The Official Calgary Flames "New Arena" thread

[conundrumed]

Eric Frances looks mad and talking "misinformed". Must have been the right decision.

[The_People1]

I'm indifferent because while i remember the 88 Olympics as a kid and want my kids to enjoy the same experiences growing up, I didn't want to be in debt for this.  The IOC has lost so much trust and credibility internationally going around the world bankrupting cities.  Lambourghini's are great but not in a time when we can only afford a Civic.  Ya dad's going to pitch in half but still.  I think Calgary did the sane thing here and didn't succumb to impulse buying.  It's a shame so much money is involved and we can't find a more affordable solution.

 

What cities are left in the bid now that we are potentially out?  Basically only one city in Italy or something like that?  I'm seriously hoping even Italy cannot come through with a bid leaving the IOC to dump another 1-billion into the pot for us to host the games.

 

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Bid is dead unless the city and Bidco can find a way to replace the 2.3 billion in funding the Feds and Province put up. 

 

May be a surprise to some but I ended up voting yes. I think it was a good idea and a good funding model thst would have done great things to correct a very deficient sporting infrastructure in Calgary. I'm sad that complete lack of leadership at our City Hall wrecked what could have been quite the legacy. Can't believe we have to ride out 3 more years of this brutal city council. 

The Olympics were never going to impact the city much in terms of raising people's spirits or developing significant infrastructure. The Alberta economy is doing poorly and we need to tighten the belt. This is not the time to talk about blowing $1.2-$1.8 billion on multiplexes or sports parties. The library is fit for a Saudi king. When you lose your job, you don't go out and buy an expensive new car to raise your spirits or for when you find another job.

[Cowtownguy]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I'm indifferent because while i remember the 88 Olympics as a kid and want my kids to enjoy the same experiences growing up, I didn't want to be in debt for this.  The IOC has lost so much trust and credibility internationally going around the world bankrupting cities.  Lambourghini's are great but not in a time when we can only afford a Civic.  Ya dad's going to pitch in half but still.  I think Calgary did the sane thing here and didn't succumb to impulse buying.  It's a shame so much money is involved and we can't find a more affordable solution.

 

What cities are left in the bid now that we are potentially out?  Basically only one city in Italy or something like that?  I'm seriously hoping even Italy cannot come through with a bid leaving the IOC to dump another 1-billion into the pot for us to host the games.

 

 

 

I didn't feel strongly about it myself either. I wasn't going to be upset either way. I just didn't see much in the way of benefits if we went ahead with the bid and I would have been very surprised if we didn't endure cost overruns. They were not even capable of producing the entire cost of the games a month before the plebiscite, and I assume that they set that date. How can we believe that they would not blow the budget when they were unable to produce it in the first place?

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

The Olympics were never going to impact the city much in terms of raising people's spirits or developing significant infrastructure. The Alberta economy is doing poorly and we need to tighten the belt. This is not the time to talk about blowing $1.2-$1.8 billion on multiplexes or sports parties. The library is fit for a Saudi king. When you lose your job, you don't go out and buy an expensive new car to raise your spirits or for when you find another job.

 

However in a time of need we just said no to over 2 billion worth of external investment. Money we have pretty much have a zero shot at receiving now. 

 

Either way, no point in debating it. It's done and have to respect the democratic process but I think it was a missed opportunity. Have to keep waiting another 30 years for a single field house, continue to see facilities degrade and face ice shortages all over town. 

[kehatch]

If I went to my boss with a significant capital request and the best I could do to justify it was some outside investment, contentious financial claims, and a lot of cheerleading I would not only be denied, but I would impact my credibility for future asks. 

 

Council failed to provide a credible proposal that told us it was a safe investment and what the benefits of that investment was. 

 

It may end up being a missed opportunity. It might also turn out to be a near miss. But the information wasn't there to make an informed decision. 

 

Which is why I am already sick of the social media pointing fingers at voters. The voters made the right call with the info available. The lack of information is on city hall. Shame on them. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

However in a time of need we just said no to over 2 billion worth of external investment. Money we have pretty much have a zero shot at receiving now. 

 

Either way, no point in debating it. It's done and have to respect the democratic process but I think it was a missed opportunity. Have to keep waiting another 30 years for a single field house, continue to see facilities degrade and face ice shortages all over town. 

 

Yup, a bunch of community centres were refurbished in Vancouver and a few are state of the art facilities. A brand new one was built as well. They’re all extremely well used now too. I am not a home owner so I don’t feel the land tax as much. Rent has sky rocketed though. It feels like it is everywhere, so go figure. 

 

There would have been plenty of construction jobs and those new incomes affect local business. Trickle down that isn’t going to happen now. 

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

However in a time of need we just said no to over 2 billion worth of external investment. Money we have pretty much have a zero shot at receiving now. 

 

Either way, no point in debating it. It's done and have to respect the democratic process but I think it was a missed opportunity. Have to keep waiting another 30 years for a single field house, continue to see facilities degrade and face ice shortages all over town. 

