The Official Calgary Flames "New Arena" thread

[Cowtownguy]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

Sort of related, I hope the new arena will incorporate solar power technology to help bring down long term energy costs.  Some of these new style solar panels are nearly indistinguishable from traditional roof material.

 

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/solarroof

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/powerwall

Now that would be awesome, but make it local. The building would be more palatable if they involved the university or helped out a local alternative energy company or two. They might even be able to get the province online if they went all out alternative energy. The NDP would love to show the country that they are converting short-term fossil fuel dollars into long-term alternative energy dollars and jobs. KK, Burke, and Bettman are not selling it.

 

I woud still like to get an answer to jj's question. What are NHL arena standards? 

[cross16]

22 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 how many Million per year is not being spent here as a result?

Not to mention , all star games, grey cups, another draft..  bigger events .

 

 

Sure, but is missing out on a few millions dollars every year worth the 400-500 million investment in an area? Let alone does that revenue every year even cover that debt servicing cost? Is there even a positive benefit when you look at the big picture, again economically?

 

For me the arena debate is more of a morale one than an economic one. I think the numbers never add up economically in terms of it being a net positive benefit but that doesn't mean there isn't a benefit to the city. I think arenas, concerts, pro sports teams etc improve the quality of life in a city and then its up to each individual to put a value on that, but for me economically its a very weak argument to argue there is a positive economic benefit when you consider how much capital and future capital is required. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

, but if it doesn't include anything to do with the Football stadium they have totally missed the boat 

 

Ken King confirmed yestreday that as of now McMahon is on hold. They know they need to fix it and they will but right now the focus is on an arena. They tried to put together a proposal that had both in Victoria Park but it couldn't fit. 

[The_People1]

9 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Now that would be awesome, but make it local. The building would be more palatable if they involved the university or helped out a local alternative energy company or two. They might even be able to get the province online if they went all out alternative energy. The NDP would love to show the country that they are converting short-term fossil fuel dollars into long-term alternative energy dollars and jobs. KK, Burke, and Bettman are not selling it.

 

I woud still like to get an answer to jj's question. What are NHL arena standards? 

 

Hah.  On second thought, maybe it should burn natural gas to generate electricty for the entire building, without a battery to store excess power.  Help out the local economy by depleting natural gas stockpile in the province.

 

Those two torches for goal celebrations aren't enough.  The entire roof should ignite into Flames by natural gas for 5 whole minutes for every goal the Flames score.

[Cowtownguy]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Hah.  On second thought, maybe it should burn natural gas to generate electricty for the entire building, without a battery to store excess power.  Help out the local economy by depleting natural gas stockpile in the province.

 

Those two torches for goal celebrations aren't enough.  The entire roof should ignite into Flames by natural gas for 5 whole minutes for every goal the Flames score.

Go big, go solar, and git us another pipeline. Heck, put solar panels on the pipeline and say that the sun is pushing oil through it naturally. Make the pipeline out of partially recycled organic products. Get innovator boy (Musk) in Cali to sponsor the new building. He has the most valuable car company in the world despite not selling any cars. Call it the Tesla Energy Centre or something (runs on solar and creosote residue). Install a few solar plug-ins for the two people in the city who own an electric car and make hay with it. 

 

I like the idea of lighting up the roof. Maybe Saskatchewan should get the carbon emissions given it will all blow there anyways.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Go big, go solar, and git us another pipeline. Heck, put solar panels on the pipeline and say that the sun is pushing oil through it naturally. Make the pipeline out of partially recycled organic products. Get innovator boy (Musk) in Cali to sponsor the new building. He has the most valuable car company in the world despite not selling any cars. Call it the Tesla Energy Centre or something (runs on solar and creosote residue). Install a few solar plug-ins for the two people in the city who own an electric car and make hay with it. 

 

I like the idea of lighting up the roof. Maybe Saskatchewan should get the carbon emissions given it will all blow there anyways.

 

Love it.

 

Where do Tesla drivers charge their cars anyways? Especially out of towners? The new arena should market themselves as "plug-in and enjoy a hockey game while you wait for your car to recharge". It will be the biggest and fastest Tesla recharge station in the world.  

 

Get Musk involved definitely.  The roof of the new arena should be a Space-X launch pad.  Somehow the foundation of the entire arena should be hydraulically liftable to reach the edge of the stratosphere so the Space-X craft can launch into space from space.

 

49% ownership of the new arena should IPO on Dow Jones Industrial to fund it's construction where we can get the 4 major banking families who control the entire banking system of the world involved.  In no time, the arena value can get pumped and dumped but the smart money will sell it in a timely fashion to triple their investment and the $1-billion arena ends up paying for itself in no time.

