But it's far from a "for sure" thing, his track record is pretty clear about that. It's hard to envision him making a decision that has consideration beyond this upcoming season. To be fair , Erickson was Sutter and Feaster.. but in nearly all these cases he had to be a mind reader.. fox especially.. kid said the right thing for 4 years..came to development camp every single year..then when it came to the wire suddenly he wanted to be somehwere else. The college system is broken. I've said for a long time they shouid be like RFAs.. they finish school and a QO hold their rights for 2 years .. problem solved . I'll accept the argument when Johnny didn't sign last offseason he shouid have tried to move him..but in reality the return wouid have been awful and we'd be roasting him for it now Both huberdeau and Weegar are coming here in August . I can see some news by then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Another thread devolving into a "shoulda got" or "won't sign" thread. I get some are worried about re-signings or the lack of picks for the future, the bottom line is that the defense is better today that it was the end of last season. Futures for a valuable asset are nice, but most would be 3-5 years away from showing that they are even NHL players. The tendency to play a pick in his draft year shows a lot of desperation or the player was too good in camp to go back to junior. Gaudreau was a special player but was back in college for years before he played a single game. Tkachuk was fine in his first season, mostly because he already was NHL sized (weight) but he never was a Calder candidate. We have some interesting decisions to make. 7 guys were NHL regulars last season. 2 prospects and 1 guy signed to be able to go to the AHL. We may end up trading one of our regulars to facilitate depth elsewhere or we may trade prospect D to maximize asset value over losing them to waivers. It's a tough call. We have 5 guys that played here so we know what they can do. Meloche is a known quantity in the NHL and seeing how he fits the team in camp is critical. Not the worst thing in the world if he's not in the top 6. Low risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Another thread devolving into a "shoulda got" or "won't sign" thread. I get some are worried about re-signings or the lack of picks for the future, the bottom line is that the defense is better today that it was the end of last season. Futures for a valuable asset are nice, but most would be 3-5 years away from showing that they are even NHL players. The tendency to play a pick in his draft year shows a lot of desperation or the player was too good in camp to go back to junior. Gaudreau was a special player but was back in college for years before he played a single game. Tkachuk was fine in his first season, mostly because he already was NHL sized (weight) but he never was a Calder candidate. We have some interesting decisions to make. 7 guys were NHL regulars last season. 2 prospects and 1 guy signed to be able to go to the AHL. We may end up trading one of our regulars to facilitate depth elsewhere or we may trade prospect D to maximize asset value over losing them to waivers. It's a tough call. We have 5 guys that played here so we know what they can do. Meloche is a known quantity in the NHL and seeing how he fits the team in camp is critical. Not the worst thing in the world if he's not in the top 6. Low risk. Valimaki to Me is the wild card to watch.. they absolutely can not expose him to waivers .. lose him on waivers and that's another high profile first rounder lost in the worst way.. so either they plan to keep him up and work him in.. I originally thought let Tanev work with him.. or he has to be moved in a deal..and wothbthr the pickup of Weegar which likely moves Hanifin back to play with Tanev..they were a good pair that first year.. which moves kyllington to play with Zadorov.. something has to give . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: To be fair , Erickson was Sutter and Feaster.. but in nearly all these cases he had to be a mind reader.. fox especially.. kid said the right thing for 4 years..came to development camp every single year..then when it came to the wire suddenly he wanted to be somehwere else. The college system is broken. I've said for a long time they shouid be like RFAs.. they finish school and a QO hold their rights for 2 years .. problem solved . I'll accept the argument when Johnny didn't sign last offseason he shouid have tried to move him..but in reality the return wouid have been awful and we'd be roasting him for it now Both huberdeau and Weegar are coming here in August . I can see some news by then I agree that the college system is broken. Another solution which would also solve other problems is raising draft age by one year except for exceptional status (McDavid etc). If BT gets them signed then all of this changes dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 54 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: If we were talking about offense then yes , but in terms of shutdown d this guy was one of the best in the league last year, especially against zone entries .which the Oilers burned us on .. This is actually a great analysis they put together .. you'll find Weagar in the top right It's a very good graphic and I don't mean to poop on Weegar, again very excited to have him. Just being real. I mean if I'm excited about it, I know others will be over the moon excited and the possibility of us getting just a Little ahead of ourselves is a very real thing. Great defenseman, no questions about it, happy to have him. Would make room on the roster for a few more if we could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, phoenix66 said: Valimaki to Me is the wild card to watch.. they