travel_dude Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I meant he is slowing down skating wise. I see Wideman as a liability defensively and I think being paired with Russell covered a lot of his short comings on that side of things. Wideman is very good offensively there is no doubt about that, he also stepped it up in that department after Gio went down, so I get why people would hesitant to trade him. I think we have the guys that can produce offensively to cover for the loss of Wideman if he was traded. Giving Wideman 28 minutes was a mistake, but the only reasonable solution without disrupting both top pairs. Playing him 20 minutes allows him to make use of his (limited) speed. Russell did cover his deficiencies, but at the same time, left us with a physical guy smaller than 75% of the forwards he was facing. Pair Wideman with a physical, bigger version of Russell and you are set. Pair Russell with a bigger physical guy and you are set. All three pairs have a balance of power and can be rolled with similar minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wow I think you are all seriously underrating Wideman and quite frankly being pretty harsh. I thougth Wideman had a terrific season and I strongly disagree using terms like "losing a step" or "liability defensivly" when it comes to Wideman. I don't think he has lost a step at all, does he make glaring mistakes in his own end sure that's the type of dman he is but I think overall he was still quite solid defensivly nor do I think Russell covered up for him. I think the two of them just complimented each other very well and played off each others strengths and weakness. Wideman is going to go for a bigger play, in all areas, and its going to cost him from time to time and Russell was there to cover him just like Russell is most of the time too safe and won't make a play that Wideman can make. Pairing had great synergy and both played off each other and personally I thought Wideman had a better year then Russell. Now having said that given his age, his contract and his history of having one good year to one bad year, I am very open to a trade but only the right now and I don't see it happening. Wideman's contract is decent value, but with the cap not going up that much and lots of teams closer to the top I think you are going to have a very hard time moving that contract and getting any value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I think Wideman was really good this season. I am not sold that he will keep that up though. I think you can move him, even with his contract. I would do that. I would try and move Engellend. You couldn't move him early. But after he stepped it up in the final third I think you may be able to now. If not he is on the third. Smid has to be your 7D at best. But I don't know if he plays again. You definitely don't put him in the top 4. Wideman was terrible paired with Smid. I think you trade Wideman and look to add two players. Green, Schenn, and a few others come to mind. We need more depth on D. We need to move Wideman while there is value. We need to keep our D mobile by moving players that aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Personally I dont think we keep both smid and engelland both have big contracts and are no more then 6D. Id like to see both gone to be honest, and see something like this. Gio - Brodie Russell- ? Wotherspoon- Wideman If we can find a big, punishing D to play with Russell that would be a perfect world. Allowing us to roll all 3 D pairings and reducing minutes. I think Wideman and wotherspoon would be great on the 3rd pairing together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 What about trading Wideman to MON for someone like Jarred Tinordi LHS and sign Green as a FA for the RS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Personally I dont think we keep both smid and engelland both have big contracts and are no more then 6D. Id like to see both gone to be honest, and see something like this. Gio - Brodie Russell- ? Wotherspoon- Wideman If we can find a big, punishing D to play with Russell that would be a perfect world. Allowing us to roll all 3 D pairings and reducing minutes. I think Wideman and wotherspoon would be great on the 3rd pairing together. I still dont personally think Wotherspoon is ready , if you can pair him properly and protect him, possibly . hes one of those bubble guys, too good for the minors, but not quite prime time ready. Tellis was it was mainly him in Game 1 against Anaheim that just simply watched Perry walk out from behind the net and pick his spot. Flyer Fan mentioned earlier, and i fully agree.. we need to go hard for Beauchimen, with his history with Burke i think its highly doable. Another name I'll add to the mix is Barrett Jackman. Hes a tough, hard hitting shut down defenseman with easily a few years left. One or both add elements we need, and have just enough time left to bridge the gap to the future D's taking their place Can you imagine? GIO -BRODIE WIDEMAN-JACKMAN RUSSELL-BEAUCHIMAN Engelland and Wotherspoon as your 7/8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Firstly, i would reach out to the Mike Green camp and see if he has any desire to come play in his hometown Calgary. If so, then i think you give him Wideman's money (and up to $6-mil-per) and move Wideman because Wideman has just had a career year and it's unlikely he's going to repeat. It's time to sell high and try to get that RW we need. Green is a RHS RD. He may no longer be a #1 stud Dman but he's definitely still 2/3 and can play 22 to 25 minutes per game, and QB the PP. This was not his most productive season and yet, was able to have 45-points in 72-games. Quietly going about his business. He's an offensive Dman at heart and Hartley happens to play the style of hockey that could allow him to return to 60+ point form. By next season, he will turn 30 (2 years younger than Wideman). He will also be 3 years removed from some significant injuries that he's suffered. He could put all that behind him knowing he's getting a fresh start on an up and coming team, and his home town team, and come back next season strong and motivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wotherspoon just needs to come into a camp healthy and have a chance to take a job. I thought he was ok in the playoffs, as good as Schlemko, Potter, Diaz for sure, but he needs to stay healthy. I think every year since he has been drafted he seems to have issues, mainly shoulders if I recall correctly, that seem to derail his offseason. Hopefully he can finally get healthy and work out strong in the offseason and come in ready to take a job but I agree at this point you can't hand him anything he needs to prove it. I am however, willing to give him a bit of a pass due to injury issues. Personally, pass on Beauchemin. 