[DirtyDeeds]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

I'm also a little tired of the Garth Brooks example coming up so much as a means to justify a large city investment. Even if you assume the 40 million number is correct, likely it is not, you are holding up a very extreme example. Does anyone really think one of the world's biggest superstars is going to come to a new arena and play 4 or more shows here every year in order to generate that 20 million for the economy? (half of what Edmonton received) When you consider the interest cost on the financing alone for what CalgaryNext, or any new building, is going to be it's likely the City would net out very little money on that, so using an extreme example is just that extreme. Even if Calgary had been able to host the Garth Brooks concerts, were are not talking about a city changing event here. 

 

to be clear though I'm actually for an new arena and i'm for the city, via my tax dollars as I am aware, paying for a portion of that. I just don't think the City should write a blank cheque, needs to be fair 

Well to be fair I did not bring up the Garth Brooks concert as an example of how much revenue he brought to Edmonton. If you read close I was more specific in saying how much Calgary lost from our fans having to go to another city. This is very different. Not having an arena cost Calgary a lot of money. Gas, bars, restaurants, hotels and motels.

 

More important however is how the entertainment industry and others view our city. Our Arena is no longer world class. It might have been at one time but even after our flood reno and after our corporate booth reno the Saddledome just does not cut it anymore. A new arena would be much more than just a home for the Flames. The wifi in the Dome sucks. The bathrooms are inadequate. The concourse is a mob scene during intermissions.... 

 

Garth Brooks toured 60 cities world wide. Calgary was not one of them. We don't have a good enough venue for him to come here. Oh and his tour broke the 5,000,000 tickets sold record that he held. The difference is it took 100 cities last tour to set that record. 

 

I don't blame him for not coming here... Calgary is just not that important to the bigger acts in music... We can't handle the bigger acts because our facilities are not that good...

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

The wifi in the Dome sucks. The bathrooms are inadequate. The concourse is a mob scene during intermissions.... 

 

These are 3 absolutely horrible reasons to spend $1.8B.

 

-Wifi   - I can't even 

 

-Bathrooms - Also true of Edmonton's new monstrosity.  Nothing to do with the dome.  They used the space for things that generate more profit.   And they would in a new arena too.  The dome, At One Time, had ample washrooms.   A decision was made.

 

-Concourse - Would be the same or worse in a new arena.  Not changing.

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

These are 3 absolutely horrible reasons to spend $1.8B.

 

 

won't disagree with reason but to be fair CalgaryNext is basically dead and even King has said as much. The new project they are working on will not cost anywhere near 1.8 Billion as CalgaryNext would have.

 

Not that i'm trying to change your mind just changing the scale of the debate . Should find out shortly how much the Flames are planning to spend/ask from the city in the new proposal. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

won't disagree with reason but to be fair CalgaryNext is basically dead and even King has said as much. The new project they are working on will not cost anywhere near 1.8 Billion as CalgaryNext would have.

 

Not that i'm trying to change your mind just changing the scale of the debate . Should find out shortly how much the Flames are planning to spend/ask from the city in the new proposal. 

 

fair enough

[DirtyDeeds]

23 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

These are 3 absolutely horrible reasons to spend $1.8B.

 

-Wifi   - I can't even 

 

-Bathrooms - Also true of Edmonton's new monstrosity.  Nothing to do with the dome.  They used the space for things that generate more profit.   And they would in a new arena too.  The dome, At One Time, had ample washrooms.   A decision was made.

 

-Concourse - Would be the same or worse in a new arena.  Not changing.

Who said anything about spending 1.8B on an arena?? I didn't

I hope you are not inferring that I did. I mentioned how outdated the Dome was and gave 3 more reasons why it was outdated. That is all.

 

Wifi - Social Media is is the latest thing JJ. It has been for a few years now. If you plan on building any arena without wifi then you are clueless. Reporters use it. Broadcasting is all done through internet. Some satellite but mostly internet.. Dome internet sucks just about everywhere. All your paying customers want it.. well most.

 

Washrooms - Maybe your bladder can last the 30-60 minutes for some lineups JJ but at my age mine can't. I could care less what the Oilers arena has or hasn't for washrooms and facilities. There is no reason why ours have to be ancient almost from the  outhouse age.

 

Calgary Next had all buildings at 860 mill. They have on their website the city agreeing with those costs. Where you getting 1.8 Billion??

 

When you try to exaggerate stuff as what a poster said then take a small bit to make it look like they are making a different point, then you just end up looking silly JJ. Most posters here can read my original post and see I was not talking about spending 1.8b on a new arena... 

 

Most people would understand that my point was we were losing revenue and looked upon by a huge industry as having substandard venues. The Dome for a major act like Garth Brooks is a substandard venue. Please re-read my post and attempt to comprehend my point JJ. You won't look so foolish trying to put words in my mouth.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

 

 

Calgary Next had all buildings at 860 mill. They have on their website the city agreeing with those costs. Where you getting 1.8 Billion??