absolutely can not expose him to waivers .. lose him on waivers and that's another high profile first rounder lost in the worst way.. so either they plan to keep him up and work him in.. I originally thought let Tanev work with him.. or he has to be moved in a deal..and wothbthr the pickup of Weegar which likely moves Hanifin back to play with Tanev..they were a good pair that first year.. which moves kyllington to play with Zadorov.. something has to give . I mean they can carry 8D depending on how they finish the summer signings and cap left over, but the two that stand out are Valimaki and Mackey. Both would get claimed. Meloche is the type that gets picked up in the end of pre-season rash of waived players. Teams like ARI are looking for a bargain contract to take in. These are players that may not even have considered signing in Zona. Other teams wll have injuries to the top 6 and need an extra. Claiming a waiver guy to replace a short term injury is a no-brainer. Valimaki may be a more targeted claim. Easily the best guy waived. Extra $300k abive the amount that could be stowed in the AHL and is NHL sized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, jjgallow said: I agree that the college system is broken. Another solution which would also solve other problems is raising draft age by one year except for exceptional status (McDavid etc). If BT gets them signed then all of this changes dramatically. I like the draft age where it is ..but I wouid let teams have the option of sending them to the farm at 19 .. or if they're picked in the first round at 18.. many get stuck cuz they're too good fir junior. But not good enough for the NHL.. on the flip side they still have the option of leaving them in junior I still view it this way.. we traded one year of tkachuk for potentially one year of 2 players , a prospect and a first . We win the trade .. We sign one ..it's a steal.. we sign em both and Zito gets the Chiarelli aware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 53 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said: What were these incredible prospect offers? Please share your insdier knowledge It wasn't insider knowledge, you can scroll back in this forum and see multiple regulars here drooling over them. In the past now. Were they better than what we got? If we can't sign these guys, then yes. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, jjgallow said: It's a very good graphic and I don't mean to poop on Weegar, again very excited to have him. Just being real. I mean if I'm excited about it, I know others will be over the moon excited and the possibility of us getting just a Little ahead of ourselves is a very real thing. Great defenseman, no questions about it, happy to have him. Would make room on the roster for a few more if we could. Ya he reminds me in many ways of when we signed Tanev..many were "meh" ..many hated the deal.. I liked the signing but wasnt over the moon.. then saw him play here and never knew he was that damn good ..lol with him also having pp experience.. I'm seeing a trend where we will be replacing Johnnys carry ins distributed more from the back end .. even Huberdeau's is not a carry in guy, So I expect a lot more defense entries .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, jjgallow said: It wasn't insider knowledge, you can scroll back in this forum and see multiple regulars here drooling over them. In the past now. Were they better than what we got? If we can't sign these guys, then yes. We'll see. No offence, but we all had combos we were looking to get. No team ever even came close to that or we would have jumped. No Hischier or Thomas was on the table. Necas was mentioned, but as the big piece talked about. People here are very good at puting together packages, but GM's never seem to make those offers. Now, if Tkachuk and Gaudreau were offered as a package, and both had one year left, I wonder how much better a return would have come back. Tkachuk by himself is a very good player but not even worth a top 3 C. A 200 point pair may have been that plus plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, travel_dude said: No offence, but we all had combos we were looking to get. No team ever even came close to that or we would have jumped. No Hischier or Thomas was on the table. Necas was mentioned, but as the big piece talked about. People here are very good at puting together packages, but GM's never seem to make those offers. Now, if Tkachuk and Gaudreau were offered as a package, and both had one year left, I wonder how much better a return would have come back. Tkachuk by himself is a very good player but not even worth a top 3 C. A 200 point pair may have been that plus plus. ok fair enough. No question, BT was in a tight spot, so I don't need to go on forever about his latest trade, although it certainly was even a greater gamble than the gamble of keeping Tkachuk/Gaudreau. The thing is, a lot of us are talking about his TDL value but we all know very well that at TDL, the following will be true: 1. Huberdeau, for sure, and probably Weegar will be unsigned, unless they have aweful seasons in which case they'll sign 2. Huberdeau and Weegar will be talking about how much they love the City 3. BT, along with fans, will be talking about winning the cup 4. We'll probably not have as strong of a team as last year, but will still be talking about the cup 5. BT will therefore gamble and swing for the cup again, and if anything be a buyer at TDL these are things we...I'm not going to say.."know", but...can reasonably expect. The question is how long can it be kept up and at what cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Personally I think we are stronger on D, could always add however has to be a great fit. IMHO we are weaker up front. I do think Hubie is an