Flames Defense

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Would he be UFA ?

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Would he be UFA ?

 

Yes

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

He's an offensive dman. not very Smid like. 

 

No, but I would like the tough part of Smid of old.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Would he be UFA ?

 

If you are thinking whether we have to protect him, then no we don't.

[manu11]

No harm in trying someone out, who has done well in his home country. Unfortunately I haven't been able to see a single match of Team Czech Republic at the WC, so I have no clue about him.

[MAC331]

21 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you are thinking whether we have to protect him, then no we don't.

Well that and if we had to give anything up for him. Where is he now so I can see his profile ?

[manu11]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Well that and if we had to give anything up for him. Where is he now so I can see his profile ?

 

His profile from eliteprospects

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=18090

 

[The_People1]

Ever since Daniel Prybil flopped, I've lost my confidence in the Czech League.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, manu11 said:

 

His profile from eliteprospects

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=18090

 

THX manu. I hope we are in on this defensemen if not just because we need RHS defensemen. Bring him on BT.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Ever since Daniel Prybil flopped, I've lost my confidence in the Czech League.

Flopped how ?

[manu11]

50 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

THX manu. I hope we are in on this defensemen if not just because we need RHS defensemen. Bring him on BT.

 

I don't see a risk here. He is still 26 years old if we sign him before July 29th, so he should be eligible to sign a 1 year ELC contract, no?

[MAC331]

14 hours ago, manu11 said:

 

I don't see a risk here. He is still 26 years old if we sign him before July 29th, so he should be eligible to sign a 1 year ELC contract, no?

I agree with you and hope we are in on him. He is a good age 26, has some size and looking at his stats he is capable of some production. Can he defend will be part of the assessment ? We need RS-RHS defensemen. We have some fellow Czechs in Frolic, Pribyl and Rittich, fingers crossed.

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I agree with you and hope we are in on him. He is a good age 26, has some size and looking at his stats he is capable of some production. Can he defend will be part of the assessment ? We need RS-RHS defensemen. We have some fellow Czechs in Frolic, Pribyl and Rittich, fingers crossed.

 

Interesting that Parson, Frolik, and Lindstrom are represented by the same agency (Octagon) as Rutta.  I would suggest that Pribykl was not a flop, as he had injury issues to compound him moving to NA ice.  I believe they used him at center, instead of RW too.

[cross16]

17 hours ago, manu11 said:

 

I don't see a risk here. He is still 26 years old if we sign him before July 29th, so he should be eligible to sign a 1 year ELC contract, no?

 

Yup 1 year ELC.

 

worst case he goes down on helps your PP In Stockton and gives you another RH shot (unlikely they keep Morrison). Best case he is on your NHL team helping your PP in a sheltered offensive role.  either scenario helps your organization.

[MAC331]

33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yup 1 year ELC.

 

worst case he goes down on helps your PP In Stockton and gives you another RH shot (unlikely they keep Morrison). Best case he is on your NHL team helping your PP in a sheltered offensive role.  either scenario helps your organization.

I hear our competition could be EDM.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I hear our competition could be EDM.

 

CHI is in on him.  I have heard that teams have submitted offers, but EDM had not yet.

[jjgallow]

On 18/05/2017 at 4:03 PM, The_People1 said:

Ever since Daniel Prybil flopped, I've lost my confidence in the Czech League.

 

Exactly.    Also, I've lost my confidence in the Flames signing players in their late 20's who have never played a game in the NHL, because they're the "best whatever to not play in the NHL".

 

I'm all fine with acquiring players overseas.  But get some actual prospects who can adjust to the league.   Why we keep following a known recipe of failure is beyond me.

 

Pribyl, Nakladal, Ramo (if you ask me), Cervenka....   why, when we know we're Not good at it?

 

As far as the "this is different" camp.....what is different about it?   Jan Rutta Doesn't have stand-out numbers, his stats Don't scream star NHLer...why???

 

 

Like, if we Have to get a player out of the Czech league (which we don't), why not at least get a 21 year old if his numbers are similar to Rutta at 26?

 

I.....don't...get it lol.

 

ie:

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=190265

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Exactly.    Also, I've lost my confidence in the Flames signing players in their late 20's who have never played a game in the NHL, because they're the "best whatever to not play in the NHL".