 

 

The buildings yes, but a report done pegged the total cost at 1.8 billion when they factored in land, utilities, remediation, interest/financing etc.

 

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/flames-calgarynext-proposal-could-cost-1-8-billion-double-original-estimate-says-city-report

[jjgallow]

 

2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

 

Wifi - Social Media is is the latest thing JJ. It has been for a few years now. If you plan on building any arena without wifi then you are clueless. Reporters use it. Broadcasting is all done through internet. Some satellite but mostly internet.. Dome internet sucks just about everywhere. All your paying customers want it.. well most.

 

You had mentioned that I sounded condescending earlier, and I actually felt quite bad about that.    But this Wifi comment, politeness aside, I just couldn't handle.

 

Look.  When I said I "can't even"....I mean that.   We don't need to have a techincal wifi discussion on here.

 

Do all of us a favour, please, and just believe me when I say that the saddledome is fully capable of 100% modern wifi coverage and it would cost  on the lower end of 6 figures or less.

 

It's just not even part of the discussion, it's not appropriate, and to even have it in this thread is techincally embarrassing.   It's not personal, that's just the truth.  It just shocked me.

 

2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Calgary Next had all buildings at 860 mill. They have on their website the city agreeing with those costs. Where you getting 1.8 Billion??

 

It has nothing to do with the buildings.   There is a reason nobody's built there yet.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/flames-calgarynext-proposal-could-cost-1-8-billion-double-original-estimate-says-city-report

[The_People1]

In related news, the Olympics 2026 in Calgary would cost an estimated $4.6-billion.  This does not include the need for an additional 15,000 seat arena which is required for Olympic competition.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/olympic-bid-exorbitant-miserly-balanced-plan-1.4169315

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

In related news, the Olympics 2026 in Calgary would cost an estimated $4.6-billion.  This does not include the need for an additional 15,000 arena which is required for Olympic competition.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/olympic-bid-exorbitant-miserly-balanced-plan-1.4169315

 

What I found most interesting about that is that they are not recommending McMahon as one of the facilities. They are suggesting that the Stampede Grandstands host the opening/closing ceremonies as well as medal ceremonies.

 

So that has me thinking would the Flames ever consider negotiations with the Stampede to turn the Grandstand into a dual football/rodeo facility and just leave McMahon with the university. Probably not looking at much more money to do it versus what it would cost to renovate McMahon and the location is far superior. Could this be another infrastructure project they would do that ties in with the games?

[The_People1]

40 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

What I found most interesting about that is that they are not recommending McMahon as one of the facilities. They are suggesting that the Stampede Grandstands host the opening/closing ceremonies as well as medal ceremonies.

 

So that has me thinking would the Flames ever consider negotiations with the Stampede to turn the Grandstand into a dual football/rodeo facility and just leave McMahon with the university. Probably not looking at much more money to do it versus what it would cost to renovate McMahon and the location is far superior. Could this be another infrastructure project they would do that ties in with the games?

 

Man, you mention the rodeo grandstand and I don't know why but I flashed back to that time I was in Hong Kong's Happy Valley Race course.  If anybody's been there, then you'll know what I'm talking about.  Google it if you have a minute.  It's very special watching horse racing in the evening with high rises in the back drop and taking in a "stadium" built for horse racing.  

 

Ifwe can knock down the stampede grandstand, then we should rebuild it so the stand faces Calgary's downtown skyline.

 

Ya, it's doable.  It's just, the middle of the track is gigantic and can probably fit two and a half football fields.

[phoenix66]

A buddy brought up a point the other day , and I wonder if there is any weight to it

While you can argue all the reasons why the Flames are doing the moves they are doing :

- keep up with Edmonton

- bridge the gap to the kids

- improve upon the progress so far ..

- etc.  and they are all Valid, 

 

There is no denying there seems to be some extra pressure on the accelerator..  wondering if the upper powers that be , didn't tell BT to "speed it up a little", cuz lets face it..nothing gets a city behind a team , willing to possibly get them a new stadium , than a Stanley Cup appearance or an exciting playoff run. Nothing puts water on it faster than a disappointing season .

If they had pitched NEXT in 2004?  it would have been approved in a heartbeat and built by now 

[The_People1]

9 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

A buddy brought up a point the other day , and I wonder if there is any weight to it

While you can argue all the reasons why the Flames are doing the moves they are doing :

- keep up with Edmonton

- bridge the gap to the kids

- improve upon the progress so far ..

- etc.  and they are all Valid, 

 

There is no denying there seems to be some extra pressure on the accelerator..  wondering if the upper powers that be , didn't tell BT to "speed it up a little", cuz lets face it..nothing gets a city behind a team , willing to possibly get them a new stadium , than a Stanley Cup appearance or an exciting playoff run. Nothing puts water on it faster than a disappointing season .