I would say this had more to do with a lack of faith in the current set of politicians than wanting to hold another Winter Olympics here. The 1988 Olympics unified the entire Province while this effort proved to be very divisive due to a lack of trust not only in the numbers but the ability to deliver without a huge debt. Let's get on with what the real needs are for Calgary.

[The_People1]

Just now, MAC331 said:

I would say this had more to do with a lack of faith in the current set of politicians than wanting to hold another Winter Olympics here. The 1988 Olympics unified the entire Province while this effort proved to be very divisive due to a lack of trust not only in the numbers but the ability to deliver without a huge debt. Let's get on with what the real needs are for Calgary.

 

Ya agreed this is a vote of non-confidence in Nenshi and gang.  It appears our mayor has lost his touch with Calgarians.  This will likely be his final term.

[ABC923]

Ironically, I think the plan may have been too austere.  Given that very few new facilities were going to be built, the price tag seemed quite high.  I get that costs for refurbishment are generally large these days, but it feels like the value to people just wasn't there.  5+ billion for a new arena and facelifts on a bunch of facilities, plus a couple small infrastructure projects just isn't palatable.  7+ billion that includes more new facilities (Calgary Next maybe, new field house, Calgary West development) and more visible infrastructure benefits (LRT line to the airport?) might have had more support.  And maybe some of these things were in the plan, but you know what?  The fact that would be news to me speaks to the poor job the city did of selling the games.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Ironically, I think the plan may have been too austere.  Given that very few new facilities were going to be built, the price tag seemed quite high.  I get that costs for refurbishment are generally large these days, but it feels like the value to people just wasn't there.  5+ billion for a new arena and facelifts on a bunch of facilities, plus a couple small infrastructure projects just isn't palatable.  7+ billion that includes more new facilities (Calgary Next maybe, new field house, Calgary West development) and more visible infrastructure benefits (LRT line to the airport?) might have had more support.  And maybe some of these things were in the plan, but you know what?  The fact that would be news to me speaks to the poor job the city did of selling the games.

I would say let's carry on with building World Class facilities within and around Calgary. We don't necessarily need the IOC to hold a winter games event when we are ready.

I agree we keep building our infrastructure and the new Arena theme area. Calgary needs to assemble a Development Committee to brain storm a better plan for the future.

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Ironically, I think the plan may have been too austere.  Given that very few new facilities were going to be built, the price tag seemed quite high.  I get that costs for refurbishment are generally large these days, but it feels like the value to people just wasn't there.  5+ billion for a new arena and facelifts on a bunch of facilities, plus a couple small infrastructure projects just isn't palatable.  7+ billion that includes more new facilities (Calgary Next maybe, new field house, Calgary West development) and more visible infrastructure benefits (LRT line to the airport?) might have had more support.  And maybe some of these things were in the plan, but you know what?  The fact that would be news to me speaks to the poor job the city did of selling the games.

 

Fair enough.  

 

The city brought the cost down and presented an option to the public that made everyone shake their heads in how little product there was.

 

Maybe the city should've gone big or gone home and presented a $7-billion+ plan that included CalgaryNext, creosote cleanup paid for with Fed's contribution, and new roads, etc.

[Cowtownguy]

40 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Ironically, I think the plan may have been too austere.  Given that very few new facilities were going to be built, the price tag seemed quite high.  I get that costs for refurbishment are generally large these days, but it feels like the value to people just wasn't there.  5+ billion for a new arena and facelifts on a bunch of facilities, plus a couple small infrastructure projects just isn't palatable.  7+ billion that includes more new facilities (Calgary Next maybe, new field house, Calgary West development) and more visible infrastructure benefits (LRT line to the airport?) might have had more support.  And maybe some of these things were in the plan, but you know what?  The fact that would be news to me speaks to the poor job the city did of selling the games.

I completely agree with your assessment. At least, that is how I felt about the bid. It had significant risk and little reward. If there would have been some tangible major infrastructure development proposed (i.e. CalgaryNext), it would have been more compelling. In the end, I don't think city council really wanted the Olympics either. 

 

The IOC is in a bit of a pickle given opposition is strong in the cities that still have active bids. I suppose they can always go back to dictators who have hosted the games like Putin or Kim Jong-un. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Fair enough.  

 

The city brought the cost down and presented an option to the public that made everyone shake their heads in how little product there was.

 

Maybe the city should've gone big or gone home and presented a $7-billion+ plan that included CalgaryNext, creosote cleanup paid for with Fed's contribution, and new roads, etc.

 

I think they could have (and should have) included the cleanup anyway.  There's no way the Fed would have rejected the overages due to that.  Hey, we're hosting the Olympics but part of the city has carcinogens polluting the land.  We decided not to do that because we feel it can be ignored for another 30 years.  

 

Missed opportunity to bring Calgary up to snuff.  Perhaps we can build a pipeline with all the savings from not going in on the Olympics.  Maybe the Feds see some advantage in that?

