Flames Defense

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

True, but doesn't that arguement get old after a while?  And shouldn't it be used in the other direction?  seems misplaced.

 

None of us have ever seen Ruttu play in the NHL.  LIkely none of us have seen him play more than a few minutes.   So why would that arguement be used to determine who and who cannot talk about him?

 

More importantly, why would we consider a guy we know so little about in the NHL, when he has Not really stood out in a far inferior league?

 

Who I have seen lots of, is Cervenka, Pribyl, and Ramo.   And all of them had better stats than Ruttu before they came here.

 

Offensive stats don't really mean that much when we are talking about a defeseman, even they did he was the 2nd highest scoring defenseman in that league. 

 

Basically it boils down to if you haven't watched him play then you have no basis to say whether or not he has NHL ability. 

 

If we are judging defensemen it should, can he skate? Can't find that out on a stats page. Can he defend? Eliteprospects doesn't give you enough stats to get a good idea of that either. Does he have good hockey sense? Again can't find that out on a stats page. Those are far more important things to know about a defenseman than how many points he put up.

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Offensive stats don't really mean that much when we are talking about a defeseman, even they did he was the 2nd highest scoring defenseman in that league. 

 

Basically it boils down to if you haven't watched him play then you have no basis to say whether or not he has NHL ability. 

 

If we are judging defensemen it should, can he skate? Can't find that out on a stats page. Can he defend? Eliteprospects doesn't give you enough stats to get a good idea of that either. Does he have good hockey sense? Again can't find that out on a stats page. Those are far more important things to know about a defenseman than how many points he put up.

 

20 years ago, man.  game's changed.

 

Those are all extremely valid qualifiers to ask After a player/defenseman's performance is clearly shown, including offense.

 

But if you don't have the offense or the stats....not much point in looking for further qualifiers anymore.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

20 years ago, man.  game's changed.

 

Not that much. Defenseman still have to skate, and defend.

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Not that much. Defenseman still have to skate, and defend.

 

True.    But that's not enough on its own anymore.

[Flyerfan52]

40 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

20 years ago, man.  game's changed.

 

Those are all extremely valid qualifiers to ask After a player/defenseman's performance is clearly shown, including offense.

 

But if you don't have the offense or the stats....not much point in looking for further qualifiers anymore.

In that case just have 5 fprwards on the ice every shift.

 

30+ years. This is no longer the "run & gun" 80s.

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

In that case just have 5 fprwards on the ice every shift.

 

30+ years. This is no longer the "run & gun" 80s.

 

I don't think anyone said that defensemen don't have to play defense.

 

Do you see big things for Rutta in the NHL next year then?  Sounds like you do.

[Flyerfan52]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I don't think anyone said that defensemen don't have to play defense.

 

Do you see big things for Rutta in the NHL next year then?  Sounds like you do.

Not really. I don't see players from the Euro leagues enough to form a real opinion as the international events are a different style of play than the NHL.

But I'm willing to take a chance given I'm not really impressed by our D prospects.

A cheapish 2 way contract I'll gamble on for a grown player to see if his games translates from a Euro league.

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Not really. I don't see players from the Euro leagues enough to form a real opinion as the international events are a different style of play than the NHL.

But I'm willing to take a chance given I'm not really impressed by our D prospects.

A cheapish 2 way contract I'll gamble on for a grown player to see if his games translates from a Euro league.

 

You realize the Oilers think this is a good idea? lol.    Well, we'll see.   In an expansion year, chances are some team will take that gamble.   But I don't see any good coming out of it.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

True, but doesn't that arguement get old after a while?  And shouldn't it be used in the other direction?  seems misplaced.

 

None of us have ever seen Ruttu play in the NHL.  LIkely none of us have seen him play more than a few minutes.   So why would that arguement be used to determine who can and who cannot talk about him?

 

More importantly, why would we consider a guy we know so little about in the NHL, when he has Not really stood out in a far inferior league?

 

Who I have seen lots of, is Cervenka, Pribyl, and Ramo.   And all of them had better stats  and more favourable age than Ruttu before they came here.

Why have a draft every year when only a low percentage ever make it to the NHL ? Why have scouting people all over the world trying to find that one player who could help your team ? Love your ending where you compare him to two forwards and a goalie.

The one smart thing you said was the only reason we may be considering him is because he is a RHS defenseman. BINGO. Our system lacks this need so why would we not have some interest. He also has some size and offensive ability according to the people that have actually seen him.

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

He also has some size and offensive ability according to the people that have actually seen him.

 

Sooo...  who are these people?

[MAC331]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

Sooo...  who are these people?

Likely talent scouts, ever heard of them ?

[jjgallow]

Just now, MAC331 said:

Likely talent scouts, ever heard of them ?

 

So....you have no idea lol.   Why did you post?

[MAC331]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

So....you have no idea lol.   Why did you post?

Oh just so I can add to your nothingness.

[jjgallow]

26 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Not really. I don't see players from the Euro leagues enough to form a real opinion as the international events are a different style of play than the NHL.

But I'm willing to take a chance given I'm not really impressed by our D prospects.

A cheapish 2 way contract I'll gamble on for a grown player to see if his games translates from a Euro league.

