Flames Defense

[Flyerfan52]

1 minute ago, manu11 said:

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

Obviously, I suggested Postma for that o-zone oriented scenario. I like Del Zotto, but I don't think he would sign under $3m. I'd look for cheaper options like Quincey or maybe Polak. We shouldn't put too much money in our D, especially in the bottom three.  

With Del Zotto I was thinking more of the 4th D but the signing cost depends on his other offers. I've seen what he can do but last season wasn't 1 or his better 1s. If we get him @ 3 we've got a bargain because I see him as top 4 but @ 3 he fits what I see as reasonable for a #5 to slide into top 4 if/when needed.

We do have 17.7 wrapped up in 4 D (Bart @ 0.6, Gio @ 1st D price of 6.75, Hamilton @ 5.75 which is also 1st pair wages & Brodie earning his 4.65) so we're limited in how much we can add.

Many won't like this but Gio's NTC includes 19 teams he can be traded to. Some obviously won't need/want him but if BT can find 1 trade partner that lessens the load so we can add say a $4 million top 3 & the same $s @ #4 for a total of 19 but a better overall D.

My ideal under a 73 million cap is 8 for goalie, 20-25 for a dang good D (Nashville spends 20 but they have 3 top 4s @ bargain price) & the remainder on forwards.

But, I see the beauty of prevented goals as @ least = to goals scored. Few do!

[manu11]

37 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

With Del Zotto I was thinking more of the 4th D but the signing cost depends on his other offers. I've seen what he can do but last season wasn't 1 or his better 1s. If we get him @ 3 we've got a bargain because I see him as top 4 but @ 3 he fits what I see as reasonable for a #5 to slide into top 4 if/when needed.

 

 

I agree that Del Zotto could be a candidat for that Nr.4 spot. I see him in the same range as the likes of Stone and B.Smith, solid 4th's or really good 5th's. Since we have a Nr.2 guy playing on the second pair I'd be perfectly fine with one of these guys for that role. It's just important, that the guy you get can compliment Brodie's style and I think Stone did well there in the 20+ games he played for us.

 

59 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

We do have 17.7 wrapped up in 4 D (Bart @ 0.6, Gio @ 1st D price of 6.75, Hamilton @ 5.75 which is also 1st pair wages & Brodie earning his 4.65) so we're limited in how much we can add.

Many won't like this but Gio's NTC includes 19 teams he can be traded to. Some obviously won't need/want him but if BT can find 1 trade partner that lessens the load so we can add say a $4 million top 3 & the same $s @ #4 for a total of 19 but a better overall D.

My ideal under a 73 million cap is 8 for goalie, 20-25 for a dang good D (Nashville spends 20 but they have 3 top 4s @ bargain price) & the remainder on forwards.

But, I see the beauty of prevented goals as @ least = to goals scored. Few do!

 

Count me in as someone who wouldn't trade Giordano right now, I think the ideal point would be after the 18/19 season. Although if I do read that correctly on "CapFriendly", then Gio has a full NTC until the start of the 20/21 season. Not until then does the 19 team list apply.

When I look at Nashville's Top4, one might be a bit jealous. They've done such a good job not only at developing these guys but also managed to re-sign the guys to longterm contracts at the right time, so that they look like bargains today.  Meanwhile we still wait for someone to grab a spot since Brodie. It's really time for a kid to grab a spot! Maybe we should force one, by letting a spot open that the guys battle for in camp.  

 

[phoenix66]

23 hours ago, MAC331 said:

 

Could we get Dalton Prout from NJD for Bouma LW and Shinkaruk LW ?

 

First I heard of this guy really was in this thread , his claim to fame is dropping Lucic..

Did some reading and he doesn't seem like he is very good at all.. spent the season up and down from the minors and not getting good reviews.. is there something I'm missing ? he strikes me as not good enough to even crack our 7 last year ?

[phoenix66]

13 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Many won't like this but Gio's NTC includes 19 teams he can be traded to. Some obviously won't need/want him but if BT can find 1 trade partner that lessens the load so we can add say a $4 million top 3 & the same $s @ #4 for a total of 19 but a better overall D.