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Missed opportunity to bring Calgary up to snuff.  Perhaps we can build a pipeline with all the savings from not going in on the Olympics.  Maybe the Feds see some advantage in that?

 

Ha.  Maybe the Feds can buy the whole Olympic games bid for $5-billion and not build it.  Just like how they bought a $7-billion pipeline only to not build that.

[MAC331]

Let's get back to having a new Arena built within an area plan.

[The_People1]

Eric Francis states he is not sure if he is anymore a proud Calgarian.  He is certainly not a popular Calgarian at this point.  Look at the down vote to up vote ratio in this video.  

 

 

[sak22]

20 hours ago, cross16 said:

Either way, no point in debating it. It's done and have to respect the democratic process but I think it was a missed opportunity. Have to keep waiting another 30 years for a single field house, continue to see facilities degrade and face ice shortages all over town. 

That and the accessibility issues were the only reasons why I even considered going for it, but I feel the city's approach is to ignore sports and recreation unless it can show it off to the world.  It actually quite bugs me that a 2nd Olympics would make us this great sports town in the eyes of outsiders, when it received very little funding after '88 and most facilities lie in one quadrant of the city.  I would have loved to be a "Yes" but this being bungled by all three levels of government didn't help, but even if BidCo could have provided some sort of worst case scenario and presented that I could have thought deep into it, instead it just came off arrogant that this would go off without any issues and we would be the city to put the IOC in place.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Personally I dont Trust Nenshi after the Way he Handled the Flames Arena situation i really have Zero trust in that man to do anything

He could of Handled that Situation Alot Better and More professional And i feel He Was Just doing what he could to Jack the Flames

[cross16]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Eric Francis states he is not sure if he is anymore a proud Calgarian.  He is certainly not a popular Calgarian at this point.  Look at the down vote to up vote ratio in this video.  

 

 

 

Considered that most people are not proud that Francis "represents" Calgary this is probably fitting. 

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Considered that most people are not proud that Francis "represents" Calgary this is probably fitting. 

Francis watches his dream of covering the Olympics go away. More than likely hurt his pride more than anything.

Then he rants our athletes will now become very average and tries his hand at economics?

Somebody get this guy a writer, sheesh.

The sky is falling.

[cross16]

57 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Francis watches his dream of covering the Olympics go away. More than likely hurt his pride more than anything.

Then he rants our athletes will now become very average and tries his hand at economics?

Somebody get this guy a writer, sheesh.

The sky is falling.

 

2 things I can't stand. Voter shaming and dealing in that type of hyperbole. Disappointing this guy has climb the ranks at Sportsnet and we have to hear more, even more disappointing that the company looks to him to speak on behalf of the city. I'm disappointed too but let's be reasonable. 

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

2 things I can't stand. Voter shaming and dealing in that type of hyperbole. Disappointing this guy has climb the ranks at Sportsnet and we have to hear more, even more disappointing that the company looks to him to speak on behalf of the city. I'm disappointed too but let's be reasonable. 

Agreed. I'm pretty much full on anti-IOC, but that doesn't mean voting yes would have made me rant. The world is taking a hard right since the Arab Spring. The ripples are everywhere.

The left is falling across Canada as it has in the US. It's a little intimidating, but seeing massive deficits on top of massive deficits is even scarier yet from the baby boomers leaving back-breaking debt for their children. We haven't learned a thing.

The current Feds won't be in power when the Olys take place.

One of the saddest parts is our Govt will piss away 10bil on diabolical nonsense regardless.

The very saddest part is young voters have shown what they want, and our politicians have fallen flat on their faces. Every time I hear JT say, "I speak for all Canadians" I feel ill. Nothing worse than a trust fund entitled brat of a "leader" who has no idea what a hard-working Cdn looks like. But he loves to spend our money.

Trust is fully eroded and we fall further.

But now I'm ranting, but not against yes or no. Next time, use business people to argue the case, not politicians living the arrogant dream of entitlement.

 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, The_Snowbear said:

Personally I dont Trust Nenshi after the Way he Handled the Flames Arena situation i really have Zero trust in that man to do anything

He could of Handled that Situation Alot Better and More professional And i feel He Was Just doing what he could to Jack the Flames

 

I feel like the city took the NHL school of negotiations. It was bad on both sides, but I think the city was responding to the way the Flames handled it in the first place. It didn’t look great on both sides, but the Flames kind of acted like entitled brats.

 

i think more could’ve been done had the Flames worked with the city on a plan in the first place. The Flames need the city to be on their side, instead of being enemies.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Personally Nenshi imo Was a Dork To begin with about it all yeah the flames could of done better But the City imo Just didnt handle it the way i expect a City to handle those kinds of negotation's Nenshi Isnt a Sports Fan to Begin with So imo that Shadows his Decision Making in these matter he personally Doesnt Give a Damn if the flames Leave or Hang upside Down at the Saddledome