35 years old so risky on a multi year deal and I wasn't overly impressed with him during the Ducks series. Still solid but nothing special anymore like he use to be and I don't think signing a guy in that situation is worth it just to have him as a depth d or on the 3rd pairing and you will still likely need to pay him 3 mill plus. Personally I'm not impressed but much on the FA market when it comes to defence. They've got some internal options that can battle and create depth and outside of maybe a Bartowski, I think I would look to the trade market. Too many older dman who I think are going to be too expensive just to add a bit of a depth. I'd rather address depth in the age bracket of 25-30 via trade then sign someone 30plus on a short term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Is there any word on Smid returning? Is his career done? Sounds like he has a back problem but there's been no updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Personally Im still set on Schenn out of philly. I think he would fit perfectly with russell on the second pairing allowing us to move wideman down to the third pairing. If wotherspoon isent ready out of camp you can always sign someone like schlemko to play the 3rd pairing minutes with wideman or even engelland( thought I dont really like that). It would give us far more balanced D pairings and overall more balanced minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 outside of maybe a Bartowski, I think I would look to the trade market. I like Bartkowski too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I think trading for a D that fully fits our needs is too costly . We have enough coming down the pipe that to almost certainly give up picks and prospects is detrimental . i think we are in a position to use our cap space to sign proper free agents to short enough deals that even if you overpay a bit , by the time we need that money to sign our own kids theyre off the books and someone else has graduated to take the spots. If we learned anything from Anaheim, its that we can be beaten up and pushed around, we lack the Solid, Defensive shut down and painful defenseman... not talking fighters or goons, but the dmen that hurt you when you come into our end.. eg: a younger Robyn Regehr, or what Dion could have/should have been. Green, as suggested, i would say is too much money to just simply give us what we have in Wideman Bartkowski, i do like.. forgot about him earlier I disagree that FB was unproductive in the Anaheim series.. he's shut down , provides offensive spark, can skate, pass and is something we dont have.. add to that , he's been the D leader and responsible for grooming their kids. Jackman might be unrealistic, pretty sure he wants to resign in St Louis, but would be an awesome addition to our d core Bartkowski is young enough to give longer term to, but in the case case of FB, or Jackman, 2-3 yrs good $, and you fill the gap between the NHL and the farm, and it only costs you cap space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Honestly I think you are gunna overpay on the free agent market for beachumin and jackman. A trade for a player like luke schenn or mark pysyk who have some potential next season and for a few years down the road fits the rebuild more in my opinion then a 35 year old player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Honestly I think you are gunna overpay on the free agent market for beachumin and jackman. A trade for a player like luke schenn or mark pysyk who have some potential next season and for a few years down the road fits the rebuild more in my opinion then a 35 year old player. Absolutely you overpay , im thinkin 5-6.6 mill per season gets it done.. 2-3 years.. maybe 7 for Jackman or equal to what Gio gets..but its money .. its off the books in short order before we need it. Schenn will likely cost you a 1st round pick , or more.. add a decent prospect or 2. I believe we have names already in the pipe who will be as good or better than Schenn is now, and you''l probably lose at least one of them to get him . by just spending $ now, you get the best of all worlds, keep your picks and your kids, stock your own shelf and fill the gap created by Sutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Green, as suggested, i would say is too much money to just simply give us what we have in Wideman Bartkowski, i do like.. forgot about him earlier I can't remember if Wideman has a NTC or not but the reason i suggested Green was because we can trade Wideman for a RW. There are not many high end RWs availlable via UFA so we will likely have to trade for one. If Wideman can get us a RW better than what's available via UFA, then we sign Green. I also suggested Green because he's from Calgary and so i hope we have an inside edge on other teams bidding for his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I can't remember if Wideman has a NTC or not but the reason i suggested Green was because we can trade Wideman for a RW. There are not many high end RWs availlable via UFA so we will likely have to trade for one. If Wideman can get us a RW better than what's available via UFA, then we sign Green. I also suggested Green because he's from Calgary and so i hope we have an inside edge on other teams bidding for his services. I can definitely see your thinking when you put it that way . My only fear is that Green is already a $5.25 M hit and will get that or more as UFA..If we could keep him in that same range(which is identical to Wideman ) then I'd be for it, if the return for Wideman made sense. Only downside is a team