 

Actually, keeping with the unpopular theme.. Brodie is the one I'd listen to offers on. Wouldn't actively shop him , but for the right deal I could accept his name being included.

I think we have now seen his best (don't get me wrong , his best is very good) but we are past the point of wondering what he can become.)

I feel you could replace him.. and just as an example, its pretty apparent Tampa is shopping Drouin, and word is they want D in return..  not one for one, but Brodie as a key component from our side I wouldn't be upset about .

 

it worries me when we "look for the right partner" for a player .. we spent years looking for Iggy's center .. turns out the problem was Iggy

Brodie played his best with Gio.. has struggled with new partners since (Stone was a good one).. now suddenly playing with Gio, Hamilton has his best season. its obvious Gio makes his partners better .. Brodie on the other hand needs a better partner ... personally I think his trade value is at a peak right now 

 

If there was some way to pry Schultz from the Pens , Brodie would be replaced instantly .. not sure if we have the tools to get it done though.. it depends whether they want to protect Schultz or Pouliot in the ED.. if its Pouliot , then JS just got a whole lot easier to obtain

..still cant believe the way he finally turned his game around.,,

[jjgallow]

19 hours ago, cross16 said:

Good chance a lot of them already make that or more playing at home.

 

Yup.    I think this even a chance for the Flames within North America.    Surely there are things that cone be done.   Beats me if I know what they are.

 

I have always wondered why they didn't put the Heat in Calgary.   For the simple reason that those players are often meeting girls, sometimes finding wives, and sometimes (ahem...inavertently or otherwise) starting families and setting roots.    For that simple reason alone and the advantage it could have on even one important contract, I've always been surprised they weren't here.

 

As for Europe....yeah.   All I'm saying is that I can't help but look over there and see talent.   Which would appear available.  From my computer screen.

 

Find a GM who can make that sort of thing actually happen, and you have the next detroit red wings (of old).

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yup.    I think this even a chance for the Flames within North America.    Surely there are things that cone be done.   Beats me if I know what they are.

 

I have always wondered why they didn't put the Heat in Calgary.   For the simple reason that those players are often meeting girls, sometimes finding wives, and sometimes (ahem...inavertently or otherwise) starting families and setting roots.    For that simple reason alone and the advantage it could have on even one important contract, I've always been surprised they weren't here.

 

As for Europe....yeah.   All I'm saying is that I can't help but look over there and see talent.   Which would appear available.  From my computer screen.

 

Find a GM who can make that sort of thing actually happen, and you have the next detroit red wings (of old).

only problem is there are no secrets anymore. Detroit made a living off scouting small town Europe when nobody else was.. not unlike the Flames who were tapping US colleges when nobody else was (Otto, Patterson, for starters).. nowadays if the kid has talent every team has heard of him .

But you are correct.. we need to be looking harder in those areas .

 

maybe not right in the city..but close..Lethbridge or RedDeer would be awesome .only problem is the travel schedule ..they complained about it even in Abbotsford 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

Actually, keeping with the unpopular theme.. Brodie is the one I'd listen to offers on. Wouldn't actively shop him , but for the right deal I could accept his name being included.

I think we have now seen his best (don't get me wrong , his best is very good) but we are past the point of wondering what he can become.)

I feel you could replace him.. and just as an example, its pretty apparent Tampa is shopping Drouin, and word is they want D in return..  not one for one, but Brodie as a key component from our side I wouldn't be upset about .

 

it worries me when we "look for the right partner" for a player .. we spent years looking for Iggy's center .. turns out the problem was Iggy

Brodie played his best with Gio.. has struggled with new partners since (Stone was a good one).. now suddenly playing with Gio, Hamilton has his best season. its obvious Gio makes his partners better .. Brodie on the other hand needs a better partner ... personally I think his trade value is at a peak right now 

 

If there was some way to pry Schultz from the Pens , Brodie would be replaced instantly .. not sure if we have the tools to get it done though.. it depends whether they want to protect Schultz or Pouliot in the ED.. if its Pouliot , then JS just got a whole lot easier to obtain