awesome aquistion as is Weeger but it dylusional or misguided to believe this roster is a contender, its morre of a long shot to make the playoffs in a weak divison. So hypotetically we are in a playoff spot at the TDL these two are not signed with no clarification they will or will not, what do you do? So you flush the season for the rest of the team because of them or you go for it and lose them at UFA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, tmac70 said: Personally I think we are stronger on D, could always add however has to be a great fit. IMHO we are weaker up front. I do think Hubie is an awesome aquistion as is Weeger but it dylusional or misguided to believe this roster is a contender, its morre of a long shot to make the playoffs in a weak divison. So hypotetically we are in a playoff spot at the TDL these two are not signed with no clarification they will or will not, what do you do? So you flush the season for the rest of the team because of them or you go for it and lose them at UFA. Soo easy to answer that now. So much harder, when we're in the middle of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, jjgallow said: ok fair enough. No question, BT was in a tight spot, so I don't need to go on forever about his latest trade, although it certainly was even a greater gamble than the gamble of keeping Tkachuk/Gaudreau. The thing is, a lot of us are talking about his TDL value but we all know very well that at TDL, the following will be true: 1. Huberdeau, for sure, and probably Weegar will be unsigned, unless they have aweful seasons in which case they'll sign 2. Huberdeau and Weegar will be talking about how much they love the City 3. BT, along with fans, will be talking about winning the cup 4. We'll probably not have as strong of a team as last year, but will still be talking about the cup 5. BT will therefore gamble and swing for the cup again, and if anything be a buyer at TDL these are things we...I'm not going to say.."know", but...can reasonably expect. The question is how long can it be kept up and at what cost. Great predictions. 50% chance of being right on Hubie. But some simple facts required. Unless we are a terrible organization, why won't two pending UFA's sign for really good offers? To test UFA market and end where only Buffalo can afford to match the offer? Johnny said the same thing a few years back that Hubie said about his "desired" team. Wouldn't it be cool to someday play for the team I grew up around. Taylor Hall, Kale Makar, Point all have dreamed of that. The GM that got bitten by false narratives this season and summer is going to walk these two to FA? You expect it to be the case because you want to justify your narrative. It's a theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 55 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Great predictions. 50% chance of being right on Hubie. But some simple facts required. Unless we are a terrible organization, why won't two pending UFA's sign for really good offers? To test UFA market and end where only Buffalo can afford to match the offer? Johnny said the same thing a few years back that Hubie said about his "desired" team. Wouldn't it be cool to someday play for the team I grew up around. Taylor Hall, Kale Makar, Point all have dreamed of that. The GM that got bitten by false narratives this season and summer is going to walk these two to FA? You expect it to be the case because you want to justify your narrative. It's a theme. Maybe. BT has bought himself a bit of time, I will give him that. The cost of doing so is yet to he determined because it was again a gamble. I'm fine with backing off this particular train for now. On the other hand if you're trying to make examples of players who stay on their team I'm not entirely sure that Taylor Hall is the greatest example ever. And as for Makar.....well.... I haven't given up on him signing here and neither should you lol. All it takes is meeting the right girl at the stampede and it's a done deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Maybe. BT has bought himself a bit of time, I will give him that. The cost of doing so is yet to he determined because it was again a gamble. I'm fine with backing off this particular train for now. On the other hand if you're trying to make examples of players who stay on their team I'm not entirely sure that Taylor Hall is the greatest example ever. And as for Makar.....well.... I haven't given up on him signing here and neither should you lol. All it takes is meeting the right girl at the stampede and it's a done deal The examples were players that "dreamed" of playing for CGY. Taylor Hall with his PJ's. LOL. The big picture is that not every player born or raised in a particular city ends up ever playing there. If that was true, we would be stacked. Arizona would have Matthews and Tkachuk. Okay, so one of those is possible soon enough. It's a gamble but so is drafting or signing any player without them taking a polygraph. Even then, they probably convince themselves that they want to be here. It was painfully obvious that a retool was necessary after two guys bolted. If all we got from Tkachuk was Necas, a top prospect and a pick, then that's a bigger risk. He's a piece you add to a good team, not a starting point. Flames defense. Bigger and deeper than last year. Can't keep em all, so something comes of that. BT always says that you build the team in the summer, so somethings coming. Unlike some players, I doubt you see either of the new guys refusing to have negotiations during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Remember last year when we were a "bubble" team or not a playoff team at all? Pepperidge Farms remembers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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