willing to give us the RW we want in exchange , why wouldnt they just keep their RW and sign Green themselves? and doing one first doesn't guarantee you the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I can definitely see your thinking when you put it that way . My only fear is that Green is already a $5.25 M hit and will get that or more as UFA..If we could keep him in that same range(which is identical to Wideman ) then I'd be for it, if the return for Wideman made sense. Only downside is a team willing to give us the RW we want in exchange , why wouldnt they just keep their RW and sign Green themselves? and doing one first doesn't guarantee you the other Yea, that's part of the trick. We must sign Mike Green first. Green is a RHS RD who can play top pair and many many teams are looking for that. Once Green is off the UFA market, the Flames can put Wideman on the trade market and demand the moon, or very close to it. Wideman has increased his trade value during these playoffs with the Flames. He and Russell was basically the top pair and played very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Lumping Engelland in with other big D-men is not really fair. If Russell was bigger than 5'10", he might have had an easier time with the Maroon/Getzlaf/Perry line. He has the heart of a lion, but he can't take out a guy 5 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier 20+ minutes per game. I would take a combo of Brodie's skills, Gio's toughness and Kanzig's size every day. Vancouver's biggest guy is Edler (6'3" 215 pounds, not exactly bruiser size) and is not a fierce player. They were afraid of taking hits. If Big Buff or Ferland or Chara is coming at your D-men, do you want to have a Kanzig size player or a Russell size player? If Kanzig had Russell's speed and skill, of course. You're arguing for a guy who hasn't proved anything, has skating issues so far and really may only amount to toughness. He is irrelevant so far. Honestly I think you are gunna overpay on the free agent market for beachumin and jackman. A trade for a player like luke schenn or mark pysyk who have some potential next season and for a few years down the road fits the rebuild more in my opinion then a 35 year old player. Beauchemin is an Anahiem boy through and through. He's not going anywhere. He was horrible in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 If Kanzig had Russell's speed and skill, of course. You're arguing for a guy who hasn't proved anything, has skating issues so far and really may only amount to toughness. He is irrelevant so far. Beauchemin is an Anahiem boy through and through. He's not going anywhere. He was horrible in Toronto. I think the skating issues are overblown. Whenever I saw him (WHL level, mind you), he looked fine. I was using Kanzig only as an example of size, though. Saying that, it will be interesting to see him at the AHL level to see what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I think he's one they'd have to be patient with. How does he compare to Breen? Not that you can really compare them just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I think the skating issues are overblown. Whenever I saw him (WHL level, mind you), he looked fine.I was using Kanzig only as an example of size, though. Saying that, it will be interesting to see him at the AHL level to see what he can do. Agree that the times I saw Kanzig he was fine too. It will be good to get him in the AHL and directly under Flames control so he can specifically work on areas of need. Next year I think we may have a player in Morrison, could have a player in Hickey, Kulkin or Kulak and should have a player in Wotherspoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I think he's one they'd have to be patient with. How does he compare to Breen? Not that you can really compare them just yet. Breen isn't really comparable. Breen was slow even for the AHL, and was softer than when Colborne first put on CGY silks. Take either of those two, add about 40 pounds, add a dose of Seilof snarl, and a throw in some Wolfie. I would like to see him spend some serious time with a power-skating coach, and mature in a good environment. A goon is useless, but a monster that can skate and defend and doesn't get goaded into fights every game is worth his weight in gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Eric Duhatchek was just on Fan960 saying the new Giordano contract will be either; 1) $9-mil-per for 5-years 2) $7-mil-per for 7-years. And he said it with no hesitation as to suggest it's just common knowledge that a top 5 Dman in the NHL should be making that kind of money. Like, he would pay that no problem if he was a GM and that no other GM in the NHL would hesitate either. He said it's essentially PK Subban money (and that it's got to be more than Dion Phaneuf). Duhatchek also made a great point that Giordano has not made a lot of money in his career (relatively speaking). This is his first opportunity at a big contract and so Giordano will probably max it out and that if the Flames offer him a 3-year deal, then that's a bit of a slap in the face. All in all, these numbers are not far from what I was personally expecting but obviously, a lot of you guys will be shocked to find out the numbers are this high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Time will tell, some GM's slay me the way they hand out big dollars like candy. Personally I think Giordano should be well paid somewhere between 6 and 7M but I wouldn't get carried away with a lengthy term. This injury he suffered could easily happen again now that it has happened once. Plus with the lower payroll now and a number of real good players growing into higher $$$ contracts the Flames will have to map out a solid growth strategy. Anyways I believe the Flames will treat him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 MTL are done with Gonchar, Malhotra, and Weaver http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/marc-bergevin-says-sergei-gonchar-manny-malhotra-mike-weaver-wont-return-to-montreal-canadiens/ Are any of these guys appealing, even for a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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