..still cant believe the way he finally turned his game around.,,

I think you are missing the point regarding a partner for Brodie, unlike with forward scenerios defensemen play in pairs therefore they should compliment each other. Where one is weak find a strength in the other partner. Brodie is one of the best puck moving defensemen in hockey, I fail to see why we would give that up.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

I think you are missing the point regarding a partner for Brodie, unlike with forward scenerios defensemen play in pairs therefore they should compliment each other. Where one is weak find a strength in the other partner. Brodie is one of the best puck moving defensemen in hockey, I fail to see why we would give that up.

same reason we would consider any player .. to make the team better.

again not saying shop him ,just I don't see him as untouchable, and as mentioned before.. he doesn't make his partner better .. its always a worry when the common denominator is the one you're trying to pair up .

 

Just saying if were to trade Brodie or Gio, I'd keep Gio , hands down. You will have much better success replacing Brodie's spot

 

also , we already have his potential replacements in Andersson and Kyllington.. granted neither may be ready for prime time , and definitely not for top 4 just yet.. but if it were me, I'd give both heavy preseason time with Gio to see how they fare without the pressure

[jjgallow]

32 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

maybe not right in the city..but close..Lethbridge or RedDeer would be awesome .only problem is the travel schedule ..they complained about it even in Abbotsford 

 

true.  But, like they say, if you build it they will come....Alberta could actually support a few AHL teams to be honest.   And so could saskatchewan.   I don't think it would always be a bad travel schedule. 

[jjgallow]

18 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm all for adding a 4th D.  A real one. 

 

 

The key being, a real one.  exactly.

 

I'd like to see them go all out.  I want another D. Hamilton.  I know....but I do.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

First I heard of this guy really was in this thread , his claim to fame is dropping Lucic..

Did some reading and he doesn't seem like he is very good at all.. spent the season up and down from the minors and not getting good reviews.. is there something I'm missing ? he strikes me as not good enough to even crack our 7 last year ?

Honestly I don't know much about him either. Can he skate, we are going to have to deal with EDM intensively in the upcoming years. LOL

I also want to trade for Manning from PHI, Oiler fans hate this guy. LOL

[phoenix66]

Just now, MAC331 said:

Honestly I don't know much about him either. Can he skate, we are going to have to deal with EDM intensively in the upcoming years. LOL

I also want to trade for Manning from PHI, Oiler fans hate this guy. LOL

was he the one that Ran McDavid?

[MAC331]

23 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

same reason we would consider any player .. to make the team better.

again not saying shop him ,just I don't see him as untouchable, and as mentioned before.. he doesn't make his partner better .. its always a worry when the common denominator is the one you're trying to pair up .

 

Just saying if were to trade Brodie or Gio, I'd keep Gio , hands down. You will have much better success replacing Brodie's spot

 

also , we already have his potential replacements in Andersson and Kyllington.. granted neither may be ready for prime time , and definitely not for top 4 just yet.. but if it were me, I'd give both heavy preseason time with Gio to see how they fare without the pressure

I am going to skip down to your last statement and say the time to consider trading Brodie would be in 2 years IMO so some of these LHSD prospects are more ready. Sorry but I don't believe the preseason tells you much more than management already knows about where these guys fit. A simple fix for this coming season might be to sign Stone but not to necessarily to play with Brodie. Try Andersson with Brodie to see how it goes and use Stone on the 3rd pairing as the vet to bring along another one of our prospects that are close.

[MAC331]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The key being, a real one.  exactly.

 

I'd like to see them go all out.  I want another D. Hamilton.  I know....but I do.

I wouldn't mind a similar deal like the Hamilton one to land us a Goalie, the first line of defense. Use our 1st and whatever else to get our goal settled for a few years.

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

was he the one that Ran McDavid?

Likely but I watched a game after and there were Oiler players taking continuous runs at him, totally taking them off their game. I loved it.