 

I'm all fine with acquiring players overseas.  But get some actual prospects who can adjust to the league.   Why we keep following a known recipe of failure is beyond me.

 

Pribyl, Nakladal, Ramo (if you ask me), Cervenka....   why, when we know we're Not good at it?

 

As far as the "this is different" camp.....what is different about it?   Jan Rutta Doesn't have stand-out numbers, his stats Don't scream star NHLer...why???

 

 

Like, if we Have to get a player out of the Czech league (which we don't), why not at least get a 21 year old if his numbers are similar to Rutta at 26?

 

I.....don't...get it lol.

 

ie:

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=190265

You are right, you don't get it.

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Exactly.    Also, I've lost my confidence in the Flames signing players in their late 20's who have never played a game in the NHL, because they're the "best whatever to not play in the NHL".

 

I'm all fine with acquiring players overseas.  But get some actual prospects who can adjust to the league.   Why we keep following a known recipe of failure is beyond me.

 

Pribyl, Nakladal, Ramo (if you ask me), Cervenka....   why, when we know we're Not good at it?

 

As far as the "this is different" camp.....what is different about it?   Jan Rutta Doesn't have stand-out numbers, his stats Don't scream star NHLer...why???

 

 

Like, if we Have to get a player out of the Czech league (which we don't), why not at least get a 21 year old if his numbers are similar to Rutta at 26?

 

I.....don't...get it lol.

 

ie:

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=190265

 

Signing a 26 year old defender or a 24 year old winger is not an unreasonable thing to do.  They have developed their skill in another league, so you are not committing years of development to them.  If they are good enough, they will adapt soon enough.  

 

You talk about getting a 21 year old, but what's his status?  Is he signed to a contract?

BTW, there is no similarity between the two players' numbers.  Your guy scored about .33 p/gp in his best season (current).

 

Not going to continue arguing about a player we haven't even signed.  

[Thebrewcrew]

Just looking at capfriendly's expansion draft tool. It appears TB will either need to expose Sustr or Dotchin. Any interest in either? I know a trade with TB is unlikely to happen as then CGY would need to protect one of them. But if one is claimed by Vegas, what would be reasonable to give up for one of them?

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Signing a 26 year old defender or a 24 year old winger is not an unreasonable thing to do.  They have developed their skill in another league, so you are not committing years of development to them.  If they are good enough, they will adapt soon enough.  

 

Signing Artemi Panarin, who was 23, and a clear standout rapidly improving in a clearly elite league (the KHL), was not an unreasonable thing to do.

 

Signing a 26 year old out of a league which isn't elite (Czech), who has Not stood out on it (23rd in scoring), when there are players and defencemen who are Out-playing him in that league right now, who we basically know would not be successful in the NHL........    is a an unreasonable thing to do.

 

And if you're still unconvinced, consider that the Oilers are interested.

 

Quote

 

You talk about getting a 21 year old, but what's his status?  Is he signed to a contract?

BTW, there is no similarity between the two players' numbers.  Your guy scored about .33 p/gp in his best season (current).

 

You are right about this, because when Rutta was 21, he mustered up 8 points in the Czech league.

 

Klok has that many assists, and 15 points in total.   Literally twice the potential.   

 

If you looked at their points per minutes played, you would likely find that there are very few differences between them at this moment in time, not considering age.

 

 

The only reason Ruttu comes up, is because he is a R hand shot, and we think he might be able to plug a hole for us on the Flames.  But the vastly more likely option is he ends up rotting away in the AHL, and actually Clogging up development there, preventing us from solving that problem through our pipeline (what is happening with Pribyl now).

 

Klok would Also probably get sent down, but would likely dominate in the AHL and be one of our top prospects.  And I'm not even suggesting Klok really, I think there's better examples out there in better leagues.    Decisions like this cannot be so short sighted.

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Signing Artemi Panarin, who was 23, and a clear standout rapidly improving in a clearly elite league (the KHL), was not an unreasonable thing to do.

 

Signing a 26 year old out of a league which isn't elite (Czech), who has Not stood out on it (23rd in scoring), when there are players and defencemen who are Out-playing him in that league right now, who we basically know would not be successful in the NHL........    is a an unreasonable thing to do.