 

Well, according to Darren Dreger, which is basiclaly all the info we have, he's an "offensive D-man".   So I'm not sure how much of your arguement applies.   You could be severely dissapointed in terms of his game transating to what you see at a D position.  And those hoping for offense may also be dissapointed, because I don't see anything spectacular there.

 

But, between Darren Dreger and endorsement from the Oilers, what more could we ask for? 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

True, but doesn't that arguement get old after a while?  And shouldn't it be used in the other direction?  seems misplaced.

 

None of us have ever seen Ruttu play in the NHL.  LIkely none of us have seen him play more than a few minutes.   So why would that arguement be used to determine who can and who cannot talk about him?

 

More importantly, why would we consider a guy we know so little about in the NHL, when he has Not really stood out in a far inferior league?

 

Who I have seen lots of, is Cervenka, Pribyl, and Ramo.   And all of them had better stats  and more favourable age than Ruttu before they came here.

 

I saw Kiprusoff play once when he was with the sharks and I thought, we need this goalie. Scouting would be an amazing job, but one offs probably aren't enough to go by. I remember when we traded for him, I was excited. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, according to Darren Dreger, which is basiclaly all the info we have, he's an "offensive D-man".   So I'm not sure how much of your arguement applies.   You could be severely dissapointed in terms of his game transating to what you see at a D position.  And those hoping for offense may also be dissapointed, because I don't see anything spectacular there.

 

But, between Darren Dreger and endorsement from the Oilers, what more could we ask for? 

 

Do you think that the Hawks are a god judge of talent?  Perhaps the Oilers are just following around the Hawk scouts.

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, according to Darren Dreger, which is basiclaly all the info we have, he's an "offensive D-man".   So I'm not sure how much of your arguement applies.   You could be severely dissapointed in terms of his game transating to what you see at a D position.  And those hoping for offense may also be dissapointed, because I don't see anything spectacular there.

 

But, between Darren Dreger and endorsement from the Oilers, what more could we ask for? 

I don't know why you quoted me twice & said basically the same thing.

Yes. I could be disappointed in his game translating to the NHL but I could be disappointed in any prospect transitioning from the AHL, junior or a Euro team. I'll reiterate that I'm willing to take a chance on a cheapish 2 way contract.

 

As far as the Oilers I don't care about who they endorse. They've done that in a range from McDavid to Yakupov by selecting them 1st OA.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

As far as the Oilers I don't care about who they endorse. They've done that in a range from McDavid to Yakupov by selecting them 1st OA.

 

They get points for figuring out McDavid was a good pick?

[cross16]

Definetly the slow part of the offseason when a player that no one has seen play and likely won't amount to much any way generates a page worth of heated discussion. And there's a real chance he never even becomes a Flame. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Do you think that the Hawks are a god judge of talent?  Perhaps the Oilers are just following around the Hawk scouts.

 

Lol....not following this train of thought, but yeah.  I think the Hawks are good at scouting.  Which is why they signed David Kamf rather than Rutta

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Lol....not following this train of thought, but yeah.  I think the Hawks are good at scouting.  Which is why they signed David Kamf rather than Rutta

 

You don;t follow the rumours then.  CHI was/is interested in Rutta.  The lure to going to CHI is less after they have been eliminated in the playoffs 1st round two years in a row.

[cross16]

11 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Lol....not following this train of thought, but yeah.  I think the Hawks are good at scouting.  Which is why they signed David Kamf rather than Rutta

 

Hawks are in on Rutta. 

Also id take a gander at the Hawks scouting the last 5-6 years if that is your standard. 

[jjgallow]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

Hawks are in on Rutta. 

Also id take a gander at the Hawks scouting the last 5-6 years if that is your standard. 

 

Are they actually in it, or is their agent just creating a bit of a frenzy because they signed his team-mate?   I don't see why, if they had the team that well scouted, they waited until now to sign him when they already had a more promising 22 yr old David Kamf.

 

Either way, yeah.   They have struggled in the last few drafts.   

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Are they actually in it, or is their agent just creating a bit of a frenzy because they signed his team-mate?   I don't see why, if they had the team that well scouted, they waited until now to sign him when they already had a more promising 22 yr old David Kamf.

 

Either way, yeah.   They have struggled in the last few drafts.   

 

Are the flames in it? Or is the agent using them to drum up interest too?

the Hawks have been busy in the college and international FA market because they deal away so many picks and they need to replenish depth. They are shallow on D and likely could lose Trevor Van Riemsdyke to the Expansion draft. Would make perfect sense they were in on a RH dman that could challenge for a roster spot sooner rather than later. 

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Are the flames in it? Or is the agent using them to drum up interest too?

the Hawks have been busy in the college and international FA market because they deal away so many picks and they need to replenish depth. They are shallow on D and likely could lose Trevor Van Riemsdyke to the Expansion draft. Would make perfect sense they were in on a RH dman that could challenge for a roster spot sooner rather than later. 

 

I have no credible reason to believe that the Flames are actually in it.  Or Chicago.   Just pulled up that one Chicago blogger, still not convinced.

 

More importantly, kind of a blah topic....as you've pointed out.   I would just be a little choked if that's the best the Flames could come up with.