[phoenix66]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I am going to ski down to you last statement and say the time to consider trading Brodie would be in 2 years IMO so some of these LHSD prospects are more ready. Sorry but I don't believe the preseason tells you much more than management already knows about where these guys fit. A simple fix for this coming season might be to sign Stone but not to necessarily to play with Brodie. Try Andersson with Brodie to see how it goes and use Stone on the 3rd pairing as the vet to bring along another one of our prospects that are close.

again , not trying to move him.. just saying its an option ,  But .. if we do keep him (likely ) .. why would you move Stone?  they had the best chemistry ? I believe his dip (stone) at the end was largely due to the injury , I don't think he came back fully healthy 

The Best fit for Brodie, is a more D minded player , who can get involved in the O when required ..  Andersson and Kyllington are both more O minded  like Brodie

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Likely but I watched a game after and there were Oiler players taking continuous runs at him, totally taking them off their game. I loved it.

nice.. a D version of Hathaway.. I like it LOL

[MAC331]

Just now, phoenix66 said:

again , not trying to move him.. just saying its an option ,  But .. if we do keep him (likely ) .. why would you move Stone?  they had the best chemistry ? I believe his dip (stone) at the end was largely due to the injury , I don't think he came back fully healthy 

The Best fit for Brodie, is a more D minded player , who can get involved in the O when required ..  Andersson and Kyllington are both more O minded  like Brodie

I am suggesting to start out that way. I don't think we should be accepting of any defenseman being "only" offensive minded. Hopefully they are learning more than that down in Stockton. We know Stone can play with Brodie and we will also have to pay Stone to be here. I have noticed GG likes to have experience teamed with youth and I also like this approach in building our team the "right way".

Giordano, Hamilton

Brodie, Andersson

Bartkowski, Stone

Bartkowski is on a two way and we could use this spot to try out some of our LHSD prospects. Should Andersson not do well you can slide Stone back up with Brodie and rework the 3rd pairing.

[MAC331]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

nice.. a D version of Hathaway.. I like it LOL

Yes LOL

[AlbertaBoy12]

32 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I am suggesting to start out that way. I don't think we should be accepting of any defenseman being "only" offensive minded. Hopefully they are learning more than that down in Stockton. We know Stone can play with Brodie and we will also have to pay Stone to be here. I have noticed GG likes to have experience teamed with youth and I also like this approach in building our team the "right way".

Giordano, Hamilton

Brodie, Andersson

Bartkowski, Stone

Bartkowski is on a two way and we could use this spot to try out some of our LHSD prospects. Should Andersson not do well you can slide Stone back up with Brodie and rework the 3rd pairing.

Im pretty sure what you are suggesting here is the most likely situation for our D corp going into next season. Unless stone doesnt come back, I dont think the flames want another long term commitment in the top 4 unless they can find a young guy ala hamilton to slide in. That D group actually doesnt look half bad if andersson can make some strides over the summer in terms of fitness, the consistency in his game should come easier. I dont mind the bartowski stone pairing,, but I think that would be a last resort, as I wasent a huge fan of bartowski, he seems to have a lot of the tools but lacks the smarts. Id rather see kulak step in for 3rd pairing duties along side stone and then have bartowski as my #7.

[Flyerfan52]

59 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

was he the one that Ran McDavid?

Didn't run him although a year later after an on ice comment McDavid (& his cheerleader Don Cherry) reversed his comments of a year ago about hitting a rut. Manning & Gudas actually double teamed McDavid on that hit.

That said, I think Manning is someone we could & should add. 18+ minutes but only 12 points. He's 26 which is prime time for a D but the mold is cast so don't expect him to ever become a gunner. 0.975 x 1 then UFA (but should be easy to re-sign fairly cheap.

Flyers likely protect him but would trade him after the ED to make room for yet another young D. The need there is forwards. Now that Hex has a bit of cap space I see a package deal of Manning & Schenn for Backlund & Stajan (if unclaimed) as possible. (BTW, Capfriendly shows Schenn as C/LW but he seems more @ home @ RW when he was played there.)

**************************************************************************************************

I was reading off season game plan about Carolina @ TSN. Hanifin seems available & Murphy out of favor. I'd like to scoop both as Hanifin (20 & on last year of ELC) fills our top 4 need while Murphy (24, 1 year @ 0.878 then RFA) could be a cheap reclaimation project.