If they had pitched NEXT in 2004?  it would have been approved in a heartbeat and built by now 

 

Yes definitely has weight.  Most people buy for emotional reasons rather than logical reasons.  If the Flames can prove they are on the verge, or go on a Cinderella run to the finals, then public appetite for more Flames is certain.

 

Just like, it's been years since the great flood and now we are taking about putting the new arena right smack in the middle of the flood zone.  

 

We get complacent and grow indifferent.  When the emotions die down, then we tend to forget about the high.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

A buddy brought up a point the other day , and I wonder if there is any weight to it

While you can argue all the reasons why the Flames are doing the moves they are doing :

- keep up with Edmonton

- bridge the gap to the kids

- improve upon the progress so far ..

- etc.  and they are all Valid, 

 

 

I think the MSM is the ones saying we are trying to keep up with EDM.  We were trying to get Hamonic last year, when he was looking to be moved.  That was before EDM was even relevant as a playoff team.  If you are looking to contain McDavid, then replacing Wideman is a good start.  

 

As to getting the people of Calgary to rally behind the NEXT project, that will have to wait for the new mayor.    

[phoenix66]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the MSM is the ones saying we are trying to keep up with EDM.  We were trying to get Hamonic last year, when he was looking to be moved.  That was before EDM was even relevant as a playoff team.  If you are looking to contain McDavid, then replacing Wideman is a good start.  

 

As to getting the people of Calgary to rally behind the NEXT project, that will have to wait for the new mayor.    

right .. but based on earlier posts , Flames are now looking all in to win a cup within 2 years.. thats a big jump from Progressing along ..

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/06/28/the-flames-believe-they-can-contend-right-now/

 the interesting quote in that article was from Joly

 

When speaking with media at the draft about what he knew about the Flames, sixth round pick D’Artagnan Joly recounted what he was told by the club: “They’re looking to win a Cup in the next couple years.”

[Cowtownguy]

14 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the MSM is the ones saying we are trying to keep up with EDM.  We were trying to get Hamonic last year, when he was looking to be moved.  That was before EDM was even relevant as a playoff team.  If you are looking to contain McDavid, then replacing Wideman is a good start.  

 

As to getting the people of Calgary to rally behind the NEXT project, that will have to wait for the new mayor.    

The Flames should be pretty happy. The current mayor is negotiating with them about a new arena. It is a matter of how much and when, some other candidate is open to CalgaryNext. I have not heard from a right-wing candidate screaming about fiscal responsibility and moral hazard. There is no candidate who offers a voice for those completely against tax revenue being used for a new arena.

[98FOREVER]

Maybe if Calgary launches an Olympic bid we can tie a new arena in to the Olympic facilities again like the Saddledome was.  They could just update it to meet the needs of the Flames and the new NHL facilities.

[The_Tribal Chief]

From My understand Calgarynext is Basically Scrapped of the flames put the new arena were they have applied for in Victoria Part then Calgarynext wont happen

[Cowtownguy]

On June 28, 2017 at 7:04 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Yes definitely has weight.  Most people buy for emotional reasons rather than logical reasons.  If the Flames can prove they are on the verge, or go on a Cinderella run to the finals, then public appetite for more Flames is certain.

 

Just like, it's been years since the great flood and now we are taking about putting the new arena right smack in the middle of the flood zone.  

 

We get complacent and grow indifferent.  When the emotions die down, then we tend to forget about the high.

I assumed that the city would build an arena that would be able to endure flooding. I am not sure how this is done, but there must be a way. After reading your post, I am questioning my assumption. Municipalities are notorious for not considering the side-effects of decisions. 

[CheersMan]

16 hours ago, The_Snowbear said:

From My understand Calgarynext is Basically Scrapped of the flames put the new arena were they have applied for in Victoria Part then Calgarynext wont happen

Safe bet we are building one arena, not two.

 

31 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I assumed that the city would build an arena that would be able to endure flooding. I am not sure how this is done, but there must be a way. After reading your post, I am questioning my assumption. Municipalities are notorious for not considering the side-effects of decisions. 

How about building it outside the flood zone, maybe at the location the Flames first proposed in West Village?

[conundrumed]

Let's hear from the people currently building an arena.

This thread tends to read like massive dollar figures just getting flushed down the toilet.

This arena build has been polarizing in the exact opposite direction of the apparent sea of negativity we're drowning in.

 

http://www.districtdetroit.com/news/opportunity-made-real-the-district-detroit-marks-300-million-in-contracts-to-detroit-businesses

 

http://www.districtdetroit.com/videos/red-wings-visit-their-new-home-at-little-caesars-arena/