 

And if you're still unconvinced, consider that the Oilers are interested.

 

 

You are right about this, because when Rutta was 21, he mustered up 8 points in the Czech league.

 

Klok has that many assists, and 15 points in total.   Literally twice the potential.   

 

If you looked at their points per minutes played, you would likely find that there are very few differences between them at this moment in time, not considering age.

 

 

The only reason Ruttu comes up, is because he is a R hand shot, and we think he might be able to plug a hole for us on the Flames.  But the vastly more likely option is he ends up rotting away in the AHL, and actually Clogging up development there, preventing us from solving that problem through our pipeline (what is happening with Pribyl now).

 

Klok would Also probably get sent down, but would likely dominate in the AHL and be one of our top prospects.  And I'm not even suggesting Klok really, I think there's better examples out there in better leagues.    Decisions like this cannot be so short sighted.

 

 

 

 

If one season at a particular age had anything to do with success, then there would be a lot more players thriving in the NHL.  So, assuming we could sign him, where does he even fit?  Development in the AHL?  Seems to me we have a logjam of young players not particularly offensively gifted, all trying to make  to the next level.  Next year we could have Fox and Hickey jamming things up even more.

 

ON one hand you consider the Czech league to be not impressive, but somehow Klok gets raised to be a top prospect in the AHL?  Maybe you are a great scout, but I'm missing something.  His career totals do not look that impressive.  

 

If you think that because the OIlers are interested that it makes the decision stupid, consider that the Hawks are also interested.  

[JTech780]

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Signing Artemi Panarin, who was 23, and a clear standout rapidly improving in a clearly elite league (the KHL), was not an unreasonable thing to do.

 

Signing a 26 year old out of a league which isn't elite (Czech), who has Not stood out on it (23rd in scoring), when there are players and defencemen who are Out-playing him in that league right now, who we basically know would not be successful in the NHL........    is a an unreasonable thing to do.

 

And if you're still unconvinced, consider that the Oilers are interested.

 

 

You are right about this, because when Rutta was 21, he mustered up 8 points in the Czech league.

 

Klok has that many assists, and 15 points in total.   Literally twice the potential.   

 

If you looked at their points per minutes played, you would likely find that there are very few differences between them at this moment in time, not considering age.

 

 

The only reason Ruttu comes up, is because he is a R hand shot, and we think he might be able to plug a hole for us on the Flames.  But the vastly more likely option is he ends up rotting away in the AHL, and actually Clogging up development there, preventing us from solving that problem through our pipeline (what is happening with Pribyl now).

 

Klok would Also probably get sent down, but would likely dominate in the AHL and be one of our top prospects.  And I'm not even suggesting Klok really, I think there's better examples out there in better leagues.    Decisions like this cannot be so short sighted.

 

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you seen Rutta play? Not saying you are wrong about him, just that unless you have watched him play a bunch, judging a players ability, especially a defenseman, based on his eliteprospects page is kind of short sighted. 

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If one season at a particular age had anything to do with success, then there would be a lot more players thriving in the NHL. 

 

That is an excellent reason to question signing Klok (which, I've cautioned against, in every single one of my posts on this).

 

However, it has nothing to do with making a better arguement for Ruttu.   Just because Klok looks like a better acquisition, and Klok may not be good enough, does NOT make Ruttu a better acquisition.  Neither of them are overly compelling, Ruttu just happens to be the harder sell in two tough sells.

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you seen Rutta play? Not saying you are wrong about him, just that unless you have watched him play a bunch, judging a players ability, especially a defenseman, based on his eliteprospects page is kind of short sighted. 

 

True, but doesn't that arguement get old after a while?  And shouldn't it be used in the other direction?  seems misplaced.

 

None of us have ever seen Ruttu play in the NHL.  LIkely none of us have seen him play more than a few minutes.   So why would that arguement be used to determine who can and who cannot talk about him?

 

More importantly, why would we consider a guy we know so little about in the NHL, when he has Not really stood out in a far inferior league?

 

Who I have seen lots of, is Cervenka, Pribyl, and Ramo.   And all of them had better stats  and more favourable age than Ruttu before they came here.