There also the need is forwards. Since they have cap space maybe we can interest them in Brouwer.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Didn't run him although a year later after an on ice comment McDavid (& his cheerleader Don Cherry) reversed his comments of a year ago about hitting a rut. Manning & Gudas actually double teamed McDavid on that hit.

That said, I think Manning is someone we could & should add. 18+ minutes but only 12 points. He's 26 which is prime time for a D but the mold is cast so don't expect him to ever become a gunner. 0.975 x 1 then UFA (but should be easy to re-sign fairly cheap.

Flyers likely protect him but would trade him after the ED to make room for yet another young D. The need there is forwards. Now that Hex has a bit of cap space I see a package deal of Manning & Schenn for Backlund & Stajan (if unclaimed) as possible. (BTW, Capfriendly shows Schenn as C/LW but he seems more @ home @ RW when he was played there.)

**************************************************************************************************

I was reading off season game plan about Carolina @ TSN. Hanifin seems available & Murphy out of favor. I'd like to scoop both as Hanifin (20 & on last year of ELC) fills our top 4 need while Murphy (24, 1 year @ 0.878 then RFA) could be a cheap reclaimation project.

There also the need is forwards. Since they have cap space maybe we can interest them in Brouwer.

 

No to the deal with the Flyers.  It's probably fair to both teams, but I don't know that Schenn gives us enough back for losing two centers.

 

Yes to the Hanifin and/or Murphy.  RM would need to be protected, so that might need to hold off until the 22nd.  Hard to know what the cost would be.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I wouldn't mind a similar deal like the Hamilton one to land us a Goalie, the first line of defense. Use our 1st and whatever else to get our goal settled for a few years.

 

If it was a young goalie, similar to the Hamilton trade....yeah.  I'd do it.

 

But I think we may need a defenceman just as much if not more.

 

The 2018 draft is full of them....but that's a long time to wait for an 18 year old.

[MAC331]

58 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

No to the deal with the Flyers.  It's probably fair to both teams, but I don't know that Schenn gives us enough back for losing two centers.

 

Yes to the Hanifin and/or Murphy.  RM would need to be protected, so that might need to hold off until the 22nd.  Hard to know what the cost would be.

I wouldn't involve Schenn, just go for Manning.

[Flyerfan52]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

No to the deal with the Flyers.  It's probably fair to both teams, but I don't know that Schenn gives us enough back for losing two centers.

 

Yes to the Hanifin and/or Murphy.  RM would need to be protected, so that might need to hold off until the 22nd.  Hard to know what the cost would be.

Schenn was drafted as a center but was converted. The fact Stajan & Backlund are both centers means little as I doubt both are still Flames next year,

Regardless Schenn is 25 & has a 5.125 x 3 contract, plays all 3 forward positions & could fill that need @ 1st line RW.@ worst he's a top 6 to replace Backlund.

It might also force Bennett into assuming that #2 C role like we've been expecting. The clock is ticking on that.

 

I made the deal 2 for 2 because I honestly don't see any 1  part we have that Hex would accept straight across for Manning. I could do that easy from the Jets storehouse of forwards but I went with what I saw as less costly for the Flames.

The Flames add toughness in both zones @ the cost of 2 pending UFAs while saving a few $s. That does sound unfair so let's have the Flames add a conditional draft pick if Backlund doesn't re-sign.

 

Carolina will likely expose & lose Murphy in the LV draft. No matter as the 1 I want is Hanifin. I'm still game to lose Gio's contract to the draft instead of waiting like we did with Iggy. If not we expose Murphy.

Part of it is without Brouwer we have 1 more space to protect a forward because Brouwer's trade value alone makes him 1 we should protect. Since the Canes have room to protect him I see this as before the draft or they might as well trade whichever D(s) are left for a better offer. (Hanifin is a LD so I imagine the Jets trying to land him after the draft. Some of those young forwards that are surplus in Wpg. would be more attractive to Carolina than Brouwer IMO but the Jets can't add D until after the 22nd.)

Like I said in the goalies thread I see some deals as time sensitive.